From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jan 30 23:36:16 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11757 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:36:16 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id XAA03658 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:36:33 -0600 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:36:33 -0600 Message-Id: <200101310536.XAA03658@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2039 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, January 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2039 In this digest: IN> Because no day should go by without a post involving Vapula IN> Marc's world Re: IN> Marc's world IN> What the heck. I know _this_ list works OK. IN> FA: In Nomine Black Hardcover (Limited edition) Re: IN> FA: In Nomine Black Hardcover (Limited edition) Re: IN> FA: In Nomine Black Hardcover (Limited edition) IN> Celestial cloths question Re: IN> Celestial cloths question IN> Pasquale's guardian angel again Re: IN> Celestial cloths question Re: IN> A Victory for Christopher IN> Fwd: Character pair Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair Re: IN> Character pair Re: IN> Celestial cloths question Re: IN> Pasquale's guardian angel again Re: IN> Character pair ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:16:10 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Because no day should go by without a post involving Vapula This is sort of inspired by A Victory for Christopher, it got me thinking again on the human to demon issue. There are two discoveries that Vapula had demanded to see as soon as their made. The first is of course a working Nybbas computer. The second is a little less advertised. It is the successful transformation of a human to a demon without the loss of the human's consciousness (Vapula already has a device that can check for that). Most princes would scoff at the entire thing. Even if it could be done, they would say with that smug and superior Demon Princely manner, it wouldn't be worth it. A machine that just automatically tore up human souls and spat out demons from the raw materials would be much better than one that produced former human demons. Of course the other Princes aren't scientists. They don't understand pure science, not the way that Vapula does. Although he does lean strongly towards the application end he understands that he needs to understand more before he can create the most wondrous Technology. Sure his mass Reconstructors are useful for churning out gremlins and imps from the useless souls around, but they didn't undermine a supposed law of the Symphony. What's the point of technology unless its so blasphemous, vile, degrading and frightening that the other princes won't believe that it can work? The answer of course is none. So when Vapula was called away from his tests on the Malakite dissonance threshold he was expecting something that would ignite his imagination. Or there was going to be a new Force donor for the celestial crossbreeding program. When the findings were shown to him he was grinning widely, and when he saw the result he was giggling and jibbering and clapping his hands with joy. Then in a stroke of utter brilliant insight he turned to the demon, who was eagerly awaiting his reward. "You can repeat the process of course." "Yes." "Well then you need a new challenge. Do it in reverse. I'll send some prisoners in a few hours. I assume you'll manage to get it done at by tomorrow at the latest." Then Vapula left to start working with his top engineers on applying the new break through, much to the relief of his Malakite test subject. Now there is one terribly unhappy demon in the labs, and a whole slew of unlucky demons about to be guinea pigs. - -- Timothy, Angel of Rambling Ofanite of Creation ArchRival of Mathus If you have time to kill, why not kill it at http://ucsub.Colorado.edu/~grothtp/In.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:04:53 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Marc's world Awesome place. I can just imagine Heaven loving Marc for this but SOOOOooooo many Archangels are going to be having trouble adjusting the change. Michael in a board meeting: "God what I wouldn't wish for something I could slay with my ax." Laurence: "Righhhht...so when do we kill things?" Novalis: Looks shiny and bubbly because she's only there to smile and improve morale Jordi: He's still sulking in his room I loved Armageddon truly! Loved the story - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:31:47 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Marc's world - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Phipps" To: Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:04 PM Subject: IN> Marc's world > Awesome place. > > I can just imagine Heaven loving Marc for this but SOOOOooooo many > Archangels are going to be having trouble adjusting the change. > > Michael in a board meeting: "God what I wouldn't wish for something I could > slay with my ax." Actually, given that Michael spent over 99% of his life *before* the Fall -- i.e., before there was any need for Michael to be killing things -- he'd probably adjust a lot better than this. After all, Sup1 indirectly indicates taht Michael does have an aspect that deals with nonviolent competition as well.. it's just that ever since the War started, he's been busy with more important things. So what I see is... Marc -- "At the rate he's going, he's going to be as deadly in the boardroom as he was on the battlefield. I mean, it's still my Word and I'm still keeping ahead by a fair amount... but I expected to be blowing him out here, and he's actually making me sweat pretty hard! *Where* did he learn to negotiate *deals* like that?" Yves -- "You forget his Mercurian attunement, as well as that the Firstborn is brighter than he's ben given credit for. Although I do admit that the image of War as Corporate Raider takes some getting used to." Marc -- "Mrph. I don't care how he sublimates it, he's probably going nuts inside without something to axe-smash." Yves -- "You forget that Armageddon is over and the War is won... and unlike Baal, Michael's Word does encompass the ends of wars as well as their beginnings and middles. I always knew he'd take retirement better than was commonly believed. And you never know what might happen tomorrow..." Marc -- "Oh, *thanks* Yves. I'll sleep *so* much better tonight, knowing that." > Laurence: "Righhhht...so when do we kill things?" *Here*, you're right. Laurence was created a mere two millennia ago as a living weapon with which to slay demonkind, and he's known absolutely nothing else for 100% of his life. Admittedly, he keeps busy as he can what with keeping an eye on the Catholic Church and making sure that his favorite moral institutions don't get so modernized they forget their roots, but for a Malakite that's a pale substitute for a big flaming sword and a pack of Calabim... Nobody's worried. Laurence will end up taking those courses in Business Ethics and finding a new career... eventually. *g* > Novalis: Looks shiny and bubbly because she's only there to smile and > improve morale > > Jordi: He's still sulking in his room Marc -- "Look, the new environmentally-friendly industrial paradigm me, Jean, and Novalis are building is leaving you with more unspoiled land than you'd ever had before! I mean, I've made sure to pump *billions* into the World Wildlife Fund and clean-up projects! Heck, Jean's latest endowment is for the genetic reconstruction of extinct species..." Jordi -- *growl* *snarl* *hisssssssssss* Marc (turns away to speak over his shoulder) -- "Look, guys, I'm trying my best..." - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:06:30 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> What the heck. I know _this_ list works OK. Howdy. Egroups recently merged with Yahoo groups (like last weekend), and I'm still trying to figure out if it's affected those of you subscribed to the Tattered IN net.book project. Hard for me to tell, as I'm already using Yahoo's email service. If you are having problems with access, please let me know via email? Moe ===== In Nomine stuff: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 11/25/00 (this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 2001 05:35:07 -0000 From: "Chris Rose" Subject: IN> FA: In Nomine Black Hardcover (Limited edition) Hi, I'm running a good old fashioned e-mail Auction. What's on offer : The limited edition, Black In Nomine Hardcover rulebook. It's still in the original shrinkwarp from Steve Jackson (God bless him ) ) Games - I know this, because it still has the original Warning label & UPC barcode sticker on the back. It's never been opened, but the shrink wrap has a 1" tear in it. It's in -=that good=- condition. E-mail your bids to ofanite@gospeedgo.com I'll wait a week (Until Monday night, 5th Feb 2001, Melbourne, Australia time.) Probably about 8:00 pm. I'll contact all bidders to let them know who's successful - and I'll probably reply to this article. Just to confuse you all, the auction will be in American Dollars. When the auction closes, the winner and myself can worry about conversion rates, and they can send me a cheque/money order in Australian dollars. The current exchange rate is approx AU$1.00 to US$0.54. Postage will be on the winners head as well. It'll probably const about $20 US to ship via air-mail to the U.S.(but don't quote me on that, because I'm not the post office.). Yes, Aussies do have an advantage here. I know, this sounds complex, but I keep hearing that the Black hardcover is rarer than the White. I have one white and two black. Lucky me. I'm spreading my luck around here. Can't wait to hear from you Chris ________________________________________________________________ Get Email, News, Links and The Best Selection at http://AnimeNation.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:11:21 GMT From: ben@zianet.com Subject: Re: IN> FA: In Nomine Black Hardcover (Limited edition) I'll put in a bid for $30. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:08:40 GMT From: ben@zianet.com Subject: Re: IN> FA: In Nomine Black Hardcover (Limited edition) But I won't bid on the entire mailing list, unless nobody else wants it. > I'll put in a bid for $30. Ben (whups.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:11:19 -0000 From: "Laurent" Subject: IN> Celestial cloths question An angel in a Vessel, holding a sword which is also a Celestial Artifact, will still be holding that sword (or whatever Celestial aspect the artifact has) when he/she goes Celestial, right? If yes, it should be the same for Celestial cloths (ie, cloths that are also Celestial Artifacts). Assuming I'm still right, it's more than likely that lots of Angels are dressed in Heaven. Now would these cloths hide a part of their Celestial form, or would the Celestial form still show through the cloths? Laurent. Ever seen a winged snake wearing a tuxedo? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:17:34 -0600 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial cloths question > > >Laurent. > >Ever seen a winged snake wearing a tuxedo? No, But the mental image of that look as though it would be rather slick. Brad _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:41:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Pasquale's guardian angel again Today's "Rose Is Rose" comic shows an ... interesting use of celestial powers by what could be a particularly gung-ho cherub of Christopher. See http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/roseisrose/index.html Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:51:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Celestial cloths question Laurent wrote: > Ever seen a winged snake wearing a tuxedo? This is why most Archangels include locker rooms near the repositories where they keep their angels' Hearts... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:54:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> A Victory for Christopher Given that Oliverius ultimately wound up as an angel, one could always attribute the transformation from human to demon to a Divine Intervention, in which case all bets are off. (Very convenient it can be, having an omnipotent NPC in the game.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:40:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: Character pair >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:16:46 -0600 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from ["William J. Keith" ] >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:15:13 -0500 >From: "William J. Keith" >Subject: Character pair > >The Watcher's head jerked up. The man at the counter in the leather >jacket, staring at the cashier, with the stringy blonde beside him... >probably. He waited. So far, the cashier was just laughing and bantering >with him. A few seconds later, the Disturbance rippled through the >Symphony again. Sure enough, he was an Impudite, and he'd just stolen the >man's Essence. The Watcher wrapped his hand around a pistol in his pocket, >wondering what was the best course of action to rectify the situation. > >The Impudite and his woman left the store and turned into a small alley. >Perfect. The Watcher got in behind them, pulled out the pistol. "You've >got two choices, Imp. Return the Essence and get out of town, or I blast >you back to Hell." > >The woman turned around and looked at him. She didn't seem angry; mainly >scared. The Impudite stood in front of her. That wasn't like a demon. >"Listen," the Hellspawn said. "I'm not in this town to do anything wrong, >okay? I'm Renegade. I'm not looking to cause trouble." > >"You already caused trouble. That man might have a use for that Essence." > >"... Look. Here's why I want it, okay?" And he explained... > >The Watcher listened. Then he looked at the girl -- he almost decided to >correct himself, then stopped worrying about names -- who was now hiding >her face behind the leather jacket. Probably crying. > >There were about half a dozen ways to commiserate with these two, at least >for him. He holstered the pistol. "Get out of town." > >The Impudite nodded. "Thank you." The pair of them hurried off. > >The Watcher walked back into the store and rectified the situation as best >he could, handing over the equal in stolen Essence from himself back to the >cashier, making a light remark about an extra item he'd forgotten. He >thought about the two of them for quite a while after that. > >------------ > >Normally, when a demon learns how to love someone for the sake of loving >them, they're well on the way towards Redemption. In this case, two >Impudites, with the Vessel names of George and Jamie, realized that they >were really in love. How it happened, they don't talk about very often. >It involved an isolated long-term duty, few humans to leech Essence off of, >and long stretches of talks about the future. When they realized that >they'd truly fallen in love, they went Renegade and started seeking out >angels. > >The Game caught up with them, and Jamie was soul-killed. George finished >off the Gamester squad, and caught up with Jamie's Remnant, convincing her >that she was an amnesiac and he was her husband, both of them homeless and >fugitive from the law. They've been wandering through the cities and >villages of the world ever since. > >They've met more than one angel in their travels, and a couple of demons. >They've successfully passed themselves off to the demons as agents, and >then gotten out of Dodge. To the angels, they simply explain their story. >>From one angel, an angel of Creation, they asked a favor. The angel >thought about it for a bit, then decided he could identify with a couple of >fellows in exile. > >George now has a relic containing the Celestial Song of Solace. Between >his own Essence, Jamie's Essence (which he picks up when she gets it), and >the occasional human (about half a dozen a day, so they need to keep on the >move), he is managing to keep Jamie cognizant of who and what she was. Her >Remnant, at any rate... George doesn't quite, philosophically, know if it's >really her. But it looks like her, it acts like her, and it talks like >her, and it's becoming more and more afraid of those blank periods when the >Song runs out and George doesn't notice for a short while or can't get the >Essence to fuel the relic. > >George would like to Redeem. The life is wearing on him, and he's long >since learned about caring for someone even when it hurts you personally, >so he's probably an extremely viable candidate. But if he became a >Mercurian, he couldn't get the Essence to keep Jamie whole, and from his >point of view it's unlikely that an angelic Tether is going to want to >spare the Essence and effort required to keep a demonic Remnant from >amnesia permanently. > >Besides, once he was on duty they might not be able to see each other for >long stretches. And after all, he loves her. > >William > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:29:35 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair [snip] > >Besides, once he was on duty they might not be able to see each other > >for long stretches. And after all, he loves her. Memory refresh time -- what, exactly, can an Archangel do to help Remnants recover? (If *does* choose to to Redeem, he's got a perfect chance to ask an Archangel for help.) And if he's told that many angels the story, one of them at least has had to have passed it up to their Superior by now... - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:43:55 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair Generally received opinion (I don't know if canon says) is that a remnant is the remains of a destroyed celestial, and that a remnant "restored" by the addition of new celestial forces is a new being, not the original. So it would appear that even a Superior can't do much. However, the existence of this Song casts some doubt on the metaphysics involved. If an Archangel made an angel out of the forces of the demonic remnant of Jamie and kept all the memories, it might look like a win, at least to George. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:50:45 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair At 7:29 PM -0500 1/30/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >[snip] >> >Besides, once he was on duty they might not be able to see each >>other >for long stretches. And after all, he loves her. > >Memory refresh time -- what, exactly, can an Archangel do to help >Remnants recover? (If *does* choose to to Redeem, he's got a >perfect chance to ask an Archangel for help.) Sadly, nothing. The Relic, if it's letting her remember who she was, is pretty special. If an Archangel bound new Forces to her -- and he might be convinced, since she was going to Redeem anyway -- she would be a stranger who remembered much of who she once was. She wouldn't be the woman George fell in love with. Now, *some* Archangels might be willing to kill her, making it look like Demons did it, to drive George into Redemption and passionate service against Hell.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:57:28 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair So, nothing can be done to save Remnants? Pity. A great pity. One of these days, he is going to *have* to let go... However, re: this suggestion... >Now, *some* Archangels might be willing to kill her, making it look >like Demons did it, to drive George into Redemption and passionate >service against Hell.... Trying to lure people into Heaven's service by using lies like this? Not to mention what happens, and how fast your new servitor Falls again, if he ever finds out the dark secret? If any Archangel ever did stuff like this, Alaemon would probably get an Essence rush so hard that'd his eyes would stick out like they were on stalks. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:31:54 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> Character pair That is *so sad* ... One of the things I regularly change in any campaign I have input on is that you can (sometimes, with difficulty) get back a Remnant's memories. I've seen other House Rules/fiction with similar opinions. However, working with this remarkable Artifact, if I were George I would ask Novalis. If anyone would assign George a regular stipend of Essence for this purpose, she would. Either her or Blandine. As for killing off the Remnant in order to goad George into Redemption ... no matter how low an opinion I may have of certain Archangels such as Dominic and Jordi, I do not think *any* Archangel would sink that low. Now, if the demons really *did* kill her, many of them would seize the opportunity to do some emotionally charged recruitment, but that's not the same thing. Asmodeus, however, would kill the Remnant and set things up to frame the angels, thereby returning George to the fold, without even flickering an eyebrow. Any Prince would, of course, but it's classic Asmodeus. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:55:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Celestial cloths question At 10:11 AM +0000 1/30/01, Laurent wrote: >An angel in a Vessel, holding a sword which is also a Celestial Artifact, will >still be holding that sword (or whatever Celestial aspect the artifact has) >when he/she goes Celestial, right? Right. >If yes, it should be the same for Celestial cloths (ie, cloths that are also >Celestial Artifacts). Yup. >Assuming I'm still right, it's more than likely that lots >of Angels are dressed in Heaven. Now would these cloths hide a part of their >Celestial form, or would the Celestial form still show through the cloths? Well, Dominic's cloak hides him, and it's never really been stated to be unusual in _that_ regard, so clothes could, logically, hide a celestial form. (This is, however, dependent on the GM's interpretation.) I generally have "Essence constructs" which are celestial-ONLY creations, for celestial garb, which solves the "If my clothing is not a relic, I am nekkid when I am celestial -- but if it is a relic (and I feel like having clothing, which I may not), then it reveals that I am walking around in one, to the perceptive" problem. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:01:15 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Pasquale's guardian angel again - --- Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Today's "Rose Is Rose" comic shows an ... interesting > use of celestial powers by what could be a particularly > gung-ho cherub of Christopher. ROACLMWO! Well, at least it isn't Dissonant... but oh, the Disturbance! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "You have walked through the halls of power and have somehow managed to remain untouched. I can only assume that you have not been paying attention." -- Londo Molari __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:44:25 -0600 From: "Tafka J." Subject: Re: IN> Character pair At 10:31 PM -0600 01/30/01, Janet Anderson wrote: > As for killing off the Remnant in order to goad George into Redemption ... > no matter how low an opinion I may have of certain Archangels such as > Dominic and Jordi, I do not think *any* Archangel would sink that low. One word: Jean. The manipulative little space aliens will do _whatever_ is for the objective good. Sacrifice one life to save a million, a thousand, a handful, and Jean will order that person's death. We won't even go into Yves either (who I believe is perfectly capable of sinking _that_ low, in the interest of Destiny). Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur # http://www.thrifty.net/~tafkaj/in-nomine/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2039 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.