From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jan 31 16:06:45 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04360 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:06:45 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA03116 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:06:51 -0600 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:06:51 -0600 Message-Id: <200101312206.QAA03116@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2040 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, January 31 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2040 In this digest: IN> In defense of Jean Re: IN> In defense of Jean Re: IN> In defense of Jean Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair Re: IN> Character pair Re: IN> In defense of Jean Re: IN> In defense of Jean IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments IN> Word Wings Re: IN> Word Wings Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> Word Wings Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> Character pair Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> In defense of Jean Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:19:38 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> In defense of Jean Interviewer: Objectivily Jean would you kill 1,000 to save 10,000? Jean: It depends. Interviewer: Oh don't give us that. Jean: Simple if 1,000 raiders had to die to save 10,000 civilians yes, objectively that is good. However if I had to harvest 1000 innocent civilians to come up with a cure no...objectively heaven's moral authority is no good if compromised. Interviewer: I see. Jean: Logic dictates really that God and humanity would likely not be pleased to see an Archangel butchering entire races and all to make life a bit more comfortable for the few. Death is a part of life but REALLY I am a bit more intelligent than my Habbalah fallen breathen. Interviewer: Was that sarcasm? Jean: It was the statement that 99.999% Violence is not the solution and an unpleasant variable. Why I prefer operating my operations personally...so my servitors don't muck it up with their limited brains. Interviewer: I see. Jean: Take time travel, it's too dangerous to let loose. Some people say I'd kill a man to destroy it but frankly theres better ways up to and including recruiting him for the side of Heaven, crosschecking with Yves to remove the info, and the like. Interviewer: Hmmm Jean: If he built time travel so he can go back in time and steal things it's relatively easy to have it thrawted through the same methods, same for having hitler win World War II or Stalin...objectively a scenario where violence might be the only solution available. Interviewer: So logically Good in the form of mercy, compassion, and sympathy is logical? Jean: Duh. It's only when these things cloud the facts. Such as ignoring the fact a killer is a likeable fellow...Hannibal Lector for instance...and allowing him to go free. Logically he should be locked up despite he might do great things. Interviewer: Wait doesn't this mean alot of Elohim have different priorities? Jean: Yes that's why we have many serving different Archangels and that Elohim can have arguements just as spirited as the next. Which is more important logically shooting the serial killing child rapist or rescuing the child from the burning building. Ask a servitor of Judgement, Protection, and Fire and get four different answers I believe. Interview: Wow. Jean: Heartless as it may seem. HUMANS believe in free will and a soul saved isn't worth possibly endangering a million others. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:23:14 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> In defense of Jean >Which is more >important logically shooting the serial killing child rapist or rescuing >the >child from the burning building. Ask a servitor of Judgement, Protection, >and Fire and get four different answers I believe. > You'd kind of hope he could count to 4 without help :) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:26:30 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> In defense of Jean On 31 Jan 2001, 9:23, Jo Hart wrote: > >Which is more > >important logically shooting the serial killing child rapist or rescuing > >the child from the burning building. Ask a servitor of Judgement, > >Protection, and Fire and get four different answers I believe. > You'd kind of hope he could count to 4 without help :) Maybe he's predicting that at least one servitor will give more than one answer. :) Cheers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:29:40 +1000 From: "Shane" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: Character pair On 30 Jan 2001, 14:40, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >From: "William J. Keith" ... > >George now has a relic containing the Celestial Song of Solace. Between > >his own Essence, Jamie's Essence (which he picks up when she gets it), > >and the occasional human (about half a dozen a day, so they need to keep > >on the move), he is managing to keep Jamie cognizant of who and what she > >was. Her Remnant, at any rate... George doesn't quite, philosophically, > >know if it's really her. But it looks like her, it acts like her, and it ... I've only the Core book; what does the Celestial Song of Solace do (for a Remnant or otherwise), and what book is it from? Thanks, Shane. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:22:22 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Character pair - --On Tuesday, January 30, 2001 23:44 -0600 "Tafka J." wrote: > > One word: Jean. > > The manipulative little space aliens will do _whatever_ is for > the objective good. Sacrifice one life to save a million, a > thousand, a handful, and Jean will order that person's death. > What is this behavioral analysys based on? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Never shot through a hostage to get the bad guy in his whole life.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:34:06 -0500 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> In defense of Jean - --On Wednesday, January 31, 2001 22:26 +1000 Shane wrote: > On 31 Jan 2001, 9:23, Jo Hart wrote: >> > Which is more >> > important logically shooting the serial killing child rapist or >> > rescuing the child from the burning building. Ask a servitor of >> > Judgement, Protection, and Fire and get four different answers I >> > believe. > >> You'd kind of hope he could count to 4 without help :) > > Maybe he's predicting that at least one servitor will give more > than one answer. :) > Fire, anyone? Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:29:32 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> In defense of Jean Ask a servitor of Judgement, >>Protection, >>and Fire and get four different answers I believe. >> > >You'd kind of hope he could count to 4 without help :) > Oh, I assumed he meant that the Servitor of Fire would keep changing his mind ... Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:57:12 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments This is a follow-up to my heretical Habbalah choir writeup (despite massive lack of interest in the original). I probably won't bother doing a formal writeup of the third part (prominent post-Reconciliation Habbalah). Here are the Choir attunements for Habbalah who have returned to Heaven. Some of them are very bad (because I couldn't think of anything good). There is no attempt at play balance. Some of them have alternatives given for them. Some of the text may come from the core book with slight alterations. Fnord. Choir Attunements and Superior Opinions Blandine The Archangel of Dreams uses her Habbalah to serve the unfallen word of her former lover Beleth -- Fear. She finds them valuable but unreliable tools, for a dangerous job none of her regular servitors are capable of handling. With a successful Perception roll, a Habbalite of Dreams knows what fear a person most needs to overcome, OR what fear would best motivate them to make a positive change in their lives. If using this attunement in a subject's dreamscape, the Habbalite may inflict the object of this fear on the dreamer with a Will roll. If the dreamer successfully resists, their dreamscape is moved to Blandine's side of the Marches (if it wasn't there already), and the dreamer will gain an extra point of Essence at noon the following day. If the dreamer _fails_...maybe a night on Beleth's side of the Marches or combat with an Ethereal horror will put some starch in their spine. [ This is somewhat similar to the Celestial Song of Dreams. If this attunement is too dark for your campaign, consider substituting "Habbalah of Dreams all know the Celestial Song of Dreams, and always succeed in its performance, at no Essence cost, with a check digit equal to their Ethereal Forces."] David "We've replaced the Archangel of Stone with a Habbalite painted black. Let's see if anyone notices." -- Kobal, Impudite Prince of Dark Humor David was one of the three founding members of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and many of the first Habbalah to return to Heaven serve him. Habbalah of Stone test mortals through great hardship. If a human can make it through the trials set upon it by one of these heartless angels, without cursing God or betraying their loved ones, they gain great strength of will for resisting the forces of Hell. (In game terms, a Habbalite of Stone may grant a human the Blessed attunement, if the human suffers a punishment that the Habbalite inflicts upon him or her without cursing God or betraying his or her loved ones. GMs should use their discretion in deciding if a punishment is sufficient -- PC Habbalah should not be using this attunement to beef up their servants, for example.) Dominique Dominique was one of the Archangels from whom the existence of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's existence was withheld until its findings could be presented as a fait accompli. Dominique has not yet accepted any Habbalah into her service, though she does not rule out the possibility. If Dominique ever attunes any Habbalah to her word, she will be able to grant them the following attunement: a Habbalite of Judgment may inflict the emotion of guilt onto a deserving subject without making a Will roll, and with a check digit equal to the Habbalite's Ethereal Forces (the player may roll for a higher CD, at the risk of getting a lower one). If the guilt-trip is resisted, the Habbalite will take neither Dissonance nor be affected by the emotion. It is dissonant for a Habbalite of Judgment to inflict guilt upon a person with nothing to feel guilty about (this is only a special case of Dominique dissonance condition). Eli According to some of Eli's servitors who have spoken to him, Eli supports the findings of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. However, he was not present to take part on the Commission, and is not known to have attuned any Habbalah to his word. If any as-yet-unknown Habbalah of Creation are wandering around out there somewhere, they can, with a successful Perception roll, recognize anyone who in the last month has done anything to prevent the creation of a work of art or invention, or to harm an artist or inventor. On a check digit of 6, the Habbalite knows what the person did and why. They aren't obligated to punish such miscreants, but given their natures, it's practically inevitable. Gabriel Gabriel was not in a state of lucidity sufficient to participate in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. However, she was re-attuning Habbalah Renegades to her word as soon as the Commission's final report was presented to the Seraphim Council -- some say, before the Council voted to recognize the Habbalah as angels. Gabriel has not crafted an attunement for her Habbalah; instead, she has been known to grant any of her existing Choir attunements to her Habbalah, sometimes swapping it for another attunement each time she meets with one. The Habbalah don't care, as long as they get to punish _someone_. Gabriel's Punishers almost always request her Smite attunement, and none has ever been denied (PC Habbalah of Fire must still pay the full 10 character points if they want Smite). [ Alternate: Gabriel's Habbalah can sense those who cause suffering to others through their own weakness. Look for them in honky-tonks with cheatin' songs on the jukebox, or on street corners frequented by addicts.] Janus Janus was not a founder of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, but he was an early supporter. For some reason, Janus chooses to grant his Habbalah his Elohim attunement. Jean Jean served on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, though his role was mainly as a naysayer. Nevertheless, he has accepted a few Habbalah into his service. Punishers of Lightning are masters of the electrochemical impulses of the brain. With a successful Will roll (which can be resisted) and the expenditure of essence, they can disrupt those impulses in one target. In humans, this causes unconsciousness for a number of minutes equal to the check digit of the Will roll times the amount of essence spent. It can also affect Celestials in organic vessels (i.e., not Kyriotates of Stone, Lightning, or Wind in their special vessels or hosts) -- the affected Celestial is ejected from their vessel to the Marches as if their vessel had been possessed, and cannot return _to that vessel_ for the amount of time above. Jordi The Archangel of Animals has accepted Habbalah into his service without comment. Like Jordi's Elohim, Jordi's Habbalah are attuned to reptiles. However, far from being desert angels, they occupy the depths of swamps. They are charged to protect wetlands from human interference, and to punish those who would drain them for human greed. Do not feed the alligators -- they will bite. Laurence Laurence was the other Archangel kept in the dark about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and unlike Dominic, he refuses to accept its findings as legitimate. He has not accepted any Habbalah into his service -- he still regards them as demons, and furthermore, they don't get along with his "Bright" Lilim. Marc Marc has accepted the findings of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission with no visible qualms. Punishers of Trade are often teamed with Zadkiel's Cleansers (see Moe's "License to Smite"). A Habbalite of Trade will always know if it has been cheated in any business dealing, but not until afterwards. With a successful Will roll, which cannot be resisted, it may inflict CD Mind Hits on the cheat. [ Alternate: with a Perception roll, the Punisher may learn the business ethics (or lack thereof) of a particular target. ] Michael Michael was one of the founding members of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and has eagerly accepted Habbalah into the ranks of his servitors. This has caused a rift between Michael and Laurence, who thinks that Michael is so determined to _win_ that he will stoop to employing demons. The fact that Laurence has been doing this with Lilim, and the fact that Michael is happy to point this out, contribute in no small part to the rift. Michael's Habbalah strike particularly vicious blows in battle -- they add their Corporeal Forces to the Power of any attack in hand-to-hand combat. Novalis Novalis was the third and final founding member of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and has been the only Archangel to remake her Punishers into healers. She has been recruiting heavily from Lust, endangering her uneasy truce with Andrealphus. Habbalah of Flowers add their Ethereal forces to any use of their resonance to prevent a violent conflict, or stop an ongoing one. Yves The Archangel of Destiny was not involved in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Conspicuously uninvolved, in fact, for a Superior who has accepted so many Habbalite servitors into his organization. Rumor has it that each time Yves accepts a Habbalite into his service, he spends many minutes looking it over, as if trying to recognize an old friend he hasn't seen for years. Yves grants his Habbalah mood rings which change color to reflect the emotional state of the nearest person. These angels can apply their resonance to people experiencing strong feelings, closing the circuit on their target's emotions and creating a feedback loop, stunning the victim for a number of rounds equal to the resonance's check digit. Failed attempts have no backlash. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:19:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments *I* thought it was interesting. Didn't someone (you, Jason?) do some postings about "bright" balseraphs, calabim, etc., demons who want to do good but don't want to turn into angels? Seeing their Word attunements would be interesting, too, at least to me. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Word Wings Numinous Corpus Wings is described as creating wings on a vessel "reflecting your celestial heritage," i.e. feathered or leathery. It occurs to me that it could be fine-tuned to reflect your Word as well. Here are some ideas for the Archangels. Anyone want to do the Demon Princes? Blandine - translucent, grey or pastel wings David - gargoyle-like wings of stone Dominic - black wings with a broad white border Eli - any coloration & pattern the wearer wants -- polka-dots, paisley,striped... Gabriel - luminous wings of red, orange, and yellow, with blue accents. Janus - sky blue wings, always in motion Jean - steel airplane wings Jordi - anatomically correct copies of any natural bird wing Laurence - wings of steel feathers Marc - wings of metallic gold Michael - white wings bordered in blood red Novalis - wings with leaves for feathers Yves - paper-feathered wings, covered with fine handwriting Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:45 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Word Wings >Numinous Corpus Wings is described as creating wings on a >vessel "reflecting your celestial heritage," i.e. feathered >or leathery. It occurs to me that it could be fine-tuned to >reflect your Word as well. Here are some ideas for the >Archangels. Anyone want to do the Demon Princes? Happy to. > >Blandine - translucent, grey or pastel wings >David - gargoyle-like wings of stone >Dominic - black wings with a broad white border >Eli - any coloration & pattern the wearer wants -- polka-dots, >paisley,striped... >Gabriel - luminous wings of red, orange, and yellow, with blue accents. >Janus - sky blue wings, always in motion >Jean - steel airplane wings >Jordi - anatomically correct copies of any natural bird wing >Laurence - wings of steel feathers >Marc - wings of metallic gold >Michael - white wings bordered in blood red >Novalis - wings with leaves for feathers >Yves - paper-feathered wings, covered with fine handwriting Andrealphus - Maroon to blood-red skin, with veins visible. Occasionally with patterns suggesting lace. Asmodeus - Black leather, with grey markings suggesting dominoes or dice. Ba'al - Mottled, like camouflage. Green and brown, black and grey, possibly red and brown for infernal manouevers. Beleth -Sshifting rainbows, like those found in a pool of oil. Belial - Torn and curling, like paper set aflame. Ha'agenti - Yellowish-white and slightly sticky to the touch. Kobal - Soft black suede that leaves inky markings on others' hands. Kronos - Feathered wings, with the feathers constantly falling off and being replenished. (Whether they catch fire before hitting the ground is a GM call.) Malphas - Grey, carrying a static-electrical charge. Not enough to damage, but sufficient to keep people from getting too close. Nybbas - Mylar-like. Usually the color of TV static, but capable of showing images. Saminga - Skeletal pinions where wings ought to be. Valefor - Larger and more flexible; easily wrapped around the body, like a cloak. Vapula - Clockwork automated wings, with pistons and gears visible. * * * * * Jason Schneiderman jadasc@ma.ultranet.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:11:41 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:19:50AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Didn't someone (you, Jason?) do some postings about "bright" > balseraphs, calabim, etc., demons who want to do good but don't want > to turn into angels? Seeing their Word attunements would be > interesting, too, at least to me. I remember seeing and enjoying those, but it wasn't me. Someone, possibly the same person, also did dark but unfallen angels and alternate bands for the major choirs to fall into. I can't seem to find them in the archives (search interface has disappeared, or I am misremembering and it never existed). Thanks for the feedback. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:20:37 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> Vassal of Stone. A vassal of stone cannot be harmed by stone or earth. What happens if he jumps into the grand canyon and hits the bottom? What happens if demons roll a boulder over him? What happens if he runs into a brick wall by mistake? What happens if someone hits him with a rock? What happens if he hits himself with a rock? If you drop a boulder on a Vassal of Stone, could you pin him? Would that be considering "harming" him? My answer to all these questions is nothing -- he emerges unscathed, somehow. I'd almost want to consider the angel to be friends with the earth, so he whispers to the boulder and the boulder crumbles in front of him. Of course, a wall to a building wouldn't break, because it's not harming him. Is this the way it should be played? Or should he become a blood smear if he leaps off a skyscraper and hits asphalt? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:24:54 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> Word Wings On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:32:39AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Numinous Corpus Wings is described as creating wings on a > vessel "reflecting your celestial heritage," i.e. feathered > or leathery. It occurs to me that it could be fine-tuned to > reflect your Word as well. Here are some ideas for the > Archangels. Anyone want to do the Demon Princes? Oddly enough, I was having a similar idea, but for Choirs. Since not all Choirs have wings in Cel-form, what sort of wings the Song gives them could be interesting. I'll leave the Princely variations for someone else: here are choir variations. Seraphim: as in Celestial form; possibly three pairs, depending on your interpretation of Seraphic Celestial form. Cherubim: as in Celestial form. Ophanim: wings of fire, or possibly no wings and a trail of fire (superhero-ish). Elohim: no wings, a pale aura. Malakim: as in Celestial form. Kyriotates: lots of little wings, in rows along the back or along the arms. Mercurians: as in Celestial form. Of course, all of these variations make it easier to identify the Choir and Word of a given Celestial -- Numinous Corpus Wings already provides some information to the enemy, and these provide more. If you were using these, you might consider making deceptive variants of the Song available and highly prized. - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:27:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Ben Glickler wrote: > Is this the way it should be played? Or should he become a > blood smear if he leaps off a skyscraper and hits asphalt? I'd say your "nothing" answer is the obvious application of "can't be harmed by stone or earth." He might bounce a few times... I don't think being pinned by a boulder could be construed as "harm," though. When he gets unpinned, of course, he's fine. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:33:19 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. >From: "Ben Glickler" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: IN> Vassal of Stone. >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:20:37 -0700 Note -- all of the following are just my opinions. >A vassal of stone cannot be harmed by stone or earth. > >What happens if he jumps into the grand canyon and hits the bottom? He plows into the ground in a huge puff of dust, digs a crater with his impact (or cracks the rock if he landed on hard rock), and then gets up unscathed. Only with really dusty clothes. >What happens if demons roll a boulder over him? He leaves an impression in the soft ground under him in the shape of his body, then gets back up with mussed clothes and informs the demons that that *was* an attack and it's now officially time to start whooping demon butt. IOW -- really pissed-off *distincted* Stoney who no longer has to worry about "no first strike" dissonance. IOW -- run. *eg* >What happens if he runs into a brick wall by mistake? He bounces off and falls down, with resulting injuries only to his dignity. >What happens if someone hits him with a rock? Somebody's hand stings a bit, in much the same way as would happen if you hit Superman with a crowbar. >What happens if he hits himself with a rock? Nothing. >If you drop a boulder on a Vassal of Stone, could you pin him? I'd say yes. It says he can't be harmed by earth or stone, not that he's able to lift larger weights. >Would that be considering "harming" him? IMO, no. It's restraining him without harming him. (Of course, restraining him so that you can cut his helplessly immobile head off with a chainsaw is something else again, but Vassal of Stone doesn't cover chainsaws.) [snip] >Is this the way it should be played? Or should he become a blood smear if >he leaps off a skyscraper and hits asphalt? One thing Vassals of Stone should keep in mind when trying to skydive onto the freeway... the concrete won't hurt you a bit, but the steel reinforcing rods *will*. Of course, there's still a very effective game balance mechanism to keep Vassals of Stone from abusing it -- disturbance. You don't break, but if you're falling hard enough the rocks will break... and that just told everybody that there's a careless celestial in town. The DM can easily ensure that this is a Bad Thing. I wouldn't have him shattering the boulder with a word, though... it's not that the Earth is alive and loves him, it's just that he's tough, tougher than the stone itself, so tough that when the stone slams into him it's the *stone* that breaks. Which fits David's idea of a Distinction, IMO. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:13:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Character pair At 11:44 PM -0600 1/30/01, Tafka J. wrote: >At 10:31 PM -0600 01/30/01, Janet Anderson wrote: >> As for killing off the Remnant in order to goad George into Redemption ... >> no matter how low an opinion I may have of certain Archangels such as >> Dominic and Jordi, I do not think *any* Archangel would sink that low. > > One word: Jean. > > The manipulative little space aliens will do _whatever_ is for the >objective good. Sacrifice one life to save a million, a thousand, a >handful, and Jean will order that person's death. Provided that there is no downside, of course. (Saving a million but dooming another million, say.) But something that relies on tricking a Servitor-to-be has a strong potential downside. He wouldn't order it done. If he thought it needed doing, he'd do it himself, and no one else would ever know... (More likely he'd offer to "rebuild" a Remnant, in a case like this, and downplay the "new being with patchy memories of its past" aspect. If enough memories can be patched in, the new being will have a high bias to resume the old relationship anyway, right?) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:27:45 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. At 9:20 AM -0700 1/31/01, Ben Glickler wrote: >A vassal of stone cannot be harmed by stone or earth. > >What happens if he jumps into the grand canyon and hits the bottom? He breaks his legs from the abrupt de-acceleration (or otherwise goes squish), or just keeps falling... (IOW, it's not the rocks that hurt him; it's the _stopping_.) >What happens if demons roll a boulder over him? He goes "oof." Then he grins. >What happens if he runs into a brick wall by mistake? He goes "ow" (sudden de-acceleration), then he says, "Sorry" to the wall. >What happens if someone hits him with a rock? He turns around and goes, "Why, _thank_ you." Then he takes the rock away and proceeds to finish the fight. >What happens if he hits himself with a rock? It tickles. >If you drop a boulder on a Vassal of Stone, could you pin him? Would that >be considering "harming" him? Hmmmm.... I would say you might be able to pin him without actually harming him. But any sort of Dodge or Acrobatics roll would probably get him loose. (Knock him out and put him in cement, and that's another story; however, I would probably give him _bonuses_ to invoke David, being surrounded by a manifestation of the Word of Stone!) I would also say that it counts as an attack. >Is this the way it should be played? Or should he become a blood smear if >he leaps off a skyscraper and hits asphalt? I think doing _that_ is basically going beyond the intent of the attunement. He might take _less_ damage, but unless he's just going to go _through_ the rock until he hits water or some other non-mineral substance, the sudden de-acceleration is going to be very bad for his vessel. The brain generally does not like being slammed against the skull, for instance. Having the spine keep going at terminal velocity when the feet are stopped on the ground is also likely to be uncomfortable. (I'm not pronouncing canon there, except that jumping off tall buildings or canyons is beyond the scope of the attunement; SOMETHING bad will happen, whether it be abrupt de-acceleration or entombing (without air) in rock. If you want immunity to falling damage, talk to Janus about it, or Michael and his Sure-Footed attunement.) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:16:18 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments At 11:11 AM -0500 1/31/01, Jason F. McBrayer wrote: >On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:19:50AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >> Didn't someone (you, Jason?) do some postings about "bright" >> balseraphs, calabim, etc., demons who want to do good but don't want >> to turn into angels? Seeing their Word attunements would be >> interesting, too, at least to me. > >I remember seeing and enjoying those, but it wasn't me. Someone, >possibly the same person, also did dark but unfallen angels and >alternate bands for the major choirs to fall into. Several people did various things like this, as I recall. I, personally, did Gray Renegades, as a Pyramid article. (That's the title, too, unless this cold I've got has me totally brainfuzzed.) Some of them might -- or might not -- be on the INC, when it comes up again. (Yeah, I forgot when that will be and don't feel like looking in my back-messages. Sorry.) If the search engine is crufted, then probably the person to tell would be keith@sjgames.com, webmaster. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:15 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Could a Malakite of Stone leap off a cliff and use his choir attunement the instant his feet touch the ground, thus preventing himself from turning into a bloody smear? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:02:52 -0500 From: "Tyto Alba" Subject: Re: IN> In defense of Jean - -- On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:29:32 Janet Anderson wrote: >Ask a servitor of Judgement, >>>Protection, >>>and Fire and get four different answers I believe. >>> >> >>You'd kind of hope he could count to 4 without help :) >> > >Oh, I assumed he meant that the Servitor of Fire would keep changing his >mind ... "Hey, I'm going to toast that serial killer! What's the big deal about a burning building...oh,yeah." tyto a. Habbalite of Dark Humour > > >Janet Anderson >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:56:28 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. At 10:32 AM -0700 1/31/01, Ben Glickler wrote: >Could a Malakite of Stone leap off a cliff and use his choir attunement the >instant his feet touch the ground, thus preventing himself from turning into >a bloody smear? I would require a precision roll at -10 to time the attunement *precisely.* If he blows enough Essence to make it possible and manages to make the roll, I'll let him go stone and be safe. But I wouldn't count on it if I were him. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:27:21 -0800 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments From: "Jason F. McBrayer" I'll guess that Archangel Vapula is a Bal-Habbalite. If not, we know what his Habbalah attunement is, but are you giving him attunements for the other Choirs? --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:43:33 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner-Thornber Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. > He breaks his legs from the abrupt de-acceleration (or otherwise goes > squish), or just keeps falling... (IOW, it's not the rocks that hurt > him; it's the _stopping_.) Man. That Mother Nature is a Harsh Mistress. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emily K. Dresner-Thornber -- http://www.nodonut.com/zenith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:07:26 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. At 10:32 AM -0700 1/31/01, Ben Glickler wrote: >Could a Malakite of Stone leap off a cliff and use his choir attunement the >instant his feet touch the ground, thus preventing himself from turning into >a bloody smear? I'd make him make a Precision roll to do it. O:> - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. "I'm nursing a TROUT! With legs!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:27:52 -0500 From: "Jason F. McBrayer" Subject: Re: IN> heretical Habbalah Choir attunments On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:27:21PM -0800, Kish wrote: > I'll guess that Archangel Vapula is a Bal-Habbalite. If not, we know what > his Habbalah attunement is, but are you giving him attunements for the other > Choirs? Yes, in the time-frame within the Truth and Reconciliation setting that the Choir writeups are for, Vapula has not shown up in Heaven. Hrm...I may do that writeup of significant T&R Habbalah after all... - -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must hide Yhtill | | forever. R.W. Chambers _The King in Yellow_ | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:51:46 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. Snip >Man. That Mother Nature is a Harsh Mistress. Think makes me think.. Has any one made an ethereal 'goddess' of mother nature yet? and if there was one, would some of her folowers be sorcerers in a pagany/druidic kinda way? Is any one up for that task? Who reckons they could do the rather powerful mother nature/gaia ethereal... and would jordi and novalis be secretly sponsoring her and helping her stay safe in the marches... Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:02:58 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vassal of Stone. cassandra benner wrote: > Has any one made an ethereal 'goddess' of mother nature yet? and > if there was one, would some of her folowers be sorcerers in a > pagany/druidic kinda way? I believe the Wiccan triple goddess is mentioned as an Ethereal in a published write-up of an Ethereal Soldier who serves her. Maybe in the Liber Servitorum? Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2040 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.