From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Mar 21 12:18:45 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23409 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:18:45 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA07342 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:22:10 -0600 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:22:10 -0600 Message-Id: <200103211822.MAA07342@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2118 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, March 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2118 In this digest: Re: IN> Jordi IN> The angel of Hunting Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 2: Bun-Bun IN> March 19, 2001 (ML) IN> Superiors soul-killing celestials in vessels Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) Re: IN> Pentecost Re: IN> Pentecost IN> Moe's little ditty - Superiors RE: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas Re: IN> Pentecost RE: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas Re: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas Re: IN> The angel of Hunting IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Re: IN> The angel of Hunting IN> Frowning Superiors (Re: New Song) Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) RE: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:45:57 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Jordi >>Kauai is full of feral chickens > > ...!!? Chickens that got loose from humans and have reverted to a wild state. Whole island's full of them. Anywhere you go, there's little groups of half a dozen chickens running around and pecking at things, often hoping that people will throw them food. They're officially called "Kauai Jungle Fowl", but they're really plain old chickens, except feral. None of the other Hawaiian islands have them because the imported mongoose population would eat their eggs and kill them off. There's no mongeese on Kauai--they intended to import some, but the crate with them fell into the harbor and they all drowned. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:52:31 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The angel of Hunting Mzzzttttz Kyriotate of Jordi Master of the Creature Within The Angel of Hunting Cor-4 Strength-6 Agility-10 Eth-5 Intelligence-8 Pre-12 Cel-4 Will-6 Per-10 Artifacts: Holy Rifle 4/, (6 Blessed Bullets and can fire normal rounds-appears when he needs it) Skills: Knowledge (Animal Lores (many) 4/, Hunting Terrains (many) 3/), Dodge 2/, Lanquages (Many Native American and African tribes 5/, French 3/, German 2/, Russian 2/), Medicine 3/, Move Silently 3/, Ranged Weapon (Bows 4/, Rifle 6, Pistol 2/), Savoir-Fair 2/, Survival 5/, Tracking 6/ Songs: Claws 4/, Fangs 2/, Fruitation (Corporeal 4/), Harmony (Ethereal 6/), Healing (Corporeal 5), Hooves 2/, Shields (Celestial 4/) Attunements: Seraph of Jordi, Cherub of Jordi, Kyriotate of Jordi, Malakim of Jordi, Friend of Beasts, Master of the creature's within, Ritual Sacrafice, Communion Word Forces: 9 Special Attunements: Ritual Sacrafice: As long as he suffers long with a host and he was killed in a fair hunt Mzzzttttz takes no dissonance for leaving a host in worse shape than he left it. Communion: This creates a bond between a hunter and a hunted that is very close to a cherub's in which the two can instictively sense where each other is and indeed gain a sense of each others thoughts during the experience, even feeling each other's pain to a certain extent and emotions. Rites: * Lead a hunter or group of hunters to kill an animal and take it to be eaten. * Kill a hunter who hunts endangered species. (+2 if he's hunted like an animal) And you thought YOU had your Archangel's suck job. Mzzzttttz is an old servant of Jordi's who long ago was there to look after his master's children but was also present there when humanity was little more than animals themselves and aided them in acquiring food for the winter through hunting, though Mzzzttttz did not value human life more than he did animal life he knew that the carcass of a Mammoth could feed and clothe a entire tribe for many days. Mzzzttttz for many years served as tribes' totems as he taught them about killing no more than the local wildlife could support and to learn the lore of animals so they did not overstep their bounds and get eaten. The Fall did not come as a shock to Mzzzttttz because he essentially viewed angels as animals too, occasionally they turn on each other for scarce resources like when God blocked off the Earth for his own reasons. As humanity gradually became more dominant and less concerned with hunting (thanks to Novalis's @@&@*@ agriculture as Mzzzttttz would say) Mzzzttttz requested after many years of devoted service that his Superior petition the Council for a word and Jordi for the first time in recorded history gave a very long interview when Mzzzttttz asked for the word of Hunting. Mzzzttttz argued that humans as omnivores were neglecting their natural heritage as predators and thus getting exceptionally untied from the natural order of things. Certainly they killed things but it was a rare few humans who actually enjoyed the fruits of the meats that they killed. It was hunters in the forrests, plains, and grasslands who truly respected nature as they saw animals up close, not just cooked and served. Jordi was rather peery still about Mzzzttttz as he was really concerned about animal lives and it was difficult to accept the concept that encouraging a word about killing animals would somehow improve his word but Mzzzttttz was a persuasive Kyriotate and Jordi was willing to give Mzzzttttz and the word of hunters a test run. Michael had a few competitors for the word but Mzzzttttz beat them all out and the word was awarded to him somewhere along the lines of the fall of the Roman Empire where Europe was becomming more tribal again though Mzzzttttz rarely spent his time there; enjoying promoting his word elsewhere. So far Mzzzttttz's sucess has been mixed as Jordi while very proud of the inroads Mzzzttttz has made, his servitors frequently blame him for everything in the world wrong much like Michaelites and Gabrielites blame Dominicans. Mzzzttttz encourages humans to preserve their park heritages for animals to be hunted in fishing, deer shooting, setting snares and the like. He's a fanatical opponent of Gun control being in an admittadly biased opinion and believes personally that while guns are dangerous and less preferrable than say spears the weapons are signs that more men will take up hunting (perhaps pick off the dead weight of the herd as well-Mzzzttttz's word doesn't apply just to killing animals). You can often find him leading boy scout troops, groups of city-slickers into deep jungle territory, and family outings to encourage huntings in all forms. Given the people he hangs around with he's also a bit of an odd sort and is personally very proud people can hunt will survive the nuclear war when animals reclaim the Earth, without him humanity would possibly be extinct you know. Just a note Mzzzttttz absolutely HATES humans who kill for sport or money (selling meat and exotic animal parts) and gain nothing from the experience and does his best to make sure that animals (or more "enlightened" humans) take their revenge in something suitably ironic. He's taken a bit of dissonance along the way due to the nature of his work but works it off at tethers for Jordi where he applies his expertise in teaching animals raised in zoos how to re-adapt to the wild and gain the ability to hunt for food again. His purifying his word of diabolical influence (as he calls humans hunting races to extinction) is often constant and he's destroyed the Demon of hunting pandas (a bit too late perhaps), The Demon of Hunting (who served the Game; twice he's soul killed the masters despite being more powerful than him), and the Demon of Endangering Species (something Jordi is still immensely proud of Mzzzttttz for). - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:16:28 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sluggy Part 2: Bun-Bun > > The only terrifying thing about Bun-Bun as an angel, even an Outcast one, > > is the thought of what he could be like if he actually Fell and became > > WORSE... > >Actually, the main reason Bun-Bun hasn't Fallen yet is because if he Fell, >he'd be working for a Superior again. Bun-Bun actively *avoids* Falling... >this explains his (very) rare impulses towards good deeds. Actually, it's canon that a good many fallen angels never bother showing up in Hell and signing on with a Prince. They just skulk about, laying low and generally staying out of the War that's left them burnt out and bitter. - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:36:50 -0800 (PST) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> March 19, 2001 (ML) Well, everyone else is doing superheroes, so I thought that I'd do one, too. I'm behind on the daily calendar ones, anyway - and I haven't forgotten Eric's little comment from a while back. "Servants of Saint Robert", was it*? :) Moe *Geez, show a little justified outrage at what they did to Starship Troopers and you get tagged with a label. :) Minerva** Ethereal Digital Spirit and Superheroine Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 4 Agility: 8 Ethereal Forces: 5 Intelligence:10 Precision: 10 Celestial Forces: 4 Will: 8 Perception: 8 Vessel: Living Quicksilver blob/4, Charisma +1 The nature of this 'vessel' means that Minerva has effective access to Numinous Corpus: Tentacles (level equal to that of the vessel), without need for an activation roll or Essence expenditure. She also has a plus to her Escape and Lockpicking rolls (also equal to the vessel's level) and, well, ooze through cracks. However, this vessel is vulnerable to cold: if the temperature drops below 10 degrees Fahrenheit, all of the above advantages are lost. It also makes passing for a human effectively impossible. Skills: Acrobatics/1, Computer Programming/6, Dodge/1, Electronics/6, Emote/1, Escape/1, Fighting/2, Knowledge (research/3, science fiction/1), Lockpicking/6, Move Silently/1, Tactics/1 Songs: Charm (All/1), Machines (Corporeal/1, Celestial/2), Motion (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/2), Light (Celestial/3), Shields (All/3) Role: "Liquid Shadow" (superheroine/6, Status/4) Attunements: None Relics: Reliquary/3 Once upon a time, there was an ethereal spirit named Minerva. Not the Greek goddess, actually: this Minerva was created by a certain science fiction author who had apparently gotten tired of sentient computers that ran amok. She became a minor archetype of the Good Machine, partially fueled by the beliefs and desires of those humans that wanted very badly to create a real Artificial Intelligence. Then, one day, she found herself being randomly Summoned. Her Summoner was one of Vapula's rare Sorcerer/Mad Scientist types who had this interesting pile of metallic goo to animate, and wanted to skip that tedious process of inventing the positronic brain. Unfortunately, said Sorcerer wasn't prepared to get a spirit that was smarter than he was - or one that an inherent ability to fiddle with electronics. Two nights and an anonymous phone call later, there was the Drug Enforcement Agency, ready to take down a drug lab. The Sorcerer pulled an odd-looking gun, the agents pulled theirs faster, and that pretty much ended it right there. Needless to say, the Sorcerer had things wired so that his death set the lab afire (so there wasn't even any evidence afterwards). The interesting pile of metallic goo was nowhere to be found, certainly. Minerva didn't expect to keep her new vessel (a highly sophisticated example of nanotechnology suspended in a high-tech metal alloy matrix - and now you know as much as you did before. Call it 'living metal' and be done with it). Probably, she wouldn't have, except that a few days later she encountered a crime in progress and thwarted it by pretty much encasing the robber from the waist down. The next thing she knew, there were the reporters - and, as she was in a world where metahumans are part of the background, everyone assumed that she was a new superheroine. Minerva could feel the Essence rush. This was - interesting. Today, Minerva is a member of a local superhero team. Her combat abilities are fairly weak, but she's very, very good at infiltration (both computer hacking and old-fashioned sneaking around). When she does have to enter combat, she simply grapples a lot and hopes for the best. Her favored form is that of an anthropomorphic metal statue, but she can pretty much assume any shape that she wants. Minerva isn't in this for the Essence, actually (although she does like the fact that people really, really believe in her now). She likes humans, enjoys helping them and sort of wishes that she could be human herself. Such a thing is, of course, probably impossible - but you never know. In the meantime, she's making a difference. This is what being an ethereal is supposed to be all about: a mutually beneficial and mutually affectionate relationship with humanity. How Minerva relates to the Host depends on the campaign, of course: if there are any tolerated ethereal superheroes, she's on the list. Even if there aren't, she won't be as harassed as some. In fact, the Host may not even realize that she's an ethereal: there are a lot of odd entities running around in the average superhero campaign, and Heaven can't check out all of them. Minerva keeps her origin story quiet, anyway: hopefully, that Vapulan Sorcerer-Scientist became a lab experiment before he could talk to anyone in Hell, but you never know. **Before anyone asks, Minerva was a particularly sympathetic character from Heinlein's Time Enough For Love. She was a computer that wanted to be human - and managed the trick, oddly enough. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 03/04/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:45:12 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> Superiors soul-killing celestials in vessels At 8:35 PM -0800 3/19/01, Kish wrote: > > > ><> > > > >Does he have a choice? As far as I can tell, there is effectively no way to > >soul-kill a celestial who won't step out of a Vessel, even for a Superior. Celestial Song of Life (LCant, p. 92). 6 Essence. The celestial gets a Will roll. If they fail, they're soul killed. Vessel or no vessel. Requires touch. Restricted - Superiors only. It's good to be a Superior. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "Ninety-nine percent of life is what you make of it, so if your life sucks, you suck." -- Mike Muir ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:32:57 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior Roles) >From: Maurice Lane > > >>No, I think that you're right.> > >>Let's fix that, shall we? > >(What, like the Corporeal Song of Banishing (Secret; > >known by Asmodeus, Beleth, Blandine, Jordi, and > >Laurence)?) > >Heh... not quite the same thing, but close enough that >I would have altered what I produced. Alas, I haven't >memorized the Liber Cant*. > >Moving along, I _do_ agree that this makes Archangels >and Princes starkly dangerous - provided that they use >the Song. > I think the chances are that a secret song like this isn't used to merely kill a victim, after all, any superior can just dump a celestial with 6 points of Bound discord. Except maybe in Laurence's case; I can't think of many other reasons he'd want to force a celestial out of its vessel -- but there's no way he does that often; remember, he can always sense the brightest possibilities that a being has, so he won't be wanting to kill something permanently unless he is really very sure that even God's grace isn't going to intervene to save this one. I suppose it might be an effective way for a demon hunter to just send a demon back to Hell (because any sensible demon will zoom straight back to its heart rather than stick around in celestial form with a combatant angel around the place.) Asmodeus would most likely grab the celestial form and take it home with him; beats me how Beleth and Blandine fit in, given their dissonance conditions (you'd think they would be the last superiors to want to be able to force a celestial into its celestial form on Earth.) Jordi makes more sense, because after all, he pretty much discovered vessels in the first place. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:34:19 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Pentecost >From: "William J. Keith" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Pentecost >Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:24:04 -0500 > >It just *hit* me. All our talk about Gabriel as the bringer of >inspiration, and the flame of the Pentecost isn't an event she can deliver? >Granted, maybe it's a power of God alone. But it just seems so... *right*. > I don't get it. I know what Pentecost is (we call it Shavuot). But what's this flame got to do with it? jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:29:23 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Pentecost - -----Original Message----- From: Jo Hart To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 2:42 AM Subject: Re: IN> Pentecost > > > >>From: "William J. Keith" >>Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >>To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >>Subject: IN> Pentecost >>Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:24:04 -0500 >> >>It just *hit* me. All our talk about Gabriel as the bringer of >>inspiration, and the flame of the Pentecost isn't an event she can deliver? >>Granted, maybe it's a power of God alone. But it just seems so... *right*. >> > > >I don't get it. I know what Pentecost is (we call it Shavuot). But what's >this flame got to do with it? Most Christians tend to picture the Pentecost by having a flame hovering over the Apostles while they spoke out in tongues. That, or a Dove, but doves don't fit Gabriel's profile. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:54:35 -0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: IN> Moe's little ditty - Superiors here are two superiors for you, Andre and gabby If you want something fresh in the ways of the flesh make Andre your beautiful Prince for his skill is well known, since he's never alone and does things that make Dutch pornstars wince But only consider it if you like to be used For all of his partners are badly abused but the pleasure's so much it will leave you confused and drained in your oversized bed Like it or not, you'll find Gabriel's hot and burns with a passion intense though she oft prophesys in the midst of her cries quite often it makes little sense but do keep a fire extinguisher handy since she tends to ignite if she gets a bit randy and i doubt that you'll find the result very dandy if she torches your oversized bed - -FallenSeraph ^v^ ICQ - 110193631 ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon and his angels fought, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:7-8 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:32:55 -0600 From: Matthew Cutter Subject: RE: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas > -----Original Message----- > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:13:19 -0500 > From: Elizabeth McCoy > Subject: Re: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas > > At 3:34 PM -0600 3/20/01, Matthew Cutter wrote: > >OK, suppose you're creating a Free Lilim. Would you > > allow the player to buy off some of the Lilim's starting > > Geas with character points? > > > > No. > > Why not, you ask? Simple. A Free Lilim reports to no one > master, unlike every other kind of celestial. This means > that if you had one who had no Geases upon her, she'd be > absolute heck to GM unless the player was really easy to > motivate. (Basically, doing something like that is a real > munchkin potential, in a kind of skew way.) > > However, I would permit the Geases to be moved around -- > she's maybe used up some of Mom's, but she's gotten > equivalent ones owed to other Princes or her siblings. > (I suggest Princes, since they're more likely to be able to > show up unexpectedly, but you never know what could > happen down a chain of the sisterhood. "Look, I just got some favors > called in > by Jody and Cly, and I can't be in two places at once, so I'm > calling in > a favor from _you_ to go to the airport and meet this guy and show him > around town...") > > > > > > And then there was the first character I ever designed, who > owed nine _years_ > of Geases, in return for not being able to be invoked by > certain icky Words. > (I knew I was going to be doing her in an angel-game, and > therefore wanted > to hedge my bets a _little_. > > Little did I know that she'd get involved in the destruction > of a Vapulan > Tether... When it turns out that she's _not_ protected from one of her > Geases being acquired by Vapulans. Oops.) > > > > However, it's your game, and if you think that would be okay, > then yeah, > 3 points per level of Geas removed. The FotM stats are what a Geas of > that level _buys_, not how much it costs to remove it. > > What, you thought Hell would be _fair?_ > > > - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor - -Matt C. Matthew C. Cutter Support Analyst Epicor Classic Support mcutter@epicor.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:10:19 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Pentecost Jo Hart wrote: > I don't get it. I know what Pentecost is (we call it Shavuot). But > what's this flame got to do with it? The book of Acts records that, on the Pentecost following the Resurrection, the disciples were gathered in an upstairs room somewhere in Jerusalem, having a meeting, when there was a rushing noise and tongues of flame appeared over their heads. They were all seized with great fervor and went out into the streets, preaching about Christ to everyone -- and the streets were crowded with Jews from all over, come to Jerusalem for the festival. The disciples were able to address each person in their native tongue. This is the first recorded instance of the "gift of tongues," and one of the few where it is truely and purely intelligible. Most later instances of this "gift" (even later instances mentioned in the New Testament) are unintelligible babbling, though sometimes there is someone present who is given the reciprocal gift of interpreting what has been said. Ever since this occasion, a flame has been one of the two main symbols for the Holy Spirit, in Christian symbology. (The other symbol is the dove, the appearance of the Holy Spirit at Christ's baptism.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:36:10 -0600 From: Matthew Cutter Subject: RE: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas Sorry about that. Darn fat fingers. > -----Original Message----- > From: Elizabeth McCoy > > GM's call, then. That's what I figured. > No. > > Why not, you ask? Simple. A Free Lilim reports to no one > master, unlike every other kind of celestial. This means > that if you had one who had no Geases upon her, she'd be > absolute heck to GM unless the player was really easy to > motivate. (Basically, doing something like that is a real > munchkin potential, in a kind of skew way.) Here I disagree. Correct my math if I'm wrong; my books are at home. Free Lilim start with 9 Geases/3 to Lilith and without a Heart, any Rites, or dissonance conditions. They don't get character points for their Geases. At 3 pts/Level, those Geases are worth 81 pts. A starting Free Lilim can only buy off 36 pts worth of Geases, leaving 5 Geases/3 to Lilith. But the character still doesn't have any skills, Songs, vessels, Roles, attuments, Rites, or Servants. The Lilim is practically useless as a character, except as a Geases generator in Hell. Instant phaser-bait. I'd let the player buy off some of the Geases, and make certain they understand that they're limiting the character's abilities. > However, I would permit the Geases to be moved around -- > she's maybe used up some of Mom's, but she's gotten > equivalent ones owed to other Princes or her siblings. > (I suggest Princes, since they're more likely to be able to > show up unexpectedly, but you never know what could > happen down a chain of the sisterhood. "Look, I just got > some favors called in by Jody and Cly, and I can't be in > two places at once, so I'm calling in a favor from _you_ to > go to the airport and meet this guy and show him around > town...") > > That's an option I hadn't considered. It gives one a little bit more room to consider awards from other Princes. > However, it's your game, and if you think that would be > okay, then yeah, 3 points per level of Geas removed. The > FotM stats are what a Geas of that level _buys_, not how > much it costs to remove it. After getting home and looking at FotM, I realize those prices are cheaper. My fevered imagination was thinking 10 pts/Level of Geases. Oops. But that ties into how much those Geases to other Princes will get you. > What, you thought Hell would be _fair?_ Not at all! :) I just finished paying off school, my car, and my credit card. Then I turned around and signed a mortgage. More than any time in my life, I appreciate the Lilim point of view. > - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In > Nomine Line Editor Thanks for the input! - -Matt C. Matthew C. Cutter Support Analyst Epicor Classic Support mcutter@epicor.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:37:57 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas From: "Matthew Cutter" > > Free Lilim start with 9 Geases/3 to Lilith and without a Heart, > any Rites, or dissonance conditions. They don't get character > points for their Geases. > > At 3 pts/Level, those Geases are worth 81 pts. And each Force is worth 10 pts each, so a Free is actually 9 pts ahead of the game (since without those Geases, it would have cost 90 pts to have her component Forces to start with.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:29:20 GMT From: daiv@cruzio.com Subject: Re: IN> The angel of Hunting >As humanity gradually became more dominant and less concerned with > hunting (thanks to Novalis's @@&@*@ agriculture as Mzzzttttz would say) I know that the domestication of animals (dogs, to be specific) predates the practice of agriculture by rather a lot. I am not sure if the domestication of animals specifically as a food source (dogs are believed to have been domesticated mostly for hunting, IIRC). Also, as far as that goes, I am not sure how much of that was Novalis; I would suggest Jean may have had a hand in it... Here it the logic chain I am suggesting; the development of agriculture and Grain storage gave mice an easy and accessible food source. This in turn led to a large number of fat, slow, lazy mice. At some point, the cats took note of this. Someone, somewhere, way back when, had a flash of Inspiration... I raise grain. Mice eat my grain. Cats eat mice. Cats...eat...mice... "CATS EAT MICE!!" Or words to the effect. And when it comes right down to it, this is In Nomine; there may have been no divine influence at all. It could well have been an entirely human idea, that the Archangels reacted to, rather than inspiring. Daiv in service to Coffee. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:39:42 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. Just so you all know, I've decided to work on a Pyramid Article for how to add Superheroes to the In Nomine Universe. I originally decided to base it on the "Truth, Justice and the Heavenly Way" post I made earlier, and now I'm expanding it to include the Silver Age and beyond. I figured that by the Silver Age, the barrier between the Marches and the Physical World would weaken enough for Ethereal objects and creatures of all sorts to allow them to return to Earth. This would explain some of the "crazy" stuff that tended to happen in the days of the Silver Age: Heroes having adventures in Atlantis, Shambala or other lost cities, Giant Monsters appearing everywhere, the old Gods appearing again... Of course, not all heroes would be Ethereals or Celestials; there would be humans of 6 Forces and Sorcerors right along side them, as well as Children of the Grigori, the latter convinced they're Mutants. I'm also considering having the Bronze Age, followed with the "Grim and Gritty" age of Superheroes to be Nybbas and his fellows slowly corrupt the public image of the Superhero, to make them more susceptible to Hell's influence. Maybe even spearheading this concept of "Damned Heroes" is a recently recruited Mummy, giving special Songs, a personal Shedite with the vessel of a suit of symbiotic armor and a huge, but finite amount of Essence... I'm only really at a loss with the mechanics of how I should set this up. My original idea was to have Ethereals take on Superheroic identities based on comics being written, but I'm now unsure as to how the comicbook authors and editors would react to this creation. Then there's the idea of how Soldiers and other 6-Force plus humans would fit into this... Any suggestions? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:43:45 -0500 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> The angel of Hunting > And when it comes right down to it, this is In Nomine; there may have been no > divine influence at all. It could well have been an entirely human idea, that > the Archangels reacted to, rather than inspiring. That's one of the things I like to throw out in my IN universe. A lot of things that happen are humans just figuring things out without Celestial or Infernal leanings. This can be a great source of confusion for both sides. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:07:08 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Frowning Superiors (Re: New Song) At 6:46 PM -0800 3/20/01, Maurice Lane wrote: [...] >**Still, it's a pretty silly Song, I admit, and I >probably wouldn't let into one of my campaigns. It's >just that I have this mental picture of some bad-ass >Malakite/Calabite getting very, very quiet in front of >Andre/Novalis as they look at him, and frown... :) It's not Andre's _frown_ that Malakim fear. It's his... _smile_. The one that he smiles just as he's slapped down a nasty Celestial Seals on the area, grabbed the poor blackwing in an Ethereal Motion (dangle, dangle), and is advancing while unbuttoning his shirt. Or her shirt, if the Prince is in an Andrea mood. (Now, your imagination is fully expected to consider a couple of Lust Songs (Enslavement, Ecstasy), the Impudite Charm resonance, and all of Andre's Servitor Attunements (and Band ones), starting with the Balseraph attunement, moving into Dark Desire, swaying past the ones in Superiors 2, and finally halting at the death kiss one. But only if he was bored and doesn't start over again at the beginning.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:56:20 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine and Superheroes: a follow-up. > influence. Maybe even spearheading this concept of "Damned Heroes" is a > recently recruited Mummy, giving special Songs, a personal Shedite with the > vessel of a suit of symbiotic armor and a huge, but finite amount of > Essence... Blasphemy! Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:13:33 -0500 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: The Song of Tire Irons (was Re: New Song (Was: Re: IN> Superior R oles)) Moe wrote: > >Song of "OK, _Now_ I'm Pissed" (Celestial) > >When you're a Superior, you can call something >anything you blessed well like. Why should Superiors have all the fun? - -*-*-*- I was feeling pissed, even though I mostly liked Earth duty. For one thing, it's not Hell -- don't laugh, it's true. For another, the boss is petty, infinitely vindictive, and with more experience hurting people than any million other people combined, so distance between my intact skin and the Home Office is a damn fine thing. But I digress: the only downside to Earth duty is angels, but it's a doozy. And in point of fact, an angel was the very reason I was pissed. Fortunately, I was about to feel a lot better: the angel had somehow gotten the notion that I was tired of my evil ways, and had come to evangelize the glories of kissing God's big white butt. Back in reality, I was actually planning on evangelizing the glories of shooting my enemies in the face with .357 magnums. So, the scene was this: we were in my office, and she was on one side of my desk (made of real mahogany imported from an evil Burmese dictatorship, natch), and I was leaning back in my swivel chair with my legs on the desk and aforementioned .357 magnums pointed at Rainbow Brite. Such situations arise only very rarely, and I was not about to pass up the chance to gloat villainously. Frex: "You've been a bad little girl," "Your beauty gives me great pleasure, but your death will give me more," et cetera et cetera. You know the routine. I was having a blast -- I even had some cool shades on, and a this wonderful black leather poser jacket -- when there was a great big DONG in the structure of the universe and the Whoopi Goldberg of the archangelic scene manifested in my office to lecture me on my evil ways and blast me back to the stone age. Before she could do either, I grinned my shark-grin (the one that I used up three drama coaches developing) and said the magic words. It was WONDERFUL -- her terrible glory went out like I had shot a light bulb, and while she was looking confused, I vaulted over the desk, snagging the tire iron I had left on it, and beat Novalis to death. That's right -- I beat the frigging Archangel of Flowers to death with a tire iron. No, Strawberry Shortcake didn't do anything, because everything was supposed to get better once her archangel showed up. She didn't even resist when I shot her in the face with my .357 magnum. The rest -- descending to Hell, breaking my Heart, and leaving a mash-note for the Game -- was straightforward. Easy as these things ever get, anyway. So I am my own boss now; captain of my destiny, master of my fate, all that crap. Yeah, and sure, I'll teach you how, too. - -*-*-*- THE SONG OF TIRE IRONS (all realms) The Song of Tire Irons has a very simple effect: sing it, spend 1 Essence, and the target temporarily becomes a mundane human for a number of minutes equal to the check digit of the Song. Ordinary angels and demons are affected precisely as the Game's Humanity attunement, but for some reason Superiors become 5-Force humans with no ability to channel Essence. No, there's no known way to resist it. Its creator used it to beat Novalis to death with a tire iron (hence its name) before going Renegade and spreading it as fast as he could through the entire Infernal Underground. Both angels and demons know it now, though it is *extremely* popular among Renegades who want to give the finger to the universe and do what they will on Earth, completely immune from all consequences. It's not that good, but it's about as good as it gets. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:35:45 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Buying off a Free Lilim's Geas At 9:36 AM -0600 3/21/01, Matthew Cutter wrote: >Sorry about that. Darn fat fingers. >> From: Elizabeth McCoy >> >> > >GM's call, then. That's what I figured. Canon is Up To GM. (Though there's really no provision for it.) >> Why not, you ask? Simple. A Free Lilim reports to no one >> master, unlike every other kind of celestial. This means >> that if you had one who had no Geases upon her, she'd be >> absolute heck to GM unless the player was really easy to >> motivate. (Basically, doing something like that is a real >> munchkin potential, in a kind of skew way.) > >Here I disagree. Correct my math if I'm wrong; my books >are at home. > >Free Lilim start with 9 Geases/3 to Lilith and without a Heart, >any Rites, or dissonance conditions. They don't get character >points for their Geases. > >At 3 pts/Level, those Geases are worth 81 pts. A starting >Free Lilim can only buy off 36 pts worth of Geases, leaving >5 Geases/3 to Lilith. Five weeks, yup. > But the character still doesn't have any >skills, Songs, vessels, Roles, attuments, Rites, or Servants. >The Lilim is practically useless as a character, except as a >Geases generator in Hell. Instant phaser-bait. Heh. I dunno -- if I'd been more sensible, I could have chopped off some of those Geases instead of taking umpty zillion Songs... It does sort of depend on how one is envisioning the Lilim. Someone's first Lilim probably _should_ be a youngster, to work at the mindset. An older Lilim should probably have her Geas-levels moved around suitably such that they aren't all Mom's, but are also for other Princes (to pay for vessels, Songs, and basic role-ID stuff, mostly) and sisters (for various favors). >I'd let the player buy off some of the Geases, and make >certain they understand that they're limiting the character's >abilities. I'm just honestly not sure that the limits are worth the loss of GM-hooks. (See, I did a stupid thing; I bought a whole _bunch_ of Songs at level 1, figuring that I'd raise them gradually. I generally only use 3 of them: Corporeal Tongues and Claws (which have durations in hours), and Corporeal Healing (which can, at times, be used with lots of prep). I tried using EthHealing and wasted Essence on that; it's never worked. So essentially (pun not intended), I'm operating with 3 Songs, instead of 6-8 or however many I splurged on... The rest are wasted points. Considering that my Lilim is a Renegade who's hanging around angels, and the angels _aren't_ charging her for every little thing (like demons would), she's not racking up _more_ Geases upon herself... Part of this is the GM's "fault," mind, but it's something to think about. If she'd been a "normal" Free, with only 9 weeks, I could have knocked that off a bit with those wasted Song-points...) Besides, it gives players the wrong idea. O:> There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lilim. >> However, I would permit the Geases to be moved around -- [...] >That's an option I hadn't considered. It gives one a little bit >more room to consider awards from other Princes. In my character's backstory, I'd assumed that she'd already paid for her two vessels (and Songs) with service to Lust and Theft. But one could propose that a Lilim'd managed to get something from a Prince (or Word-bound, for a GM-approved Cool Unusual Attunement!) and _hadn't_ been called into service yet. Maybe the Prince wants a "sleeper agent" for something in the future. Maybe even just for "future reference." (Hey, suppose that Asmodeus offers Roles to Lilim who are reported as potentially traitorous? Cheap, even. And then, much later, that little Geas comes back to haunt her...) >> However, it's your game, and if you think that would be >> okay, then yeah, 3 points per level of Geas removed. The >> FotM stats are what a Geas of that level _buys_, not how >> much it costs to remove it. > >After getting home and looking at FotM, I realize those prices >are cheaper. My fevered imagination was thinking 10 pts/Level >of Geases. Oops. But that ties into how much those Geases >to other Princes will get you. Right. O:> 10 points per level might be interesting, mind. O;> >> What, you thought Hell would be _fair?_ > >Not at all! :) I just finished paying off school, my car, and >my credit card. Then I turned around and signed a mortgage. >More than any time in my life, I appreciate the Lilim point of >view. AMEN! >Thanks for the input! Hope I was helpful! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2118 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.