From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Apr 2 07:51:54 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08075 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:51:54 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id HAA24638 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:57:15 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:57:15 -0500 Message-Id: <200104021257.HAA24638@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2134 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, April 2 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2134 In this digest: Re: IN> Another Novalis and Blandine thought Re: IN> Another Novalis and Blandine thought Re: IN> The Cadre (Part II) IN> Press Release: d20 GURPS Re: IN> Press Release: d20 GURPS Re: IN> Press Release: d20 GURPS Re: IN> Sometimes, you just wish the Angels really could set things right... Re: IN> St. Edward's Oaths (Plus Underwear) IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited Re: IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited Re: IN> Bang. Re: IN> The Terrifying Three Re: IN> No Sweat...? (Re: March 27, 2001 (ML)) Re: IN> David Re: IN> Sometimes, you just wish the Angels really could set things right... Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions Re: IN> March 31, 2001 (PK) Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions Re: IN> David Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions Re: IN> No, no reason. No reason at all Re: IN> David Re: IN> March 31, 2001 (PK) Re: IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited Re: IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 05:31:27 +0100 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Another Novalis and Blandine thought At 17:05 30/03/2001 -0500, William J. Keith wrote: >Then there's David's Attuned, a particular geological formation that was a >special project of his just before the Fall. He kept the Attunement and >has seen no particular reason to abandon it yet. Twenty millenia isn't >bad, but it's not major progress. ;^) Since David is now a Malakite, would he still retain the attunement? Granted he can take on the Stone Cherub attunement, but then that's no different from any other (non-Cherub) superior. Pak ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 03:06:20 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Another Novalis and Blandine thought >At 17:05 30/03/2001 -0500, William J. Keith wrote: >>Then there's David's Attuned, a particular geological formation that was a >>special project of his just before the Fall. He kept the Attunement and >>has seen no particular reason to abandon it yet. Twenty millenia isn't >>bad, but it's not major progress. ;^) > >Since David is now a Malakite, would he still retain the attunement? >Granted he can take on the Stone Cherub attunement, but then that's no >different from any other (non-Cherub) superior. > > >Pak That's true. I was being creative. You see, the question stands as to whether angels who were Cherubim before the Fall, and became Malakim afterwards, like David, retained their Attunements or not. I decided, for purposes of this discussion, that it would be cool if they did. But it's entirely non-canon, unless someone cares to make a ruling, and of such limited use (how many Cherubim-turned-Malakim are even alive today? How many would have an Attuned that could last so long?) that I don't see that as likely either. It's pure fluff; take it as you will. William ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 2001 07:59:48 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> The Cadre (Part II) On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:53:50 -0500 Earl Wajenberg wrote: >-=|horsefly|=- wrote: [snip what i wrote] >I'm sorry, I can't identify her. What's St. Mary's full name? Shelly, author of _Frankenstein_, as someone else has no doubt answered for me by now, but which i feel an obligation to do myself :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 03:49:41 -0500 From: SJG NetRep Subject: IN> Press Release: d20 GURPS FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- March 31, 2001 SJ Games To Produce d20 GURPS Steve Jackson Games is proud to announce that it has acquired a licence from Wizards of the Coast to convert its GURPS role-playing game to the industry-standard d20 system. The award-winning GURPS game has long provided a universal system for multiple genres. Converting to the new d20 standard will better allow Steve Jackson Games to cooperate with other companies and produce products more accessible to the general gaming public. Tentative plans are for GURPS 4th edition to be released in fall 2001 completely in the d20 system, with extensive conversion tables and appendices for using older sourcebooks. Future GURPS supplements and reprints will use the d20 system as well. "We feel that the GURPS system is showing its age, being based upon something I designed in high school," said company founder Steve Jackson. "Instead, the gaming industry has shown a clear preference for the d20 system, which is based on something E. Gary Gygax designed in high school." With respect to backwards operability with existing GURPS products, he claimed "we should be able to fit in d20 versions of the all the existing rules in a brief 1200-page appendix." d20 GURPS is not to be confused with GURPS d20, a supplement released in 1992 where the players take on the role of twenty-sided dice. For more information, contact Fnord Fnordson at (512) 475-9996. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 08:30:47 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Press Release: d20 GURPS > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- March 31, 2001 > > SJ Games To Produce d20 GURPS I thought April Fools' hoaxes were supposed to be subtle? - -- Casca "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 13:29:20 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Press Release: d20 GURPS From: "Eric Bertish" > > I thought April Fools' hoaxes were supposed to be subtle? Not always, though if I'm lucky I'm going to be able to get a friend of mine completely wound up about this year's... *g* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:11 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> Sometimes, you just wish the Angels really could set things right... "Rolland Therrien" > Now, if this was In Nomine's Earth, that Rev. Allen would be on Gabriel > AND Christopher's "Smite List", with Dominic and Zadkiel's crews > handling the foster care of the children. Sure would. A while ago, when several Irish Catholic priests got into the headlines simultaneously for child abuse in children's homes, a character of mine started clamouring in the back of my mind for a chance to take a holiday in Ireland to straighten a few people out. In fact, I think there's an Angel who does that. Not sure if he works for Laurence or Dominic. He works from Heaven, via the Celestial Song of Nimbus, and the Corporeal Song of Projection. He's a Mercurian, so that his subjects realise he's an Angel. He turns up in projected celestial form, using the Nimbus so that they can spot him. He just stands there and looks at them (Emote/6), not saying anything; the Nimbus wears off quite rapidly, so it's rare for anyone else to spot him. After a few episodes of this, they tend to be very, very sorry. > Sometimes, I really wish we lived on In Nomine's Earth... On the whole, I think I'm glad we don't. Humanity is good enough at messing up on its own behalf without demons helping it along. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 2001 22:00:31 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: IN> St. Edward's Oaths (Plus Underwear) >From: Charles Glasgow >>From: "Rolland Therrien" >>> On second thought... Does Novalis even HAVE Underwear? >>[snip] >>I think that, in the interests of good taste, we should all >>just skip this one. oh c'mon, Chuck--y'know she wears (wait for it) bloomers! ;) -=|horsefly|=- Happiness is a laser designator and a friend in the artillery battalion. --Clayton A. Oliver ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:21:24 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited [Question 0: Is there a collection of possible adventure seeds for the "Mundanes become Aware" story on the Web or elsewhere?] I'm recruiting a small group of people to play a game of In Nomine. The specific denomination is G:IN; I'm recruiting to "a modern-earth mundane-but-cinematic campaign," intending to reveal the War and the Symphony to players and characters at the same time. After the initial adventure is played out, the players can have the choice to stick with the original PCs, or switch. [Question 1: Does being coy like this strike anyone as an especially good/bad idea?] Short version: A Bal-Kyriotate has been gathering Soldier material (the PCs), preferably those with brighter Destinies than dark Fates. His goal is to convert them to Hellsworn, or failing that, to kill them before they can achieve their Destiny. He's set himself up as their friend and gathered them, when a group of Stone angels arrive in town and peg the operation. While the demon gets more jittery, the angels of Stone try, step-by-step, to see who's the demon in the group, with (how else?) a series of tests. After finding out the PCs' mettle, the Stone angels try to warn the better ones of the danger they're in, and about the demon, while the demon accelerates his plan to recruit the possibilities and kill the others. The game culminates in a tense night with a very-possible fight, after which any PCs who remained with one side get their chance to become Soldiers or switch characters. [Short version question: how's the basic concept?] Long version: The PCs (most likely 3-5) begin as a group already knowing each other, plus an NPC or two(just in case a friend in distress is needed later). One of them is Xavier, a wealthy guy with the gift of gab. Xavier gets into a bit of trouble - it seems some strange people are after him. He says it's nothing that should worry the PCs, but becomes noticeably less friendly. A series of encounters takes place - all of the PCs, plus Xavier and any close NPCs, are subjected to a crisis of some sort, requiring significant action and a choice between themselves and others. Also, perceptive characters or players may notice that something unusual sparks each of them - -- an iron rod flies into the spokes of a wheel, a flame appears from out of nowhere, or something equally strange but dismissible. Xavier's crisis is solved quickly. Downright mysteriously, in fact - strangers seem to instantly agree with him, to suffer peculiar behavior changes, even memory loss. Xavier becomes noticeably more nervous after these events, and tries to enlist those PCs who have been making the most selfish choices to aid him in undoing his pursuers, who have some conveniently dastardly rationale. He will offer material reward, and hint at something more. The PCs will be given photos, descriptions, and names, and told to dig up what they can, and be ready for trouble -- these men are dangerous. He will suggest being armed. The men will be found to belong to a local union, known for its tough, all-for-one tactics and member support style. On the other hand, should any PC or PCs have made particularly noble choices in their crisis, they will be approached by a stranger in a semi-darkened place. They should recognize him, and a companion or two, as people involved in the tumultuous recent events, but remarkably whole and healthy. He will admit responsibility for the disturbance, but point out that no innocents were actually endangered -- this is completely true. He will claim that the PC and their friends are in danger from Xavier. Depending on the PC's reaction, he will either leave it at that and go, or suggest that the PC(s) look into Xavier's past, especially the local childhood he claims. If particularly impressed, he may offer one glimpse of something bigger: offering support in case things turn violent, and to prove their usefulness in a fight, he pulls out a blade -- seemingly from nowhere, surely a trick of the light -- light it aflame, and then plunge it back whence it came, leaving the PCs with dazzled vision until it clears and their benefactors are gone. Possible states of play at this point: if the PCs investigate Xavier they find that his childhood stories have some serious holes. If they have joined forces with Xavier to stop the interlopers, especially after they admit responsibility for the events, Xavier claims that this is just these people's style, and now they are after him -- he will propose more drastic action. He will also hint that the union isn't quite what it seems -- that it is in fact a sect or cult, with odd activities in the dark of night. Some PCs may have broken with Xavier completely as he becomes more remote and negative, even paranoid; a thorough check may turn up that Xavier has a criminal record under a different name; and these PCs could have any number of opinions about whether the strangers are telling the truth or have some other agenda. The critical night arrives. Xavier heads to a site away from the main setting and invites the PCs to join him, heal wounds, and have all explained. Any PCs which have agreed to help Xavier will be armed and told that his stalkers are expected to arrive tonight -- the actual purpose of the gathering is to bring them out into the open, where they can be accosted and arrested by local police waiting nearby -- but the PCs should be ready for trouble. Those PCs who have broken with Xavier will be asked as contritely as possible to join the group for old times' sake, and any persuasions possible offered. If the PCs refuse, Xavier is calm about it. Those who refuse are approached by the strangers once more, and further information is revealed. Not only is Xavier not who he seemed to be, but in fact your friends are in serious danger tonight. Before we go save them, there's something about the Universe you oughta know.... Those PCs who have thrown their lot in with Xavier are told to arrive first, several hours before the others. There are a few other people there as well. Xavier lays it down for them: not only are these other guys not completely on the up-and-up, not only are they extremely misguided wackos who'll manipulate dangerous events to suit their agenda, but they have friends who do the same. Fortunately, Xavier has friends too, and what he's really planning tonight is a more serious way of dealing with the problem. Help Xavier out tonight, and (insert obvious display of power here) you could get some of this.... After the remainder of the PCs who accepted Xavier's invitation, if any, arrive, Xavier begins stalling explanations. Sure enough, the strangers -- possibly with other PCs in tow! -- arrive. The strangers do *not* strike first, and have instructed the PCs to do the same, hoping to get the other PCs away from Xavier. On the other hand, Xavier has instructed the people with him that the plan of action is to strike first, and strike hard, so that their enemies don't get the chance to respond. If a fight actually starts, things are going to get really bloody really fast. Songs will be liberally employed, just to put the final kicker on the PCs' awareness of Something Supernatural going on. There will be a definite chance for anyone who wants to to skip out on the whole sordid affair. If either side starts suffering a disproportion of losses, they will retreat with the aligned PCs who remained, leaving the others in control of the grounds and regrouping. Those PCs who stuck it out with their side are offered the opportunities to become Soldiers. (Dead ones on Stone's side might even become Saints!) Should the angels win completely, the near-Hellsworn humans are let go. If the demons win completely, no such luck -- any who haven't thrown their lot in with Xavier are kept behind, while the others are taken to swear their oaths elsewhere and then promptly "reassigned" to another setting. The remaining PCs get the old chop-chop if no angels survive and the other PCs agree to leave. If there's no fight, the PCs separate, possibly even amicably, and if they've shown any loyalty will be offered the chance to become Soldiers. [Well, there's the long version. My questions here are: 1.) Do you think there's any way to increase the PCs' knowledge of things unnatural at a better rate? Faster, slower, more evenly? 2.) Too dangerous, hard, long, none of the above? 3.) Too detailed? If there's a major possible plot branch I'm not seeing (probably ;^) ) I'd love to know. 4.) Anything else you'd care to mention, as well. :^) ] William ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 01:34:21 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited >[Well, there's the long version. My questions here are: > >1.) Do you think there's any way to increase the PCs' knowledge of things >unnatural at a better rate? Faster, slower, more evenly? As a mortal game, it seems about right i'd say. >2.) Too dangerous, hard, long, none of the above? Theres only really one fight scene, if the players are aggressive to the angels then let them all but die i say, and then if the demon losses, they still get the chance to learn that they were on the wrong side and get to undo what ever dammage they done (a bit bright i know) >3.) Too detailed? If there's a major possible plot branch I'm not seeing >(probably ;^) ) I'd love to know. What if the charecters -just get the hell out of dodge- or even suggest to the deamon guy to do the same? >4.) Anything else you'd care to mention, as well. :^) ] I'd run a few games with them as mortals 1st so they get to learn the system and setting a little more detailed. >William Cas *we gladly feast on those who would subdue us* _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 18:58:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Bang. - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > The other thought about this, then shook his head in > disbelief. "With all due respect, sir," said the > Impudite of the War, "you are the _strangest_ Djinn > that I have ever met." > > Ummah shrugged again. > > "Legacy of a misspent youth." This alone made the post worth reading. Thanks, Moe. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:06:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Terrifying Three - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > The Terrifying Three Gods and Ancestors, I like these! The entire MO is brilliant (i.e. the kind of thing I wish I'd thought of). Added to my campaign for sure! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:10:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> No Sweat...? (Re: March 27, 2001 (ML)) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > I think that this is probably going to be a difference > of style kind of thing: I just can't see celestials > sweating. It's so... _corporeal_. Yes, but there's the blending in issue that was mentioned previously. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:13:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> David That's an interesting poetic form, Janet. Is it something you came up with or a classic form that I'm just not aware of? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:15:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Sometimes, you just wish the Angels really could set things right... - --- Cameron McCurry wrote: > I think Christopher would have pushed Gabriel out of the > way to get there > first. > Spankings are one thing, but open wounds....I'm thinking > that hanging is too good for Reverend Allen. (sigh) As if we need anything else to give people of faith a bad name... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:24:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions - --- Kelly Pedersen wrote: > 1) Can someone have a binary Destiny/Fate, ie, their > Destiny is to succeed in doing something, and their > Fate to fail? I wouldn't think so. That situation would make it impossible to achieve both Destiny and Fate, and canon gives examples of that happening. > 2) Can someone have a negative Destiny? Like, "Fail to > assassinate the poltical leader who will save > millions". Again, I wouldn't think so. Stopping someone else from doing it, however... > 3) How specific can a Destiny/Fate be? Could a > person's Destiny be "Kill Hitler", or would it have to > be "Kill a tyrant"? This varies from person to person. Some Destinies/Fates are very specific, most are pretty general. > 3a) As a subset of the above, if you can have specific > Destiny/Fates, what happens if you fail to perform > them? Usually reincarnation. > 4) Can a Destiny involve doing something bad? Like the > aforementioned "Kill Hitler". Or does it have to be > expressed in more acceptable terms, like "Stop > Hitler"? If it's a Destiny, what one does to achieve it is never bad. In the example given, the basic assumption is that killing is always evil. The MO of Malakim -- and the Corporeal practice of the death penalty -- do not agree with that logic. In IN canon, at least, killing isn't evil if the subject deserves it. > 5) Can a Destiny/Fate depend on another Destiny/Fate > being fullfilled to be possible? I refer this to a higher authority. Beth? > 6) A reincarnation tangent: are souls always > reincarnated as the same species? Canon doesn't say, at least not that I recall. To be technical, though, the term reincarnation connotes coming back as the same thing you left as. Coming back as something else is transmigration of the soul (which, BTW, is what Hindus and Buddhists actually believe in; reincarnation is a water-down version of the belief designed to appeal to Westerners). If we use the term that way, reincarnated souls would have to come back as the same species. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:28:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> March 31, 2001 (PK) - --- "Rev. Pee Kitty" wrote: > Martyr This is a great idea. The only things I take issue with are a) the cost; I think it's too cheap (maybe 5 CP?) and b) the reaction bonus; I think it should be higher (+2 or +3, maybe). I might also allow a reaction bonus from _demons_ -- after all, this is a Human who died for his or her faith, thereby overcoming the most basic of all selfish impulses -- the instinct for self-preservation. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:44:49 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Walton" To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions > > 5) Can a Destiny/Fate depend on another Destiny/Fate > > being fullfilled to be possible? > > I refer this to a higher authority. Beth? Mine own utterly non-canonical opinion would be that no, it shouldn't work that way. As I best understand the intent of the Destiny/Fate mechanism, it's intended that you either rise to Heaven or descend into Hell based upon your own choices, not because of events outside your control. And while those choices may be *influenced*, they should never be *dictated*. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:51:30 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions From: "Michael Walton" - --- Kelly Pedersen wrote: > 1) Can someone have a binary Destiny/Fate, ie, their > Destiny is to succeed in doing something, and their > Fate to fail? << I wouldn't think so. That situation would make it impossible to achieve both Destiny and Fate, and canon gives examples of that happening.>> It also gives at least one example of a Destiny and Fate which were mutually exclusive--Hitler's. He could have acheived neither, but not both. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 03:30:06 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> David It's Scandinavian (Norse, Icelandic, Danish) alliterative verse. The best known example is *Beowulf.* I was thinking about a sonnet, like everyone's been doing, but somehow David doesn't strike me as a sonnet kind of Archangel. This one fit perfectly. Janet _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 23:54:46 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Some Destiny and Fate Questions >> > 5) Can a Destiny/Fate depend on another Destiny/Fate >> > being fullfilled to be possible? >> >> I refer this to a higher authority. Beth? > >Mine own utterly non-canonical opinion would be that no, it shouldn't work >that way. As I best understand the intent of the Destiny/Fate mechanism, >it's intended that you either rise to Heaven or descend into Hell based upon >your own choices, not because of events outside your control. And while >those choices may be *influenced*, they should never be *dictated*. It's possible Destiny/Fate might be able to shift slightly in response to events outside your control to accomodate them. For example, someone whose Destiny was to overthrow an evil tyrant, but said evil tyrant's career was derailed early courtesy of an overzealous Malakite's bullet and a good person take the government, that person's Destiny might change to "Support the government of " or possibly "Protect from overthrow". I know people have suggested allowing changes in Fate/Destiny as a way to deal with servitors of Destiny/Fate using their attunements to tell mortals their Fate/Destiny; keeps it from being a simple "just do this and make it to Heaven" kind of thing. I definitely agree that IN humans should always make it to the afterlife based on their own choices alone; that's needed for free will to be the important factor it is. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:54:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> No, no reason. No reason at all Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:55:24 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> No, no reason. No reason at all(OT) >*ears perk up, slowly realizing its moe thats asking, >and runs and ducks for cover, because when moe asks, >something is always being thought of* Well, actually, the original question was the result of one hour's sleep. Halfway through the morning, it suddenly came to me that this blipping kitten would make the perfect hero for a children's book. Provided that Ramon Perez (and _only_ Ramon Perez) did the artwork, of course. Anyway, several days' sleep later, the sheer insanity (not to mention surreality) of this idea has finally percolated through my brain.* :) Moe (BTW, I finally updated) *So, now you know what _I_ consider Too Bleeping Weird For Words. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:55:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> David Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 03:59:30 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> David >Shaper of continents, Stone is his Word. _Kewwwwwlllll_. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 03:15:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> March 31, 2001 (PK) On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Michael Walton wrote: > --- "Rev. Pee Kitty" wrote: > > Martyr > > This is a great idea. The only things I take issue with are > a) the cost; I think it's too cheap (maybe 5 CP?) and b) the > reaction bonus; I think it should be higher (+2 or +3, maybe). Well, yeah, if I raised the cost, I'd definitely have to raise the reaction bonus to justify it. But I didn't want it to be overpowering. It's a nod of respect, that's all; not a Master-Level distinction (which is the kind of thing that gives you a +3 bonus normally, really). As it is, it has *no* game effect except for a +1 bonus from a very limited group of people (unless your game is set in Heaven, but In Nomine is very much priced towards Earth-based games anyway). It's not even as useful as Sex Appeal, really, so +1. It's character flavor more than anything. > I might also allow a reaction bonus from _demons_ -- after all, > this is a Human who died for his or her faith, thereby > overcoming the most basic of all selfish impulses -- the > instinct for self-preservation. Maybe, but most demons are still not gonna be especially scared of a Human. Besides, they probably won't know about this Distinction anyways; when are they ever gonna see the Saint in celestial form to verify it? - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! STEP 21. Frost the nuts. Big bag of nut in grocery store, why are they there? There for buying, and then to frost. Much like cake frosting, nut frosting sweet and smooth. Spread much like butter, but without grease and bubble. Allow nut to dry, then place on very best noodle tray. While allow for nuts to dry, think about new form of punishment. No frost for nut go bad, so take away and replace. ("How To Become A Famous Rock Star", LMNOP) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 06:31:54 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited >From: "William J. Keith" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited >Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:21:24 -0400 > >[Question 0: Is there a collection of possible adventure seeds for the >"Mundanes become Aware" story on the Web or elsewhere?] Nope. I suspect the reason not is that most groups play celestials. Personally, I love the idea of GMing a 'mundanes become aware' sort of game, but in practice, you really need to have players who like playing mortals, and that's not the main lure of IN to most people. It's not like Vampire where they can become vampires later. > >I'm recruiting a small group of people to play a game of In Nomine. The >specific denomination is G:IN; I'm recruiting to "a modern-earth >mundane-but-cinematic campaign," intending to reveal the War and the >Symphony to players and characters at the same time. After the initial >adventure is played out, the players can have the choice to stick with the >original PCs, or switch. > >[Question 1: Does being coy like this strike anyone as an especially >good/bad idea?] You know your own players best. Do they like playing mundane mortals/ investigator types? If they've previously been enjoying playing characters who are more unusual/heroic (ie. superheroes, vampires, fantasy heroes, etc) then you'll mainly have to be careful that they don't get bored before you get into the 'real' mystical side of the setting. (I also know that it was much easier to tempt my lot into a game with the promise of "you get to play angels or demons!" than it would have been to say "You're normal humans. It's an odd occult investigation.") > >Short version: A Bal-Kyriotate has been gathering Soldier material (the >PCs) Why Kyriotate? Might be worth thinking about whether a Bal-Elohite would work better? (Bear in mind, you want them to investigate Xavier and find out about his lack of background -- if the demon is just possessing random bodies, then the players won't find that at all. Although they may find that his personality has wildly changed recently.) > >[Short version question: how's the basic concept?] > Sounds fine to me. >[Well, there's the long version. My questions here are: > >1.) Do you think there's any way to increase the PCs' knowledge of things >unnatural at a better rate? Faster, slower, more evenly? You have to be PC driven on these sorts of things. If they put a lot of effort into investigating either Xavier or the people up against him, then let them find out more things more quickly. There's no real best rate -- depends if the players are happy or not. If you get the sense that things are moving too slowly, then you could have Xavier either try to use PCs against his opponents (maybe to infiltrate their tether, or to help capture a Mercurian -- because they can't harm humans.) Don't be afraid to kill NPCs in odd ways. For example, if an angel kills a suspected hellsworn, it's easy for him to use a Song (or his celestial form) to escape from a locked room afterwards. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 05:49:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Beginner's Campaign -- Opinions Solicited - --- "William J. Keith" wrote: > [Question 0: Is there a collection of possible adventure seeds > for the > "Mundanes become Aware" story on the Web or elsewhere?] Not to my knowledge. > I'm recruiting a small group of people to play a game of In > Nomine. The > specific denomination is G:IN; I'm recruiting to "a > modern-earth > mundane-but-cinematic campaign," intending to reveal the War > and the > Symphony to players and characters at the same time. After > the initial > adventure is played out, the players can have the choice to > stick with the original PCs, or switch. Seems like a sound introductory adventure to me, especially if you want to keep the campaign low-powered. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2134 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.