From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Apr 12 23:46:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11684 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:46:13 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id XAA04511 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:51:51 -0500 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:51:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200104130451.XAA04511@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2153 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2153 In this digest: Re: IN> Artifact: Calling Card Re: IN> Asmodeus's love (just kidding...) [Back up a second, there.] IN> Blackwings? No Blackwings Here. (Part II) IN> Hindu gods IN> Query Re: IN> Malakite Bladine IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. IN> Re: Aztec gods Re: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. Re: IN> Cherub David? Re: IN> Re: Aztec gods Re: IN> Malakite Bladine Re: IN> Cherub David? Re: IN> Re: Aztec Gods Re: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. Re: IN> Cherub David? Re: IN> It's alive... Re: IN> Unicorns. Re: IN> Janus and Valefor (was Uriel (was Blandine)) IN> old superiors Re: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. Re: IN> Query Re: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. Re: IN> Cherub David? Re: IN> Janus and Valefor (was Uriel (was Blandine)) Re: IN> old superiors IN> April 9, 2001 (ML) Re: IN> April 9, 2001 (ML) IN> April 6, 2001 (PK) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:35:06 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Artifact: Calling Card > Insta-Invocation, eh? It works as a plot device, but I > sure wouldn't want PC's to have that capability all the time. Worked pretty well for the game though. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Asmodeus's love (just kidding...) [Back up a second, there.] > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 00:36:40 -0400 > From: "Charles Phipps" > Subject: IN> Asmodeus's love (just > kidding...superiors and their origins) > > Oh Lilith how I love you.... > > Sorry but they make such a perfect couple. > Yipe. They'd be the Nightmare Power Couple From Hell: between his records, spy network and blackmail material, and her Geas-web, Favor Bank and blackmail material, they'd be insanely powerf... Hmmm. Love, no. But a political _marriage_ ... oh, that's just surreal, in a Platonic Ideal of Machiavelliansim sort of way. The reverbations of it would course back and forth across Hell. Of course, you'd need to work out how getting married doesn't actually go against Freedom as Lilith defines it, but I'm sure that it shouldn't prove too difficult. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:37:56 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Blackwings? No Blackwings Here. (Part II) hehehe good one. Novalis Demon Princess of Thorns> Hi baal. Whatcha doing? Baal: Trying to nuke New York. Novalis: Did that do it? Baal: NOOOO! You just nuked my entire army! Novalis: Oh well armageddon's off for a few weeks. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:42:10 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Hindu gods I think the reason the Loas are relatively accepted by Heaven is the fact that despite all it's a very small religeon and they are willing to work with Heaven quite a bit and provide sorcery support with little of it under Hapitas's control. The Roman Catholicism just made it palatable to laurence. Hinduism however....UGH! Allow me to illustrate. Michael: Laurence, take a valium. The Hindu gods are alright Laurence: UGH! It's not that I don't dislike them...yes I do...it's ARGH! They're just similiar enough to make sure the essence NEVER gets to heaven! Laurence: Ow. Michael: Well Brahma's pretty powerful....no demon prince dares challenge him Laurence: Errgh do you know how many WORSHIPERS THEY HAVE!? They're dream domiciles... Michael: Are pratically empty actually, reincarnation and all. We'll evenually get em. Err laurence could you wipe the blood of my ax you left? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:45:47 -0400 From: Trevor Spinelli-Moore Subject: IN> Query I'm running a little campaign, and I was wondering if anyone else had thought about this. I know that Raphael sacrafcied herself to destroy Legion, but what if there were portions of her Forces still in the world? Perhaps the Forces formed Remenants that are 5 or 6 Forces humans that wander around. Kind of the mystical hermit who imparts wisdom? I'm just curious if anyone else has run with this, I'm having fun with it, and my players are searching for a way to recombine these things. One of the players is on the list, or I'd go into more detail. Regardless, just something to talk about. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:08:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakite Bladine At 7:44 AM -0500 4/12/01, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >Quoting Elizabeth McCoy >> [Why guy-guy pairings have had a raw deal in the Media] >> >> >> > >> Ofanite on a leash*> [Nybbas & Vapula "unresolved feelings"] >> What, you weren't inflicted with the play "Oedipus Rex"? > >Well, there is that. But that was a son for his mother. I can't think of any >work of literature which had a son lusting after his father, which is why a >Nybbas bearing a secret yearning for Vapula just doesn't resonate (pardon the >pun) with me. Maybe Nybbas changed genders after her/his elevation to Princedom, in the hopes of excising this dangerous attraction... O;> (Okay, so that's an Electra complex; details, details. It's still the Parent-as-intimate-partner image...) >rather than Mother and Son. Maybe if Vapulina appeared more often I would be >able to get a different impression. Hey, -a is often a female ending. You _sure_ Vapula isn't the feminine of Vapulus? O:> >Now an Electra Complex, that might help things seem more natural (or at least >naturally unnatural). That's definitely archetypical enough. >Now, if I were speculating on which Superiors Nybbas would be interested in, >I'd have to say Lilith (but then, half the Princes in Hell seem to want >Lilith). Well, of course. She was created by God, after all, and probably created to be utterly perfect so that the Eden experiment wouldn't go haywire because the two humans weren't attractive to each other... O:> So of course she taps deeply into the desire memes for anything; and for demons, really, isn't she the closest they can get to the Divine on a regular basis? (Now, go into the psychology of being able to (for a price) "dominate" something symbolic of The Almighty Enemy? While we're at it, assuming Lilith has her own issues with God, we can throw some interesting self-hate psychosexuality into it (no _wonder_ she hangs out with Andrealphus!)... Mmmm, maybe this is the root source of the apocraphal Lilim-like-Malakim meme: an innate urge towards self-destruction? Does your brain hurt yet?) [Nybbas-Eli thoughts snipped; it's amusing, but do you think I'm going to give any HINTS? O:> ] emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:49:56 -0500 From: "Bradley Paranial" Subject: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. From my reading of the Corporeal Song of Shields. It was that it can with stand ANY type of Corporeal Damage. Therefore, if say a six force Soldier were to find himself at Ground Zero of a nuclear blast and he preformed the song, he'd live, even if he knew it at only Level 1. Second what would happen if dropped a Nuke on a Superior. Don't ask why I ask. I don't know almost as bad as Moe. And the first to say he regenerates in 1d3 minutes only this time he is Radioactive is DEAD. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:55:14 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Aztec gods > I dunno, Jon. The Aztec ethereal gods were using > humans for _lunch_*. Of course, dead is dead - but > their human worshippers were also going out and having > perpetual wars to ensure a good supply of sacrifices. > That sort of thing can't be good for a culture's > development. Well, human sacrifice was around a _long_ time before the Aztecs, and was once perpetrated on a much wider scale (that is to say, by many cultures in many different parts of the world) than it was in the time of the Aztecs and their predescessors. Killing humans and draining all their essence as they die is likely a really, really old Ethereal trick and I don't see why the Aztec's practices would be exponentially more distasteful to Uriel, unless they were just the straw that broke the Malakite's back. Besides, not _all_ of the Aztec gods demanded human sacrifice. Quetzalcoatl, for one, actively opposed it in his worship. It was only really Huitzi and Tlaloc who were the big blood-guzzlers. However, during the Aztec's reign, those two just happened to become the most important gods due to their connections with the sun and rain (two of the most important powers in any traditional animistic culture). Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:58:16 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. > Therefore, if say a six force Soldier were to find himself at Ground Zero of > a nuclear blast and he preformed the song, he'd live, even if he knew it at > only Level 1. He lives. It's a miracle. If the blast is OUTSIDE his song, he'll probably die from the radiation after the song ends. > Second what would happen if dropped a Nuke on a Superior. That particular incarnation of the Superior, assuming it wasn't swift enough to defend itself via songs or teleportation, would be incinerated. It's unlikely to really hurt the Superior since they almost always are incarnated in several places at once. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:48:26 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Cherub David? Benjamin Acosta wrote: > > All this talk of Archangels turning Malakite has got me thinking. > What if we asked the reverse of this? So I pose this question to > the list: > > What would David be like if he never went Malakite? He used to be a cherub, so I'd say his personality and agenda would be identical. "Yes, you are your brother's keeper," is a message that appeals to both Cherub and Malakite, I think. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:43:49 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztec gods - -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Walton To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, April 12, 2001 3:02 PM Subject: IN> Re: Aztec gods > > > > I dunno, Jon. The Aztec ethereal gods were using > > humans for _lunch_*. Of course, dead is dead - but > > their human worshippers were also going out and having > > perpetual wars to ensure a good supply of sacrifices. > > That sort of thing can't be good for a culture's > > development. > > Well, human sacrifice was around a _long_ time before the Aztecs, and was > once perpetrated on a much wider scale (that is to say, by many cultures in > many different parts of the world) than it was in the time of the Aztecs > and their predescessors. Killing humans and draining all their essence as > they die is likely a really, really old Ethereal trick and I don't see why > the Aztec's practices would be exponentially more distasteful to Uriel, > unless they were just the straw that broke the Malakite's back. By the time the Purity Crusade was started, most religions had abandonned the practice of Human Sacrifice. Maybe Uriel was annoyed by the fact the Aztec Gods persisted in continuing this practice when less destructive ways of collecting Essence existed. > Besides, not _all_ of the Aztec gods demanded human sacrifice. > Quetzalcoatl, for one, actively opposed it in his worship. It was only > really Huitzi and Tlaloc who were the big blood-guzzlers. However, during > the Aztec's reign, those two just happened to become the most important > gods due to their connections with the sun and rain (two of the most > important powers in any traditional animistic culture). Seeing as how Quetzalcoatl (aka Kukulcan) was portrayed as a feathered snake, I've had doubts about the fact that he'd be an Ethereal in In Nomine. I picture him as a Seraphim of Dreams formely operating in South America, trying to teach the local ethereals to turn away from Human Sacrifice, until he got chased off and killed by Huit and Tlaloc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:03:26 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Malakite Bladine >What's to say that our current >views on incest aren't a direct result of his interference, and that his >interference isn't a direct result of his failed attempts with Vapula? Um, three thousand years of civilization? I freely admit that I'm not a sociologist/anthropologist, but as far as I know there's an incest taboo in every human culture. You have to go way way back to the ancient Egyptians for brother-sister marriage, and that was done with the handwave of keeping the bloodline of the Pharoahs pure. I'm not sure if it was acceptable outside the ruling class... Either way, though, incest-as-cultural-taboo predates Nybbas quite thoroughly. - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:10:57 -0700 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Cherub David? Novalis was an old friend of David according to Superiors 1. When he became a malakite, she considered it a betrayal of everything that he once was. >From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: "'in_nomine-l@lists.io.com'" >Subject: Re: IN> Cherub David? >Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:48:26 -0400 > > >He used to be a cherub, so I'd say his personality and agenda >would be identical. "Yes, you are your brother's keeper," is a >message that appeals to both Cherub and Malakite, I think. :) > >-- >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@cswcasa.com > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:20:14 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztec Gods Michael Walton wrote: > > Maurice Lane wrote: > > I dunno, Jon. The Aztec ethereal gods were using > > humans for _lunch_*. Of course, dead is dead - but > > their human worshippers were also going out and having > > perpetual wars to ensure a good supply of sacrifices. > > That sort of thing can't be good for a culture's > > development. > > Which leaves us with the dilemma of why Uriel didn't work harder > going after the Loa. Their worshippers had just as many intertribal > wars, and the losers got sold into slavery. Blood sacrifices > (_usually_ animal) are still part of the Syncretic religions to this > day. And yet, Heaven has an "understanding" with the Loa while the > Aztec pantheon is personae non grata. Did they even exist in 745 AD? I mean, Afro-Caribbean beliefs are a rather eclectic mix of Yoruba and Dahomey practices plus a bunch of new theology thrown into the mix. While the two religions are related IMO they are different enough that the Haitian hybrid would rate as different enough to spawn a new set of ethereals. (I think -- I don't know very much about African history so I could be off here.) (I know, I know -- the Aztec gods didn't exist in 745 either, and Uriel supposedly killed them anyway. But that's a bug, not a feature, dammit!) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:02:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. At 1:49 PM -0500 4/12/01, Bradley Paranial wrote: >>From my reading of the Corporeal Song of Shields. It was that it can with >stand ANY type of Corporeal Damage. > >Therefore, if say a six force Soldier were to find himself at Ground Zero of >a nuclear blast and he preformed the song, he'd live, even if he knew it at >only Level 1. Right. See the CPG for an alternate version... (The nuke is _inside_ the shields.) >Second what would happen if dropped a Nuke on a Superior. If he didn't get his Shields up in time, that vessel would be toast; presuming that he was instantiated somewhere else at the same time (a likely presumption), he will then be out a vessel and very annoyed. Belial got a bit of a suntan watching one of the nukes go off, I believe... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:28:45 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Cherub David? >All this talk of Archangels turning Malakite has got me thinking. What if we >asked the reverse of this? So I pose this question to the list: > >What would David be like if he never went Malakite? I figure he'd probably be more aligned with the peace faction and Novalis as a Cherub, for one thing. He'd probably lack the "testing to destruction" bit he's been noted for if he didn't have a Malakite's viewpoint on life (where Stone's endurance gains a more martial "endurance of pain" aspect to it); minus that and still having the anti-strike first policy, and Stone becomes fairly pacifistic (might even represent the ultimate pacifist; endure torment without violence but strong determination to overcome in the end). If Stone's more martial temperment was a result of his Malakite alteration, that might explain why Novalis dislikes him so; as a Cherub, he most likely would be someone she would like, and a change to something so anti everything she stands for would be fairly dismaying. As for the other Malakite superior, Laurence, I honestly think he couldn't be anything else but a Malakite (one reason his Fall in a Novalis-victory sounded so *right* to me). He's too tied into honor not to be one of the honor-bound choir. Maybe a Seraphim might work, but then he seems to be more like a weak version of Michael. - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:56:09 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> It's alive... >--- Maurice Lane wrote: >> I could see it argued either way, actually. On the >> one hand, Jean doesn't have a very good opinion of the >> average human's reasoning abilities (a point that we'd >> have to concede, I'm afraid: the average human _isn't_ >> as smart as the average angel). His work would go >> :much: more smoothly if mortals got brighter or more >> self-controlled. > > But minor early success might make further success harder >later on. Check out this month's Discover; there's an >article in it (in the "R&D" section) about a theory that >Humans have lost genetic flexibility as we increased in >both intelligence and lifespan. The conclusion in a >nutshell is that getting smarter and living long enough to >do something with that brainpower came at the cost of a >slower mutation rate, which slows the rate of evolution. That's almost a given anyway; evolution depends on selection pressures that are present for generations, and since "selection pressures"= things that kill us/stop us from breeding, we tend to turn our knowledge against them, and science usually works faster than long generations of evolution. If there's a treatment for something, it stops being an evolutionary pressure. > OTOH, a Human race that was smarter and didn't change >significantly over time might be to Jean's liking. If he >could keep from extinguishing the kind of "sideways >thinking" that he finds so useful. Well, these days it's a question of humans changing themselves instead of evolution (which does seem to be the route we're going; speaking as a member of the field I firmly believe we'll see the first successful gene therapy in our lifetime (unless there are any 80 year olds posting here :))). Jean (and by extension Vapula) are probably focusing very closely on biology at the moment and working on trying to shape exactly what humanity does to themselves with it (Vapula having somewhat more... extravagent ideas for it than Jean of course). - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:47:12 -0400 From: Mike Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Unicorns. >That was one of the coolest things you've ever come up with, Moe. I'm >definately adding it to my game. It changes Uriel's motives a bit, since >we all understand escalation. And who wouldn't want to slaughter >child-molesting monsters? > >It makes one wonder how much of a strangle-hold the Seelie court and their >unicorn allies had on Scotland, what with the unicorn on the Royal Coat of >Arms. And it later ended up on the British Coat of Arms... these rapist >beasts, no doubt helped along by select Demon Princes, would have had a >reach as far and as strong as the British Empire. The sun would never have >set on these corrupting, horned horrors had Uriel not foreseen, in his >wisdom, what would transpire. It's no wonder Yves refused to comment when >so many were convinced Uriel was in the wrong. The Archangel of Destiny >had seen the future, and it was enough. Wasn't there some sort of heretical belief about there being descendents of Jesus, the Desposyni, who had the unicorn as their symbol (the horn being a phallic symbol and the "pure" unicorn itself representing Christ)? Forgive me if I've got the details wrong, but it's been a while since I heard it. One wonders how that would fit with this image of Ethereal unicorns (a plot by Hell, or something else entirely...). Well, you'll excuse me for posting and running, but I have a bad chest cold so I have to go get rid of yet more oozing goo into 50 or so tissues for a little while (my apologies to Microsoft Outlook users if they catch it from me; I understand Outlook can catch almost any virus...). - -- Mike Bruner-- bruner@delaware.infi.net "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and Juliet is AHHH THE SUN!!!" *FOOM* --Vampire theatre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:56:41 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Janus and Valefor (was Uriel (was Blandine)) ><one >and the same, but nearly everyone agrees on the idea.>> (Well, no one in the American version of the game. In the French game, just FYI, Janus was formerly an Angel of Double Agents, meaning he used to serve Emmanuel, Archangel of Double Agents. In fact, it specifies in the Game Master's supplement how Janus is able to make it to both the Seraphim Council meetings -and- the Demonic meetings later that evening, or something akin to that.) >I believe this is my cue. > >While most of the list may believe that Janus and Valefor are the same, I >think if you look at the facts, you may come to believe otherwise. As the >line moves beyond the main rulebook*, Valefor and Janus start diverging. >It was the Final Trumpet that did it for me, with Janus wanting Armageddon >and Valefor opposing it. (The part where all the Demon Princes vote for >Armageddon still makes _no_ sense to me.) - -sigh- Well, can't an individual claim state one opinion while wearing one "mask" and then state a different opinion wearing a different "mask"? Janus is no Seraph. >Of course, since this isn't CDaU, it may very well be resolved in a future >product at which point we'll find out. Certainly, I look forward to seeing to what extent the American company is willing to depart from the original French product. What if . . . Valefor /did/ "steal" Janus' attunements?! Why hasn't he stolen those of other Archangels? Didn't I see something about Valefor seeing the prophecies of Nostrodomas (sp?) from Yves library (before they were written yet) . . . If thie Valefor guy is powerful enough to steal a Word, then why hasn't he done more about Asmodeus breathing down his neck. He *obviously* is able to manipulate the connection of others to the Symphony (or something, judging by the fact that he /stole/ a /Word/). I wonder if that means he stole the Word Forces of Rapine, and thus effectively stole Genubath's Word. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:42:59 -0700 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: IN> old superiors I was just looking through the archives when I read that the Superiors changed a decent amount from the original draft of the rulebook to the current version. I'm curious about what the original superiors were like. Can any of you who playtested the original In Nomine rule-book tell me how the superiors changed, and if there where any other big changes to the rules? - -Bevan - ------- "We've alway been under seige. The 'Real World' keep shoving us into cornors - -- so we've built some worlds of our own. Now whoever's controlling this... wants to take those worlds away. Well, I call that interplanetary war." -T. Campbell, "Fans: the Fandom Menace" _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:49:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Bradley Paranial wrote: >From my reading of the Corporeal Song of Shields. It was that it can with > stand ANY type of Corporeal Damage. Ayup. > Therefore, if say a six force Soldier were to find himself at Ground Zero of > a nuclear blast and he preformed the song, he'd live, even if he knew it at > only Level 1. Yes. In fact, such an example can be found in the Corporeal Players Guide. > Second what would happen if dropped a Nuke on a Superior. Corporeally? You'd wipe out their Vessel, definitely. (Note that MANY Superiors will casually leave the Song of Nemesis on, however, which would give them enough time to throw up a Song of Shields.) Of course, that's only *one* manifestation of the Superior, and it wouldn't even cause the others to blink. I'd give you two combat rounds free and clear before another manifestation of that Superior appeared, PISSED. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental. Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic. The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of the reader is left as an exercise for the 2nd god coefficient. A discussion of non-orthogonal, non-integral polytheism is beyond the scope of this message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:09:06 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Query From: Trevor Spinelli-Moore To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: IN> Query > I'm running a little campaign, and I was wondering if anyone else had >thought about this. I know that Raphael sacrafcied herself to destroy >Legion, but what if there were portions of her Forces still in the >world? Perhaps the Forces formed Remenants that are 5 or 6 Forces >humans that wander around. Kind of the mystical hermit who imparts >wisdom? I'm just curious if anyone else has run with this, I'm having >fun with it, and my players are searching for a way to recombine these >things. One of the players is on the list, or I'd go into more detail. >Regardless, just something to talk about. Vapula's expanded Superiors 4 writeup hints that, perhaps, Kronos...ran with that, so to speak. To be more explicit: Vapula's expanded Superiors 4 writeup hints that Vapula might have been created from Raphael's Remnant. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:12:52 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Something that may very well never come up but I'm asking anyway. From: Bradley Paranial >From my reading of the Corporeal Song of Shields. It was that it can with >stand ANY type of Corporeal Damage. > >Therefore, if say a six force Soldier were to find himself at Ground Zero of >a nuclear blast and he preformed the song, he'd live, even if he knew it at >only Level 1. > Actually, not quite. If he was at Ground Zero when he performed the Song, the blast would be inside the Shield, and he'd die. Nobody else would, though--the Shield would contain it. There's an example of something just like that in the Corporeal Player's Guide. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:16:36 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Cherub David? From: Krishnaswami, Neel >Benjamin Acosta wrote: >> What would David be like if he never went Malakite? > >He used to be a cherub, so I'd say his personality and agenda >would be identical. "Yes, you are your brother's keeper," is a >message that appeals to both Cherub and Malakite, I think. :) > But that's not all there is to David...Novalis certainly sees a difference, and I doubt she means his wings didn't use to be black. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:13:55 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Janus and Valefor (was Uriel (was Blandine)) Okay, everyone observe the Perry Lloyd Memorial Rule and take two drinks. ;) - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:47:48 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> old superiors From: Bevan Thomas >I was just looking through the archives when I read that the Superiors >changed a decent amount from the original draft of the rulebook to the >current version. I'm curious about what the original superiors were like. > >Can any of you who playtested the original In Nomine rule-book tell me how >the superiors changed, and if there where any other big changes to the >rules? I didn't playtest--I heard of In Nomine less than a year ago--but the original Superiors are in the INC somewhere. Give me a sec. http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/choirs/pre.html And I'm still really, really glad they were changed as much as they were before the book came out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:51:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> April 9, 2001 (ML) Tough one to do, for some reason, but I think that I was finally able to nail it down properly. Knock on wood. :) Moe Bataan Death March Road (Flowers) Yes, Flowers. Surprised? Saminga will be, too (presuming that he ever gets its new status through his head). Well, 'surprised' is the wrong concept. Try 'incandescently furious', instead: Bataan is a textbook case of what happens when you don't guard your Tethers against Word-shift. It started so well, though (at least from the point of view of the Prince of the War): a combination of a surrendered garrison, an occupying army from a nation that never signed the Geneva Convention and tropical weather resulted in thousands of deaths. By the standards of World War II, this wasn't an extremely bloody action, but the sheer indifference of the Japanese Army for the lives of their Filipino and American captives sparked the formation of a small Tether to Death. Saminga, naturally, stabilized it right away (he expects that these kinds of atrocities will result in Tethers, and can never understand why they usually don't) and appointed one of his Djinn (Krastai) as Seneschal. Needless to say, Krastai never saw her Superior again: in his special idiotic fashion, Saminga lost all interest in the Tether (it was very small, after all) after that. The Seneschal pretty soon discovered that getting any backup was pretty much a lost cause, too. To be fair, nobody ever expected that the Tether would be seriously assaulted: besides being small, it wasn't very useful - too many quirks to it. Anyway, what could happen? Well, what could happen would be that the Bataan Death March would become a horrible example on why humanity needed a Geneva Convention in the first place. What could happen would be that the people of the Philippines would commemorate the holiday, solemnly walking along the same path that saw the deaths of so many brave men. What could happen would be that those that recreated the March would come away with a quiet determination that this sort of thing couldn't be permitted to happen ever again. In other words, what could happen would be that the Word would shift away from Death - and have the potential to shift towards either Just War or Peace. Michael and Novalis flipped a coin for it - literally. Novalis won. Within six months, she had the Djinn Seneschal eating out of her hand. It wasn't hard: Novalis let Krastai scream for help - and would you believe that the Prince of Death ignored her even then? Faced with that kind of indifference, coupled with a growing disillusionment at the methods of Hell, the Djinn was teetering towards becoming Redemption material anyway. Having Novalis around to talk to was significant, too: it's hard to be nasty to the Archangel of Flowers. Once all of this had been settled, Novalis yelled for Michael to handle the Redemption while she put the final touches on hijacking the Tether - which is why there's a Tether to Flowers out there with a Cherub of War as the Seneschal, insane as that sounds. Apparently, it was the only way to ensure a clean transformation from Infernal to Divine (that's why they call ineffability). Nowadays, the Tether - well, it's still small, but it's a lot easier to use. It's centered on the worst part of the carnage (although it may shift soon to the places where the ceremonial walk begins and/or ends). Its Seneschal is a lot happier, too: Novalis may have her faults, but failure to provide proper support is not one of them. Crystal, Cherub of War Crystal really likes being an angelic Seneschal: instead of being stuck on the side of a road in the middle of the tropics with no company, she's actually busy now. The Host is taking advantage of the new resource to increase their presence in the Philippines, and the Tether is pretty much open to any angel that needs it. Crystal maintains her Tether by helping coordinate the annual pilgrimage on it: by now, she's practically running from behind the scenes. She's even made inroads in helping the numerous ghosts associated with the Bataan Death March move on to their final rewards (something that endears her to her new Superior). Nope, Saminga still hasn't popped in to see what went wrong. It's presumed that he's just assumed that the Tether was destroyed. Any intelligent Prince would at least have checked by now, of course: also of course, no one has ever accused Saminga of being smart. Crystal keeps hoping that he'll show up someday, though: knowing the Prince of Death, he'll probably think that he'll be dealing with a Flower-child, and will thus get the shock of his life when a grinning Archangel of War comes down to answer the call for help... Bataan Death March Road Tether: Average (7 Word-Forces, standard Flow, Celestial Harbor, Friendly). ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:07:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> April 9, 2001 (ML) Wow. That was GOOD. (Good by Moe standards. Incredible by typical standards.) Saved. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "I feel like we could write a song with the title 'I Wanna Fuck You' and people would still say, 'I don't understand...explain to me what that song means.'" -- John Flansburgh (They Might Be Giants) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:45:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> April 6, 2001 (PK) Urim and Thummin Unique Artifact(s)? A persistent rumor among celestials, the Urim and Thummin are the set (two pairs) of spectacles supposedly given to Joseph Smith by the angel Moroni to translate the golden plates found in the nearby hills. The nonexistence (in canon, at least) of an angel named Moroni - or any angel who admits to visiting Joseph Smith as Moroni - has made it nearly impossible to verify this story, or the existence of the Urim and Thummin. Yet every celestial knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who's seen them in person... for sure. Supposedly, the Urim allow a normal human to read and write in the Angelic language. The Thummin, though worn over the eyes as normal, allow a normal human to understand and (on a successful Singing roll) sing the Angelic language! Few celestials doubt that such artifacts can, and possibly do, exist... but then there's the fabled effect of BOTH pairs of glasses being worn at once.... According to rumor, when a human (and only a human) puts on both pairs of spectacles - a very bulky and obvious sight indeed - he or she can see celestials. In or out of vessels. Automatically and unerringly. (Whether or not it can see through Humanity depends on who's telling the story.) Further abilities appear in certain tellings - it varies from storyteller to storyteller - some good and some bad. One of the more common 'additions' is the infliction of a new Discord (Intolerance: Blacks) over the course of time. Be wary of how much you believe... especially if a Kobalite is anywhere near your side of the grapevine. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! The SubGenius woman to a Pink Boy: "I'm more woman than you'll ever have, and more man than you'll ever BE." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2153 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.