From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Apr 13 19:25:12 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16033 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:25:12 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id TAA08376 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:32:36 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:32:36 -0500 Message-Id: <200104140032.TAA08376@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2155 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, April 13 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2155 In this digest: IN> Re: Aztec gods IN> Oops! Re: IN> Query IN> The once and future King IN> Curatio Tectum IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2154 Re: IN> Re: Aztec gods Re: IN> Re: Aztec Gods Re: Open Tethers... (was Re: IN> April 9, 2001 (ML)) IN> milne spirits? Re: IN> milne spirits? IN> Two Quick Questions. IN> Fwd: some questions need answered please Re: IN> old superiors Re: IN> Fwd: some questions need answered please Re: IN> Two Quick Questions. Re: IN> Two Quick Questions. IN> Michael, Prince of Betrayal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:49:37 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Re: Aztec gods > (I know, I know -- the Aztec gods didn't exist in 745 either, and > Uriel supposedly killed them anyway. But that's a bug, not a > feature, dammit!) Y'know, Neel, that's a damn good point :) I hadn't really thought about it before now, but when Uriel killed the Aztec gods, they wouldn't have been much more than culture heroes among the really, really early "civilizations" of Mexico and Central America (as opposed to the "tribal peoples"). The large-scale human sacrifices wouldn't happen for at least another 400-500 years later. Hmm, maybe Uriel had a thing for hanging out in the "Future History" section of Yves' library. Still, that brings up another point. Since the Aztec gods would have been killed before their worship even got close to peaking out, wouldn't they have simply be reformed as new Ethereals, long after Uriel got recalled back up to Heaven? Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:17:20 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> Oops! Sorry about the double posting folks. I thought I cancelled the first one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:58:53 -0400 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: Re: IN> Query - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Spinelli-Moore" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:45 PM Subject: IN> Query > I'm running a little campaign, and I was wondering if anyone else had > thought about this. I know that Raphael sacrafcied herself to destroy > Legion, but what if there were portions of her Forces still in the > world? Perhaps the Forces formed Remenants that are 5 or 6 Forces > humans that wander around. Kind of the mystical hermit who imparts > wisdom? I'm just curious if anyone else has run with this, I'm having > fun with it, and my players are searching for a way to recombine these > things. One of the players is on the list, or I'd go into more detail. > Regardless, just something to talk about. > Someone metioned that Kronos turned Raphael's remnant into Vapula. But I don't remember who or why. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:05:41 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The once and future King Arthur Master of the Armies of God Saint of the Sword (formerly purity) Cor-3 Str-6 Agil-6 Eth-3 Int-4 Pre-8 Cel-3 Will-8 Per-4 Artifacts: None..for now. Vessel: (gift from laurence) 6/ (Charisma +3) Skills: Arthurian myth 6/, Detect lie 2/, Dodge 3/, Fighting 3/, Large Weapon (guess) 6/, Savoir Fair 6/ (Chivalry), Tactics 4/, Tracking 1 Songs: Dreams (Corporeal 6/), Thunder (Corporeal 5/), Tongues (corporeal 3/) Attunements: Purity of Purpose, The Blade Blessing of Laurence, Master of the Armies of God Yes. Stop looking at him like that. Yes you know Arthur as he's portrayed in the Media (curse Nybbas) is a fictional figure. Yes chivalry did not exist until the 15th century as a code really yet Arthur supposadly existed in the 5th century of Briton. Yes he knows there's a number of ethereals running around with his name. Yes according to Yves's library the sword Excalibur was actually a pagan relic and if it belonged to Arthur then that means...yes. Frankly Arthur wished that every crop of saints Laurence gets every generation didn't constantly want to talk to him as the first part of their entering heaven, now that he's got his wish he's even more annoyed that most assume he never existed. The basic facts about his legend that he remembers are true is that he was indeed associated with a pagan figure called Merlin, he also had some ties with Morgana (the Celtic goddess of war), and they gave him a really nice scabbard and sword which helped him win the battle of Bandon. Well after he died he was in for a rather nasty surprise that his gods in his "heaven" were actually fairly reviled by the "bigger gods" in the Archangels. To be a dream-shade one had to have a fairly strong tie to one's deity and not general concepts of good and well Arthur was pure so he ended up in Uriel's land. Having little reason to doubt his own senses unlike many other pagans who felt disillusioned or confused at least at first in Uriel's service he was Christianed and set to serve as a calvary man for Uriel's army. It's about this time that Uriel noticed Arthur's legend was still a rather resounding force in briton and when Arthur returned on numerous occasions to his homeland to slay a dragon, kill a giant, negioate a treaty, and on more than one bizzare occasion organize "circles" of holy soldiers of purity he decided it was probably a good idea that Arhur become a hero for the people of the region and the model of a Christian King. Of course Uriel didn't have much time to complete this as Arthur spent much of the Purity Crusade waging war in Briton against the earth bound fairy groves that the Romans under Earth had only begun to burn to ashes. Arthur to this day doesn't mention that he convienantly overlooked the Good Folk and certain others, it just wouldn't have been sporting. Besides Briton had enough craziness that he never had to. Joining with Laurence as one of his key advisor's he was insturmental in ending the Crusade though may Tsaydim still call him a traitor and take special pride in destroying his dream legends calling him "The King of Idols". Arthur himself now finding himself elevated to pretty much as high a position as a Saint can get has spent alot of his time advising Laurence in human matters since then, not always to good effect because for all the word that Arthur was the wisest of kings he is a bit backward in his utter belief in divine monarchy, sword first and ask questions later, and that it's perfectly natural for a man to seek as much glory and power for himself as possible if it's all done honorably. As one can see Arthur still effects Laurence to this day and the effect has been mutual. Curiously legends seem to become fact around Arthur in either a curious type of resonance or the fact the war chieftian is an essential fan of his own mythos. He actually does indeed have a wife named Gwenneth who is a fellow saint and a former nun of the Sword, a rather large knight order of Saints called the Circle whom are dedicated to promoting chivalry among mortals and to a lesser extent promoting the idea angels can't have all the demon hunting fun (it has a number of malakim members so they don't voice this too loudly) with some curiously familar names among it's roster-and oh some of the Saints George and Saint Patrick, he also has a curious love/hate relationship with the goddess of war Morgana whom while viewing him as a traitor to the cause of britain also notices that he resonates with a great deal of Britain's ancient past. Arthur as alluded to spends most of his time in Heaven managing the Circle affairs and wandering around Laurence's halls as he gives his skewered view of humanity that Laurence still trusts over any modern spirits. On occasion though he chooses to appear he usually now makes sure it's directly in the aid of the cause of Britain in times of dire peril. His last major appearence was when he took control of the British armed forces at several key battles during World War II and advised Winston Churchhill in a dream not to surrender during the Blitzkreig. It's generally scoffed at but Arthur believes seriously that on Armageddon he will return to the Earth and lead Britain during Armageddon (with Kobal's false crisis he was already waiting outside Parlimanet to talk to Tony Blair). Another way for Arthur to be seen is whenever Excalibur is involved, Arthur very personally considers it HIS sword and while it's fallen into the hands of others like King Richard the Lion Heart and several other heroes he wants it back. Unfortunately the Celtic pantheon, or what remains of them, are rather fond of the weapon as well plus hell would love to get it's hands on it. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:20:05 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> Curatio Tectum In going along with the idea of open Tethers... Joanna's been a Cherub of Eli's for a long time. She came into existence in 968 AD and has spent more time on Earth than a lot of Creationists. Eli's departure from Heaven was a horrid shock to her. Although she understood his reasons, she couldn't imagine life without his presence in his Cathedral. And to make things worse, she saw that many of her fellow Servitors would have to find places to keep their Hearts safe. She stopped Eli before he left and brought an idea to him. Within five seconds, her idea was approved and she was sent down to Earth as the Seneschal of one of the last Tethers to Creation to come into existence. Curatio Tectum (Healing Shelter) is located out in the woods of Alaska. It's well hidden from the world; the nearest town is seventy miles away and most of the road leading to it is unpaved. The few human Soldiers that live there hunt for their food or make the journey into town when they need supplies. What makes this Tether so special is that the Hearts of several Servitors of Creation are stored here. Thirty seven in all kept in a simple room. Joanna and the staff of the Tether check regularly on them to ensure that they are safe and to see if any angels have arrived there. The room itself is connected to a part of the Cathedral of Creation which is how the Hearts can stay where they are. As of late, Joanna has opened the Tether up to any angel that is trying to work of Dissonance. She takes anyone in who requests it and makes no judgments about them or what brought them to her doorstep. This kind of selfless help has earned her assistance from other Archangels. Jean dispatched one of his Mercurians to install and maintain the generator (It's a water powered system that is in the final stages of development. Jean thought it would be a perfect place to test it). Novalis has assigned one of her Elohim to counsel Dissonant angels and to make sure that they don't stumble any further. And Michael has allowed one of his Cherubim to help with maintaining the defenses (The Cherub in question spent a few weeks there to work off Dissonance. The Archangel of War decided to allow him to help protect the Tether). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:46:23 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2154 Moses Saint of Destiny (nominally) Prophet of God Master of Divine Knowledge Cor-3 Str-8 Agil-4 Eth-4 Int-8 Pre-8 Cel-4 Will-8 Per-8 Artifacts: Staff 6/ and anything else he might want really Skills: Animal Lore (Sheep 3/), Charioteering 2/, Detect Lies 3/, Emote 6/, Fighting 1/, Hebrew Lore 6/, Lgn (Egyptian 6/), Savioir Faire 4/, Survival (Desert 6/), Tracking 2/ Songs: Harmony (Corporeal 6/), Light (Corporeal 6/), Shields (Corporeal 6/), Tongues (Corporeal 6), Thunder (Corporeal 4/) Attunements: Abrcadabra, Call of the Wild, Divine Destiny, Master of Divine Knowledge (Seraphim), Transubstation Yes that Moses. I'm sure you've all either read the story in the Bible, watched the Charlton heston movie, or the Spielberg animated feature at some point in your lives and you thus know the basics of Moses's mortal life. Moses was a Hebrew slave child who narrowly scaped a massive state infancide of the innocents by being discovered in the reeds of the Pharoah's palace by his sister, thus allowing him to be raised a prince. His mother serving as a slave to her allowed him to also know of his heritage as Moses was eventually exiled for killing an architect who was beating a fellow Hebrew. Living in the desert he was visited by God and told to go forth and set the Hebrews free. The Kingdom of Egypt was ravaged by 10 plagues and the Hebrews were let loose to head to the land of Canaan but a mommentary lapse of faith in Moses led to him being unable to see the land he was to deliver save unto death. His next appearence was at the side of Jesus in a brief encounter where both he and Elijah recognized the Messiah and it's apcolyptical lore he shall return again. Since eventually curiousity pretty much drives everyone in Heaven to bone up on their Bible, these facts are fairly common knowledge. However the legend pretty much pales in comparison with the actual figure, though the "behind the scenes" play surprisingly fairly faithful to the tale. That Moses was a prophet was fairly common knowledge in Heaven but was surprised many was the deeply personal nature of his relationship to the point that many involved once again felt a deep intimacy with the Creator anew. Moses's powers were what seemed almost routine interventions by God on grand scales and Gabriel among others including Jordi, Dominic, Eli, and Uriel who is best known for being along with his servitors the "Angel of Death" who slaughtered all firstborn in Egypt who personally took a hand in Moses's life. Uriel appointed one of his Elohim Khalid to serve watch as one of the Hebrews gaurding Moses and it was he who helped reveal Lilith and Baal's infiltration of the Hebrews, carrying out the brutal punsishment of the Hellsworn. When Moses died most expected never to see the fellow again and if he did return it would be from the Higher Heavens in the Last days. Instead Moses seems quite content to wait in the Lower Heavens hanging around Yves's library, the Gardens of Novalis, Jordi's Savannah, with occasional venturing into the Holy City and Volcano. It's enough to make some angels neverous. When asked why Moses still hasn't ascended Jacob's ladder his answer is quite reasonable "It isn't my time yet" or something along the lines of that he's waiting for something. The first messiah of the Jews refuses to comment on Jesus and whether or not he took the time to visit him saying that if he demands further proof of God's act then he obviously doesn't believe and whatever he might say will not change his mind, which of course just makes matters worse. He's accorded a great deal of respect and Khalid along with the above mentioned Archangels treat his advice which he only rarely chooses to give with the attention one accords an Archangel. Moses's "special task" as he calls it again he refuses to elaborate on but many have tried to guess it by the few actions he does take an interest in. Jewish affairs and Slavery of course recieve alot of Moses's attention and Yves's mysterious nature has led several to wonder if the old prophet may have been a deciding hand in Zionism in the modern world. Another aspect is that Moses occasionally "adopts" Celestials and Saints to give them advice on both God and their purpose, finally Moses makes no secret that of all the demons in Hell he believes Lilith to be the most evil and encourages all of Heaven to make it a special point to destroy her. This point is illustrated by one of the few incidents of a Bright Lilim falling where Moses came upon her as she shattered her heart and prepared to jump saying Heaven was slavery and better to rot in the freedom of Hell's debauchery and murder under her mother than the hypocrites of Heaven. Moses replied very slowly with a slight slur "Your mother betrayed Adam and all of her race unto slavery for the Hordes of Hell's amusement and you now go forth to become slaver to your brother and sister children of God. You do not know freedom and deserve not this but know it as the fate of all your lying kind." and the Heaven's parted as the Lilim was disentagrated with a dozen bolts of lightning from the sky. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:01:44 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztec gods >> (I know, I know -- the Aztec gods didn't exist in 745 either, and >> Uriel supposedly killed them anyway. But that's a bug, not a >> feature, dammit!) > >Y'know, Neel, that's a damn good point :) > >I hadn't really thought about it before now, but when Uriel killed the >Aztec gods, they wouldn't have been much more than culture heroes among the >really, really early "civilizations" of Mexico and Central America (as >opposed to the "tribal peoples"). The large-scale human sacrifices >wouldn't happen for at least another 400-500 years later. Hmm, maybe Uriel >had a thing for hanging out in the "Future History" section of Yves' >library. Another possible point in favor of Uriel, for those that want to mussy up the contrast a bit. Uriel: "Well, right now he's a warrior-figure with a taste for licking the blood off his claws. And yes, it'll take several hundred years for him to get into anything really *nasty*. But by that time, he'll be so entrenched that if you kill him he'll pop back into existence the next major holiday. So I don't care if you think he's harmless. *I have a job to do*." (So in the argument above, Uriel would have taken out the gods in question, only before they became a real problem. To his detractors, killing someone before they commit the crime is bloody well awful; there were, or could have been, other means available; and he still went overboard, unless you really think *all* Ethereals were that bad.) >Still, that brings up another point. Since the Aztec gods would have been >killed before their worship even got close to peaking out, wouldn't they >have simply be reformed as new Ethereals, long after Uriel got recalled >back up to Heaven? This is a general point about Ethereals I'd like to see clarified. My personal notion, which may or may not be anywhere near canon, is that there are a few basic types of ethereals, with different "regen" times: Dream fragments, stabilized dream fragments, Created ethereals(w/Song, e.g.): one-offs. If you kill them, they won't come back. Somebody else might dream something like them, but it's pure chance, unless they've managed to leave behind word of their existence, like in a book. Cultural icons and gods: Considerably stronger. They have a large number of people feeding them Essence - the only real difference between the two is that in the case of a god, it's deliberate. These Ethereals can take a hand to strengthen their presence and thereby further assure their recreation in case of death, as well as a steady Essence supply to keep them alive. If you kill them, they will probably reform -- possibly at the next major influx of Essence, which is one reason gods set up holidays. To permanently get rid of them, you can either reduce their presence in their culture -- rather like attacking a celestial's Word -- or just kill them repeatedly, wearing down their incarnations and cutting off the base of support for the notion in the culture, until it transmutes into something only minimally related to the original idea by sheer weight of time. Archetypes: Practically permanent. These are part of the human subconscious and semi-conscious awareness. You can't get people to stop feeding these Ethereals without fundamentally changing human nature. Kill an incarnation, and another one will form almost instantly, probably around the next midnight. Much like humanity itself, you simply have to deal with their existence. >Later. >Jonathan William ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:34:32 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Aztec Gods Michael Walton wrote: > - --- "Krishnaswami, Neel" wrote: > > Did they even exist in 745 AD? I mean, Afro-Caribbean > > beliefs are a rather eclectic mix of Yoruba and Dahomey > > practices plus a bunch of new theology thrown into the mix. > > The Syncretic religions wouldn't have been around back > then, but belief in the Loa and Orishas predates European > contact with African peoples. That's real world, I'm not > sure how IN canon treats it. Sure, but (for example) even though Yama exists in both Hindu and Chinese myth, and indeed entered Chinese myth via India, they are rather different legends. If I were running an ethereals game there would be two different ethereals with the same name. I guess I'm wondering if there are enough similarities between the two branches to consider the gods same enough to be the same ethereals, or if they are different gods with the same names. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:44:52 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: Open Tethers... (was Re: IN> April 9, 2001 (ML)) Charles Glasgow writes: > Michael Walton wrote: > > > > As a side note, Khalid would be interested in this one, too. > > There's a significant Muslim population in the Philippines. > > Actually, if a Flowers Tether is letting War servitors use their > highway to Heaven, one can hardly see Servitors of Faith not being > given free passage as well. > > Honestly, I'm waiting for the Seraphim Council meeting where somebody > suggests to Lauernce that (except for those Tethers that have limits > on how many Forces can pass up and down them per unit time, of course) > if everybody just let everybody else use each other's Tethers, > regardless of political affiliation, just so long as no actual running > gun battles were dragged right to the Tether's doorstep, Heaven could > *really* steal a march on Hell. This was actually the justification I used to explain why the PC group were random collections of angels IMC: the archangels figured that their Servitors' differing approaches would complement one another. Each PC still reported to their own Superior, but they were all expected to work together and help each other out. Only Dominic's triads had no other archangels' servitors in them, and even he dedicated a substantial number of Servitors to "detached duty." - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:52:54 -0400 From: Amanda Kilgore Subject: IN> milne spirits? Just an odd thought that occurred as I was being bored to tears at work. A. A. Milne's "Pooh" characters... Ethereal pantheon, or Relievers, or even angels? Discuss amongst yourselves. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:22:21 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> milne spirits? - -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Kilgore To: IN Nomine List Date: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:55 PM Subject: IN> milne spirits? >Just an odd thought that occurred as I was being bored to tears at >work. A. A. Milne's "Pooh" characters... Ethereal pantheon, or >Relievers, or even angels? Definetly Ethereals, Completly sold out to the Media, through the Disney Shell corporation. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:48:12 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> Two Quick Questions. There are two terms that I see mentioned on this list as well as a few of the websites that I have come across. I am curious about what they are and would appreciate it if someone could clue me in. 1. The Eighth Virtue 2. The Order of the Eternal Sword. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:22:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fwd: some questions need answered please >Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:34:13 -0500 >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Non-member submission from [Bill Perman ] [Check out www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html , and then, www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/lists.html for instructions on how to s u b s c r i b e.[ >Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:15:24 -0400 >From: Bill Perman >Subject: some questions need answered please > >does In Nomine 2nd ed contain any new art, as well as any changes >outside errata from first edition? > >Also, I have a new player whos character has 9 precision and a 3 >firearms. That means he has to roll a "12" on his d666 to fail. Does >this seem right for a newly created character? Is this balanced? > >Are any new products at all comming out for In Nomine? > >Can you please respond to this e-mail as I (feeling dumb) don't quite >know where to look for posted answers to my question. Or at least leave >instructions? > >Thanks, >-Bill > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:28:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> old superiors At 5:42 PM -0700 4/12/01, Bevan Thomas wrot >Can any of you who playtested the original In Nomine rule-book tell me how >the superiors changed, and if there where any other big changes to the >rules? You've gotten a link to one chunk of old rules -- and let it be known that Blandine used to be a Seraph... I think Dominic used to be a Malakite _and_ a Cherub, but I don't recall which at the moment. I'd have to go do some looking up of stuff that I'd rather not do since the spouse is home early. O:> Another big change was Malevolence/Divinity. (Angels had Divinity, demons had Malevolance.) It ran in a 0-6 range, IIRC from the playtest files I found after the fact, and the more of it you had, the better you were at Songs -- but the worse you were at mundane skills. (So if you were at Divinity 3, you were -3 to your corporeal skills, but +3 to your Songs.) IIRC, again, if you hit 0, you pretty-near turned into something like a Remnant. Choir resonances were -vastly- changed; what's on the website listed is a revision from that. For instance, all Seraphim (great healers!) had Song of Healing with a bonus, but no truthsense. Somewhere in there, Lilim were going to have a Charm/Geas ability like the Impudite Charm/StealEssence ability; that's what all those "bonus to charm" things are in the Band Attunements for Lilim! (Now they're just bonuses to Getting Good Reactions.) That's all I can remember off the top of my head. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:32:20 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: some questions need answered please >>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:15:24 -0400 >>From: Bill Perman >>Subject: some questions need answered please >> >>does In Nomine 2nd ed contain any new art, as well as any changes >>outside errata from first edition? No, it does not. In fact, it removes a piece of art to make room for one of the erratums. >>Also, I have a new player whos character has 9 precision and a 3 >>firearms. That means he has to roll a "12" on his d666 to fail. Does >>this seem right for a newly created character? Is this balanced? Actually, he doesn't roll a 12 to fail (though many GMs have "12 fails" as a house rule). He always succeeds, barring negative modifiers or interventions. Balanced? In Nomine doesn't sweat balance much; that's really up to GMs more. >>Are any new products at all comming out for In Nomine? Eventually; I know of some projects which I can't talk about because they're not on the front burner right now. O:p >>Can you please respond to this e-mail as I (feeling dumb) don't quite >>know where to look for posted answers to my question. Or at least leave >>instructions? www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/lists.html . But read www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html first. Trust me. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:33:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Two Quick Questions. At 6:48 PM -0400 4/13/01, Cameron McCurry wrote: >1. The Eighth Virtue A "floating Malakite convention" from _You Are Here._ >2. The Order of the Eternal Sword. Something of Laurence's from _Superiors 1_. Would do more detail, but I hear a baby cranking... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:18:44 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Two Quick Questions. - -----Original Message----- From: Cameron McCurry To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:50 PM Subject: IN> Two Quick Questions. > There are two terms that I see mentioned on this list as well as a few >of the websites that I have come across. I am curious about what they are >and would appreciate it if someone could clue me in. > >1. The Eighth Virtue The Eighth Virtue is a wandering bar for Earth-bound Malakim, where weary Virtues can take a load off, throw back a drink and trade Demon-Whacking stories. It's never in the same place twice, but Malakim always seem to find it. >2. The Order of the Eternal Sword. Laurence's answer to the Marines, these are an Elite division of his Servitors who devote themselves to hunting the worst of the worst in the Hellish ranks. They take their targets out of a "Most Wanted" list written by Laurence himself, which features some of the most unredeemable Demons out there (The Demon of Child Molesting, The Demon of Ecological Disasters, etc.) Hope that helped. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:24:47 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Michael, Prince of Betrayal Michael Prince of Betrayal "A man's loyalty is measured only in his ability to conquer his master." Michael's fall struck the Heavengly Host hard as they felt it rock the highest corners of God's empire even as it shuddered the very fibrations of Hell with the emergence of the hideous being into their midst. The cause of the fall to this day is not known but it is generally believed to be the result of a confrontation between Yves and Michael about Gabriel which degenerated into a shouting match about all decisions until the point that Michael pointed out in no uncertain terms that he was God's insturment and most trusted agent and it was wrong of Yves to treat him like a spoiled and insolent child. Yves then revealed himself in all his glory to Michael whose mind broke at the sight of God and he fell to the Darkness as he cut a hideous swath through Heaven and the broken winged Balseraph emerged in Hell. Hell did not want Michael present for aside from snickering that it was proof Heaven's ability to keep it's champions was flawed they feared the momment he had arrived that Michael was here to slaughter them all and once he was finished with Lucifer that he would cut them down one by one. Baal moved to confront Michael as Lucifer appeared behind him and Michael bitterly denounced Baal as unworthy of his time and told the impudent child that he was not going to be tolerated in stopping his battle with his true foe. The torrent of insults that Michael had only been humoring the once Archangel of Valor (whose word was the weakest of the originals and rightly was but a facet of War) with his challenge, he then knocked away the Demon Prince of the War and shouted for Lucifer to prepare for his soul-death, proclaiming Hell was Michael's new kingdom and that it would be his stepping stone for the destruction of the Earth before he climbed to heaven to murder his foul former brethren and ripped God's heart from his chest with his teeth. Lucifer blinked at the warrior demon for a moment then said "Please bring that up at the next commitee Prince of Betrayal." Lucifer departed as calmly and causally as ever as nearly all of Hell wondered exactly how the Prince of Darkness possesed the balls to do so before Michael was infused with the terrible power of the False Symphony that rebirthed him as the Demon Prince of forsaking, treachery, oathbreaking, and countless other terrible words anti-ethical to everything that Michael had once been. Looking down at Baal he lifted up his ax and shouted that he could keep his commandership of the piddling forces of Hell and that perhaps he could find a position for the thirdborn cleaning chamberpots for the new army when he had finished his work, citing the gross incompetance of the war before going into the night. Baal merely kept his sword to himself causally and returned to Gehenna where he prepared for the comming Armageddon. Michael currently does not appear as he was and this is no accident for he has rejected the very core of nobility that made him who he was. Transformed thus the creature appears normally either as a terrifying three headed Draconic Balseraph with that mocks the holy Trinity as well as his former Seraphim form or an amazingly intense wild eyed man in his middle years dressed in clothing that may have once been finery but has become blood stained and ill kept due to weathered storms. The creature cannot wield an ax in this form but it much greater fits the Prince of Betrayal's desire to tempt or rend his foes limb from limb, there are some in Hell already calling Michael the Beast from Revelations. Dissonance It is Dissonant for any servitor of Betrayal to not capitialize on a weakness when it presents itself. If a superior or enemy has shown a method that by which you might better yourself without excessive danger then you are going against your Prince's nature NOT to destroy them. The same can be said of inferiors who are plotting against you and being demons this is a rather large group of people including EVERY one of your Prince's fellow demons. While this sort of attitude makes the Prince of Betrayals one of the most filled with murder, untrustworthy, backstabbing, and dueling factions in Hell (saying something that is) it also weeds out the weak extremely well and Michael makes sure that his followers thus are extremely well rounded and well trained. The Prince of Betrayal conversly also does not have any shortage of recruits given the lavish rewards, power, and victory that those who survive the "tempering" process recieve. Choir Attunements Balseraphs Michael's Balseraphs are less the power-brokers and liars of Hell than the battle hardened bloody thirsty warlords of it. Whenever attempting to foster loyalty in a subordinate who is not a demon of Betrayal (who are curiously immune) or destroy another's faith in a superior a Balseraph may add his corporeal forces to his resonance roll, and they usually have ALOT. Djinn A Djinn of Betrayal is known curiously as Betrayal's gaurdians which conversly instead of helping them remember their Cherub nature (or discover it) being Betrayers makes sure that they use their position to destroy the objects of their attunement even as they climb over the rubble of it (or corpses) to higher positions in michael's army. It is not helpful many are assigned to fellow Betrayer demons and even Djinn. A Betrayer Djinn may project a false aura of trustworthiness to anyone in his presence whenever around his attuned. Calabim Calabim of betrayal are Michael's shocktroops like much in Hell but the difference is Michael weeds out the stupidly destructive fairly quickly to the point the survivors are intelligent double dealers either playing up the "stupid calabim" while planning the destruction of their subordinates or deliberately doing their best to shatter the image. Whenever targeting the leader or symbol of a group's loyalty a calabim's resonance is considered tripled. Habbalah Habbalah of Betrayal can use their resonance and add their corporeal forces to increase a person's paranoia. With a check digit of six the person will permanently be put on edge ala Fox Mulder or John Hinkley unless they are seriously counselled and resassured. Habbalah of Betrayal are Michael's Sabeteours as they are charged with destroying moral, equipment, loyalty, and resources within enemy camp. Lilim Lilim of Betrayal are some of Michael's favorite toys as they never served Heaven and are in a way a Malakim's counterpart in the Symphony, the Dishonorable. Whenever they are spending geas hooks, any geas that is spent in a form of betrayal (getting someone to steal from their boss, sleep around when they're married, or give up state secrets) the Geas hook is only half the normal cost. Shedim Shedim of Betrayal are in a way Michael's personal form of vengence against Heaven as Shedim who possess angels or soldiers of god (the later almost exclusively) do not need to increasingly corrupt their hosts further and gain a bonus of their corporeal forces when doing so. Michael believes nothing is sweeter when a loved friend or boon companion is trusted with gaurding something spectacular then destroys it as he laughs it all the way. Impudites Impudites of Michael are the low level officers of Michael's crew; charged with "beating troops into shape" or convincing folks to abadon ship on good causes for their own good. Impudites suffer no dissonance it should be noted for killing a human they have charmed and curiously enough gain all the person's stored essence when they do so! Servitor Attunements Profiency Same as Michael attunement Howl Same as Michael attunement Blinding Flash of the Obvious This attunement allows a servant of Michael to allow an angel, human, or demon to suddenly call into question his loyalty to his cause and with a resisted will roll can force the person to lose all faith in their cause until some event causes them to dramatically regain it. This is a variant of the Divine Logic attunement and requires roughly a minute of talking to acomplish, Michael is taking no small satisfaction in using it on servitors of Novalis and Destiny more interested in redemption than victory over demons. Distinctions Knight of Traitors This ability allows a demon of Betrayal at a glance to know the reasons a person is fighting for a particular cause and how great his loyalty to that cause is, usually bestowed to help find weak links in chains so to speak. Captain of Falling The Demon by assuming his celestial form can instantly cause all beings who look upon him to be forced to make a resisted willpower roll not to flee in terror. Oddly former servants of Michael keeping their Friend of the Fighters attunement remain immune. Baron of Mindless Fanatics A baron may compell his followers in combat to commit to a fight until it results in his destruction or theirs (or their enemies) or he orders a withdrawal. It is generally believed that this cruel ability is a way of describing michael's feelings about God, that he is a coward who left his troops to fight while he fled in terror. Subordinates may make willpower rolls to throw off the compulsion every round of fighting but it doesn't require the presence of the commanding officer to be done, even just standing orders will suffice. Rites * Kill an angel (soul kill an angel +3) * Betray someone at a critical moment Relations Michael doesn't play by the rules in hell and that still has alot of people nerveous. The fact remains that while he is a significant addition to the Forces of Hell for Heaven's own fear at facing the former commander of the Host in battle, the fanatical moral Michael inspires to taking the fight against the host, and the tactically brillant evil that has changed the face of the war forever Michael also does not hide his contempt for his fellow demon princes, runs his army entirely his own way, and is clearly insane in his desire to destroy God. The more militant princes save Baal are extremely fond of Michael as he is a grand ally to them even as he and his troops view them merely as cannon fodder for the war against heaven. Malphas personally believes Michael may be the key to cracking Heaven. Asmodeus personally despises the man because he simply kills any Gamester who attempts to try one of his servitors though handles his redemption problems normally. Baal however remains Michael's greatest foe as the Prince of Gehenna following defections has recovered his pride long enough to begin preparations for contacting Heaven to help with Michael's destruction, on the promise he gets to finish him off. Valefor is finding himself without a principality as Michael begins transforming his side of Stygia into his recruitment grounds, Malphas having wisely suggested to most of his servitors it might be best to cooperate with michael (the rest he suggested to join Baal) Allied: Belial, Saminga (Belial, Malphas, and Saminga are allied to him) Associated: Malphas, Magog, Fufur Hostile: All others (Asmodeus, Andrephalus, Lilith is hostile to him) Enemy: Valefor (Baal and Valefor are his enemies) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2155 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.