From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Apr 16 18:22:29 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32206 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:22:28 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id SAA26085 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:30:01 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:30:01 -0500 Message-Id: <200104162330.SAA26085@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2159 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, April 16 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2159 In this digest: IN> The Order of pascifists IN> A Modern Skulker IN> The Demon of Elvis Re: IN> The Order of pascifists IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) IN> Guanxi Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) IN> Good Friday Re: IN> Bears of Comfort Re: IN> New Discord Re: IN> Concrete Cuddlys Re: IN> Michael, Prince of Betrayal Re: IN> The once and future king Re: IN> Strange, even for a Habbalite Re: IN> Concrete Cuddlys Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) Re: IN> New Minor Choir (Michael) Re: IN> New Discord Re: IN> New Discord ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:18:15 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Order of pascifists >Laurence ain't their biggest worry... He's too honorable is. >... Dominic is. > >After all, doesn't something like this usually trigger one of Dominic's >patented "So, you think you're smarter than the Lord our God, who personally >granted Commander Laurence his Word and current station? Care to explain >exactly why?" question-and-answer sessions? "Effectively since the prophets of God promote nonviolence milord we disagree with Lord Laurence's methods and though we do not disagree with the Lord's pick for the Host, it is quite possible that the Lord is choosing us to express his outrage for the methodology of his current Commander in hopes he will change his ways." To which Dominic makes a squichy face., >"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth! I came not to bring >peace, but the sword." -- Matthew 10:34 and point out the sword Peter used was obviously incorrectly used in the garden. You just bring the swords to be bashed into plowsheers. To which the Malakim usually bash them on the back of the heads. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:20:54 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> A Modern Skulker I forgot the Grigori were called WATCHERS for a reason. brrr. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:26:02 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Demon of Elvis FOOLS! Elvis was never a human or even ethereal, all the essence goes to Hell! Look at the name! Evils (Anagram for Elvis!) It was all a careful plot by THIS MAN! Nybbas Yes I know you thought it would someone less than an Superior but truly Nybbas wanted his entire life to be cool and Rex just wasn't cutting it. With a really good roll, a handsome vessel, and his herethro unknown great singing ability...yes Nybbas became... Buddy Holly. Well you know that didn't work out so he managed to finally get some contacts and became elvis! 1/10 appearences has Nybbas showing up in blue suade shoes and you TRY to stop him from performing if you summon him in Las Vegas.... - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:14:44 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> The Order of pascifists - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Phipps To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, April 16, 2001 2:21 PM Subject: IN> The Order of pascifists >>Laurence ain't their biggest worry... > >He's too honorable is. > Plus, he's a Good Christian. The way I see it, he probably doesn't like violating his own religion's strictures about violence anymore then the Pacifists do, but what can he do about it? It's not like Baal's boys are willing to just negociate peacefully. The way I see it, the War faction's response to Pacifist criticism must be very simple: "Hey, it's not like we started it... We'd all be willing to just put down our Weapons and play nice and sweet forever... ...As long as you can convince the Demons to put their's down first." - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:24:00 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders)
>Some ideas here for ya'll
>
>The Order of Pacifists
>
>This group of angels is composed almost entirely of servitors of Destiny,
>Dreams, Creation, and Flowers with every member a devout Christian or member
 
Along similar lines, I present a little something from based upon the original game.  (And therefore non-canon, obviously.)
 
The Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council
 
The Seraphim Council meets at least once a week (typically Monday), with rarely an exception.  The meeting is about 10 to 15 hours long and therein things are brought forth, discussed, voted upon, and to whom officially responsible for what actions is discussed, argued, reasoned out, and decided upon (but rarely voted upon).
 
In the first three hours or so, issues, problems or ideas are brought up and discussed.  Normally, there will not be a call for a vote on these issues until the Councils Three are allowed to meet, which they typically do after all issues have been presented; they meeting for about three to five hours, during which time often angels will be seen moving between groups to exchange information.  Occassionally, something will come up that will be important enough that the Seraphim Council in its entirity (sp?) will reconvene to ensure that all will hear about it, such as bringing for a new issue previously unmentioned.
 
Typically, after the Councils Three have met, then the Seraphim Council (everyone) will reconvene.  Rarely are new issues brought forth at this time (bringing forth a new issue during the Councils Three usually entails a reconvening). It is at this time that councils will present their opinions, arguements, and takes on the issues at hand.  Finally, votes are cast.
 
Beings to be granted Words are typically included as one of many issues at hand.
The trials of Angels is not included as one of many issues.  In such as case there is a special convening of the Seraphim Council (on a Thursday, typically), specifically for the trial.  The issue (the defendent, the evidence, etc) is presented, the Councils Three meet, discussion follows, there is a reconvening, and votes are cast.  Dominic decides the punishment, though he has been known to request that the Council or the angel's Archangel decide.
 
The Councils Three are the following:
 
Offensive Council (33 votes) - concerned chiefly with what's being done to attack Hell's forces.  All have a tendency towards violence, but each Archangel his own tactics, motives, and methods.
* Dominic      9 votes (in the case of a tie, Dominic will act to break it)
* Laurence     7 votes
* Micheal       7 votes
* Jordi           5 votes
* Janus          5 votes
 
Defensive Council (32 votes)- concerned chiefly with helping save human beings from themselves, other humans, Ethereal and Demonic forces.
* Christopher    5 votes
* Khalid            5 votes  (not too sure about Khalid since I haven't got his write-up)
* David             7 votes
* Novalis           7 votes
* Zadkiel           6 votes 
 
Information Council (35 votes)- concerned primarily with determining what knowledge is and isn't appropriate for humanity, as well as keeping track of Hell's movements, Ethereal Developments, as well noting developments in Songs, Attunements, and newly Worded beings.
* Yves              6 votes
* Jean               7 votes
* Marc              7 votes
* Blandine         9 votes
* Litheroy         6 votes
 
Note that I have not included any Angels beyond the Superiors, because the non-superiors will can/could vary significantly from campaign to campaign.  Also, this assumes that Blandine and Jordi are present for the Council meetings (as they are in my campaigns).  I also did not include Soldekai, Gabriel's stand-in.

-Perry, kfc

perrylloyd@hotmail.com
pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu
http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo

"And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?"
--from A Matter For Men
by David Gerrold

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------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:24:16 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> Guanxi Sorry about this one, I was just inspired by the recent Skulker post. I'm not exactly sure why it led me to this, but it did, somehow. Zhang'an Bright Lilim of Trade Angel of Guanxi [stats? who needs stats?] One of the neat thing about Words is that, since they are conceptual, they can apply to ideas that aren't necessarily translatable into every language. For instance, Baal's Demon of Realpolitik or Laurence's waning Angel of Seppuku. Since commerce is fairly universal, Marc doesn't often have angels that fall into this category, but Zhang'an's Word is another one of those cases. As one of a number of Bright Lilim that serve Trade (Heaven's Brights have a strong tendency to gravitate to Marc), Zhang'an is not quite treasured like the Brights of other Superiors, but he is still very special in the eyes of his Archangel, who in recent years has begun to grow worried about him. Marc has sometimes wondered if it was a great idea to Word-bind a Bright Lilim, but the truth of the matter is that no one but a Child of Lilith could properly understand the Word of Guanxi. As a former servitor of Asmodeus, Zhang'an knew plenty about his Word before he even redeemed and awarded with it. For the non-Chinese speakers out there, "guanxi" is a concept that is not completely unknown in other cultures, but no English word can truly capture the meaning of it. It literally means "relations," "connections," or "influence" but is something much more profound than that. "Guanxi" is how one gets things done in China. After living under an organized bureaucracy for 4000+ years, the Chinese are very much aware that going through all the specified red tape, filling out the proper forms, paying the required "fees" (i.e. bribes), arguing with bull-headed officials, and going through all the normal channels is just not the most expediant method. However, you always have friends who can help you bypass a great deal of that. Well, maybe not _personal_ friends, per say ... but there's always an uncle on your mother's side who's friends with the nephew of a certain official's wife ... and they certainly know how to get things done. Because, as it turns out, you can just pay one moderate sum to the right person, and all the other complications simply disappear. That, to put it rather crudely, is "guanxi." Knowing people in the right places, knowing how to work the system (legally and illegally) to your own advantage, and avoiding trouble simply through dropping the right names or knowing who to bribe. People who have a great deal of guanxi are able to move through China's complex government and economic restrictions almost effortlessly, and will just smile enigmatically when you ask them how they do it. Of course, the ideas that are present in the concept of "guanxi" are not limited just to China. Everyone, from Mexican drug lords to United States Senators, knows that often who you know and the strings you pull is the most important part of any interaction. As a Tempter of Asmodeus, Zhang'an was heavily buried in a web of connections, using it to create chaos and raise real sleezeballs to high government positions. However, he began to genuninely care about some of the relationships that he created, even though he was supposed to be using people purely for what they could provide him. One of Yves' Redeemer Squads got to him and, as soon as everyone knew, Zhang'an was a servitor of Marc, spinning his webs of guanxi for the other side. After all, guanxi isn't just used to smuggle cars and opium. More often than not, it makes life easier for those who know how to build relationships with a large variety of people. Obtrusive and silly bureaucratic regulations can be bypassed, allowing humanity to more freely trade ideas and goods. Draconian legal systems, like those present in China and other authoritarian nations, can be transformed simply by human relationships, where the word of the law is overridden by bonds of family and friendship. It is this aspect of the Word of Guanxi that Zhang'an promotes as a servitor of Trade, and he couldn't be happier ... However, there are some problems. First of all, the negative uses of guanxi (covering up criminal activities, corruption, greed, inequality, usery, and other practices) are spoiling his Word, and the line between the bright and dark uses of influence is very fine. Marc himself is little help as a role-model, though Zhang'an often uses the Archangel as a example when trying to decide which practices to support or hinder. Additionally, Zhang'an is a Bright Lilim, and a male-aspected one at that: the rare among rare. Many demons of the Game would be more than happy to drag him kicking and screaming back to Asmodeus. On top of that, Zhang'an is beginning to show the signs of being a Celestial yo-yo. Partially from the darker influences of his Word and the abuse that's possible with it, he is starting to exhibit not a few demonic tendencies. And the Prince of the Game, considering the state of China and the rest of the world's bureaucracies, would be more than happy to receive Zhang'an back again ... already Word-bound. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:37:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) I'm surprised to see that Dominic has more votes than Laurence on the Offensive Council. In fact, I'm a little surprised to see him on th Offensive Counsil at all; he's not much concerned with prosecuting the War. He's Internal Security; it's angels he hauls up for judgement, not demons. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:19:23 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) I think that's because Perry has borrowed the Councils fairly wholesale from INS/MV, where Dominique _is_ a major member of the war faction, and swings more votes than anybody else does. Correct, Perry? Genevieve - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 16 April 2001 21:38 Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) >I'm surprised to see that Dominic has more votes than Laurence >on the Offensive Council. In fact, I'm a little surprised to >see him on th Offensive Counsil at all; he's not much concerned >with prosecuting the War. He's Internal Security; it's angels >he hauls up for judgement, not demons. > >Earl > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:50:05 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders)



>I'm surprised to see that Dominic has more votes than Laurence
>on the Offensive Council. In fact, I'm a little surprised to
>see him on th Offensive Counsil at all; he's not much concerned
>with prosecuting the War. He's Internal Security; it's angels
>he hauls up for judgement, not demons.
>
>Earl
 
It's out of the original game.  I thought kinda odd too, but, I figure that the Champion of the Catholic Church probably /would/ be on the Offensive Council.  Uh, in INSMV, there's a note saying that Dominic will use his votes to break ties (as the other four Archangel's votes /can/ tie).  Doesn't say that's the only thing he does with his votes, though.
 
Also, I don't see Dominic as having interest in merely internal affairs.  I see him as being active in guiding the Catholic Church, as well as being active in working with Laurence to locate Evil in the world and bring it to an end, particularly through the police.  Almost always in my game  the police of the city are Judgement supported, typically with at least an angel of judgement present, if not with a few soldiers for support.  Also, Dominic is very powerful in my game, (perhaps with good reason, as it's said that he has the /best/ Judgement in Heaven :) and his opinion of the situation has a significant impact on the PC's Archangel's.

-Perry, kfc

perrylloyd@hotmail.com
pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu
http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo

"And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?"
--from A Matter For Men
by David Gerrold

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Good Friday This is just plain _wrong_. I'll have to use it. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:47:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Bears of Comfort Very similar to the Dream Friend Artifact in the LR. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:48:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Discord - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Heart on His Sleeve (Ethereal) Uh huh, read Snow Crash, have we? 0;> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:52:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Concrete Cuddlys You've... got... to... be... kidding... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! (Over the top? Naaaah.) ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Michael, Prince of Betrayal - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Everyone ever done a redeemed or never fallen Baal? He'd > make a fun Malakim I had an idea a while back that I never did anything with - -- Anti-Nomine. The basic premise was to take all of the Superiors and switch sides. Thus, all the AA's would become DP's and vice versa. I didn't do it because, quite frankly, it's too big a project for one guy to take on without getting paid. However, many hands make light the work. Anybody up for another contest? We've seen Michael and Novalis, what else can we come up with? ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:59:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The once and future king - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > Elvis: Every king has his castle, every king has his > kingdom. Ha! Long live the King! (What do you mean which one? Does it matter?) ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:04:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Strange, even for a Habbalite - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Malkira > Habbalite Knight of the Winged Chariot > Angel of the Willing Victim Oh, this is evil! I like this piece. I do shudder to think what Andrealphus would've done with that Word, though. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:05:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Concrete Cuddlys - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > All in all, this one was chock full of concretey > goodness all around. :) Yes, for once we like it when somebody's "hard" on us. };> ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:02:50 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0C6A7.D5348180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Perry Lloyd To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, April 16, 2001 4:53 PM Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic = orders) >I'm surprised to see that Dominic has more votes than Laurence=20 >on the Offensive Council. In fact, I'm a little surprised to=20 >see him on th Offensive Counsil at all; he's not much concerned=20 >with prosecuting the War. He's Internal Security; it's angels=20 >he hauls up for judgement, not demons.=20 >=20 >Earl=20 It's out of the original game. I thought kinda odd too, but, I figure = that the Champion of the Catholic Church probably /would/ be on the = Offensive Council. Uh, in INSMV, there's a note saying that Dominic = will use his votes to break ties (as the other four Archangel's votes = /can/ tie). Doesn't say that's the only thing he does with his votes, = though. Also, I don't see Dominic as having interest in merely internal = affairs. I see him as being active in guiding the Catholic Church, as = well as being active in working with Laurence to locate Evil in the = world and bring it to an end, particularly through the police. Almost = always in my game the police of the city are Judgement supported, = typically with at least an angel of judgement present, if not with a few = soldiers for support. Also, Dominic is very powerful in my game, = (perhaps with good reason, as it's said that he has the /best/ Judgement = in Heaven :) and his opinion of the situation has a significant impact = on the PC's Archangel's.>> On the other hand, SG's IN is not INS/MV, so what happens in one game = might not apply in the other. Politics are definetly part of this, so = we have to deduce how IN's Seraphim Council operates through analysis of = how the American Game is build, not just overt Translation of the French = Game. If we apply the concept that Heaven is a Democracy (Which works, = considering Heaven is all about considering the needs of the community = over your own), then the Factions of Heaven are their Political Parties, = and the Archangels are their Political Inspirations.=20 Since we've never had indications that Heaven is build on the = triple-branched (Executive/Legislative/Judiciary) form of Democracy, = we'll assume it's Parliamentary based, with seats accorded primarily to = Trisagonist Seraphim (The ones most in touch with the Divine), with = exceptions most likely made for Archangels and important word-bounds of = other words.=20 If we still assume about 33 Seraphim sitting at the Council, we now = have to determine how they're given their positions. For simplicity's = sake, let's assume that every Word organisation nominates and elects = members of it's own Word for the Council, and that final entry into the = Council requires approval by a Majority vote of the Council itself. = Qualities looked for in Council members would include a willingness to = look beyond you Superior's Word and favor decisions beneficial to all of = Heaven, experience in dealing with political decisions and cross-word = interaction on a daily basis, and debating skill. =20 The Archangels themselves most likely don't participate on the = Seraphim Council for various reasons: One, only three are actual = Seraphim (Dominic, Michael and Litheroy*). Two, Their nature as Nigh = Omniscient embodiement of their Words makes it hard for them to think = "Outside the Box", as it were. So they leave the day-to-day political = maneuvering of Heaven to their Seraphic representatives, only being = called in on major Decisions in the War (such as the "Fall of the = Malakite" incident. As such, they act as a make-shift Executive Branch, = as a concensus of Archangels might be able to override a Council = decision. =20 *(Besides, I figure Dominic feels it's more Just for him to stay out = of the Politics of Heaven to make sure everyone plays by the rules, = Litheroy's too busy uncovering stuff to bother with the Council, and = since Michael debates like he fights, he probably thinks it wouldn't be = fair for everyone if he just took over the Council.)=20 When sitting on the Council, a Seraphim is expected to put aside the = concerns of normal Servitor's duties, and focus on solving problems = facing all of Heaven, by casting votes to reach a consensus decision. = Of course, one's decision making is affected by one's experience in the = Service of a Word: Seraphim of War always respond to a Demonic build-up = in an area by voting to send in Malakim, while Most Holy of Flowers are = more likely to vote for peacefully undermining the Demon's Infernal = influence in the area, while building up Heavenly Influence. This is = why debating and arguing the points are an important part of Council = decisions: swing votes and undecided voters are vital in getting a = decision finalized. =20 The Seraphim Council meets every few days (so as to let the Windies = get a change of venue every three days), to look over situations of = International Importance on Earth, resolving cross-words friction in = compromises, to make decisions in progression of the War, to approve new = Tethers and elect new Wordbound, and to make decisions in crisis = situations. =20 At least, that's how I see the Seraphim Council. =20 Your mileage may vary. -Exit the LoneWolf - ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0C6A7.D5348180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Perry Lloyd = <perrylloyd@hotmail.com>
= To:=20 in_nomine-l@lists.io.com=20 <in_nomine-l@lists.io.com>=
Date:=20 Monday, April 16, 2001 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: IN> Inner = Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders)



>I'm surprised to see = that Dominic=20 has more votes than Laurence=20
>on the Offensive Council. In fact, I'm a little = surprised to=20
>see him on th Offensive Counsil at all; he's not much = concerned=20
>with prosecuting the War. He's Internal Security; it's = angels=20
>he hauls up for judgement, not demons.=20
>=20
>Earl=20
 
It's out of the original game.  I thought kinda odd too, = but, I=20 figure that the Champion of the Catholic Church probably /would/ be on = the=20 Offensive Council.  Uh, in INSMV, there's a note saying that = Dominic will=20 use his votes to break ties (as the other four Archangel's votes /can/ = tie).  Doesn't say that's the only thing he does with his votes,=20 though.
 
Also, I don't see Dominic as having interest in merely internal=20 affairs.  I see him as being active in guiding the Catholic = Church, as=20 well as being active in working with Laurence to locate Evil in the = world and=20 bring it to an end, particularly through the police.  Almost = always in my=20 game  the police of the city are Judgement supported, = typically with=20 at least an angel of judgement present, if not with a few soldiers for = support.  Also, Dominic is very powerful in my game, (perhaps = with good=20 reason, as it's said that he has the /best/ Judgement in Heaven = :) and=20 his opinion of the situation has a significant impact on the PC's=20 Archangel's.>>
 
On the other hand, = SG's IN is not INS/MV, so what happens in one game might not = apply in=20 the other.  Politics are definetly part of this, so we have to = deduce how=20 IN's Seraphim Council operates through analysis of how the American = Game is=20 build, not just overt Translation of the French Game.  If we = apply the=20 concept that Heaven is a Democracy (Which works, considering = Heaven=20 is all about considering the needs of the community over your own), = then the=20 Factions of Heaven are their Political Parties, and the Archangels are = their=20 Political Inspirations.
 
Since we've never had indications that Heaven is = build on=20 the triple-branched (Executive/Legislative/Judiciary) form of = Democracy, we'll=20 assume it's Parliamentary based, with seats accorded primarily to = Trisagonist=20 Seraphim (The ones most in touch with the Divine), with exceptions = most=20 likely made for Archangels and important word-bounds of other = words.=20
 
If we still assume about 33 Seraphim sitting at = the Council,=20 we now have to determine how they're given their positions.  For=20 simplicity's sake, let's assume that every Word organisation nominates = and=20 elects members of it's own Word for the Council, and that final entry = into the=20 Council requires approval by a Majority vote of the Council = itself. =20 Qualities looked for in Council members would include a willingness to = look=20 beyond you Superior's Word and favor decisions beneficial to all of = Heaven,=20 experience in dealing with political decisions and cross-word = interaction on a=20 daily basis, and debating skill. 
 
The Archangels themselves most likely don't = participate on=20 the Seraphim Council for various reasons: One, only three are actual = Seraphim=20 (Dominic, Michael and Litheroy*).  Two, Their nature as Nigh = Omniscient=20 embodiement of their Words makes it hard for them to think "Outside = the Box",=20 as it were.  So they leave the day-to-day political maneuvering = of Heaven=20 to their Seraphic representatives, only being called in on major = Decisions in=20 the War (such as the "Fall of the Malakite" incident.  As such, = they act=20 as a make-shift Executive Branch, as a concensus of Archangels might = be able=20 to override a Council decision. 
 
*(Besides, I figure Dominic feels it's more Just = for him to=20 stay out of the Politics of Heaven to make sure everyone plays by the = rules,=20 Litheroy's too busy uncovering stuff to bother with the Council, and = since=20 Michael debates like he fights, he probably thinks it wouldn't be fair = for=20 everyone if he just took over the Council.)
 
When sitting on the Council, a Seraphim is = expected to=20 put aside the concerns of normal Servitor's duties, and focus on = solving=20 problems facing all of Heaven, by casting votes to reach a consensus=20 decision.  Of course, one's decision making is affected by one's=20 experience in the Service of a Word: Seraphim of War always respond to = a=20 Demonic build-up in an area by voting to send in Malakim, while Most = Holy of=20 Flowers are more likely to vote for peacefully undermining the = Demon's=20 Infernal influence in the area, while building up Heavenly = Influence. =20 This is why debating and arguing the points are an important part of = Council=20 decisions: swing votes and undecided voters are vital in getting a = decision=20 finalized.  
 
The Seraphim Council meets every few days (so as = to let the=20 Windies get a change of venue every three days), to look over = situations of=20 International Importance on Earth, resolving cross-words friction in=20 compromises, to make decisions in progression of the War, to approve = new=20 Tethers and elect new Wordbound, and to make decisions in crisis=20 situations. 
 
At least, that's how I see the Seraphim = Council. =20
 
Your mileage may vary.
 
-Exit the = LoneWolf
- ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0C6A7.D5348180-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:57:58 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) > I think that's because Perry has borrowed the Councils fairly wholesale from > INS/MV, where Dominique _is_ a major member of the war faction, and swings > more votes than anybody else does. Correct, Perry? > > Genevieve Fairly, yes, but I've merged the annex council into the other three (to make three - for the holy number). Also, I've chosen to include Michael, David, Novalis, and Jordi. SFAIK, the purpose of the Councils Three is be to organize the Archangels into smaller groups, by interest, for easier discussion of the issues. Also, individual councils of the Councils Three might take a vote, as a council, about whether or not to present an issue to Seraphim Council as a whole or to keep the issue within the council (and I'm not even sure this idea's thematically appropriate). - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. " - --Dick Cavett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:17:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Minor Choir (Michael) - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Well, I was going through my files, and I realized > that I hadn't done a Minor Choir lately. So, I > decided to do Mike's. Wow, I didn't know I had... oh, _that_ Mike. };> > Scipiah > (Quartermasters, Expediters) *#@%! Yet another brilliant idea that I didn't have! This is great stuff, and perfectly logical. Of course wars are run on logistics -- history has proven that time and again. My hat is off. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:19:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Discord - --- Maurice Lane wrote: > Wuhh-hunnh (Corporeal) Oh, what a post -- I'm all shook up! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:21:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> New Discord - --- Cameron McCurry wrote: > ooh! Another idea! At level 4 and higher, the one > afflicted must > break into song for engaging in combat. The Symphony > could even provide the background music. Oh, _thanks,_ Cameron. Now I can't get the image of a Nybbite with Soundtrack and Wuh-huh/6 out of my head. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2159 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.