From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Apr 17 16:09:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23275 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:09:24 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA02016 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:16:39 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:16:39 -0500 Message-Id: <200104172116.QAA02016@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2161 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, April 17 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2161 In this digest: Re: IN> Michael, Prince of Betrayal Re: IN> Minor game vignette... Re: IN> Minor game vignette... IN> With Sincerest Apologies IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" IN> In Nomine: Celestials in Disguise Re: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" Re: IN> The Fall of Magog IN> Trans-Nomine -veering to OT Re: IN> The unfortunate Malakite IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2160 IN> The Order of Pascifists Subject: Re: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" Re: Subject: Re: IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Archan-gels?= bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon =?iso-8859-1?Q?Prin-ces=22?= Re: Subject: Re: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" Re: IN> With Sincerest Apologies ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:13:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Michael, Prince of Betrayal Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Michael, Prince of Betrayal >I had an idea a while back that I never did anything >with - -- Anti-Nomine. The basic premise was to take >all of the Superiors and switch sides. Thus, all the >AA's would become DP's and vice versa. I didn't do >it because, quite frankly, it's too big a project for >one guy to take on without getting paid. However, >many hands make light the work. Anybody up for >another contest? We've seen Michael and Novalis, >what else can we come up with? Hey! Wait your turn. I haven't finished Draining dry some of these guys yet for the Tattered net.book. :) Moe Who's too busy to even _think_ about that Furfur, AA of Transcendance that's been in the back of his head for the last 6 months. ;) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:34:00 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Minor game vignette... Charles Glasgow wrote: > Me, I had the Soldier of God shoot the *player*. Hey, he'd just finished > giving her the lecture on the way over about how it was only a Vessel and > now Malakim don't even worry about the Trauma thing... and the Light of > Heaven burns away all lies, so when he wakes up back home his head will be > clear of the Balseraph mindjob. Even *if* it was an Infernal Intervention. > > Comments? Was I too easy on him? Or too hard? Sounds like a good solution, though I'd probably have had the Soldier either get killed or kidnapped by the Balseraph, forcing the PC to clean up after his mess when he returns. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:57:55 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Minor game vignette... >Charles Glasgow wrote: >> Me, I had the Soldier of God shoot the *player*. >> Comments? Was I too easy on him? Or too hard? Pretty harsh. I would have settled for shooting the character, myself. How did you get the bloodstains off the books? * * * * * Jason Schneiderman, Editor, EDITORIAL HUMOR. E-mail: edhumor@tiac.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:10:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: IN> With Sincerest Apologies I wasn't going to let this out. I really, really wasn't going to let this out. I swear, I was going to just let this rot way, way in the back of my brain where it would never hurt anybody. Then Moe posted. That's right, it's Moe's fault. Blame him. If grizzled List veterans like him can't restrain themselves from things like.... like.... like that *thing*, how are weak-willed newbies like me supposed to hold back the tides of darkness? (Thanks go to Mason Kramer for Christopher's reaction.) .......... Look, she *warned* you. Blandine is probably the single most overworked Archangel. Between keeping Hell from taking the Marches over and keeping the War Faction from turning the Marches into yet another running performance of the Song of Celestial Light in innovative new keys, she and her Servitors have their hands full and more than full. Backup is difficult (she's the only one with her expertise), schedules are overflowed and vacation is rare to nonexistent. And as anyone who understands basic organization will tell you, when overwork goes this far, things start slipping through the cracks. Besides, it's not like this one is surprising. Several Servitors of Lightning have said they're surprised it didn't happen sooner. Invariably, they're asked why the heck they didn't say something before. (Often in more colorful terms.) Equally invariably, they respond, with that painfully annoying perfect calm, that it was going to happen anyway and there was no reason to get people twitchy. Since, after all, this one is going to make a *lot* of people twitchy. .......... Think about it. Every day, millions upon millions upon millions of children get out from between their licensed mini-monster anime linens. After they change out of their licensed mini-monster anime pajamas (and, while they're at it, put on their licensed mini-monster anime backpack), they watch mini-monster anime, go to school and play mini-monster anime video games and card games, then come home, fire up their console game systems and play *those* versions of mini-monster anime video games. Everyone thinks the whole thing is rather believable, in hindsight. The conditions are absolutely perfect--heck, you can't *make* conditions more perfect than this. Several people really wonder, though, why Blandine didn't notice before the growth of the infestation became explosive. .......... Ethereal mini-monsters have infested the Marches and are showing no signs of slowing down. Every license, every show, every permutation-- all of them. Yes, even Tamagotchis, and let me tell you, black-and-grey Ethereals that pixelated look bloody weird. It's not precisely a serious problem for either Heaven or Hell--at least yet. What it is, at this point, is something that any Angel or Demon dealing with children has to take into account; the little critters are pervasive enough that there's nearly an even chance that a given child has contact with one. That's strange, annoying, and perhaps even amusing, but isn't really disturbing. The disturbing part is twofold. The first half is Collect 'Em All. You'll find out about that later. The second half is the fact that they're starting to show up on the Corporeal plane. This is going to worry people very fast. A child dreaming about a foot-high mouse that can generate a strong enough electric shock to bring down a water buffalo is one thing. A child bringing a foot-high mouse that can generate a strong enough electric shock to bring down a water buffalo to the mall is something else entirely. .......... Mini-monsters come in every shape, size, color and form that Nybbas' shriveled little heart dreamed of when he first came up with the Media version of the phenomenon. (It *was* Nybbas, right? Right?) However, they all share three things. First, they all want to be owned by a child. The play and companionship that invariably ensues is apparently where they get their Essence; the drain on the child is, usually, not severe enough to be a real problem for her. Second, they are all *fiercely* protective of their owners. Sure, the mouse is cute. Sure, the mouse is cuddly. Try to take little Jimmy's lunch money--or, for that matter, try to waltz into little Jimmy's dreamscape--and the mouse suddenly develops a personality that a pit bull terrier would take notes on. Servitors of Nightmares are starting to become distinctly less than amused by the increasingly real prospect of being chased across the Marches by animated stuffed animals... and children who are under the influence of Nightmare seem to disproportionately attract the things. Third. Heh. Third. .......... ATTUNEMENT (Ethereal): Collect 'Em All Whenever two Ethereals with this Attunement bond to a human, the Essence of the human is multiplied in the distribution rather than in the drain. In other words, the two Ethereals will each get Essence as though there were only one, and the human will also be drained as though there were only one. This attunement is transitive. Which is to say, it works for more than two. All of the mini-monsters have this Attunement. All of them. No, Ethereals are not supposed to work this way. Ethereals are *not* supposed to work this way. This Attunement is a primary reason that Jean has several of these creatures for observation (and wants more). (The Servitors who're printing up electric mouse mascot T-shirts are distinctly unauthorized, of course. Stop them? Why? That would be a needless drain on morale.) It's also a primary reason that Vapula wants as many as he can get his hands on to take them apart and see what makes them tick. The upshot of this attunement is that little Susie can support not just one, but many, *many* mini-monsters in her Dreamscape. Many ludicrously protective little monsters most of which have the ability to do things like throw lightning bolts and fireballs. Are you starting to get the idea that Beleth isn't happy about this yet? .......... So what do the Angels think? Blandine: They're making her job easier. This fact, shining like the holy, blazing beacon of love that it is, obliterates all other concerns. Did we remember to mention that Blandine is a bit overworked lately? Christopher: Has to catch 'em all. David: On the one hand, this encourages children to hide behind constructs of imagination rather than face their fear and be strengthened by overcoming it. On the other, David's no fool: this argument does *not* work when the child in question is under a direct assault, and the monsters have an odd ability to choose their targets. David has his suspicions... Dominic: On the side of containment, if moderated. There doesn't seem to be any ill effect to the current group of children, but these *are* Ethereals; things should be monitored thoroughly for a while before allowed to progress further. And the P-series are clearly the least objectionable. Eli: "So what do you get if you evolve *this* one with.... aw, you are a *cute* little guy, aren'tcha...." Gabriel: Wants to get all the fire-based ones together. Preferably in the general vicinity of the cruel. Multiple times. Khalid: The strongest advocate of containment, stopping just short of advocating destroying the ones already existent. There are many things that are good for children to trust to help them through dark nights. Bouncing balls of fluff are not among them. Janus: Wants to break the ban on Ethereal presence on Earth, cut loose every single one of the precious little things, and see what happens when they're introduced prominently worldwide in a matter of months! Of course, since Jordi actually showed up at a Seraphim Council meeting for no other reason than to scream at him for suggesting this, he's willing to go slow. Jean: Firmly on the side of containment until more is known. A close eye must be kept on the children who already have connections, more connections must be prevented wherever possible without cruelty, and more information *must* be gathered. Lightning is actively researching the phenomenon and the creatures themselves. Jordi: Not as hostile as you might think. Jordi's no idiot, and he's looking before making any rash decisions. The tykes love the little things. They actually, we're not kidding, *care* about the little things. And apparently the source material *encourages* this. Sure, it's insipid, but Jordi'd still love to leverage it for what it's worth. That's the good part. The bad part is what a small herd of electric mice could do to the top carnivores in any given ecosystem if this gets too far into the Corporeal... Laurence: Officially, they're Ethereals, yadda yadda yadda parasites yadda yadda yadda infestation yadda yadda yadda. Unofficially.... look. It's *tough*, okay? The thing's cute. It's cuddly. It's also, almost invariably, fiercely protective of its "owner" and much more afraid you're going to hurt him or her than it is for itself. *You* go Resonate it, come back, *then* tell me all about how you're gonna go get your Smite on with it. Leamealone. Litheroy: Compiling the indexes. Servitors of Revelation are using "middle aged professor" as a common look in the Marches these days for some reason... Marc: "So you're looking for an electric mouse? Sure, we can deal." Michael: Actually more or less on the positive side: they're hitting his soft spot for protecting the innocent very nicely. And the D-series are clearly doing the best job of it. Novalis: Not as friendly as you might think. Sure, they're cute and cuddly, but there's a lot of violence inherent in the motif. She's taking a wait-and-see attitude at the moment--as long as no noises about children getting hurt start getting very loud, she's going to be cautiously fine, but if things start looking *remotely* ugly, she's going to be one of the first on the side of.... contain.... stop it. Stop looking at her. *Stop* looking at her with those huge soulful anime eyes, darn you, she's getting her one chance to be the surprisingly stern voice of practicality and here you are making her want to go awww and pick you up and rub your tummy, *shame* on you... Yves: Just smiles. Zadkiel: They're minimally dangerous, if at all, to the children. They love the children. The children love the They're able and willing to do things that get the source material rated TV-Y7 (V) to people who threaten the children. What, exactly, is the problem here? .......... So what do the Demons think? Alaemon: Find out the entire matrix of statistics of each and every one of the little things. And make sure *nobody* else does. Sure, it's small potatoes, but something to occupy the newbies is always good. Unless it makes them too good. Then there's a problem. Hmm. Maybe try to throw some variance into things. Or seed some false information. Fake indexes might be good.... except make sure that the demons making the fake indexes all think they have the real ones, and that all the others are fake, except the ones who know theirs are fake, but think the real one's the one over there, when in fact... Andrealphus: Mostly just rolling his eyes. Though some of the creatures from some of the paradigms have distinct possibilities.... Asmodeus: "Let's see. All the different elements have different attributes and all the different monsters have their own individual attacks and weaknesses and that's not even getting into how things work across the different paradigms and if you want to do this *right* you have to remember it *all*, and obviously if you don't something's deeply wrong with you... this has possibilities. Call me back when you figure out how to get rid of the voices. The voices just have to go." Baal: Something along the lines of "....make it go away.... please just make it go away....". We don't know the details. The last guy who tried to talk to him about it's still in Trauma. Beleth: Abject hatred. One of the things in the Marches is a joke. One in a child's Dreamscape with the subconscious support of the child is much more of a problem. Five in a child's Dreamscape, which is not an uncommon occurrence, are a *problem*.... Belial: Wants to get all the fire-based ones together. Preferably in the general vicinity a largely wooden city. Fleurity: Quietly checking to make *sure* he didn't accidentally get too close to the last batch. Furfur: Trying to pull together an older group of monster-owners to wreak havoc, disrupt others and wear leather outfits. Well, *someone* had to. Haagenti: Mmmm. Monsters. They're a little surly about digesting, though. Kobal: Do you *mind*? He's busy planning. Kronos: "DON'T.... MENTION.... THEM." "Happy place.... happy place.... I'm in my happy place...." Lilith: "So you're looking for an electric mouse? Sure, we can deal." Malphas: They're wonderful, of course! But it's too bad about that kid who thinks his are better than yours.... you can show him, though, can't you? Mammon: You have to collect all of them. *All* of them. Nybbas: Life.... is.... good. Saminga: Oh, it's wonderful. Children watching monsters fight each other to the death, like.... wait. What? What do you *mean*, none of them are actually able to kill each other? What is this "fainting" crap? Where's the blood? Where are the horrible tragic deaths? Where are the piled-up fluffy bodies of these chubby bouncy reincarnations of the cockfight? Isn't *anything* sacred? WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO!? Valefor: Has to catch them all. (From somebody else.) Vapula: "So what do you get if you combine *this* one with.... No, no, no. Wrong, wrong, wrong. It should have the ferocity and the feral nobility of--it's cuddling my leg. Someone stop it from cuddling my leg, please. All I asked for was one frickin' dragon and the lab's the FAO Schwartz support group WOULD SOMEONE GET THIS THING OFF MY LEG!? Now, has anyone gotten any better results? Throw me a frickin' *bone* here, people...." .......... So what's really going on? One of two things. Either Nybbas has outfoxed Eli, or Nybbas has *tried* to outfox the old man and gotten himself an education. Eli figured out a bit back that Blandine was about ready to snap. So he told a couple of Servitors to see if they could do something about it. The mini-monsters were, originally, their idea. Nybbas, of course, got hold of it long before it went truly mainstream. Instead of killing it, though, he added his own... special touch. The result has elements of what both intended. Obviously, the genuine protectiveness and bond between monster and owner is what Eli's crew was going for. Equally obviously, the explosive number of minimally different concepts leading to dilution of the creativity involved, and "coincidentally" promoting mindless collection of everything related to the concepts, is what Nybbas threw in. On the one hand, Nybbas may have succeeded. It may be that we're about to see an entire generation turn into even more of a bunch of jealous, petty, merchandise-grabbing drones than the Media's managed to make too many kids lately. On the other hand, Nybbas may have bitten off more than he could chew when he tried to pervert the concept instead of kill it. Eli's not even remotely new at this: he was the patron of writers and storytellers of all kinds for eons before Nybbas smiled his first plastic smile. It may well be that what Eli's writers intended to convey will get through the noise Nybbas put around it. Blandine is already getting her help, after all. The Archangel of Creation may even have been *counting* on Nybbas' machinery to blast the concepts all over the world--and betting that he wouldn't see clearly enough to kill the parts of them he really needed to kill. He should have known there was a problem when Marc's opposition seemed distinctly half-hearted... If and when this comes out, obviously, the reaction's going to be decidedly mixed. Season it to taste: Dominic at least, and possibly Laurence, will probably be more than slightly peeved that Eli encouraged Ethereal activity this openly. The war faction will generally be at best bemused, minus Michael, who'll find the bank-shot of using Nybbas to help out Blandine rather pretty. The peace faction will be guardedly optimistic--the critters *are* violent, but relieving Blandine is a goal that's difficult to argue. Hellside, Nybbas is facing a lot of trouble if he doesn't pull this out, and fast. He's *officially* supposed to mercilessly slaughter anything that might remotely be influenced by Heaven, after all. Asmodeus is watching... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:34:59 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" God bless you Moe. HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA It's a pity Oannes is dead or he could wear a sailor's white cap and have a parot perpetually hanging on his shoulder. and what is with Yves and his new fascination with trucking? - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:36:13 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: IN> In Nomine: Celestials in Disguise > Sparky could even > deal with the fact that, due to Princely Fiat, all > Servitors of Cob... Technology have to fix the default > color of their Celestial Songs of Light to red. ROFLMAO! And now, for an encore, it's time for ... "IN NOMINE: Celestials in Disguise" You see, when the diametrically opposed cosmic forces of the good Autophim and the evil Deceptibolicals came across the fascinating planet called Earth, they decided that they best try to fit in with the local populace, to better carry on their War in secret. However, they made some slight mistakes when calculating just how to design their vessels, taking the various vehicles of the planet to be the local life-forms. The TransCelestials, being techno-cosmic beings themselves, were much more familiar with machine-life and totally ignored the carbon-based lifeforms. So, disguised as cars, airplanes, helicopters, bulldozers, and big rigs, they brought the War to earth, fighting across the entire surface of the planet. The Autophim were led into battle by the inconquerable Seraph Prime, the first TransCelestial created by the great All-Spark, known to his soldiers as Michaelus. In turn, the Deceptibolicals followed the maniacal Kronotron (imagine a crazy mixture of Baal and Kronos), a complete megolomaniac, who's second-in-command was the backstabbing DarkScream (Kobal, to play on the whole Kobol-Kronos rivalry), who talked in an incredibly annoying high-pitched voice, thought that he should really be in charge, and (unfortunately) also possessed indestructible Forces. Of course, in their eternal conflict, the TransCelestials often found the need to change from their vehicle vessels and "go Celestial" into their more powerful angelic and demonic forms. Over time, a few very observant and annoying humans managed to discover the secrets of the War and were made into Soldiers in the Autophim's unending battle with the Deceptibolicals. Unfortunately, Michaelus Prime was tragically destroyed in a fatal battle with Kronotron that left the noble TransCelestials without a leader. However, after a long period of grief and setbacks, the young warrior LaurRod used the First Seraph's heart to light their darkest hour, taking on the mantle of leadership and becoming Swordimus Prime. Uniting around Swordimus, the Autophim were able to defeat the cosmic threat of UniLegion, a Deceptabolical that was able to possess an entire mechanized planet as a vessel. And there began the turnover, as a new Second Generation began to emerge among both factions of TransCelestials ... and the War went completely downhill from there. - --- Sigh. Aren't 80's cartoons wonderful? I bet Jordi likes "Beast Wars" much better though. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:49:46 -0500 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" >Of course, then we'd have to switch Laurence from Duke to Flint, which makes >more sense, actually, as Flint was a Warrant *Officer* and outranked Duke, >who was the crusty career Master Sergeant. > >What I want to know is, who'd be Serpentor? Let's see. Evil. Snaky. Megalomanic. Has the battle tactics of several world famous generals from throughout history. I imagine Baal would fit the bill nicely. * * * * * Jason Schneiderman, Editor, EDITORIAL HUMOR. E-mail: edhumor@tiac.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:39:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Fall of Magog Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:13:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Fall of Magog At 10:02 PM -0700 4/14/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >>> From: "Charles Phipps" >>> Subject: IN> The Fall of Magog >>> grace and I need to clear some ideas with you all. >>> >>> 1:) Do angels suffer dissonance for "evil" actions? > >>"Evil"? Not in canon. Violations of their Word or >>Choir nature (or deliberate perversion of the >>latter)? Yes. The two don't always match up. :) >[...] > >looks up> > >On a quick read-through, my only answers are: "What >Moe Said." "Yes, Grasshopperiel, when you can snatch Canon rulings out of the Line Editor's hands ... then, you will be ready." ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:49:33 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> Trans-Nomine -veering to OT Damn you Mr J Walton. Just as i finished watching the half dozen vids i had and started to ponder the various autobots/decepticons in to choirs and bands you post this. Damn you to a happy happy place i say. Now, If somebody would be good enough to continue this and post various well known 'bots as IN charecters.... Yes i appologize for the OT leanings, but now im gonna have to watch the vids all over again. BumbleBee-Cherub Powerglide-Malakite with an ego (and a half) hmm... ideas for dischords.... Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:45:48 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> The unfortunate Malakite - -----Original Message----- From: Janet Anderson To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: 17 April 2001 16:52 Subject: IN> The unfortunate Malakite >No, I think that's a perfect solution. Malakim are supposed to go through >vessels, anyway. >I seem to remember a similar thing happening in a piece of fiction (written, >I believe, by Genevieve Cogman), where a Malakite under ethereal influence >was threatening his companions and the Elohite of War shot him. Yes -- poor old Faber was under the influence (of Ethereals rather than alcohol, for once) and Caliah (the Elohite) shot him before he could symbolically repeat the legend that they were replaying. http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/caliah9.html for those who are interested. Thanks for remembering. ;) Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:07:32 EDT From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2160 Casca asked: <> You see, that's the first adventure. The servitors of Vapula are running around the world with special equipment to secure the forces of specific remnants. On the list of remnants, we have: Oannes Vephar Legion Raphael Makatiel Beezelbub Gebbeleth Mariel Sloth (forgot the name and don't have the books at work) Rapine (ditto) And, then he will create...the ULTIMATE PRINCE! (Not to be confused with the person who is no longer squiggle.) Depending on your game, you could add Song, Magog, the AA of Death, and Uriel to that list. Sam who won't get into the five or six servitors of Vapula with robot vessels that combine into one huge robot vessel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:11:02 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Order of Pascifists >And the problem with this one is that as described, it crosses what I >consider the line between moral pacifism and immoral pacifism. To whit, >while it may be alright to not use violence to resist evil, you must at >least resist it in SOME form if you are moral. In this case there was the quote of Ghandi which said that nonviolent means to resist a foe are only useful as long as a foe truly cares whether or not you live or die. To this end Hell probably for a great deal qualifies as one of these foes. However the Order of Pacifism represents an extremely right wing (or left wing) approach (depending how you look at it it's very liberal or very very conservative) to God's beliefs in setting an example for nonviolence. They're not supposed to have all the answers and probably in many ways supposed to be wrong, after all human beings wouldn't kill each others if on some level they couldn't justify it or see another option. The OoP is basically supposed to advocate though the entire war as it's being done a mistake and it's prosecution is only making matters worse. >You noted some of them would >just stand there rather than even temporarily harm someone machine-gunning >kids in front of them; even Novalis would do SOMETHING, stop up the gun or >put Song of Shields over the kids or similar acts, no matter how "harmful" >that might be to the shooter. If they truly advocate not interfering with >demonic activities the way described, they are effectively assisting the >demons in their mission. More importantly from the angelic perspective, >they are putting their beliefs ahead of their duties this way with such a >blanket refusal to use violence (even Novalis reluctantly expects you will >resort to violence against demons if it is truly needed (her Dissonance >conditions are flexible on that point for a reason)). I'm well aware of the fact and the Order of Pascifists has on occasion actually lost a member of their branch to falling. These rather radical angels usually become servitors of Kronos or Andrephalus (and usually being Elohim to begin with) they form the belief Heaven and Hell should just "get along" and bring mortals to their fate by INACTION in the presence of evil. I'm reminded of a story on someone's page about a soldier of Hell....whose now just a damned soul in Hell (I can't remember whose...however it had the redeemed belial I think) where the man discusses how they got into Hell and one man says that while he was very church going, he didn't help a man who was dying of a car accident because he was afraid of getting AIDs. Still they are angels so I imagine even those who won't interfere will still try and talk the person down and will willingly stand in front of the weapon and take the bullets (hopefully finding some method to get them away). They'd all be outcasts if not for the fact they can be extremely creative in how they don't do violence. >Whether or not angels >truly have free will, they are made to obey the commands of the Superiors >put lawfully above them by God and the Host, and even the easiest-going >Superior by God DEMANDS obedience from their Servitors. Every being in >Heaven remembers a certain Archangel of Light who declared "I will not >serve", and none of them would ever put up with even the slightest example >of an angel following in those footsteps. Any angel who put their desire >for pacifism as high as these fellows could expect Outcasting at best (let >them see how they like it if nobody helps them out when they're in >trouble). Destruction is quite likely, especially if they did actually move >from words to actually sitting by while a demonic atrocity occured (heck, >even Novalis might pull the plug if it was truly sickening). Don't overestimate, the order is meant to be controversial but while Michael considers them (and I remove the lanquage) complete fools I honestly believe Yves would support their efforts against violence on Earth, Blandine their efforts in the Marches an on Earth for peaceful dreams, and Novalis in general the idea violence is absolutely positively not at all an option.... It disturbs yes Novalis that they consider her "as a last resort" a bit problematic but seriously her Seraphim can't do violence period...what sort of order would they belong to? Yet they can still stop violence. My own personal belief is that Violence is and of itself always wrong and I'd probably never come into a situation in this life where I'd find a situation where killing is warranted in my mind but the Order of Pascifists is just a brainchild of trying to create an interesting order for angels to follow in. >*ahem* > >That directly contradicts the flat statement "I came not to bring peace...". Yet he did nontheless, peace as the result of the destruction of evil. - -Charles Phipps as a minister not the Order of Pascifists as a perspective Turn your cheek and give a man all your clothes when he asks for your shirt. it's basically a philosophy of great understanding and complete unconditional love for one's man. The Order of pacifists in and of itself officially believes there has to be a better way to prosecute the War and to that end it basically means ditching battle as a whole period. For some it's a question of morality where they don't want to hurt people whove never known the Light of Heaven or friends who've felt abandoned, for others it's a matter of extreme terror (imagine you were an angel for 4 billion years serving Raphael...and now...SHE'S GONE) and the belief the War is destined to destroy all that they have struggled for so long to build, and for others it's a question of objectivity that a few sterling examples of extreme sacrafice and morality might improve a lot of humanity more than any large scale groups. and to what you said standing by and watching people die rather than take teh necessary step WILL get you permanetly kicked off corporeal duty;why because it IS wrong. It's an age old question though whether the necessary step is killing not necessarily attack...for the Order is meant to be radical and just as divided as the rest of heaven. I think it's one of my best creations - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:30:22 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Subject: Re: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" Eric Bertish > > What I want to know is, who'd be Serpentor? Saminga. Here's the checklist [x] Raging megalomania [x] Bad fashion sense [x] Terrible dialogue [x] Completely insane [x] More-intelligent underlings who loathe him [ ] Is an undead horror produced by pulp superscience Only the last is debatable; Saminga became a Prince through studying evil Egyptian necromancy, and Serpentor was resurrected from the genetic code of history's greatest tyrants. This isn't quite the same thing, but IMO is close enough for government work. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:50:48 GMT From: prodigal@ticnet.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Archan-gels?= bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon =?iso-8859-1?Q?Prin-ces=22?= Krishnaswami, Neel writes: > > Saminga. Here's the checklist > > [ ] Is an undead horror produced by pulp superscience > > Only the last is debatable; Saminga became a Prince through studying > evil Egyptian necromancy, So he gained his position through pulp superscience, at least. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:06:33 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" >From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" > > What I want to know is, who'd be Serpentor? > >Saminga. Here's the checklist Works fine, except for the fact that Moe already established Saminga as ol' CC himself. Hmm.. Malphas makes a fine Zartan, methinks. Especially since Z was reputed to be such a master of disguise that he was at least partially Schizophrenic. ... though I could also see a point made for Kobal, as the Dreadnoks become wonderful vehicles for satirizing other princes. Torch: Belial Ripper: Furfur Buzzsaw: *drawing a blank* Road Pig: Haagenti That loser Mad Max-wannabe with green streaks in his hair: *blank* - -- Casca Yo Joe! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:06:05 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> With Sincerest Apologies I have to say, I especially love this one, but I have a few comments to make. - -----Original Message----- From: Matthew B. Gerber To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:21 PM Subject: IN> With Sincerest Apologies >Khalid: The strongest advocate of containment, stopping just short of >advocating destroying the ones already existent. There are many things >that are good for children to trust to help them through dark nights. >Bouncing balls of fluff are not among them. Considering that many Muslim countries have banned ANY form of Pokemon whatsoever, condemning them as Demonic monstrosities, I'd have to say Khalid should probably be already advocating their destruction, followed by a Jihad against Nybbas. > >So what do the Demons think? > >Andrealphus: Mostly just rolling his eyes. Though some of the creatures >from some of the paradigms have distinct possibilities.... None of you have ever checked out Pokemon/Digimon inspired Hentai, have you? *Shudders* Trust me, you don't WANT to know what Andrealphus makes Mini-Monsters (and their trainers) do when he wants to "play"... >Baal: Something along the lines of "....make it go away.... please just >make it go away....". We don't know the details. The last guy who tried >to talk to him about it's still in Trauma. > >Beleth: Abject hatred. One of the things in the Marches is a joke. One in >a child's Dreamscape with the subconscious support of the child is much >more of a problem. Five in a child's Dreamscape, which is not an uncommon >occurrence, are a *problem*.... > >Belial: Wants to get all the fire-based ones together. Preferably in the >general vicinity a largely wooden city. > >Furfur: Trying to pull together an older group of monster-owners to wreak >havoc, disrupt others and wear leather outfits. Well, *someone* >had to. > >Kronos: "DON'T.... MENTION.... THEM." "Happy place.... >happy place.... I'm in my happy place...." > >Saminga: Oh, it's wonderful. Children watching monsters fight each other >to the death, like.... wait. What? What do you *mean*, none of them are >actually able to kill each other? What is this "fainting" crap? Where's >the blood? Where are the horrible tragic deaths? Where are the piled-up >fluffy bodies of these chubby bouncy reincarnations of the cockfight? >Isn't *anything* sacred? WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO!? > >Vapula: "So what do you get if you combine *this* one with.... No, >no, no. Wrong, wrong, wrong. It should have the ferocity and the feral >nobility of--it's cuddling my leg. Someone stop it from cuddling my leg, >please. All I asked for was one frickin' dragon and the lab's the FAO >Schwartz support group WOULD SOMEONE GET THIS THING OFF MY LEG!? Now, has >anyone gotten any better results? Throw me a frickin' *bone* here, >people...." As for these guys, I see them having a time of depression over this for a while, before Furfur's efforts turns on a light inside their heads, and they go "Hey... If these things obey Humans, why don't we make the HUMANS make those Monsters do Evil?" Let's look at it this way: The only reason most Kids really listen to grown-ups is because Grown-ups are bigger then they are, and physically able to retrain them when they want to do something. With Mini-Mon, however, the balance of raw physical power shifts to the children, not the adults. To put this in perspective, Imagine the Columbine Shooting... with a Charizard. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2161 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.