From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Apr 18 16:58:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24607 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:58:18 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id RAA18344 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:05:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:05:46 -0500 Message-Id: <200104182205.RAA18344@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2164 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, April 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2164 In this digest: Soul-killing Re: IN> Gurps IN suggestion -- Vessels and DR... Re: IN> With Sincerest Apologies IN> SEARCHING Re: IN> With Sincerest Apologies IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." Re: IN> In Nomine: Celestials in Disguise Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." Re: IN> Gone to Graveyards 2: "Gone to Soldiers" Re: IN> Jean's training ground *Warning silliness ahead* Re: IN> Celestial "matter" Re: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" Re: IN> Gone to Graveyards 2: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Gone?= to =?iso-8859-1?Q?Soldiers=22?= Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) Re: IN> Gone to Graveyards 2: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Gone?= to =?iso-8859-1?Q?Soldiers=22?= Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." Re: IN> Gurps IN suggestion -- Vessels and DR... Re: IN> Getting a Tan in GIN (was: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2145) Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." Re: IN> With Sincerest Apologies Re: IN> Fwd: some questions need answered please Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." Soul-killing (was Re: IN> Gurps IN suggestion) IN> Khalid, to Elo or not... (Re: With Sincerest Apologies) Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) Re: IN> Celestial "matter" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:46:04 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Soul-killing Re: IN> Gurps IN suggestion -- Vessels and DR... (The important note about Soul-Killing in GURPS is at the end) >Ah, yes, and how I note it. :) Still, the Ugh Smash Bashh Shoot /should/ >probably buy up his HT if he's going to be going up against Ug Smash Shoot >Demon with HT 20. He's a *Malakite*. He can *afford* to run through Vessels in rapid succession, whereas his demonic opponents can't. (Besides, he's planning on buying at least DR 3 on his Vessel... and Guns (Rifle)-21 or so... and some really good telescopic scopes.) [snip] >Well, yeah. But -HTx5 for HT 20 is -100, meaning they've taken 120 points >of damage. That's A LOT of damage. Remember, there are no blow-through caps on hits to the brain, and a x4 damage multiplier. Remember also that the blow-through cap for Vitals hits isn't base HT but is HTx3, and that any respectable celestial marksman can get three-round bursts into the vitals all day long. With a 6d damage 7.62mm rifle. Remember also that there is *no* blow-through cap for shotguns (each 1d being applied separately), and that there are 5d damage autoshotguns out there with ROF 3+. That's an average of 52.5 hits of damage per round, assuming three torso hits on an unarmored foe. Assuming three *vitals* hits, that's 157 hits in one round. Three Hellsworn with 12-gauge magnums, one turn to aim, and coordinating fire can blow a 20-HT angel away before he can say "Jack Robinson", if he don't see it coming. Gurps high-tech combat vs. high-HT foes rapidly turns into a war of really fast obliterations. When PCs are fighting for survivals, they fight like a combination between crazed weasels and corporate rules lawyers. (And given that the celestials will be doing their level best only to shoot *each other*, even giving them lots of worry about Disturbance won't entirely prevent this. I'm feeling lucky that I was able to talk them into taking Roles where they can *only* get SMG's and rifles, as opposed to RPG's, satchel charges, and anti-vehicle mines.) [snip] >Well, yeah, sounds like that won't work IYC. Instead, something much much >more frustrating for the players can happen: The bad guys come back. Oh, >yeah, you may have vaporized the corpse, but . . . we're immortal, >remember? Whoo-hoo!!! Give the villians a few days to come out of Trauma, >and they can be back on Earth in no time, baby. To quote the infamous Dave Bosworth -- "Oh, is that all? Hey, we killed 'em once, we can do it again." (KODT reference.) *g* Admittedly, yes, that's what's going to happen. Provided, of course, that the demons managed to avoid hostile Superior attention for failing their mission and ending up in Trauma. >So, that probably means that the PCs will want to start Soul-killing them. > >hee hee hee . . . Soul killing in GIN, like that can ever actually >(reliably) happen to a character who's IQ is 14 or higher. "Lost Soul hits may result in shock and stunning, similar to corporeal damage." -- G:IN, p. 145 So unless somebody creates an advantage called "Celestial High Pain Threshold" (or rules that normal High Pain Threshold applies to Soul hits), all of those Will rolls to avoid taking Soul damage are being made at a penalty equal to the # of Soul hits you took that turn. Remember, if you take X amount of damage in a turn, then all rolls that turn are being made at -X to your IQ and DX... that's what 'shock effects from damage' *means* in GURPS-speak. So when you take 8 Soul Hits in a turn and that kicks you over the threshold where you roll vs. Will to avoid celestial damage, then that's Will-8 you're rolling at. Celestial combat *is* pretty darn fast... you simply have to follow a strategy of nick, nick, nick, stunning blow (or celestial grapple), wind-up, *POWER ATTACK*. (From what I can interpret it, if Celestial combat works just like Brawling, then unarmed combat skills work in Celestial form, no? Time to haul out the Maneuvers List, as well as Karate, Judo, etc.) With that in mind, plus the fact that the corporeally wimpy Malakite of Judgement is also a celestial combat machine (IQ 20!!! Good God, even with his measly ST, he's still wrecking things really awfully in celestial combat... largely because of his liberal use of called shots to places that really hurt...) Errr, >Just FYI, I *seriously* recommend purchasing Will and Perception >separately. Errrr... mechanism? How do that work? (While I do have experience DM'ing both GURPS and In Nomine, none of us have ever played GURPS IN before. Only three of us, including me, have played regular IN before. Only two of us, including me, have played GURPS in any form before. So I'm trying to start off without being overly complex while still fixing what I perceive to be bugs.) >I have a .doc GIN character sheet if you're interested. It's what I use >IMC. I could even HTML it for, you, man. :) Sure, send it over via e-mail. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:07:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: Re: IN> With Sincerest Apologies On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Maurice Lane wrote: > You aren't, thankfully. I _Loved_ this one. The Superior reactions > especially: they seemed to ring pretty true, although I'd agree that > Khalid probably hates this one a bit more than listed. Thankyou. :) > Well, if he _could_ allow himself to have such a subjective reaction, > he would. Not that objectivity issues were considered important when > they decided on the AA of /Faith's/ fragging Choir... > Sorry. Venting. Hmm. Khalid, as portrayed here, as an Elohite, just doesn't fly with me either. (S)he flew pretty well as a Bright Lilim (and I do hope you realize just how much that terrifies me even as I type it). But as an Elohite, the character just doesn't work. OTOH, *an* Elohite Archangel of Faith... Let me check my notes. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:09:42 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: IN> SEARCHING Hi Could anybody point me to the write up of aballam please? i swaer i have seen it some where but i cant find it for love nor cookie icecream. It is REALLY urgent. I know that soem one is gonna post one version to the list real soon and i'd like to do some pre-checking on the other write up. Thanks in advance *waves @ FallenSeraph* Cas _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:47:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> With Sincerest Apologies On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Cameron McCurry wrote: > Here's another idea on evil uses of the little critters.. > > http://www.inktank.com/images/cartoons/02-23-01.gif http://www.pokethulhu.com - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is _the best_. -- Frank Zappa, "Packard Goose" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:53:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." I'll be more or less out of touch for the next few days (gonna go see some pandas), so I thought that I should come up with something special. I _will_ be checking this digest from time to time, so please: no death threats, unless they're amusing. ;) Moe The Ring Yes. Such a little thing, to make so many Superiors scream. The Ring, at first glance, is not much to look at: it's a plain gold band of metal that will easily fit on any humanoid's finger. Regular attempts to determine its composition or powers will fail: aside from that, and the fact that no force known on any of the three planes can put a dent into it (before you ask, no, not even Gabriel's Volcano), you'd never know that it was a relic at all. The Ring is a relic, though: in fact, it's _the_ relic. To begin with, it's not gold. It _looks_ like gold on the corporeal plane (on the celestial plane it's blindingly bright) only because it has to look like *something*, and something turned out to be gold. What it actually is made up of are pure Forces. Actually, every Force ripped from an angel during the Rebellion. *Every single one of them*. You see, the Symphony wasn't set up to handle that much celestial combat at the time, so it dealt with the sudden influx of Forces by mashing them together, binding them and spitting out ... The Ring. The Ring is thus unique ... and tinged with madness and death and evil to the very core. It's literally too dense with thrumming power to analyze, and nobody on either side particularly wants to get anyone close enough to try. You see, just because the thing doesn't look insanely powerful doesn't mean that it isn't insanely powerful... Any one who puts on The Ring will detect one effect immediately: his, her or its Forces (this includes Word-Forces, incidentally) and Characteristics double. Normal limits are thrown out the window. The user also has access to _every_ Song known to at least one of the entities whose Forces now make up The Ring: considering that the Metratron's Forces (and some of Lucifer's, courtesy of his savaging by Michael) are in this thing, that pretty much means that the user has every Song known before the Fall at level/6. _And_ all their Attunements. _And_ all their Rites. _And_ all their Distinctions. However, they may not be able to use them right away. There are several abilities that seem close to the surface, as it were (the Songs of Light, Charm and the Corporeal Song of Entropy) are notable examples), but to use anything else the user must make an Will Roll at -20. Each successful evocation of a Song or ability gives a cumulative +1 to all future attempts to evoke that Song or ability _only_. Lastly, words cannot describe the Essence capacity of something made out of millions of angelic Forces. Practically speaking, nobody has the force of will to coax more than about (10x total Forces), though. That's per day, by the way. However, all of this comes with a price. Every week that the user wields The Ring, roll 666: on a 8 or less, the user gains one level of the Celestial Discord: Megalomania (not covered in canon, but fairly obvious; also, it's a Celestial Discord that doesn't interfere with Essence gathering) or Need: adulation (when those hit level/6, substitute your favorite Evil Overlord Discords). The user will usually also develop Paranoia. The Ring also seems to be attuned to the Word of Control (a Word _never_ given out by Heaven or Hell): the user gains the equivalent of (2x current special Discords) Word-Forces, with special abilities and Rites to match. The only one that got this far was Legion (how he got The Ring is a mystery: the beyond-Damned thing seems to have developed a malevolent intelligence all its own), which is one reason why Raphael was so ready to do a suicide run. The assembled Superiors didn't even try to destroy it by then (it had never worked in the past): they just severed Legion's arm at the shoulder, dumped concrete onto it, let it set, did all sorts of strange and Superior-level bindings onto the block and dumped the entire acre of land into the Volcano (the last time Belial and Gabriel were seen cooperating on _anything_). Anyway, presumably the Damned thing's still down there. Presumably. After all, it _is_ impossible to detect. Having it show up in your campaign would be... Well, it just wouldn't be very nice of you. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:18:40 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine: Celestials in Disguise At 12:08 AM -0400 4/18/01, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 9:12 PM -0400 4/17/01, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>At 1:36 PM -0400 4/17/01, Jonathan Walton wrote: >>... >>>The Autophim were led into battle by the inconquerable Seraph Prime, the >> >> Okay, okay, that's it, THAT'S IT. It's time to find what Fleurity >>got into the water... > >What Fleurity? It's the snow. The implacable *snow.* It's snowing >right now! Again! Because it had finally started to melt, and we >can't have that! No no, we can't have *that!* AHHHHHHHHHH! (Yeah, me too.) >(We live too close to a Janite Tether. Sometimes the Weather throws >us into chaos.) I dunno -- maybe it's Crocell, Prince of Cold... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:05:19 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 3:53 PM Subject: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." [snip] > [...]. The assembled Superiors didn't even > try to destroy it by then (it had never worked in the > past): they just severed Legion's arm at the shoulder, > dumped concrete onto it, let it set, did all sorts of > strange and Superior-level bindings onto the block and > dumped the entire acre of land into the Volcano (the > last time Belial and Gabriel were seen cooperating on > _anything_). Anyway, presumably the Damned thing's > still down there. And the reason they didn't just chuck it up Jacob's Ladder was *because*...? (From the description, it can be carried safely, at least for a minute, so long as you don't actually put the damned thing on and claim its power for your own. So find yourself a blessed soul, handing him one end of a very long rope, tying the Invinciblium(tm)-sealed box to the other end, and telling him to start up them stairs and yankin' on that rope after him wouldn't have worked because...?) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:13:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Gone to Graveyards 2: "Gone to Soldiers" > The loss of the > Archangel of Flowers had left an emptiness inside the > Prince of Lust that could no longer be ignored. Andy violating his (her?) own Dissonance condition? Niiiice. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:16:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Jean's training ground *Warning silliness ahead* - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: > > No kidding. I mean, Michael was in shock for *twenty > years*? Damn, she sure must be *SOME* kisser! Well, maybe that's why we should say it with Flowers. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:16:46 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial "matter" >On the celestial plane, there's lots of stuff that fulfills the same role, >and with many of the same properties as mundane matter in the corporeal >plane. > >Where does it come from? > >Created by the will of Superiors? Brought up from the Corporeal? Available >at GM fiat? or what? I believe I have seen somewhere that it is just pure Essence that is shaped according to the whim of a Superior within his own Cathedral. The other "stuff" in Heaven is probably just mass produced by Celestial consciousness to make Heaven appear more "Earthly" and "Comfortable" to Celestials who have to shift back and forward between the two realms a lot. I've tried creating Heaven as totally alien from Earth, but it is just to much effort when the campaign takes place mainly on Earth anyway. How do Seraphim pick up books?, How does a Cherub drink the coffee he can't lick up? All of these questions are best left unanswered as far as I am concerned as a GM. The more time spent explaining Celestial stuff that can't be quantified by a Song is just too much of a headache. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:19:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "Archan-gels bat-tle to de-stroy the evil forces of ... the De-mon Prin-ces" - --- Charles Glasgow wrote: > Oh, come on. Prince "I never let myself look visibly > distressed or > surprised even when I'm actually totally flabbergasted" > Asmodeus simply > *cannot* be ol' "I rant, I rave, I chew scenery, I throw > temper tantrums > that make Cobra Commander look like Optimus Prime" > Serpentor. OK, I'll give you that one. But Vapula as Destro? Please, Kronos has the chrome-dome concession all sewed up. Beleth as Pythona, on the other hand... now that's casting. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:19:40 GMT From: prodigal@ticnet.com Subject: Re: IN> Gone to Graveyards 2: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Gone?= to =?iso-8859-1?Q?Soldiers=22?= Michael Walton writes: > > The loss of the > > Archangel of Flowers had left an emptiness inside the > > Prince of Lust that could no longer be ignored. > > Andy violating his (her?) own Dissonance condition? > Niiiice. Thank you. The places this thing are going are starting to make my brain hurt in that reading-Moe kind of way. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:19:39 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) (on occasion, Dominic -- ethical understanding) Perhaps, yes. Pity we won't have an AA of Justice as well. Judgement is, imho, very subjective. What? Like Faith? *cowers in fear as the Khalid arguement comes into view again* Good thing DOMINIC is NOT an Elohite! :) Alex _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:23:59 GMT From: prodigal@ticnet.com Subject: Re: IN> Gone to Graveyards 2: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Gone?= to =?iso-8859-1?Q?Soldiers=22?= Btw, where is the Bronwyn writeup posted? I need to re-read that, since I'm currently considering giving her another appearance before I'm done with all these. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:16:45 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." At 4:05 PM -0500 4/18/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: > > >And the reason they didn't just chuck it up Jacob's Ladder was *because*...? > >(From the description, it can be carried safely, at least for a minute, so >long as you don't actually put the damned thing on and claim its power for >your own. So find yourself a blessed soul, handing him one end of a very >long rope, tying the Invinciblium(tm)-sealed box to the other end, and >telling him to start up them stairs and yankin' on that rope after him >wouldn't have worked because...?) Because you don't send your problems to God. If He wants to get involved, He'll get involved. If not, you don't try to force Him. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:51:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Gurps IN suggestion -- Vessels and DR... At 9:15 PM -0500 4/17/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >OK, something else I noticed in GURPS: IN, which we've just started up >around here as a conversion from regular IN... > >Vessels die too damn fast. After experiences with an HT 13 character (GURPS Space) and a 144 Body Hit Balseraph (not in the same game), I staunchly insist that that's a FEATURE! I mean, geeze, we sideswiped the Bal with a van and he Still Didn't Go Down, Darnit. (Though the Kintaran with HT 13 took 14 hits of damage in one blow (darn nunchucks) and didn't go down for a pretty long time herself, and even then, it was unconsciousness...) >Vessel/x just became an advantage again. Each level of Vessel costs 5 >points. And each level of Vessel gives you one point of DR, usable vs. all >attacks. What's wrong with racial DR? Isn't that something like 2-5 points per level, these days? O:> (I don't remember if it's 2, 3, or 5. I'm pretty sure it's not 4, though.) >Comments? I'd just let them take up to 6 levels of DR at the "Racial" costs instead of the "Toughness" costs, myself... O;> Or give celestials the advantage of No Vitals, perhaps. (Just tack it onto the rest of the mongo advantages they get and forget about it; I am SOOOOO glad that we didn't try to stick with Everyone Has The Same Number Of Points...) Perry's suggestion of Hard to Kill is pretty good too. O:> (And yes, I am listening; I need to run more games of my own, darnit... I need to get s'more people interested in my Friday Afternoon proposed game.) At 1:55 PM -0700 4/18/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>> body or cut off your head, just to make sure.) >> >> Problem is, that's exactly what will happen. >> Likewise here... if we just rely on high HT and Hard To Kill, what happens >> then is you simply hear a lot of "He's down? OK, I take my Flaming Sword >> and cut his head off to make sure." >oh. hee hee that's funny. >speaking of Flaming Swords, note that Reliquaries are only half a point per >level in GIN (GINpg169-170), This may be errata'ed soon -- there were a few bugs when we went from "Everyone has Essence based on Fatigue so they have double Essence" back down. A lot of numbers got halved without someone looking closely to make sure that they were being halved correctly. I _believe_ Reliquaries are now 100 Essence per level to enchant... >which my players have taken full advantage of (like, our Bright Lilim has 10 >reliquaries, grin, 5pts baby, hell yeah!) No kidding... Watch out for high-Perception demons spotting them! At 6:46 PM -0400 4/18/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >>hee hee hee . . . Soul killing in GIN, like that can ever actually >>(reliably) happen to a character who's IQ is 14 or higher. > >"Lost Soul hits may result in shock and stunning, similar to corporeal >damage." -- G:IN, p. 145 Optional; note the _may_. O:> (On the other hand, if Soul-killing is difficult, using this is probably a good idea, neh?) >So unless somebody creates an advantage called "Celestial High Pain >Threshold" (or rules that normal High Pain Threshold applies to Soul hits), (I sure would.) >all of those Will rolls to avoid taking Soul damage are being made at a >penalty equal to the # of Soul hits you took that turn. Remember, if you >take X amount of damage in a turn, then all rolls that turn are being made >at -X to your IQ and DX... that's what 'shock effects from damage' *means* >in GURPS-speak. HUH? That's sure not how _I'd_ interpret the rule. I mean, unless it makes soul-killing at an acceptable level in your game, I'd point out that the roll to avoid damage is an _"AGING"_ roll, and therefore not affected by recent damage. His Will-based rolls to _attack_ are going to be sucky, which means that he's going to be having trouble on that front, of course. But the aging roll... Nonononononononononono, the recent damage done does NOT affect that in canon, far as I'm concerned. I'll ask Kromm for his take on it, too, if you want. O8/ - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:50:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Getting a Tan in GIN (was: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2145) At 4:24 AM -0400 4/18/01, Perry Lloyd wrote: >Interesting. In GURPS In Nomine celestials have levels of Temperature >Tolerance. (So, puttering around in the old playtest files I re-unearthed a while back, did original IN/SJG celestials, only not phrased that way.) >I wonder if levels of Temperature tolerance would prevent you >from getting a suntan or sunburn (since it's infrared/heat waves). Nah -- Temp Tolerance doesn't block damage from a hot poker. You don't get sunstroke from overheating, but you can burn just fine. Unless you're an Ofanite of Fire, mind. Them, hey, I figure that they're paying enough, they don't sunburn if they don't want to. Least, that's how I'd figure the rules. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:56:26 -0500 From: "John Walter Biles" Subject: Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." On 18 Apr 01, at 16:05, Charles Glasgow wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maurice Lane" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 3:53 PM > Subject: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." > > > > [snip] > > [...]. The assembled Superiors didn't even > > try to destroy it by then (it had never worked in the > > past): they just severed Legion's arm at the shoulder, > > dumped concrete onto it, let it set, did all sorts of > > strange and Superior-level bindings onto the block and > > dumped the entire acre of land into the Volcano (the > > last time Belial and Gabriel were seen cooperating on > > _anything_). Anyway, presumably the Damned thing's > > still down there. > > And the reason they didn't just chuck it up Jacob's Ladder was > *because*...? > > (From the description, it can be carried safely, at least for a minute, so > long as you don't actually put the damned thing on and claim its power for > your own. So find yourself a blessed soul, handing him one end of a very > long rope, tying the Invinciblium(tm)-sealed box to the other end, and > telling him to start up them stairs and yankin' on that rope after him > wouldn't have worked because...?) > I'd suspect anything as tainted as that couldn't be taken up the ladder. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu http://www.dkcomm.net/rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "That all princes shall kiss the foot of the Pope alone."--Dictatus Papae, 11th century ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:36:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> With Sincerest Apologies - --- Cameron McCurry wrote: > Here's another idea on evil uses of the little > critters.. Ooookaaaaaaay... Moe, I take back everything I said about you being sick and twisted. Next to that, you're positively normal. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:00:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: some questions need answered please At 5:59 PM -0700 4/17/01, Kish wrote: >From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > ><I thought it was, darnit... > >Okay, aside from the Restricteds, there aren't any major changes. O:>>> > >Actually, to contradict myself...yes, there are. The Habbalite of Death >attunement is changed now. If that's not in the errata pages, I'm going to have to hit someone. 'Scuse me, gotta go hunt someone up. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:39:50 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Whistling in the Dark" To: Cc: "Charles Glasgow" Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:16 PM Subject: Re: IN> "Hi, my name is Moe, and I have no shame." [snip] > Because you don't send your problems to God. If He wants to get > involved, He'll get involved. If not, you don't try to force Him. Who's forcing anything? I'm merely putting the most dangerous object in the universe in the one place where it's *absolutely guaranteed* that nobody from *either* side can get their little mitts on it... and then come back downstairs to hurt anybody with it. For all I care, it can lie -- unattended -- at the top of the Ladder outside God's office door for the rest of time, and he can ignore it all he darn well pleases. Just so long as it's /Not Down Here Where Any Idiot Can Potentially Get His Hands On The Thing/. When the prize for failing is Legion II, and that little only if you're *lucky*, then it's *irresponsible* to do less than the absolute best you can think of -- no matter what the risk of censure to yourself. And especially not if the motive for doing so is "I didn't want to risk having it appear that I was asking my Superior for help." And when you're planning to keep something safe for a nigh-infinite amount of future time, a microscopically small chance of eventual failure might as well be the same thing as a certain chance of failure... eventually. As created by its author, the continued existence of this thing is designed to be a problem utterly beyond the reach of any Superior or even a concerted group of them to ever truly solve. The best that can be settled for is containing the thing well enough to have only occasional, as opposed to continual, outbreaks of the universe's next nigh-unstoppable Superior-munching power-crazed Superior-wannabe. And if it were me, I wouldn't let that happen until I'd exhaused *all* possible options -- even the ones that have other people going "No, no, too presumptuous, you might get in real trouble for trying it." - ------- "Kinnison slumped down in relief. He had not known what to expect. He would not have been surprised if the Arisian had pinned his ears back; he certainly did not expect either the compliment or the clear-cut answer. He knew that Mentor would give him no help whatever in any problem that he could possibly solve alone; he was just beginning to realize that the Arisian *would* aid him in matters which were absolutely, intrinsically, beyond his reach." - ------- _Second Stage Lensman_, E.E. "Doc" Smith, p. 100, Pyramid paperback edition, 1965 - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:50:44 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Soul-killing (was Re: IN> Gurps IN suggestion) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: Re: IN> Gurps IN suggestion -- Vessels and DR... > >all of those Will rolls to avoid taking Soul damage are being made at a > >penalty equal to the # of Soul hits you took that turn. Remember, if you > >take X amount of damage in a turn, then all rolls that turn are being made > >at -X to your IQ and DX... that's what 'shock effects from damage' *means* > >in GURPS-speak. > > HUH? That's sure not how _I'd_ interpret the rule. I mean, unless it makes > soul-killing at an acceptable level in your game, I'd point out that the > roll to avoid damage is an _"AGING"_ roll, and therefore not affected by > recent damage. Will is based on IQ + Strong (or - Weak) Will. If you're making every single roll that turn at an IQ minus that turn, then that base penalty to your IQ also drops your will score. Besides, think about it. As I see it, the game effect of that Will roll to avoid Celestial damage is represented as you gritting and hanging on with all your willpower, trying to make that Force *not* got sheared off of you by sheer determination. Via sheer concentration, you are concentrating on holding your self-image and soul together, consciously holding your celestial guts it, even as somebody else tries to rip them out. Wouldn't a Will roll like that suffer a penalty, the more damage you're taking that round? After all, logically speaking -- if you get smacked with an ST 20 Calabite's Super-Death Specially-Augmented Flaming Sword upside the head for 20 Soul hits, that should be a harder Will roll to make to avoid taking damage from than a 1 Soul-hit grazing shot from a reliever's Celestial Song of Light that just happened to take off your last Soul hit. Yet according to the rules as currently written, that's not how it works... being celestially smacked with a Celestial Wave Motion Gun isn't really any different from being smacked with a Celestial Love-Tap... just a straight Will roll after your last Soul hit goes, no matter how crushing or how wimpy the attack that turn was. ??? To borrow from non-IN GURPS for an analogous situation... As I understand it, if you're making a Will roll to resist a psionic attack in the same turn that you happen to take damage from another source, you'd either better have High Pain Threshold or else prepare to take a Will roll penalty equal to the damage you just ate. After all, the whole point of making Celestial Hit Points and "HT" rolls based on Will as opposed to HT was to represent the fact that physical toughness was only for Vessels, right? In the Celestial plane, it's *all* about how much mental grit you have and how hard you can concentrate... and the way GURPS always represented that before, sudden pain really messed up the ol' concentration unless you had the right advantages. > His Will-based rolls to _attack_ are going to be sucky, which means that > he's going to be having trouble on that front, of course. But the aging > roll... Nonononononononononono, the recent damage done does NOT affect > that in canon, far as I'm concerned. Hopefully, the above will persuade you otherwise. Not that it matters either way to my campaign -- the house rules here are what I say they are -- but just because I honestly think it works better the other way. (After all, Celestial combat as it is right now is really a long-winded joke... you dance around forever like DBZ characters and nobody ever really gets hurt, barring Interventions. Celestial combat ought to be avoided because it's the last resort of Major Risk, not avoided because it's boring, lengthy, and devoid of useful results.) > I'll ask Kromm for his take on it, too, if you want. Can ya forward this to him as well? Thanks! - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:08:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Khalid, to Elo or not... (Re: With Sincerest Apologies) At 9:14 PM -0700 4/17/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Well, if he _could_ allow himself to have such a >subjective reaction, he would. Not that objectivity >issues were considered important when they decided on >the AA of /Faith's/ fragging Choir... Hey, take it up with Derek Pearcy! At the time (this being before I was LE), I was suggesting that he should be a Cherub, myself, so that the "dissonant behavior" that he was engaging in could be phrased as unhealthy obsession (sliding toward Djinn, see)... (It was noted that with Zaddie in the works at the time, that there would be a lot of Cherub Archangels (her, Chris, Blandine, Novalis) already. Seraphim were pretty thick on the ground as well at the time, considering Litheroy's addition. And I can't think of any other Choir off the top of my head that would work for "potentially dissonant behavior, sliding toward the Pit" that had to be there for the plot. (I wasn't even a playtester when The Plot was decided on, either. Nyahh!)) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:11:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Inner Workings of the Seraphim Council (Was: Angelic orders) At 1:01 AM -0400 4/18/01, William J. Keith wrote: >The Elementals > >David -- the still >Oannes -- the flowing >Janus -- the nimble >Gabriel -- the swift Now, now, clearly Janus is The Windy and Gabriel is The Firey.... Oh, you didn't snag a starter box of _Cardcaptor Sakura_.... Hey, what can I say; I like CLAMP stuff. Game looks like it might play fun, too. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:17:58 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Celestial "matter" At 6:04 PM +0100 4/18/01, John Dallman wrote: >I'm probably failing to find something in the books, but I can't see it in >IN or H&H. > >On the celestial plane, there's lots of stuff that fulfills the same role, >and with many of the same properties as mundane matter in the corporeal >plane. > >Where does it come from? > >Created by the will of Superiors? Brought up from the Corporeal? Available >at GM fiat? or what? Okay, this needs to go into the FAQ... Currently, there is no mechanism given for these. My prefered not-yet-canon description of them is "Essence constructs." Essentially (pun not intended), they are things (presumably made of Essence in a process akin to Abracadabra) which have a celestial-only existance. Like a relic without the ability to be corporeal. There are ways to create them (probably via Songs) which are easy and economical, which the GM is free to mess with as he or she pleases. This is what celestial Stuff is made out of, and where it comes from, and why humanoid celestials can still have clothing when they go to celestial form. (Yes, this would imply celestial-only weapons being used in celestial combat by apparently unarmed celestials. Life's tough, get your own celestial longsword, and don't assume an unarmed Michaelite is ever really unarmed.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2164 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.