From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Apr 23 08:00:53 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03179 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:00:53 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id HAA17546 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:52:08 -0500 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 07:52:08 -0500 Message-Id: <200104231252.HAA17546@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2174 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, April 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2174 In this digest: IN> Re: Hail mary Re: IN> Not-So-Evil Thoughts IN> Disturbance Question Re: IN> Disturbance Question Re: IN> Disturbance Question Re: IN> Re: Hail mary Re: IN> hail mary... Re: IN> Whisper not the name of Madness... Part Two Re: IN> Disturbance Question Re: IN> Ethereals in Celestial combat (Was re: IN> Soul Killing a Remnant) Re: IN> hail mary... Re: IN> hail mary... Re: IN> Disturbance Question Re: IN> Disturbance Question It's so hard. (Was Re: IN> Not-So-Evil Thoughts) IN> I'm back... and with a Superior Victory in tow. IN> New Tether Re: IN> I'm back... and with a Superior Victory in tow. IN> In Nomine : Preacher Re: IN> I'm back... and with a Superior Victory in tow. Re: IN> Ethereals in Celestial combat (Was re: IN> Soul Killing a Remnant) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 12:53:17 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: Hail mary Well as a minister to be in the Bible Belt (you'd not believe the controversy down here for those who arn't located. I actually believe my call came from God in order to help resolve it's that bad) I can tell you that religeous controversy is alive and well because it's being driven and in a seriously unhealthy manner. However I don't think that's really why Christian historical figures are absent in In Nomine in a prominent role. Allow me to reiterate... (1) Jesus in Heaven French In Nomine where he's a wise cracking spoiled son of the "Boss" whom the other archangels can safely ignore JUST the tiniest bit because he's a complete allows Jesus to be portrayed as a figure who won't disrupt the average campaign of In. However in a game where one really wants to be a serious discussion of good/evil and respectful of the man's message... The question is a bit more difficult. Michael never disobeys God and in my interpretation and many other, this basically would mean the Big J would be the defacto leader of Heaven with no one disobeying him. The Big Guy's wisdom would smoothe over all relations in Heaven and the War would be fought probably with much less violent means if not ditched entirely to excorcism. A bit of difficulty for an RPG, Jesus said what you do in one's thoughts is doing in one's reality but I think he's willing to let me slide for the 100,000,000 orcs I've slain in RPGs. (2) Muhammed, Mary mother of God, and the Apostles It's one of my largest gripes that my brethren down South can't open one's hearts to the possibility Muhammed drank from the same trough (so to speak) as the rest of the prophets of God but I can understand their reluctance even as most Sunni muslims are reluctant to accept the idea that there could be prophets after Muhammed (in fact exactly believing the opposite in an affirmation). Now with the Big J just sitting there reading a book as the Archangel of God (Metropolis is the book-any takers on why I chose it?) Muhammed of course could just say "Oh well I was wrong" but it also eliminates the intriguing aspect of Dominic and Gabriel's relationship even as it clears up a bit of Yves's mysteriousness. Plus it lessens Khalid's act of Faith in believing without fail muhammed was God's chosen greatest messanger. Mary in all likelihood is either in the Higher Heavens or a really pleasant saint but if she's not an Archangel (her position in Catholic reverence is enough for that) then she and the "Boys" (as i call the Apostles) really arn't probably going to be doing that much. Plus Dominic would be standing outside her house (many mansions in Heaven, recall?) trying to figure out how to politely broach a certain question.... 3:) Evil This is going to sound bizzare but theres also the playing demons aspect. No one wants to be acknowledged really as being fundamentally on the wrong side and bringing up other beings one likely respects as foes such as the Apostles or Moses pretty much sets up that the wicked are going to have their arses handed to them. That's why Dominic, Jordi, and other angels exist...flawed beings we can challenge not too badly. *** In Nomine is a game of mystery as well as Revelation and while I wish the section regarding famous soldiers wasn't cut from the Pyramid article (listing King David as a Soldier of Stone and other fun aspects). I still think that it has to portray heaven NOT as the ending of all mysteries but the beggining despite the fact in reality it's probably the end of it. Also again, the corporal folks in the Bible play a very great role but it's located in a single region in a very short (compartively speaking) point in time. Having Samson a Saint of War still kicking butt is an intriguing concept but I'd hate to see it in canon. He'd probably be hanging around John the Baptist looking for a certain demon from David Edelstein's webpage too. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 09:55:31 -0700 From: edenesque@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Not-So-Evil Thoughts My choice would be Haagenti, just because he doesn't seem very deliberately malicious, and he does seem to genuinely care about some beings (Kobal and Fleurity, but hey, you're got to start somewhere).<<< Most likely? Vapula. He searches for the meaning of God after all. Sooner or later that would drive him towards either Redemption or a lot of dissonance and soul-death at Asmodeus (and possibly Dominic's) hands. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 14:19:11 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Disturbance Question This is part of our PBEM but one of our characters is possesed of a very potent one use artifact (yes it's a HHG but it's not made in antioch) and threw the device in the middle of 20 demons in celestial form that were standing there gloating over our soon to be complete destruction. I'm trying to figure out the disturbance if say all of them are killed as part of a joke... and whether or not every archangel and demon Prince in Heaven and Hell is going to bolt up their head and wonder what in the blazes THAT was (I think 20 demons instantly soul killed is about equivalent to a minor superior dying, how about you?). - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 14:09:56 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Disturbance Question - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Phipps" To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 1:19 PM Subject: IN> Disturbance Question > and whether or not every archangel and demon Prince in Heaven and Hell is > going to bolt up their head and wonder what in the blazes THAT was (I think > 20 demons instantly soul killed is about equivalent to a minor superior > dying, how about you?). I thought that disturbance only happened if you damaged something that was *part* of the Symphony -- i.e., a corporeal object, a plant, an animal, a human, a Saint, an undead... As far as my understanding goes, the only way to damage a celestial and still cause disturbance is to be using a Song or conscious Essence expenditure in the process. Now, if that was twenty *Hellsworn* he was blowing up... - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 19:13:34 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Disturbance Question Hmm, mass amount of death... well, saminga would look in, or send in some one to look, as would i think baal, and michael and laurence may well just zoom streight there, asmodeus and dominic may well send in a squad to see if there are any survivors to put on trial for endangering the whole of the effort to keep the war all hush hush from humanity, also, if they were celestial in a corporeal location, well, the location would also be majorly affected. Thats what i think, well, thats what the voices in my head tell me i think. Toodles Cas *we gladly feast on those who would subdue us* >From: "Charles Phipps" > >This is part of our PBEM but one of our characters is possesed of a very >potent one use artifact (yes it's a HHG but it's not made in antioch) and >threw the device in the middle of 20 demons in celestial form that were >standing there gloating over our soon to be complete destruction. > >I'm trying to figure out the disturbance if say all of them are killed as >part of a joke... > >and whether or not every archangel and demon Prince in Heaven and Hell is >going to bolt up their head and wonder what in the blazes THAT was (I think >20 demons instantly soul killed is about equivalent to a minor superior >dying, how about you?). > >-Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:15:31 -0400 From: Mason Kramer Subject: Re: IN> Re: Hail mary > Mary in all likelihood is either in the Higher Heavens or a really pleasant > saint but if she's not an Archangel (her position in Catholic reverence is > enough for that) then she and the "Boys" (as i call the Apostles) really > arn't probably going to be doing that much. Plus Dominic would be standing > outside her house (many mansions in Heaven, recall?) trying to figure out > how to politely broach a certain question.... "Will you marry me?" Man, I never would have seen the two of *them*.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 20:11:06 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> hail mary... >Basically, as far as I understand it, their existance is linked with that >of Jesus, to a large extent -- and Jesus Christ's nature is CDaU. So I >can't really see what else there is to say about them. That's what I thought, and in my opinion this is as it should be. To quote my father, among others, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:36:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Whisper not the name of Madness... Part Two On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 10:23 PM -0400 4/20/01, Rev. Pee Kitty wrote: > >This needs to be clarified more. "Insanity" in IN is generally a Discord > >(or Disadvantage). I'd suggest something similar to the table in G:IN > >(a wonderful table, I must say)... > > Table? Discord Table? I can't find this in my copy of GIN. (Do > you mean the GURPS Basic Set's Fright Check table? Love that thing, I do.) > Or was I looking in the wrong place? The Geasa table, which has you add together the difficulty of the Geas + the duration and get a final level for the Geas... great table. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! A crash reduces Your expensive computer To a simple stone. -- Sony Vaio-PC Haiku ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:39:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Disturbance Question On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Charles Phipps wrote: > This is part of our PBEM but one of our characters is possesed of a very > potent one use artifact (yes it's a HHG but it's not made in antioch) and > threw the device in the middle of 20 demons in celestial form that were > standing there gloating over our soon to be complete destruction. > > I'm trying to figure out the disturbance if say all of them are killed as > part of a joke... Zero. You can blow away demons all day long, and the only disturbance you'll generate is from collateral damage. > and whether or not every archangel and demon Prince in Heaven and Hell is > going to bolt up their head and wonder what in the blazes THAT was (I think > 20 demons instantly soul killed is about equivalent to a minor superior > dying, how about you?). Well, no, not even close. (Twenty demons dying == Minor Superior dying? C'mon... maybe two HUNDRED.) But it'll make the same amount of disturbance, sure enough - none. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! Some people desperately want to be a a part of the crowd. Some people are special; they stand out in a crowd... And then there's the ME PHI ME - WE STAND ALONE. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:21:10 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals in Celestial combat (Was re: IN> Soul Killing a Remnant) > >And since Ethereals *can* participate in Celestial combat (a) can they enter > >heaven and/or hell, and (b) if not, why not? > > A: not in canon. > > A.5: It is probably theoretically possible that a Superior could either > help one in with personal attention to maintaining the "life support," > or show a Song-of-Projection'ed one around. > > B: the angels say it's because they don't have _real_ souls (just some > Celestial Forces); the Tsayadim (sub-catagory of angels) say it's because > they're imPure; the ethereals say that it's because Yaweh closed off his > Ethereal Domain (that he calls the celestial realm) to those other ethereals > who were not of his own making (i.e., angels). hee hee hee, remind me to tell you about my first In Nomine campaign sometime . . . - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:17:41 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> hail mary... > > well. When Americans can grow up and learn to be tolerant of religious > > beliefs other than their own (not all Americans, jeez), > > Even with the disclaimer, I find that statement offensive. America > certainly doesn't have a lock on religious intolerance. > > -David Uhhh . . . I did say problems with my statement should be related to me off-list. To clarify, I was speaking of the United States because the game is a U.S. game and SFAICT, it was released to a primarily U.S. market. There was no intentional exclusion of other countries/cultures on my part ('cause NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!) because I might think that the U.S. has the only culturally intolerant culture in the world (because its not), but because I was speaking of the possible reactions the U.S. population (or small, vocal parts thereof) might have to the game if it were to include "heretical" takes on Jesus and other biblical figures, especially because the U.S. already has a history of religious groups speaking out against ("satanic") role-playing games. - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "While public school history courses in the United States stress the horrors of the German Nazi murder of 6 million Jews and Josef Stalin's pogroms against racial minorities and political dissidents in the Soviet Union, the facts that the U.S. Army's solution to the 'Indian Problem' was the prototype for the Nazi 'Final Solution' to the 'Jewish Problem' and that the North American Indian Reservation was the model for the twentieth century gulag and concentration camp, are conveniently overlooked." - -- Jonathan Ott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:18:32 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> hail mary... > > well. When Americans can grow up and learn to be tolerant of religious > > beliefs other than their own (not all Americans, jeez), maybe we'll be able > > to be mature about these sorts of things. > > Careful, Perry. Yer slipping into dangerous territory with that sentence. > -:-) Yes, yes, yes I'm, oooooh, living on the edge. > > Until then, really . . . yeah. We'll suffer from the blind ignorance of the > > culturally illiterate and religiously egocentric inconsiderate people whose > > fear of being incorrect > > merely further Blinds them in their pursuit of Truth. > > I prefer the Calvin and Hobbes quote on the matter. > Hobbes: "Do you believe in God?" > Calvin: "Well SOMEONE'S out to get me." ha ha ha . . . I like that. - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "I used to think it was terrible that bad things happened to people who didn't deserve them, but then I thought 'wouldn't it be worse if we knew we deserved all the bad stuff that happens to us?' so now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe." - Geraldi, Babylon 5 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:22:41 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Disturbance Question > > and whether or not every archangel and demon Prince in Heaven and Hell is > > going to bolt up their head and wonder what in the blazes THAT was (I > think > > 20 demons instantly soul killed is about equivalent to a minor superior > > dying, how about you?). > > I thought that disturbance only happened if you damaged something that was > *part* of the Symphony -- i.e., a corporeal object, a plant, an animal, a > human, a Saint, an undead... Wait. If Celestials aren't part of the Symphony, then how do Words and Attunements work? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:26:40 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Disturbance Question > This is part of our PBEM but one of our characters is possesed of a very > potent one use artifact (yes it's a HHG but it's not made in antioch) and > threw the device in the middle of 20 demons in celestial form that were > standing there gloating over our soon to be complete destruction. > > I'm trying to figure out the disturbance if say all of them are killed as > part of a joke... > > and whether or not every archangel and demon Prince in Heaven and Hell is > going to bolt up their head and wonder what in the blazes THAT was (I think > 20 demons instantly soul killed is about equivalent to a minor superior > dying, how about you?). > > -Charlemagne Well, first off, Soul damage doesn't Disturbance the Symphony. However . . . each of those Demons had a Superior, and each of those Superiors had a connection to his lacky, which was *suddenly* removed (and his Heart was suddenly shattered). This would be an anomly (sp?) because normally the Demon Prince would just notice that one his Demons is starting to lose forces, if that. This might cause each of those Demon Princes to *send someone* to investigate the situation. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 14:28:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew B. Gerber" Subject: It's so hard. (Was Re: IN> Not-So-Evil Thoughts) On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Kish wrote: > Which Demon Prince do all of you think is /most/ likely to redeem, and > why, other than Lilith? (Lilith being excluded just because her > differences from the other Princes are so obvious that the "why" part > of the question is likely to be too simple.) Nybbas. It's so hard, you know. It started out simple. Control the easiest means of mass information distribution. Ensure that everything that comes across it is pablum of one kind or another, spun or twisted or "written" to seem interesting and lively, to say good things and have good messages, but in fact meant to keep the monkeys in their place, fat and happy and docile. But it started to go wrong from the very beginning. Television scripts are often called "teleplays", you know. There's a reason for that. The closest thing to movies and to television was the stage, so naturally, concepts traversed from the older to the newer. This was a problem for you. This was a very big problem. Plays were older than you. Plays had great traditions to draw from, things that made Humans ponder and laugh and weep and *think*, and when Humans think bad things start happening. Plays were his. His. Don't think too much about that. Keep smiling. You're dependent on Humans, you know. You're dependent on them to a degree Andrealphus, one of your closest partners, can never understand. Andre taps and corrupts one of the greatest, most primal drives; as long as Humanity exists and is Fallen to the slightest degree, his Word will endure. You don't have that luxury. What you want from Humans, you have to take. There's nothing instinctual in the Human mind that makes them it and watch moving pictures. You have to cre--make the desire. You have to take from them. You have to convince them they should give you what you want. It's so hard. Because the problem is, and you learned this early on, peo--Humans won't just watch anything. It has to be new. Sure, for awhile Humans would sit around and watch test patterns, because that was new. But it got old. Then they'd sit around and watch the same jokes time after time, because they were new. But they got old. Now, to get them to watch, you've got to have the new gimmick. So you keep moving, constantly. Make it as superficial as possible so they don't have a lot to think about. Because when they think, bad things start happening. But you have to keep moving. Things have to be cre--innovative. Constantly. It's so hard. And you can't always keep the things that are coming through from being what they're not supposed to be. That part really scares you. They're making Humans think. And when they think, bad things start happening. And even some of the things you thought wouldn't make them think are, and you're *sure* you checked them. You're positive. Your best Demons were assigned to check them. And sometimes things you didn't want to get through still get through. Marc's become good at that, lately. And it's worst when he does something. It's so hard when he does something. He. Don't think about him too much. Keep smiling. Don't.... think about him. *Don't.* Don't think about the fact that to get peo--Humans to stay tuned and pay attention, what you do must be new. In some way, even if it's silly, even if it's corrupted, even if it's perverted, it has to be *new.* Everything else fails, nothing can get you away from that one, solitary, blazing, damnable fact. It has to be new. Don't think about where that puts you. Don't think about the fact that, if he wished, if he thought to wish, your Word would be his toy. Don't think about the fact that you thrive, you *exist*, solely because of how scattered and unfocused one of the oldest, strongest beings in all Cre--all the universe is. Don't think about how wide and deep the shadow you stand in is. Don't think about the fact that you can't step out of it, you can *never* step out of it, you have to walk the line constantly, because without the new, without him, Humans would stop watching. And if they stopped watching, you'd be dead. It's so hard. Really, really don't think about the fact that sometimes he seems to act. To come where you live. Directly. Don't think about those things that seemed to be perfectly innocuous. Don't think about the thousands upon thousands of books that are still published, that Humans still read every day, despite everything you've tried to do to the form and its content. Don't think about that covered wagon in space that helped inspire a generation to stand tall and shake the heavens, no matter what you managed to do to it after. Don't think about the fact that out of the thousands upon thousands of things you do that dull the mind and dim the spirit, the peo--Humans who want to dream still find the ones that make them dream. It's so hard. And most especially.... most especially of all.... don't think about the fact that you don't know why you fight it anymore. If you thought, bad things would start happening. Keep smiling. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:39:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> I'm back... and with a Superior Victory in tow. Crikey, you guys were busy. Anyway, I'm wading through stuff, and I'll _try_ to comment on stuff, but if there's something that any of you actually _want_ my opinion on (bizarrely egotistical as that sounds), you'd probably be better off emailing me privately and drawing my attention to it. Anyway, moving on ... the Dizzy City trip gave me an idea or two, and I'm passing them along. Some Jordi stuff (hey, _you_ try looking at pandas and not think about Jordi) to start. As always, enjoy or not. It's all good. :) Moe If you can't beat them, join them. As the twenty-first century dawned, Jordi was starting to become desperate. Species were regularly going extinct, habitats were going away left and right, and the ecosystem was finally starting to show the strain from the number of humans on the planet. The Archangel of Animals was ready to look for a desperate solution, when one was handed to him on a silver platter. Influenza-Calcutta 2009 was a nasty example of the disease: it had (using only corporeal treatment, of course) a 40% fatality rate, knocked survivors flat for at least three weeks, and laughed at normal containment methods. Better (or worse) it had a variable incubation rate (anywhere from one week to a month), making normal quarantine procedures insanely difficult. The resulting pandemic would scythe through the human population: the best case scenario postulated the complete collapse of most human medical infrastructures, with all that that entailed (including additional plagues that would erupt, due to the lack of any organized countermeasures). The worst case suggested that the human population would stabilize at somewhere around half a billion (if that). Most importantly, the only ones who knew about the oncoming disaster were Jordi's own Servitors. Jordi doesn't like to talk about how much he was tempted to simply keep his mouths shut about the entire thing and Let Nature Take Its Course. Maybe he would have done something about the upcoming pandemic anyway. It's hard to say. The temptation would have been so strong... but there was one problem. The Servitors had, upon encountering this disease, also found (through heroic, frantic effort) a reliable vaccine. There was just enough time to duplicate it and disseminate it among human health agencies. Well... there /was/ a difference between letting humanity get decimated and actively conspiring to decimate humanity, wasn't there? Try as he might, Jordi couldn't quite find a justification to so actively flaunt God's Will. He tried, though: he tried very, very hard. But, when all was said and done, Jordi _was_ an Archangel, and he was _not_ a Damned rebel against God. He might have skirted the line a time or two, but he couldn't force himself to step over it. The image of the Archangel of Animals deciding to not let humanity get wiped out is a bemusing one, of course, but it's overshadowed by what Jordi did next. He went to Jean. The Deal (as it was later called) was never fully disclosed by either Superior, but the broad details became fully clear. Jordi offered Jean a trade: Jean got the vaccine (and Jordi's support) in exchange for ... the Earth. Jean could have the rest of the Universe, but Jordi wanted the planet. Jean, after some thought, agreed. The combination of the coldest Archangel and the most inhuman Archangel did not mean that the crisis was averted, naturally: instead, it was ... used. By the time the first plague reports had come in, Lightning-dominated human agencies were poised to effectively counteract the threat. There were glaring exceptions. A shame about the outbreaks in Southern California, of course, but when you're mobilizing against a pandemic, sometimes quality control isn't all that it could be. Ironic, though, that Hollywood's blatant attempts to monopolize the first batches of vaccine could backfire so spectacularly, no? Then there was that unfortunate business with mixing politics and medicine: not that anyone intended to hold up shipments to certain dictatorships, but accidents happen. The inevitable conspiracy theories were promulgated, but nobody on Earth took them seriously: after all, every country ended up being affected. Surely a government intending to wreck their enemy's power structures would have avoided wrecking their own in the process: you couldn't even truthfully say that the medical community was behind it all, as they had lost too many of their own before it was all over. True, there was a lot of rioting (and ancillary property damage) taking place at the pandemic's height, but only the most paranoid could suggest that they were somehow planned, worldwide... Well, Hell could, but by then they had their own problems. Jean and Jordi had managed to identify and destroy the most 'public' Diabolical outposts (including over 67% of known Tethers), and without their most influential human pawns, the Princes were hard-pressed to hold what they had. Jean had logically concluded that exposing to disease any human authority figure not provably in the service of Heaven would be an efficient method of eliminating Diabolical influence. Those going to Heaven would be immediately given a vessel and sent right back down in time to make a 'miraculous recovery': those going to Hell anyway... well, good riddance to bad rubbish. Those revealed as celestials by a negative reaction to the 'inoculation' were quickly identified and sent into Trauma. The other Archangels started screaming right about that time, but the problem was that the method /worked/. By the time that Jean and Jordi were put on trial by a snarling Dominic, Hell was retreating from areas formerly considered unassailable. Dominic could thunder about willful disobedience of the Council and Novalis could weep over the innocent lives lost all they liked. At least half of Hell's fingers had been pried off the metaphorical throat of Earth ... and certain other Archangels were starting to see the advantages in the new situation. The trial ended in stalemate, despite the wishes of the Archangels of Flowers and Judgement (who, nonetheless, insisted on the ending of the controlled plagues). The situation might have stabilized, even then, if it wasn't for the fact that Hell took the opportunity to promptly erupt in civil war. Saminga, swelled with the boost to his Word, became so dangerous that he had to be put down - but doing so claimed the lives of many Princes (including a greatly weakened Nybbas and most of the minor Princes) and countless demons. The defections started about that time, too: no Prince successfully got away, but destroying Belial and Vapula took resources that Hell couldn't afford to lose (including Haagenti and Valefor). And, through all this time, Gabriel kept sounding her Horn. By the time Armageddon came, the two sides were wildly unmatched. It wasn't a walkover, by any means, but Heaven prevailed. Several centuries later, the two Archangels have divided the universe between them (the Deal has been expanded: Jordi gets the ecosystems, Jean gets everything else). Most of the human race has moved off of the planet, and is now slowly spreading across the nearest star systems. Those that remain are putting the finishing touches on rebuilding the ecology. Jordi has been restoring species left and right, using the flimsiest excuses to justify having the needed DNA for cloning. Jean has allowed humanity access to a variety of interstellar drives, carefully creating rational societies that will properly develop the new planets that they discover. Half a galaxy over, several planets have been terraformed by Lightning and Animals to make space for the oldest human species. Hell has been reclaimed: those demons that remained after Armageddon were given the choice between destruction and Redemption. Novalis has voluntarily relocated there to try and bring the remaining damned souls out of their collective self-degradation. She has not left her self-imposed exile since the end of Armageddon, despite all entreaties: she (and certain others) refuses to endorse by her presence the means used to justify this end. It's a very pragmatic world, actually. True, there's still a lot of dissension on how this victory was accomplished, but there's also the fact that, all in all, Heaven won. There were a lot of deaths, true, and some of them weren't particularly justified, but the humans involved are either in Heaven or being ministered to in Hell. Surely the ends justified the means, in this one case. This was the best way things could have turned out: this was the only way things could have turned out. In hindsight, there wasn't any other way to win. There couldn't have been any other way to win ... couldn't there? ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:42:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> New Tether Tether to Destiny? Bah.* ;) Moe *Yeah, I know, Yves is the only canonical choice. So? :) The Library of Congress (Thomas Jefferson Building) (Archives) Yes, it's listed as a Tether to Destiny. That's _old_ news. There's no especial mystery about the recent switch: Yves simply decided that the Tether was better suited being run by Beth. This isn't Hell, after all: it's perfectly reasonable for one Archangel to hand over a Tether to another, providing that both are on good terms and willing to be accommodating. It wasn't like Servitors of Archives weren't (constantly) using the Library of Congress constantly all along: in fact, they were using it more than Yves' Servitors were (which was no doubt a factor in the switch). The Heavenly focus of the Tether didn't even shift. Anyway, for those who aren't familiar with the Tether, the Library of Congress is _the_ symbol of Library Science in the United States. It's said that every book published in the USA after a certain point ends up in the archives somewhere: this is an exaggeration, but not much of one. The architecture of the main building resembles a secular temple dedicated to Knowledge: the floors, walls and ceilings commemorate virtually every form of secular learning known to man. The overall effect (including stained glass windows) should be hideously overdone, but isn't, strangely enough. The sight of stoic librarians (or library students) breaking down and weeping at the sight of all those /books/ is not unknown. The focus of the Tether has always been the collective area where the original volumes donated by Thomas Jefferson were stored. Naturally, this normally means that descending celestials may find themselves virtually anywhere in the Thomas Jefferson Building (which is what most celestials mean when they say 'the Library of Congress Tether'. It's actually one of three buildings). However, at the moment these volumes are on display on the Northwest Pavilion on the Tether's second floor. The current Seneschal (Thomas, Kyriotate of Archives) arranged the display so that a visitor appears to be inside a circular room: this both appeals to his sense of humor and strengthens the focus. More than one potential Soldier has been identified by his or her reaction to the Tether's focus. Thomas, Kyriotate of Archives Thomas (no relation) has been Seneschal of the Tether since it formed in 1899, and had no difficulty in switching Superiors. He didn't even have to be given any new Choir or Servitor Attunements: he was always on good terms with Beth. Thomas' duties likewise remain unchanged: keep one eye on the books, another on the researchers, a third on the area (he's close to the Capitol building, after all) and a fourth out for any potential Soldiers of Destiny and/or Archives. This is where being a Kyriotate comes in handy. Needless to say, he's got help. *Every* Librarian of Congress since 1900 has known of Thomas' presence, although none of them so far have been actually Soldiers (some of their subordinates have been, though). In emergencies, Thomas has no shortage of hosts to help him defend the Tether. The Kyriotate is often in one host or another: he's noted (strictly off the record) as being an expert on the arcane cataloging system, which can speed up the process considerably... Library of Congress (Thomas Jefferson Building) Tether: Strong Tether (15 Forces, High Flow, Celestial Harbor, Friendly, Quiet) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 03:08:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> I'm back... and with a Superior Victory in tow. A duel-Superior Victory, even! And dark as hell, in an Elohitey sorta way... shivers abound. One wonders if God itself wouldn't step in at some point - this one makes Uriel look like a moderate, really. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "It is very difficult to say anything serious or seriously truthful when the image of an erect penis hangs above the words." -- The Creator's Rights Party ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 00:13:02 -0800 From: The Mage Subject: IN> In Nomine : Preacher Hello, I just started reading Garth Ennis' excellent comic "Preacher" this weekend, and I have to say I'm hooked. Having already finished the first five collections, I couldn't help but ask myself, "Has anyone done this up for IN yet?" I'd like to know if anyone has, and, well, if the answer is no... I just may have to do it myself. :) Thanks, Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:17:46 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> I'm back... and with a Superior Victory in tow. - --On Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:39 PM -0700 Maurice Lane wrote: > > There couldn't have been any other way to win ... > couldn't there? > *shiver* You know, some types of victory are beneath contempt. Neat scenario, as usual! =) Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation (Apparently shipping out to Shal-mari...?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 05:43:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals in Celestial combat (Was re: IN> Soul Killing a Remnant) - --- Perry Lloyd wrote: > Well, yes . . . you and Elizabeth have both pointed out > that Ethereals can, > in fact, participate in Cel combat. > I'm asking HOW it is that they are able to participate. I'm sorry, the number you have reached is ineffable. > Do Ethereals have celestial forms? No. > Is it that in the Marches you're both Ethereal and > Celestial at the same time? Possibly. I don't recall anything that says. It may have something to do with the interaction between the mind and the soul (which, in IN, are related but not the same). > And since Ethereals *can* participate in Celestial combat > (a) can they enter > heaven and/or hell, and (b) if not, why not? The stuff that I recall offhand (no books with me) is that some Ethereals could theoretically stand the light of Heaven, but there are no confirmed reports of any actually reaching it. Blandine's Tower and Gabriel's Volcano have both been tried, but no spirit is known to have succeeded. Of course, "none have succeeded" and "none are known to have succeeded" are two _very_ different things. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2174 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.