From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Apr 23 22:57:31 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25869 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:57:31 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id XAA22994 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:04:44 -0500 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:04:44 -0500 Message-Id: <200104240404.XAA22994@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2176 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, April 23 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2176 In this digest: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine Re: IN> Superiors and Death IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2175 Re: IN> FWD: Question re Ethereal Rites Re: IN> Superiors and Death IN> Soul killing and the Environment Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2175 Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2175 IN> Lucifer and the Demon of Rare Books Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) Re: IN> Live bait Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) Re: IN> In Nomine : Preacher IN> The Ethics of Holy Bullets Re: IN> Live bait Re: IN> Live bait Re: IN> Live bait Re: IN> Lucifer and the Demon of Rare Books IN> In Nomine in the Media Re: IN> In Nomine in the Media Re: IN> Live bait IN> Re: Something or other IN> Re: Something or other Re: IN> I'm back... and with a Superior Victory in tow. IN> April 16, 2001 (ML) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:22:16 +0100 From: Omentide Subject: Re: IN> Religion in In Nomine > > The power to choose one's own actions, no matter how much > > power one has, is > > the center of heroism. With a god telling everyone > > what's right and wrong, where is the struggle? > > Depends on whether the god is informing or enforcing. >When everyone is made to do right, there is no struggle. >But when you have clear knowledge of what right and wrong >are and yet still have the freedom to choose wrong, the >struggle is in you. Black-and-white morality doesn't >invalidate that inner turmoil -- quite often that's what >you need to create it. If the line separating right and >wrong is blurred into nonexistence, the ability to choose >between good and evil is taken away just as surely as if >one was prevented from doing wrong. In order to struggle >with crossing the line, one must have a line to cross. The line in IN is blurred and shifting. Malakim have one view. Dominic or his representatives reputedly meet with Asmodeus or his guys, something a Malakim might have a serious problem with. Different AA's and Chiors have various opinions. Most demons do not really have a line, they simply look after number one, right and wrong do not enter into anything. Well, Ok, Lilim do not like slavery and draw a line there, and Vapula does not tolerate Calabim for his own very good reasons, etc. Haballah work for Heaven don't they? Corruption with little or no line beneath it is the sole domain of the fleshless. And humans, who the war is really about. The line is personal and very blurred. Many might agree about certain things being beyond it., others dispute this. Morality in human society has it's few hard rules, most are either collective belief or personal opinion. Example. We would probably all agree that ritual abuse is unacceptable, we would not all agree that communism or capitalism are. The line is blurred, everyone, AA's, DP's, angels, demons, humans, ethereals all have different stances on where it is. God is a guide, he expresses one view. He may not be right. But this does not blur the line into non existance. It simply makes it a matter of personal choice. Morality and right is almost never a matter defined by black and white except in dogma and fundamentalism. Is it not the role of Dominic and the triads to define (in the context of Heaven and Hell) where at any given point the line is? And even then, behind the scenes it may be in a different place. Ashley. Ashley and Hilary omentide.omentide@virgin.net http://freespace.virgin.net/omentide.omentide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:31:19 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors and Death >Besides, a non-Superior facing a Superior in Celestial combat is the >celestial equivalent of a signed and sealed suicide note. *cough*Haggenti*cough* _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:33:01 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2175 > Whoops. Not at all. > Vessel-death snaps you *directly* back to your Heart. If you vessel-kill > somebody, his celestial form does not hang around the death scene > afterwards, not even for a little bit. That's providing Superiors have hearts. I rule that such beings lose their hearts as part of their ascension to Superior-dom. In this case they're hearts are literally MORPHED into part of the Symphony directly and it's impossible for them to return to their minature tether to Heaven because they are now part of the Symphony itself. (I never liked the cathedral rule) Thus Superiors can appear in multiple places at once because they are technically EVERYWHERE but can bring their manifestation into one area.... which is usually a VERY freaky experience. David's celestial form would probably once brought directly fully into one area would probably animate (or require to be invested in) an entire mountain as a vessel and anyone standing on rock for the next hundred miles would be subject to a "ringing sensation". Why the battle between Belial and Oannes destroyed the island they were nearby, it was a being in a vessel of lava and a being in a vessel of a half mile tall wave duking it out. > So Eli wakes up back in wherever he's hidden his Heart in Heaven (Between > their beyond-the-limits Will scores and their usual multi-tasking, > Archangels are effectively immune to Trauma), and goes "O-kay, now I'm mad. > Time to find some really Creative ways to make that jerk's life miserable." Basically the summary of the above goes like this... Destroying a Superior's vessel isn't going to hurt him very much but Eli is different than other Archangels and in this particular battle Ophis knows that Eli doesn't bother with multiple manifestations due to reports (he's being manipulated by Kobal in the fanfic but doesn't know it). So destroying the vessel of Eli will just result in his celestial form emerging. > Besides, a non-Superior facing a Superior in Celestial combat is the > celestial equivalent of a signed and sealed suicide note. Vessel-death > doesn't do a single bit of damage to your Forces at all, so even blowing Eli > up with a *nuke* wouldn't help Ophis' cause one bit. IMG Ophis once he weakens Eli with the weapons will battle him out and kill him easily. After all the Word forces of a Superior are only 25 or so....Eli I might go so far to say a hundred but he's no fighter and Ophis is. Lucifer will then promptly grant Ophis the word of Murder and it'll begin a rebellion unless the hero of the fiction helps (a young Archangel) *** Besides your assuming Eli and Superiors even WEAR vessels, I've always wondered this but really what if Superior manifestations are for the most part Celestial? Explaining why the bangs are so big. Eli in this case may just be wandering the world in celestial form and not adopting vessels because they cramp his style. Just adjusting his celestial appearence as he sees fit. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:38:31 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> FWD: Question re Ethereal Rites > >From: Adam Thomas Gieseler > > I'm preparing to GM an In Nomine campaign, and one of my players > >wants to play an Ethereal. My question is, what Rites, if any, should a > >starting Ethereal player character get? Do Ethereals get Rites of their > >own? The Marches mentions worship Rites, where mortals transfer Essence > >to an Ethereal, but doesn't seem to mention whether they get standard > >Rites of their own. In the EPG (written, but not published, probably never will be, unless I can get SJG's permission to just post it on my website), ethereals are given special powers and Rites based on the concepts of which they are composed. So for example, a spirit with a "strand" of Fear in him might earn Essence by causing a nightmare in a mortal's dreamscape, while a spirit with a strand of Air could earn Essence by causing a mortal to have a flying dream. Worship Rites are a rather different manner, since that's Essence sent _to_ you by mortal worshippers, and you have to be above the level of a PC to command that kind of power. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:39:01 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Superiors and Death >>Besides, a non-Superior facing a Superior in Celestial combat is the >>celestial equivalent of a signed and sealed suicide note. > >*cough*Haggenti*cough* Meserach didn't really fight back [1], and Mariel was facing a Prince. [1] Not to mention that it's long been a topic of speculation as to just what, if anything, was giving Haagenti some help he might not have known about. Kobal and Lucifer are the two lead suspects. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:44:38 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Soul killing and the Environment Okay does anyone think that the Death of a Superior or wordbound or even JUST CELESTIAL period should have some form of effect on the environment in question? I mean let's look at the facts. 1. Celestial bodies are composed of highly alien matter to the corporeal plane 2. Celestial bodies are interwoven with powerful concepts and energies 3. Those matters and energies are released in celestial combat IMO whenever a celestial dies in a specific area the area should promptly be flooded with resonances appropriate to that type of energy. It might actually help explain why angels and demons are so cautious about the war if it has lasting "environmental" effects. Example: For instance let's say in New York theres a serial killer/child rapist Shedim tracked down by two Malakim to a ratty house, they engauge in some heavy hitting that ultimately leads to soul-death of the being in question. The house is flooded with the creature's essence as it is reduced back to it's base structure and burns itself into the walls of the House. From that day forward the house is considered haunted and a place of ill omen as the traces of the forces cause nightmares and "psychic manifestations". Example Father Ramayana is a Cherub of Flowers and an ultra pacfist who refuses to fight the Calabim and the Djinn of the War who are trying to kill a young boy he's attunded to. He covers the young man's body with his own until he switches to celestial form because his vessel is beaten badly and is killed just before his superior arrives and both servitors flee. From that day forward the run down church he's given is a sight of strange happenings and visions of the dead priest along with signs of occasional miracles that the man's songs might have performed. On a more humorous note the reason Jesus's face is in the refrigerator is some poor Mercurian got stabbed in the back while getting a cold one the month before, crop circles because of bigger battles, and in the great battle where over 100 Malakim were slain and a thousand demons during WW2 period the blood red poppy with a white cross blooms. the river nearby occasionally turning blood red. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:45:29 +1200 From: "Alex Liddell" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2175 >That's providing Superiors have hearts. I rule that such beings lose their >hearts as part of their ascension to Superior-dom. In this case they're >hearts are literally MORPHED into part of the Symphony directly and it's >impossible for them to return to their minature tether to Heaven because >they are now part of the Symphony itself. That's a good theory. IC Superiors do have Hearts. Valefor destroyed Genubeth by offing his Heart. Gabriel gave his Heart to Blandine to put at the top of the tower and so on. >So destroying the vessel of Eli will just result in his celestial form >emerging. Either that or Eli heading off to Limbo. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:49:52 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2175 From: "Charles Phipps" > > > Vessel-death snaps you *directly* back to your Heart. If you vessel-kill > > somebody, his celestial form does not hang around the death scene > > afterwards, not even for a little bit. > > That's providing Superiors have hearts. I rule that such beings lose their > hearts as part of their ascension to Superior-dom. OK, so this is the first part of the deck that's getting stacked... > Destroying a Superior's vessel isn't going to hurt him very much but Eli is > different than other Archangels and in this particular battle Ophis knows > that Eli doesn't bother with multiple manifestations due to reports (he's > being manipulated by Kobal in the fanfic but doesn't know it). And this is the second place where the deck is getting stacked... > > Besides, a non-Superior facing a Superior in Celestial combat is the > > celestial equivalent of a signed and sealed suicide note. Vessel-death > > doesn't do a single bit of damage to your Forces at all, so even blowing > > Eli up with a *nuke* wouldn't help Ophis' cause one bit. > > IMG Ophis once he weakens Eli with the weapons will battle him out and kill > him easily. In *your* game, yes. A game in which you've stacked the deck to make a superior who has been around since the dawn of time (and perhaps even before) a bit too easily disposed of. > Eli I might go > so far to say a hundred but he's no fighter and Ophis is. Eli is the one who created the Malakite of Creation attunement, which can be used to turn literally ANYTHING into a lethal weapon. And let's not forget that destruction is a facet of creation. If Ophis doesn't have a major Word before going into the fight, he's going to be lucky to come out of it as anything other than a remnant. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:58:39 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Lucifer and the Demon of Rare Books Actually I had an idea here... <10 character points if you can guess which movie this is taken from> Depp, a servitor of Kronos had completed the enigmatic trial for his prince that had resulted in him trapaising across the world to find the true meaning of evil and down to earth gritty darkness plus a very rare song which the Devil had yada yada yada hidden for the express purpose of conjuring him. "I beseach you etc etc Prince of Darkness...come blah blah." Depp sighed tapping his foot after completing the Song and then saw the Devil. "You rang?" the Prince of evil was dressed as a beatnik? "Yeah, Kronos wants me to petition you for a word." Depp said. The Devil looked at him cross so Depp straightened up and tried to look respectful. "Yeah well I've gone through the last one thousand years doing alot of weird stuff and learning the ins and out of what makes humanity want to embrace darkness. My Prince notes my "sucess" and thinks I deserve a word." "Do you?" Lucifer said. "Truth be told I don't care." Lucifer blinked but didn't show MUCH surprise, still he rarely got an answer that was legitamate. Alot of demons had tried pulling the "I don't care" bit. "Well any word I'm going to be good at I'd already be doing. I've spent my entire life collecting, reprinting, and distributing tomes with forbidden knowledge in them and passing around the money which makes people willing to help me in my aquisitions. A few attunements might help or not but I can acomplish my aims with or without this supposed "word" deal. I love my job and know what makes humans tick. Still best not to let the old man down, I'd like the word of rare books." Lucifer scratched his goatee and slapped his bongo twice. "no." 'Oh damnit he's going to make me the demon of rank toilet seats.' Depp thought to himself sighing, eh he'd just ignore it. Better enjoying what he enjoyed doing in the works of art humanity produced and helping man produce more of them than running around trying to preserve a worthless existence. "I dub you the Prince of Temptation." Lucifer the beatnik smiled. "What?" "Evil is an art man. You know this. It's not something humans need to be lead into doing but do because they like doing it." Lucifer snapped his fingers and drank some coffee that appeared out of nowhere "You know how to appeal to man's ability to think they arn't doing anything wrong and you believe it yourself. Thus man I appoint you my guru in charge of the nitty gritty day to day badness." Depp smoked a clove cigarette and offered the Devil one as he shrugged, it would probably hurt his reading time but it might give the Djinn a chance to really get some good tomes out of man. "Go es I into the night says I." lucifer then dissapeared in a puff of brimstone. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: 23 Apr 2001 23:24:03 -0000 From: "-=|horsefly|=-" Subject: Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:14:38 -0500 Charles Glasgow wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charles Glasgow" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:11 PM >Subject: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) > > >[snip] >> But what's the *Grigori* one, Rolland? i'm not Rolland, but i'd say off-hand that Laurence doesn't know any Grigori fighting styles, what with having been created *way* after the Grigori outcasting and the fact that he's a Malakite, and Malakim and Grigori don't generally get along (or maybe i'm just thinking about the way Moe presented them...). in any case, i don't think Laurence is in a position to know. -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:01:39 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) - -----Original Message----- From: -=|horsefly|=- To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) >On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:14:38 -0500 Charles Glasgow wrote: >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Charles Glasgow" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:11 PM >>Subject: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) >> >> >>[snip] >>> But what's the *Grigori* one, Rolland? > i'm not Rolland, but i'd say off-hand that Laurence doesn't know any Grigori fighting styles, what with having been created *way* after the Grigori outcasting and the fact that he's a Malakite, and Malakim and Grigori don't generally get along (or maybe i'm just thinking about the way Moe presented them...). in any case, i don't think Laurence is in a position to know. Truth be told, I just copied the "Celestial Glory" Martial Arts Styles out of Pyramid Magazine. No mention was made of a Grigori Art, so I assume there isn't. BTW, anyone have anything to say about how I handled Godzilla and co? ...Or should I just try to re-write that story into a multi-parter? - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:12:47 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) From: "Rolland Therrien" > > BTW, anyone have anything to say about how I handled Godzilla and co? No complaints from me on their account - you handled them well. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:38:47 EDT From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Live bait Chuckg wrote: << Yes, but unless I'm mistaken that's to beings who have asked him for a Word... and are just getting a Word that they didn't expect. IOW, they *thought* Lucifer was giving them the Word they wanted, so they cooperated. Until they find out, when it was too late, that they'd been skunked. >> In Night Music, the Demon of Strippers received her Word without petitioning for one, so he can give out Words whenever he feels like. Sam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:40:33 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) - -----Original Message----- From: Prodigal To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:15 PM Subject: Re: Just noticed... (was Re: IN> Laurence in the Land of the Kami) >From: "Rolland Therrien" >> >> BTW, anyone have anything to say about how I handled Godzilla and co? > >No complaints from me on their account - you handled them well. :) > Thanks. The connection between the Four Guardians and Godzilla, Gamera, Mothra and Ultraman came to me after remembering that Gamera 3 made a link between Gamera and the Turtle of the South. Connecting Godzilla to the Dragon was an easy link, and Mothra is supposed to continuously regenerate herself from Death, so she made a good Phoenix. And Ultraman is a martial artist, who're generally connected with Tigers. Even though he was a stretch. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:31:53 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine : Preacher > Hello, > > I just started reading Garth Ennis' excellent comic "Preacher" > this weekend, and I have to say I'm hooked. Lucky, I would love to read it, but need to find someone who copies I can borrow, as this man is broke. Ah, the romance of being a starving student. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:07:23 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Ethics of Holy Bullets Okay maybe I've been reading waaaaay too much Wraith: the Oblivion but I had an idea which made celestial bullets much more costly to the Host and weapons much more prized. They're made of people. Yes I know you probably now have a hankering for Soyant Green but bear with me here that it makes a certain ammount of sense that in order to destroy one's natural foe (angels to demons and ditto) that raw celestial forces must be used. While they still might be able to dig out metal from the caverns of David and perhaps the slave pits of Stygia I think that such "artifacts" to make them powerful enough to be used against the forces of Hell/Heaven require a "spark" of life. It emphasizes the Might of an angel. Thus a Holy Gun in order to be manufactured requires a human being's soul or reliever who is willing to be transformed from a living breathing celestial being into/bound to an weapon which makes them thus MUCH more sparingly given to one's fellow angels. A Celestial for a sword or bullets must willing sacrafice one of his forces to create the weapons and they are like memories and avatars of his faith. (probably why Malakim of the Sword are attached to their weapons-they are comrads in arms or extensions of themselves instead of tools) Down south Demons are probably less sparing in their sacrafice of souls with Saminga the man whose most willing to hand unholy hand grenades, cursed swords, Demonic Zambonis, Flying Lawmowers of death, and the like to his servitors but the weapons because they represent life are usually one use and prone to his subconcious desire to destroy everyone...thus his servitors are reluctant to request any of these toys. While an arguement could be made that there is no end to unethical engineers, doctors, and mechanics in Hell Vapula prefers I imagine to have "lab assitants" and he mostly operates with souls given to him by the dozen for nifty toys from Baal (who prefers to send dishonorable soldiers who kill civilians or the hopelessly rebellious) or Belial (who doesn't care, the place is always filling up with new additions to burn) - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:14:14 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Live bait - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:38 PM Subject: Re: IN> Live bait > In Night Music, the Demon of Strippers received her Word without petitioning > for one, so he can give out Words whenever he feels like. Good point. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:57:03 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Live bait - --On Monday, April 23, 2001 20:38 +0000 Samovar3@aol.com wrote: > Chuckg wrote: > > << Yes, but unless I'm mistaken that's to beings who have asked him > for a Word... and are just getting a Word that they didn't expect. > > IOW, they *thought* Lucifer was giving them the Word they wanted, > so they cooperated. Until they find out, when it was too late, > that they'd been skunked. >> > > In Night Music, the Demon of Strippers received her Word without > petitioning for one, so he can give out Words whenever he feels > like. > And even so, what do you suppose is the lifespan of someone who tries to refuse? You may round to the nearest femtosecond. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Up yours, I don't want-" *POP* ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:43:16 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Live bait - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Bowden" To: Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:57 PM Subject: Re: IN> Live bait > And even so, what do you suppose is the lifespan of someone who > tries to refuse? You may round to the nearest femtosecond. So as near as I can see it, the options are, if Hell tries this "Set some non-Superior up to give Word-friction to an Archangel" thing: The poor suck... errr, demon may either: a Accept the Word, and actually try to carry out the mission. Virtual certainty -- he's worm food. b) Refuse the Word. 100% certainty that he's worm food. c) Accept the Word, *pretend* to accept the mission and then try to stall as much as he can. Virtual certainty -- he's worm food, as soon as his Superior(s) get impatient waiting for useful results. He just prolonged the agony of his dying. d) Accept the Word and go Renegade. Going Renegade is iffy under the best of circumstances. When you're defecting from a project that has Lucifer's personal attention, that's anything but the best of circumstances. e) Accept the Word, go Renegade, and try to Redeem as soon as possible. Not too good a chance of surviving -- not because of Hell's pursut, mind you. Any demon operating alone on the corporeal plane who knows where a nearby Heavenly Tether is -- and remember, we're assuming this guy is a senior Word-bound on a secret mission, so he fulfills all of the above -- can get into negotiations with angels faster than the Game can catch up, unless they're literally chained to his wrist. Likewise... Superior Invocations at Tethers, especially if the demon volunteers all of his personal Essence to the Seneschal to help boost the Invocation roll to the max, are virtually certain Surviving the Redemption process -- especially given that this guy went through anything but a prolonged period of contemplation and/or trying to change his personality first -- *that's* the big if. So basically, any demon who accepts this mission is virtually certain to either die, or undergo what is (to most non-Selfless demons) a fate worse than death. Admittedly, the same problem exists on the flip side for angels, but here's the thing. Angels are selfless. They (OK, some of them) *will* accept volunteering for outright suicide missions, if it furthers the cause of Heaven that significantly. OTOH, demons being the selfish little gits that they are, they're always looking out for #1. Looking out for #1 precludes nobly sacrificing one's life for the cause. (My fanfic "The War & The Sword" made an entire plot out of just that dichotomy, and the edge it can be used to obtain.) It's one of the advantages Good has over Evil -- they're not just in it for themselves. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:41:34 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Lucifer and the Demon of Rare Books Charles Phipps wrote: > > Actually I had an idea here... > > <10 character points if you can guess which movie this is taken from> Hee. Ninth Gate. Neat movie, sorta vaguely INish, but there was far too much meaningless symbology, and at the end it just sorta cut out as if the producer'd run out of money. Oh, and for the post itself, cool. Cheers, Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:50:40 -0500 From: Santiago Subject: IN> In Nomine in the Media Anyone else see last night's X-Files and think "Shedite of Fire" about fifteen seconds into it? - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:59:06 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine in the Media - --On Monday, April 23, 2001 21:50 -0500 Santiago wrote: > Anyone else see last night's X-Files and think "Shedite of Fire" > about fifteen seconds into it? > *embarassed, but raises his hand* Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:04:46 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Live bait >Surviving the Redemption process -- especially given that this guy went >through anything but a prolonged period of contemplation and/or trying to >change his personality first -- *that's* the big if. This presupposes the Superior is foolish enough to force a redemption upon an unready candidate. Peace Faction AAs would most likely offer it safe haven upon Tether grounds, "and since you're here anyway would you mind talking with these nice Elohim? You poor dear, it must've been an awful experience for you." War Faction AAs would pump it for information. Constantly. "Anthraxus, as a Baron of Saminga you had knowledge of all undead operating in the greater Los Angeles area. Tell us everything you know about them. Then tell us everything you suspect. Then start wildly speculating. Please speak slowly and clearly at the Seraphim." Michael would probably find some way to use the demon's resonance in Heaven's favor, in the cases of Impudites, Lilim and Calabim. - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:18:38 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Something or other >>>Michael would probably find some way to use the demon's resonance in Heaven's favor, in the cases of Impudites, Lilim and Calabim. - -- Casca<<< This reminds me of an idea I had for a campaign I wanted to run involving a group of angels and renegade demons who were involved in Heaven's equivalent to the federal witness protection program. They might not be ready to redeem, but they would have vital intelligence against hell that they would give in exchange for protection. They would also help Heaven's plans now and then. This would ensure that they were in a supportive environment, with plenty of divine influences, and maybe they'd redeem a century or two down the road. Flowers would probably have started it, but Michael would be happy to put the resources it provided to good use. Laurence would have to choke back disgust to even consider working with demons, but he might be convinced if you really played up the "possible redemption" idea. Dominic would approve of the theory, but in actual practice would want to keep a VEEERRRY close eye on the project, resonating the participating renegades continually in every possible way. Thinking of betraying us? Nuh-uh-uh! I think it could work. Rev. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:18:43 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> Re: Something or other >>>Michael would probably find some way to use the demon's resonance in Heaven's favor, in the cases of Impudites, Lilim and Calabim. - -- Casca<<< This reminds me of an idea I had for a campaign I wanted to run involving a group of angels and renegade demons who were involved in Heaven's equivalent to the federal witness protection program. They might not be ready to redeem, but they would have vital intelligence against hell that they would give in exchange for protection. They would also help Heaven's plans now and then. This would ensure that they were in a supportive environment, with plenty of divine influences, and maybe they'd redeem a century or two down the road. Flowers would probably have started it, but Michael would be happy to put the resources it provided to good use. Laurence would have to choke back disgust to even consider working with demons, but he might be convinced if you really played up the "possible redemption" idea. Dominic would approve of the theory, but in actual practice would want to keep a VEEERRRY close eye on the project, resonating the participating renegades continually in every possible way. Thinking of betraying us? Nuh-uh-uh! I think it could work. Rev. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:51:05 -0700 From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> I'm back... and with a Superior Victory in tow. (snip) Laurence -- When Laurence saw the shape of what was occurring, and knew that he could not stop it -- was *bound* by his oaths *not* to try and stop it, because it would indeed achieve victory -- he went very quiet. He led the Host to the Final Victory with perfect efficiency and detachment. He saw the defeat of Hell, knew that he had accomplished his mission, obeyed the last commands of both his Lord and his father Uriel, and fulfilled all of his oaths. It was over. It was all, finally, over. (/snip) One wonders what would've happened had Laurence Resonated Jordi and Jean while they were on Trial by Judgement. Assuming that they agreed to submit to the Resonation, that is. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:55:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> April 16, 2001 (ML) I am _so_ behind with these... Moe Vasiariah Seraph Mistress of the Realms of Night Angel of Patriotism Corporeal Forces: 3 Strength: 6 Agility: 6 Ethereal Forces: 6 Intelligence:12 Precision: 12 Celestial Forces: 6 Will: 12 Perception: 12 Word-Forces: 14 Vessel: middle-aged man/3 Skills: Computer Operation/1, Dodge/6, Emote/6, Fighting/6, Knowledge (Politics/3, Teaching/3), Ranged Weapons (rifle/1, pistol/1), Savoir-Faire/1, Small Weapon/1 (knife), Tactics/1 Songs: Dreams (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/3, Celestial/4), Entropy (Ethereal/6), Fire (Corporeal/1, Ethereal/6, Celestial/2), Motion (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3), Light (Celestial/2), Shields (Corporeal/4, Ethereal/3, Celestial/2), Tongues (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/2) Attunements: Seraph of Dreams, Malakite of Dreams, Dream Sight, Dream Walking, The Last Spark, Mistress of the Realms of Night, Angel of Patriotism Angel of Patriotism: Vasiariah automatically succeeds in her resonance when attempting to determine whether a person is Truly patriotic (by the definition below). More to the point, she can punish traitors and the self serving: by spending 3 Essence, she can make her corporeal attacks do celestial damage for one combat. Vasiariah must know that her opponent is a traitor to do this damage: however, please note that, for the purposes of this Attunement, any demon or Hellsworn is automatically defined as a Traitor to either Heaven or humanity... Rites: : Cause a human to work to correct an injustice or problem in his or her society (useable twice per day) : Kill a Traitor. She should be still working for Divine Fire. The fact that she isn't is Belial's fault. That puts the Prince of Infernal Fire on a little list. She's had a lot of trouble with shifting perception of her Word: Nybbas is to blame for that, ably assisted by Malphas. That puts them on the same little list. Thanks to the unsubtle machinations of the Prince of the War, it's a continual uphill battle to gain proper corporeal assistance. That puts Baal on the little list, too. And Vasiariah simply doesn't personally care for the Princess of Freedom at all, which means that Lilith is on the little list, underlined twice and with a big red star. OK, so it's a big list. It isn't easy being the Angel of Patriotism, in case the above isn't a sufficient clue. Not quite as bad as being, say, the Angel of Eugenics (that poor unfortunate is still gibbering from the sudden, traumatic Word-shift), but there are certainly easier tasks. Vasiariah prevails, however: the Seraph is grimly determined to make sure that nobody - and she means nobody - will ever get to corrupt the bedrock of her Word. Of course, to do this she's had to combine stubbornness, directed fury and a certain ruthlessness, but that's life in this corrupted world. 'Patriotism', as Vasiariah (and to a lesser extent, Heaven) defines it is not the same as 'blind fanaticism' (one reason why she decided to work for Blandine, rather than David). Ideally, it combines a sincere love for one's home and fellow-citizens with a clear-eyed dedication to fix whatever flaws exist in a given society. Needless to say, this is a problem in places where the Media-spawned abomination of 'my country, right or wrong' prevails. And *don't* get her started about Samuel Johnson: Vasiariah sat on his deathbed and laughed as his soul was trucked off to Hell. Apparently, coining the phrase 'Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel' outdid whatever good he might have done in his life. Fate is a bastard sometimes - but then again, so is Kronos, so that all works out. Alas, chances for levity like that are few and far between. The Angel of Patriotism is constantly on the move, doing what she can to keep a simple Dream continuously burning. It doesn't have to be flashy (in fact, it's better if it isn't), just as long as it's there. Luckily, she's on good terms with Michael and Laurence's Servitors (although she doesn't exactly bring her relationship with the former to Blandine's attention): Soldiers of War and the Sword are often precisely the role models she wants to promote. Oddly enough, there's been more than one Soldier of Trade who also fit her fairly high standards. Angels of all three are also useful to have around when it comes time to use Celestial Songs on the corporeal plane, too. Vasiariah is fairly unique among Seraphim in that she actually has a high opinion of humanity: she's seen too many instances where a nameless person's quiet love of country or people has blunted the forces of tyranny for just long enough. When given a chance, humanity can surprise even the cynical, sometimes - and the Angel of Patriotism isn't a cynic. She declines to give that leech Nybbas the satisfaction. She declines to give anyone in Hell the satisfaction. She's got her little list, after all, and they will most assuredly never, ever be missed... ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2176 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.