From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Apr 26 03:58:37 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30502 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 03:58:37 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id EAA03704 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:05:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:05:49 -0500 Message-Id: <200104260905.EAA03704@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2182 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 26 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2182 In this digest: Re: IN> Eli the Christ (death and reincarnation) Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> DO NOT - Come whine with me! IN> About defaults and skills Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen Re: IN> Where is God? Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo Re: IN> Eli the Christ (death and reincarnation) Re: IN> Where is God? Re: IN> Where is God? Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> Eli the Christ (death and reincarnation) Re: IN> Re: EPG IN> The Eli is dead theory Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen IN> April 17, 18, 20 (ML) Re: IN> Re: EPG Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... Re: IN> Where is God? Re: IN> Re: EPG Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." Re: IN> Hard to Describe Thing, Part I Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo Re: IN> Superiors and Death Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:32:08 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ (death and reincarnation) From: "William J. Keith" <> For at least the Cherubim...I'd say that it's the result of Dominic's philosophy that it's kinder to kill an angel than to let the angel Fall. For his Cherubim, therefore, an overtly harmful act can be defined as "in the best interests of the attuned"--bearing in mind that Superiors 1 notes that Cherubim of Judgment are still loath to let anyone /but/ Judgment harm their attuned. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:32:45 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ > Once Eli had left Jesus, Christ could have yelled, "Okay, I recant all of > it, just cut me down, I don't want to die like this." Not that it would > have happened, likely. You mean, Jesus yelling that or the Romans actually deciding to cut him down? The former, I think, is much more likely than the latter. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:41:35 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: Re: IN> DO NOT - Come whine with me! > Think about this for a second. You want to FLOOD SJG with email asking > them to pretty please print the EPG. That's more likely to piss them off > than have a valid effect. If you say so. Sorry, I just come from the Proletarian School of Mass Mobilization :) > We need one editor (I nominate Jonathan :) to recieve all the emails > begging SJG to release the EPG. The emails should be SHORT and to the > POINT and should include your name and email address. *That* would be the > professional and polite way to do this. Sigh. Alright, send them to me then. We'll spam up my mailbox instead of spamming up SJG's. Anything I get by Friday night will be combined, wrapped up in a neat little package, and mailed off. Try to put "EPG" in the title of your e-mails, so I can sort through them. Later. Jonathan < Jonathan.Walton@oberlin.edu > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:41:11 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> About defaults and skills If a character doesn't have a skill, it ordinarily defaults to the characteristic governing the skill, right? And sometimes it has a minus. According to the rule book, languages are governed by Intelligence. This seems to mean that a celestial with an intelligence of 12 would know any language at a skill of 8 (because, if I recall correctly, trying to speak a language you don't know has a -4 penalty). Is this right?* Does this also work with other skills such as, for example, fighting skills governed by Strength?** Janet Anderson *Personally I would only allow this with languages in the same family as ones the celestial already knows -- Romance, Germanic, Slavic, etc. I'd allow English to count as both Romance and Germanic.) **(she said innocently, looking at her character sheet ...) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:55:17 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen > >The Impudite totally gets me though. > >Theft is already taken and I am struggling to find a word in English that > >can accomodate both being nice and taking stuff from people. > > Really Cool People. > > The Calabite, of course, should be Gross Bodily Harm, and the Shedite has > the Word of People Covered in Fish. > > -- Casca > > "I had a Metatron once, but its head fell off." Casca, you crack me up. Impudites . . . what *are* Impudites . . . Why, they're Best Friends . . . - -Perry, K-F-C perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:11:39 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Where is God? > Or, for that matter, where is Lucifer? > One of my assumptions about the IN universe is that everybody within it plays > by the same rules. That is, on a cosmic, this is the way the universe works, > immutable laws of metaphysics level, everyone plays by the same rules. Songs, > attunements, etc. are all part of the rules. > The second assumption is that what we experience in terms of Game Mechanics is > an accurate model of the universe from the point of view of the characters, NPC > and PC alike. The odds of success, based on skill, are the same for everyone. > So, Statistically, every 108th roll out of 6 billion rolls, God intervenes. > Every day. > And, every 108th roll out of of 6 billion rolls, Lucifer intervenes. > Every Day. > That works out to (roughly) 3 billion interventions every day. > > Where is God? > God is Busy. > > Just a thought. > -Daiv and its a nice thought. A good thought. A useful thought. I wonder . . . In RL, wouldn't God's intervention involve Angels somehow? So, maybe, just maybe, that's why certain PCs encounter certain humans and help them and stuff. Also, there is the thought the God is Everything and Everywhere. God also made the Kyriotate. So, I'd imagine that, for God, He's not busy, just operating as per usual. *Lucifer* on the other hand, should be nowhere nearly likely as intervening. I presume that he lacks the Omnipresence that God possesses . . . so how does /Lucifer/ do it?? I think he's a slacker . . . either that or he's infected human beings so that when they roll a 666, they self-sabotage. :) - -Perry, k-f-c perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. " - --Dick Cavett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:28:54 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ > Is this just empty musing? Probably. But I think it works out > surprisingly well and gives more props to humanity than simply having Eli > _be_ Jesus. Besides, having Jesus say "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" is > just a little too delicious, don't you think? > > Later. > Jonathan what about the stories about Jesus' trip into Hell? Merely stories? - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. " - --Dick Cavett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:20:29 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth McCoy" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 1:36 PM Subject: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo > >Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:53:33 -0500 > >Subject: BOUNCE in_nomine-l@lists.io.com: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 6 > > >From: "Phillip" > >Subject: New Discord: Halo > >Discord: Halo > > > > A celestial with this discord generates a sort of 'Celestial Signature' > >whenever they use a Song, causing physical manifestations of their nature. > >At level one, it could be something as small as a faint odor (Incense or > >Sulphur, maybe?). Around level three it would be something like having > >their eyes glow brightly, and at level 6 they could be bathed in a halo of > >divine light(or a corruscating aura of Hellfire). If nothing else, it means > >that even mundane humans (not to mention other celestials) can finger him > >out as something out of the ordinary. Uh . . . doesn't spending Essence normally have this kind of effect anyway? - -Perry, K-f-C perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:34:28 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ (death and reincarnation) > > < angel, he did his host a big favor. > Besides, angels Know that there are things much worse than death. Some of > them > might even think that reincarnation is a worse thing than ascending into > heaven, for Humans. Its just one of the ways in which an Angels viewpoint > differs from a mortals.>> > > And, as a GM, would you consider the angelic viewpoint or the human one more > important for the Kyriotate dissonance conditions? > > ("You" being directed to the group as a whole--I'm curious.) Human. I'd say that possessing someone, then going and sleeping with their best friend, while not leaving them Physically worse off then before (especially if you recooped before leaving the body), you certainly leave them socially worse off, which is going to leave them emotionally worse off, since they've got a hunk of memory gone where they apparently possibly ruined a friendship. So, leaving someone to die on a cross (bleed to death in a stream, be likely found and killed across enemy lines, without a job and homeless) would probably count, too. At least in my game. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:02:06 -0600 From: Timothy Groth Subject: Re: IN> Where is God? I remember references in the IPG (I think) to booby traps that Lucifer has put throughout the Symphony. Thus when a mortal rolls 666 they've stumbled into one of these little infernal land mines, spiraling their life out of control. - -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:07:42 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Where is God? From: "Timothy Groth" <> ...Unless it does something positive for the mortal. Which, by the Corporeal Player's Guide, it will whenever the mortal rolls a 666 on a selfish action. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:12:47 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ >You mean, Jesus yelling that or the Romans actually deciding to cut him >down? The former, I think, is much more likely than the latter. > >Later. >Jonathan Both parts seem unlikely, depending on how much Eli had influenced Jesus, and the Romans would't have done it either. Even such of his own followers as were about probably would have lost faith in him after saying such a thing, and not done it. William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:58:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Jonathan Walton wrote: > Is this just empty musing? Probably. But I think it works out > surprisingly well and gives more props to humanity than simply having Eli > _be_ Jesus. Besides, having Jesus say "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" is > just a little too delicious, don't you think? Actually, yes, I like this *much* better than just the flat "Eli is/isn't Jesus" declaration. I'm saving this post, to better muse upon it later, should the need come up for me to judge such a thing IMC... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! ::: Conspiracy religions CONvert, the Subgenius SUBverts! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:59:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ (death and reincarnation) On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Kish wrote: > And, as a GM, would you consider the angelic viewpoint or the human one more > important for the Kyriotate dissonance conditions? > > ("You" being directed to the group as a whole--I'm curious.) For this SPECIFIC case of Eli and a powerful Destiny, I'd agree and go ahead with the angelic POV. In general, though, naw... human POV all the way. Angels should *not* get to screw with human lives too badly. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "People love to be told what to do. They love not doing what they've been told even more. They love it the most when they are made to do it anyway." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:50:05 -0500 From: Andrew Hackard Subject: Re: IN> Re: EPG At 02:05 PM 04/25/01 -0400, Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM wrote: >1) If there's inventory of the Rev Cycle left in stock - Get rid of >it. Let >it drop from the sight of man Why on Earth would SJ Games throw away money? >3) Have a set of supplements if not in the can and ready to print, as far >along as you can get it - and send out with the demo teams a list of these >supplements and projected release dates. That's simply not going to happen. Except in very rare cases, it's SJ Games' policy not to announce supplements far in advance, because we really honestly do try to avoid slippage in our announced releases - it annoys the distributors, retailers, and fans, and we don't like doing that. - -- **A note from Jack Chick, concerned about the speck in your eye: "It only takes one error to disprove the Qur'an. That's right. Just one little error and the whole book goes down in defeat! You have just discovered one irrefutable error in the Qur'an. What are you going to do about it?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:08:06 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Eli is dead theory Okay this is "Paul is dead" parody of Beetles fame. *** Dominic stared at the "Before" and "After" pictures of Eli. "You have got to be kidding me" Amanda the Bright Lilim Angel of Temptation serving Faith answered. "I'm serious. This is honest to God proof Islam is right." Dominic swore something. "What was that?" "Nothing Sultry one." Dominic sighed, really hating having to give that chosen title to the woman whose job was to tempt mortals JUST enough to make them better off....and hating the word period. "I would hardly say that. Quite the opposite." Dominic looked at the portrait. "This could be faked for instance." "It's not. Baal had it comissioned just after he killed Eli in single combat." "So your theory...THEORY is that Baal fought Eli around the area of Gallilee and the resulting Symphonic discord resulted in what the Bible refers to as the great storm around Jesus's death.....Eli dies.....and Jesus rises up to the Heavens to replace him?" Amanda nods "PREETTTY much." Dominic looked at her and decided to mark her down for a trial for something, despite he could sense the truth that she BELIEVED this to be the truth. "Obviously he's attuning himself to the new world he's in and that's why he's gone." "RIGHHHHT." Dominic said before putting his pinky in his mouth "O-K. I'll see what I can do." *** "I really...really hate the Hebrews." baal murmured. Kronos sighs "not this again." "First they kill my worshipers....THEN when I to my disgust finally kill a Archangel which only BELIAL for God sakes has managed to do thus far...BELIAL....WHO IS NOT THE COMMANDER OF HELL'S ARMY...God manages to pull a Lilith and elevate some poor mortal shmuck to replace him." "Providing he wasn't an Archangel already." Kronos sighed as he looked at his watch and had the film camera from Nybbas record the events it depicted nearby for the video-library section of the Archives. "Don't you start! It's bad enough this happened...THEY DON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE HE'S DEAD! But I won't think God came down int....a mortal." he said the word like he was cursing. "They do look alike don't they?" Kronos looked "Are you sure..." "I REMEMBER KILLING AN ARCHANGEL!" - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:31:16 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen >From: "Perry Lloyd" > >Casca, you crack me up. Actually, Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman crack you up. I was stealing shamelessly from Good Omens. >Impudites . . . what *are* Impudites . . . Excellent when served as a creamy spread upon a savory cracker. - -- Casca "Captain Samson: He knows what you're afraid of, then does it to you -- in slow motion" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:05:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> April 17, 18, 20 (ML) Do you know how _difficult_ it is to make some minor saints even mildly interesting? Assuming that I did, at least. :) Moe There's a little problem. You see, once upon a time there was a Saint Perfectus: he lived, he got martyred and he achieved his Destiny. The blessed soul ended up working for Laurence: first as an assistant, then as an actual Saint. He wasn't the best Saint in Heaven, but he was a strong, steady worker and a real asset. Unfortunately, his latest mission on Earth ended in his disappearance. Now, Hell would crow like mad if they had managed to soul-kill (or worse, corrupt) a Saint, and corporeal death would simply have sent him back to Heaven, so there's a reasonable chance that he's still alive. Possibly in considerable pain, but still alive. So far, not a particularly unusual problem - but there's a wrinkle. You see, the Saint's original martyrdom was at the hands of, well, Moors. Perfectus wasn't too happy to find out that Islam was a divine religion, and was even less happy when a couple of his executioners eventually ended up in Heaven themselves. Words were exchanged, at extremely high volumes. Now, all of this took place over a thousand years ago, and Perfectus has long since gotten over his not-really-justified outrage. Still, it does look a bit awkward that someone once known for his loud condemnation of certain policies has apparently disappeared just as the adherents of those policies are finally being fully reintegrated into Heavenly society. It looks bad, aside from everything else. Time to find out what happened. Guess who gets to investigate things? Now, both Khalid and Laurence want this handled properly, so they've even sent over a couple of specialists to help: Daniel, Malakite Friend of the Lord's Troops, and Caedwalla, Saint of Faith. Daniel is one of Laurence's specialists on Saints - in fact, he's a minor Catholic saint himself, thanks to the bloody end to one of his Roles (Donan, killed mysteriously as part of the Celtic Church's expansion). Caedwalla simply knows Perfectus personally. Between the two of them, they should be easily able to assist the PCs' search. They will, actually. That's when the trouble starts. You see, no matter what their respective Archangels may personally think, not everyone in either Faith or the Sword is especially happy to give each other the kiss of peace. There were a few ... incidents ... on the corporeal plane, over the last thousand years (kept well-hidden, of course), and a couple of diehards on both sides aren't ready to give up their grudge match quite yet. Ironically, neither group of holdouts had anything to do with Perfectus' disappearance: the Saint simply had the bad fortune to get hit by a car and is now in a coma in a convenient hospital. If anyone had thought to ask Blandine, she could have had him located in a day, but, well, nobody did. At any rate, both cabals are paying close attention to the situation. The holdout Laurencians would like nothing better than to pin the blame on their opposite numbers (a sentiment fully reciprocated) - or failing that, just get a few good licks in. Like many incidents, the actual facts are immaterial: what's important is that there's an excuse to fight. The PCs are going to have a lot of unexplained hindrances on their way to Perfectus' hospital bed. However, it should really be noted that the vast majority of both Faith and the Sword's Servitors are not involved in this grudge match. We're talking about, at most, twenty or so angels on either side that aren't ready to move on and forget the past. There's also a certain reluctance to use violence on the PCs themselves, or their helpers: the two cabals are quite glumly aware that both Archangels will not find this behavior acceptable (to put it mildly). Frankly, both groups are really, really stuck here: they know that they're committed to a futile and deeply stupid course of action, but they've sniped at each other for so long that they can't figure out how to stop. Hopefully, with enough clues, the PCs can work out what's going on and unravel this Gordian knot peacefully. Of course, if they're sufficiently powerful, they may just decide to emulate Alexander and do what he did with knots. You never know, with PCs. Heck, they might decide to take over both groups and set up a professional wrestling federation. You just never know. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:10:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Re: EPG Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:05:10 -0400 From: "Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM" Subject: Re: IN> Re: EPG >2) IN Light! Yes! we need this. The D666 mechanics >(including combat, interventions, and disturbance); >forces, stats, skills, some songs, some discords, >vessels, the Choirs and Bands and about 6 superiors - >3 a side 4, if this hypothetical suggestion gets hypothetically combined with the hypothetical EPG: adding Blandine and Beleth would really be required for that particular hypothetical scenario. :) Other than that, I really do think that this could fly. Beth, if you're compiling a list of people who would like to see this, add me on. Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:11:53 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo > Uh . . . doesn't spending Essence normally have this kind of effect anyway? *Flips through some pages* Oh, bloody hellfire. You'd think I'd get -one- idea that hadn't been done. > -Perry, K-f-C Kunou Fan Club? - -Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:27:22 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 11:05 PM Subject: IN> April 17, 18, 20 (ML) [snip] > You never know, with PCs. Heck, they > might decide to take over both groups and set up a > professional wrestling federation. You just never > know. No bloody kidding, Moe. I just spent four hours today taking a new IN player in a solo session with his second angel. (His first was that Malakite detective concept... which got abandoned when he discovered something *new* to play.) A Kyriotate. Of *Lightning*. What the *HELL* was I *THINKING*?!? (I was thinking that I didn't want to send a new player fleeing from my table muttering about "overly restrictive DMs", that's what. But still.) I swear to God, we must have rolled 90 separate attempts to possess objects in that total time span. He is so lucky that his only Intervention was Divine... (I ruled that since he really needed at the time to commence a prolonged surveillance of one subject that he could just ignore the usual limit and stay in that particular inanimate object -- the target's shirt -- until next sunrise. Moe, do you have as much trouble coming up with good Divine and Infernal Intervention results as I am having?). And yes, I did have to explain -- several times -- that while targets cannot dodge their underwear, they can remind you of that part in the rules that says certain Corpus cannot be evoked unless the object you're in already has a mouth. Thank you, O writers of GURPS IN, for making sure that bit of errata got in there! Anyway, the point of this rant is this... anybody more experienced here got tips on how to exercise Kyriotate Control while still letting people have a good time? So far, the party is shaping up to be one non-combat-optimized social-skills monster Elohite of Destiny in a little-girl vessel, one stereotypical Malakite of War who has a gun permit, a sword, and a fetish for being a cross between Blade and the Punisher, and the aforementioned Kyriotate of Lightning -- In Service to War. (He came up with a *really* good story as to how that one happened -- it involved severely ticking off Dominic -- so I allowed it. That's one of the few things I've allowed that I *don't* have misgivings over.) Oh, and one last question. Is it really unbalancing to have Lucifer pretending to be Eli to the PCs if he's *not* using his Balseraphic resonance? (Because he doesn't want the Archangel-style brain-straining his patsies are gonna go through later to show up any detectable traces of Infernal Intervention, Lucifer is doing this entirely with his tongue, not his resonance or attunements or Songs or *anything* else. Hey, when you wanna frame Eli for something really bad, it needs to be a *good* frame.) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:23:46 -0400 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Where is God? On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:54:19 GMT daiv@cruzio.com writes: > So, Statistically, every 108th roll out of 6 billion rolls, God > intervenes. > Every day. > And, every 108th roll out of of 6 billion rolls, Lucifer intervenes. > Every Day. > That works out to (roughly) 3 billion interventions every day. > > Where is God? > God is Busy. True, but not quite. Remember, it is *also* canon that not all Interventions are literally so. Sometimes your Superior (or an opposite number) just happens to be in the area. Maybe you hit a little land-mine Lucifer laid centuries before. Sometimes you just got lucky. And of course, Lucifer and God are both as capable of multitasking as any Superior. (Especially God, because... well, DUH.) I'd still like to see how 1/108 * 6 billion + 1/108 * 6 billion = 3 *billion*, mind... Infernal Intervention on your part? :) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:39:50 -0400 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: EPG On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:50:05 -0500 Andrew Hackard writes: > At 02:05 PM 04/25/01 -0400, Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM wrote: > >1) If there's inventory of the Rev Cycle left in stock - Get rid of > > >it. Let > >it drop from the sight of man > > Why on Earth would SJ Games throw away money? I dunno... considering the quality that people have charitably assigned to it, it would seem that the Rev Cycle is *already* money thrown away. (Although I don't see SJG doing that anyway.) - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:01:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:58:54 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." >Archangel Janus has accepted your petition to enter >his service, Moe. I certainly _hope_ so: he's gotten enough NPCs off of me - /and/ a Minor Choir, even. Don't bind the mouths of the kine, and all that. :) Moe Who sees himself more of a ... hmm. Who _is_ my inner Archangel?* *Canonical, that is. _Non_-canonical ... well, Mending's got that one sewn up. ;) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:04:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Hard to Describe Thing, Part I Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:03:23 -0700 From: "Marcus Evenstar" Subject: Re: IN> Hard to Describe Thing, Part I >> This is a good thing: it will allow you to properly >>emphasize with your charges." >>^^^^^^^^^ >I do believe you meant to write "empathize" up there. D'OH! This is why second drafts good, overreliance on spellcheckers bad. Thanks: that might have been missed, even on HTMLization. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:13:01 -0700 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo Phillip wrote: > > it has effects similar > > to the Song of Nimbus with the twist that the sufferer has > > no control over it. > > Good point. I'd selected Halo simply because of the effects. Unfortunately, > I wouldn't know anything about the Song of Nimbus. (I've only got the basic > book. Have pity on an unworthy blasphemer. :::)) Unworthy blasphemers can ask to borrow the relevant book from a friend who has all the IN books, as the unworthy Blasphemer ought to know (but only one of each; return them in good condition or expect a visit from Malakim of the Archives (just out of curiosity, how long would i have to baby-sit in order to borrow those malakim?)) - -Daiv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:14:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Superiors and Death Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:03:38 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Superiors and Death >I like to think he hollowed Genubath out like a cow >and is wearing the Prince of Rapine like a skin, the >Prince of Rapine himself down to one Celestial and 0 >Ethereal Forces but a *lot* of Corporeal and >Word Forces.... And here I thought that _I_ had the Weirdest Valefor Origin Theory. Only goes to show. >But then, I'm sick. You think, Eric? ;) Moe PS: No, wait! Valefor is really the Metratron, reconstituted and understandibly annoyed that nobody ever bothered to write up his Servitor Attunements for canon! It all makes sense, now! :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:27:57 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Lane" To: Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 12:01 AM Subject: Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." > Who sees himself more of a ... hmm. Who _is_ my inner > Archangel?* Well, mine is (as everybody already knows) Michael. It explains many of my better-known personality traits. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 03:42:31 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ > >You mean, Jesus yelling that or the Romans actually deciding to cut him > >down? The former, I think, is much more likely than the latter. > > > >Later. > >Jonathan > > Both parts seem unlikely, depending on how much Eli had influenced Jesus, > and the Romans would't have done it either. Even such of his own followers > as were about probably would have lost faith in him after saying such a > thing, and not done it. > > William IIRC, Jesus doesn't ask God why He abandoned him in one of the four books (John, is it?) - -Perry, Kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. " - --Dick Cavett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:11:32 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen > > > > >From: "Perry Lloyd" > > > >Casca, you crack me up. > > Actually, Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman crack you up. I was stealing > shamelessly from Good Omens. you bastard . . . you bastard with such good taste . . . > >Impudites . . . what *are* Impudites . . . > > Excellent when served as a creamy spread upon a savory cracker. very good taste . . . - -Perry, K-F-C perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Mmmmm . . . Impudite . . ." - --Haagenti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 04:16:00 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo > > Uh . . . doesn't spending Essence normally have this kind of effect > anyway? > > *Flips through some pages* Oh, bloody hellfire. You'd think I'd get -one- > idea that hadn't been done. > > > > -Perry, K-f-C > Kunou Fan Club? tee hee hee, try again!! > -Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel hey, that's better than trying to reinvent the Ofanite . . . seeing as how GOD made the Ofanite. - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:56:19 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... >From: "Charles Glasgow" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: >Subject: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and >advice-callings)... >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:27:22 -0500 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Maurice Lane" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 11:05 PM >Subject: IN> April 17, 18, 20 (ML) > > >[snip] > > You never know, with PCs. Heck, they > > might decide to take over both groups and set up a > > professional wrestling federation. You just never > > know. > >No bloody kidding, Moe. I just spent four hours today taking a new IN >player in a solo session with his second angel. (His first was that >Malakite detective concept... which got abandoned when he discovered >something *new* to play.) > >A Kyriotate. > >Of *Lightning*. > >What the *HELL* was I *THINKING*?!? (I was thinking that I didn't want to >send a new player fleeing from my table muttering about "overly restrictive >DMs", that's what. But still.) > >I swear to God, we must have rolled 90 separate attempts to possess objects >in that total time span. He is so lucky that his only Intervention was >Divine... (I ruled that since he really needed at the time to commence a >prolonged surveillance of one subject that he could just ignore the usual >limit and stay in that particular inanimate object -- the target's shirt -- >until next sunrise. Moe, do you have as much trouble coming up with good >Divine and Infernal Intervention results as I am having?). > >And yes, I did have to explain -- several times -- that while targets >cannot >dodge their underwear, they can remind you of that part in the rules that >says certain Corpus cannot be evoked unless the object you're in already >has a mouth. Thank you, O writers of GURPS IN, for making sure that bit >of >errata got in there! > >Anyway, the point of this rant is this... anybody more experienced here got >tips on how to exercise Kyriotate Control while still letting people have a >good time? Urgh. I don't allow the Kyrio of Lightning attunement in my games. Normal Kyrios (even Destiny, which has one of the more powerful attunements) are not so bad, because they are bound not to harm their hosts, and demons tend to have high willpower -- which is good for resisting possession. I know players seem to like the underwear thing, but it is going to turn a game silly very quickly. It's also a bit boring if it becomes the favored technique whenever enemies are encountered. OTOH, if it's a good strategy that works, they will keep doing it. The canon answer is probably to let the demons use a lot of Kyrio catchers (ie. relics that can trap a hapless kyrio if he tries to possess them), which won't help if the targets are unlikely to have access to them. Maybe allow a demon to drop back to Hell if the Kyrio possesses their clothing, taking the Kyrio (or at least part of it) with him, and trapping it there. Now, you do have the option of tightening up some house rules about what inanimate objects can and can't do when possessed (but yeah, this is likely to irritate players if they feel you are castrating the only power they actually wanted.) For example, it might be that simply inhabiting an inanimate object doesn't allow an angel to do anything that the object couldn't do. ie. move under its own volition if it has no moving parts, unless the angel has Songs of Ethereal Motion at a high enough level to allow use without singing or movement. You could rule that he can't possess anything he can't see (or hear, given that they can possess people over the phone), if you aren't happy with that. Alternately, have the demons use methods that don't require direct meetings. Sure, the Kyrio can possess a bomb and defuse it (probably), but he has to find it first. Give them a mix of enemies they can't see, as well as ones who they can. Sorry not to be more help. It's a game breaking power if the player wants it to be. > >Is it really unbalancing to have Lucifer pretending to be Eli to the PCs if >he's *not* using his Balseraphic resonance? Nope. If you're going to have Lucifer show up at all, don't sweat the small stuff. Unless someone rolls a divine intervention when talking to him, assume he can do pretty much anything he wants. Or rather, it isn't necessarily unbalancing if he has a good reason to do it. It isn't all that difficult to pretend to be someone else if you can duplicate all their powers and have a little skill at acting (and are one of the two most powerful beings in the universe.) An archangel could probably (but not definitely) spot the difference, but even that isn't guaranteed. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2182 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.