From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Apr 26 13:14:00 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12307 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:14:00 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id NAA23079 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:18:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:18:49 -0500 Message-Id: <200104261818.NAA23079@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2183 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 26 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2183 In this digest: IN> Just followed the link for amusement... Re: IN> About defaults and skills IN> PCs can drive you insane Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... Re: IN> Murdering Superiors Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen Re: IN> Re: EPG Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings).. Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen Re: IN> Where is god? Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and a Lucifer/Eli plot) IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Eli the Christ (death and reincarnation) Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings).. Re: IN> Murdering Superiors Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... Re: IN> About defaults and skills Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> The Eli is dead theory Re: IN> DO NOT - Come whine with me! Re: IN> About defaults and skills Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:27:58 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> Just followed the link for amusement... >>**A note from Jack Chick, concerned about the speck in your eye: "It only takes one error to disprove the Qur'an. That's right. Just one little error and the whole book goes down in defeat! You have just discovered one irrefutable error in the Qur'an. What are you going to do about it?" But you have to love what Chick says a paragraph above it: "The more closed minded they are, the more fanatical they become in their religion. When ignorance unites with arrogance, fanaticism is born." Gee, Jack...ever hear of the pot calling the kettle black? And I have yet to see Muslims or Jews going door to door telling me how I'm damned to hell unless I convert...Ooops! Hell doesn't exist in the Jewish faith! Nevermind! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:48:16 -0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: Re: IN> About defaults and skills >From: "Janet Anderson" >If a character doesn't have a skill, it ordinarily defaults to the >characteristic governing the skill, right? And sometimes it has a minus. yup. >According to the rule book, languages are governed by Intelligence. This >seems to mean that a celestial with an intelligence of 12 would know any >language at a skill of 8 (because, if I recall correctly, trying to speak a >language you don't know has a -4 penalty). > >Is this right?* technically... but... I rule (certainly for languages) that not having that skill means you can only recognise it with a sucessful roll, and maybe speak it pidgin. Also, I Apply the penalty to the check digit as well as the stat, thereby making not only the chance of success lower, but also the potential magnitude too. It works quite neatly. for reference, i made this modification when i had a player who had read the rules ignore purchasing any levels of fighting skill, to concentrate on songs, and then reasoned that with a high enough Str (10) it wouldn't matter. >**(she said innocently, looking at her character sheet ...) see above :) - -FallenSeraph "I still believe in God, but He no longer believes in me..." http://eternalcity.freeservers.com ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:51:12 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> PCs can drive you insane I won't let my husband play a Kyriotate if and when he joins my new game. I've seen what he does with them in other games, so I drew the line. I love him and all that, but he *does* have powergaming inclinations ... But if we're collecting "you never know what the PCs will do" stories, here's mine ... We have this party of three, who've been through one adventure already and know each other. I've always thought the generic "your Superiors want you to solve X, and here are your teammates" introduction was boring and I designed a different lead-in for each character. Then one of the characters decided she didn't like one of the other characters (despite the fact that she'd adventured with him before with no problem), and threw a series of Major Hissy Fits. The other character observed, with considerable unhappiness, that he knew when he was not wanted and prepared to leave. At this point the third character suggested that he wanted to prevent the second character's departure by pulling a gun ... At this point I called a HOLD and asked the character if he was absolutely sure he wanted to pull a gun on a Cherub of Stone who was already in a foul mood ... and it did not take him long to agree that this was a very bad idea and retract this action. (Good thing, too. I was planning on using Beth's "bend gun into pretzel" trick, which would have been hard for him to explain to his superiors in the police department. And knowing this character, I am certain he would have lost his temper and attacked the Cherub of Stone. Who would, under any other circumstances, have responded by picking the guy up and tossing him onto the sofa to cool off. But who was in a *very* foul mood ...) The moral: Stick to the boring generic introductions. There's probably a reason why they're so popular. If you give PCs an opportunity to reject something that it's important they accept, one of them (at least) will do so, all **** will break loose, and you will end up wanting to kill them all off and start over with new characters. Janet Anderson (venting here rather than in the game) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 06:07:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... - --- Charles Glasgow wrote: > Is it really unbalancing to have Lucifer pretending to be > Eli to the PCs if > he's *not* using his Balseraphic resonance? (Because he > doesn't want the > Archangel-style brain-straining his patsies are gonna go > through later to > show up any detectable traces of Infernal Intervention, > Lucifer is doing > this entirely with his tongue, not his resonance or > attunements or Songs or > *anything* else. Hey, when you wanna frame Eli for > something really bad, it > needs to be a *good* frame.) Unbalancing? I don't think so. Funny as Hell (pun intended)? Absolutely. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:41:42 -0400 From: Jason Schneiderman Subject: Re: IN> Murdering Superiors > From: "Charles Phipps" > BTW Meserach WE DO NOT KNOW did not fight back and the idea that he didn't > is IMO ridiculous. <would > be to go against the nature of his own Word. >> > That's like saying Fleurity must use drugs, as failing to do so would go > against the nature of his Word. (For the benefit of anyone without > Superiors 4: Fleurity's expanded writeup indicates he never touches > drugs himself.) We don't know what Meserach's dissonance conditions > were--but if he couldn't defend himself, he'd never have lived to be > killed by Haagenti. Hm. A workaholic, patronizing Meserach, reinforcing the word of Sloth by taking all the work out of Humanity's hands. "No... don't waste any effort doing that... let me take care of it... you just sit back and relax..." You can't improve yourself -- and, by extension, achieve your Destiny -- without effort. Not precisely right for my campaign, but an interesting take. * * * * * Jason Schneiderman, Editor, EDITORIAL HUMOR. E-mail: edhumor@tiac.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:15:02 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen From: "Perry Lloyd" > > > > >From: "Perry Lloyd" > > > >Impudites . . . what *are* Impudites . . . > > > > Excellent when served as a creamy spread upon a savory cracker. > > very good taste . . . Not if it's an Impudite of the Game. They're too dry and stringy. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:15:02 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen From: "Perry Lloyd" > > > > >From: "Perry Lloyd" > > > >Impudites . . . what *are* Impudites . . . > > > > Excellent when served as a creamy spread upon a savory cracker. > > very good taste . . . Not if it's an Impudite of the Game. They're too dry and stringy. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:15:02 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen From: "Perry Lloyd" > > > > >From: "Perry Lloyd" > > > >Impudites . . . what *are* Impudites . . . > > > > Excellent when served as a creamy spread upon a savory cracker. > > very good taste . . . Not if it's an Impudite of the Game. They're too dry and stringy. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:19:46 -0400 From: "Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM" Subject: Re: IN> Re: EPG Andrew Hackard wrote: > At 02:05 PM 04/25/01 -0400, Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM wrote: > >1) If there's inventory of the Rev Cycle left in stock - Get rid of > >it. Let it drop from the sight of man > > Why on Earth would SJ Games throw away money? Well, because they're still paying money on it. Under U.S. laws, you people pay taxes on inventory - so if you have $5000 of supplements it will take you ten years to sell, you'll be paying taxes on those supplements for ten years. White Wolf has dealt with this issue once or twice before by PULPING truckloads of product. What I'm proposing lets SJG not only get rid of that tax expense - but write off the material as a Promotional item, getting a tax benefit instead of a tax loss. > >3) Have a set of supplements if not in the can and ready to print, as far > >along as you can get it - and send out with the demo teams a list of these > >supplements and projected release dates. > > That's simply not going to happen. Except in very rare cases, it's SJ > Games' policy not to announce supplements far in advance, because we > really honestly do try to avoid slippage in our announced releases - it > annoys the distributors, retailers, and fans, and we don't like doing that. Not even "Q1 - 2002?" as a date - the idea being to show the retailers and players that this isn't a "flash in the pan" - that the line is going to be supported. Granted I don't see enough of the gaming industry from the business end, but I've been demoing product for game companies for six years now. (SJG for five). I like to think that does give me some lnsight into the way things work. Joseph Paul Rocchi SJG Mib #1867 - Toronto Cell leader, Former RD Canada AEG BH #029 Former White Wolf Silver Pack member ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:19:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ Perry Lloyd wrote: > IIRC, Jesus doesn't ask God why He abandoned him in one of the > four books (John, is it?) The cry of "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" is at Matthew 25:46 and Mark 15:34, It is, by the way, the opening line of Psalm 22. The psalm starts in despair but ends on notes of triumph. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:37:31 From: "Kish Moore" Subject: Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings).. <> So he's going to impersonate Eli without ever lying? Sounds extremely difficult--probably not so hard for Lucifer, but hard for a GM trying to play him. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:50:57 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen >From: "Prodigal" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >Not if it's an Impudite of the Game. > >They're too dry and stringy. ;;;) > Right. You're on the list. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:56:50 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen From: "Jo Hart" > > >From: "Prodigal" > >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > > >Not if it's an Impudite of the Game. > > > >They're too dry and stringy. ;;;) > > Right. You're on the list. Of course - If I wasn't, my message wouldn't have posted to the... Oh, wait, you're not talking about the In Nomine list right now, are you? ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:41:29 EDT From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Where is god? Daiv wrote: <> Actually, the chance for an intervention period is 1 in 108, while a specific intervention is 1 in 216. Sam in service to the Demon of Statistics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:07:25 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and a Lucifer/Eli plot) >So he's going to impersonate Eli without ever lying? No, he's just going to impersonate Eli without ever actually using his resonance, merely his skills. While normal Balseraphs always believe that they're telling the truth, the GMG's advice on Lucifer seems to indicate that the First Balseraph is as capable of telling a knowing lie as he is of anything else. (The reason he's doing is this because he *wants* his patsies to get absolutely brain-strained by Dominic later, and Lucifer is taking *no* chances that Dominic might get lucky and somehow pick up on the psychic stink of an Infernal Intervention... hence, Lucifer is going to be avoiding any direct application of diabolic resonances or songs on the mind of his dupe. If it ain't there, it can't risk being discovered. A rationalization, I know, but when you're dropping Lucifer on PCs and trying not to make it a total hose-job, you have to rationalize why Lucifer isn't really exerting any of his power, only his native guile.) >Sounds extremely difficult--probably not so hard for Lucifer, but hard for >a GM trying to play him. Well, given that it is Lucifer, I'm going to feel free to ignore the rules whenever they get in my way. The whole point of this encounter is that "Eli", after suitably leading the PCs up to it over a period of time, is going to ask them to do something that would be a *Really Bad Idea*, [1] giving the cause of Heaven all kinds of trouble (and not incidentally framing Eli for the crime of the millennium). However, since Lucifer has got a reason to avoid the Jedi Mind Trick like the plague, it actually will be up to the players as to whether or not they choose to go along with the request. While the request will be (of course) presented as persuasively and misleadingly as possible, their free will will not be taken away. That's why I'm thinking it was fair to drop Lucifer on PCs to begin with. [1] I'm still working on the exact details. Right now, the general shape of it is that "Eli" is going to try to convince the PCs as to the necessity of breaking the stalemate between Heaven & Hell -- for Heaven's own greater good, of course -- by going to the Vatican and bringing in certain selected parties on the whole War thing. Heavenly manifestations and glowing wings a plus. Preferably late at night where nobody can see them. Oh, and make sure to ask them to move to serve Heaven's cause by taking this, this, and thus actions. Of course, "Eli" can't use any of his own Servitors for this -- Dominic has them all under surveillance. (Or so he says.) Of course, "Eli" can't go himself -- the Vatican is monitored, and his presence there would be spotted no matter how carefully he tried to cloak it. (Or so he says.) Three 9-Force angels, OTOH... Lucifer considers it a win-win strategy, anyway. If they get caught, Eli gets tried for major heresy. If by some miracle they succeed, Heaven takes one right in the 'nads *and* Eli gets tried for major heresy. (Of *course* Lucifer knows where Eli is -- it took 'em 49 years to find him, but Hell finally found Eli. If Lucifer didn't know where Eli was, he couldn't dare to impersonate him. And as soon as Eli's on the hook for the crime of the millennium, Judgement is going to find out where Eli is too.) And as soon as Eli is wrongfully convicted and punished (suffice it to say that the party are not the only pieces of evidence that Lucifer is carefully faking... merely the biggest)... no, no, no. Eli isn't going to Fall. Even if Heaven unjustly rains all over his parade. Lucifer knows him better than that. OTOH, if somebody later clued Dominic in on just how enormous a mistake he'd made it would really depress his outlook on life, don'tcha think? Dominic has an extremely low ability to forgive himself for when he slips up. And *nobody* knows that more than Lucifer. Even if Dominic doesn't drop straight to Balseraphdom out of sheer self-denial of the reality of what he's done, he'll still be so overriden with guilt that Asmodeus should have no problem mind-jobbing him for the next century, 'cause he won't exactly be in the best of shape to concentrate. Or that's Lucifer's plan, anyway. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:18:12 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Come to think of it ... Is throwing a person dissonant for a Servitor of Stone? Earlier, I described my Cherub of Stone as possibly picking someone up and throwing him onto a sofa to subdue him. I wouldn't consider this a ranged attack by any stretch of the imagination (even if the sofa was across the room). Nor would I call throwing a demon against the wall or dashing him against the sidewalk a ranged attack. I'd only call it that if he threw the demon at *another* demon or at something else he wanted to damage. Is this correct, or am I being too easy? (This PC is currently an NPC since I'm now the GM, so I want to be careful in all things pertaining to him.) Responses, especially canon ones, would be appreciated. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:24:39 -0400 From: Jonathan Walton Subject: Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." >> Archangel Janus has accepted your petition to enter >> his service, Moe. > > I certainly _hope_ so: he's gotten enough NPCs off of > me - /and/ a Minor Choir, even. Don't bind the mouths > of the kine, and all that. Then again, that's all balanced out by what you did to him in Tattered. I don't really think Janus is happy with you at this point, all told. Later. Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:28:18 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... > I'd only call it that if he threw the demon at *another* demon or at > something else he wanted to damage. Did the demon that was grabbed attack the Servitor of Stone in the first place? If he didn't that *might* violate the Dissonance condition of not attacking first. Also there is the matter that bare hands are being used (Pick up demon, throw it into another). "Ranged weapons" applies more to bows, crossbows, throwing knives, rifles, guns, etc not flying bodies. Not only that, but I think David would get a chuckle out of it all. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:34:16 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... From: "Janet Anderson" > Is throwing a person dissonant for a Servitor of Stone? > I'd only call it that if he threw the > demon at *another* demon or at something else he wanted to damage. That would be my take on it., also - as long as the intent in throwing a person isn't to harm someone or something else, no dissonance should occur. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:38:02 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ (death and reincarnation) > Dominic's Cherub, Kyriotate, and Mercurian attunements allow these angels > to harm someone they normally wouldn't be able to harm, under the > appropriate conditions. In a recent change of heart I had about Dominic, I Where does all that dissonance go? *ominous thunder* > William Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:46:34 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." >Moe >Who sees himself more of a ... hmm. Who _is_ my inner >Archangel?* Heh. Hehehehehehehh. Folks, I had dinner with Moe last Friday. He's... interesting. More to follow. - -- Casca "Don't piss off the Harpers," my friend Ruth tells me. But I scoff at such advice. Scoff, scoff. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:49:43 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ > Actually, yes, I like this *much* better than just the flat "Eli is/isn't > Jesus" declaration. I'm saving this post, to better muse upon it later, > should the need come up for me to judge such a thing IMC... Wasn't there a popular "Jesus is a Soldier of creation with both Servitor Attunements" theory? That'd explain his abilities and his final words. > Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! > Meow! Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:50:25 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings).. <> >So he's going to impersonate Eli without ever lying? Sounds extremely >difficult--probably not so hard for Lucifer, but hard for a GM trying to >play him. Well, assuming that Lucifer is still a Balseraph and must obey the constraints of the Band . . . he wouldn't be capable of Lying. What he might do is believe that he's Eli, and just not use his Resonance actively upon the others to persuade them of this (because, well, Eli would never do such a thing, right?) - -Perry, Kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:33:51 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Murdering Superiors [DP of Sloth] > Hm. A workaholic, patronizing Meserach, reinforcing the word of Sloth by > taking all the work out of Humanity's hands. "No... don't waste any effort > doing that... let me take care of it... you just sit back and relax..." You > can't improve yourself -- and, by extension, achieve your Destiny -- > without effort. > > Not precisely right for my campaign, but an interesting take. > > * * * * * > Jason Schneiderman, Editor, EDITORIAL HUMOR. E-mail: edhumor@tiac.net Oooooh. I /like/ that. - -Perry, kfc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be. " - --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:36:32 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> The Words of the Fallen > > > >Impudites . . . what *are* Impudites . . . > > > > > > Excellent when served as a creamy spread upon a savory cracker. > > > > very good taste . . . > > Not if it's an Impudite of the Game. > > They're too dry and stringy. ;;;) Yeah, but Impudites of the Game are so good if you Dice them. tee hee hee - -Perry, KfC perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. " - --Dick Cavett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:10:15 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... > Anyway, the point of this rant is this... anybody more experienced here got > tips on how to exercise Kyriotate Control while still letting people have a > good time? I have an honest player who played a Kyriotate of Jean who did her own roles, and then looked up and said, "I just rolled to possess such-and-such and got a 1 on the check digit" or whatever -- admitting everything up to failures and interventions, both good and bad. Or give them collective rolls -- let them possess items for a static amount of time (3 minutes?) and let their check digit say how many items they can possess before they have to roll again. Or make possessing items cause 1 note of disturbance. That's a major change, though. Or let the Kyriotate possess for days instead of minutes, just like a normal possession -- that's not so unbalancing. > Is it really unbalancing to have Lucifer pretending to be Eli to the PCs if > he's *not* using his Balseraphic resonance? (Because he doesn't want the Hell, I still want to do a game where Lucifer impersonates a minor character and adventures with the PCs for weeks, and then reveals himself and leaves or something. Go for it. Lucifer is ineffable and powerful, he can do anything. Almost. > Chuckg Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> About defaults and skills - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > If a character doesn't have a skill, it ordinarily > defaults to the > characteristic governing the skill, right? And sometimes > it has a minus. Yup. > This > seems to mean that a celestial with an intelligence of 12 > would know any > language at a skill of 8 (because, if I recall correctly, > trying to speak a language you don't know has a -4 > penalty). While I don't know the exact penalty and don't have books with me, that's what a strict interpretation of the rules would say. I wouldn't allow it, though. > Does this also work with other skills such as, for > example, fighting skills > governed by Strength?** Yes, but these aren't quite so cheesy. > *Personally I would only allow this with languages in the > same family as > ones the celestial already knows -- Romance, Germanic, > Slavic, etc. Sounds reasonable to me. > I'd > allow English to count as both Romance and Germanic.) I wouldn't. English is definitely in the Germanic group. While it borrows heavily from Latin and to a lesser degree from French and Spanish, the grammar and syntax are still classically Germanic. Besides, only allowing each language to count as part of one language group keeps down knowledge-monkey munchkinism. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:11:16 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> [Rant] Irrelevancy (and yet more new-DM ramblings and advice-callings)... At 11:27 PM -0500 4/25/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >A Kyriotate. > >Of *Lightning*. Oh-yeah. Our first group had/has one of those. With the Song of Acid, even. Ever see a ceiling do a rain of acid? >And yes, I did have to explain -- several times -- that while targets cannot >dodge their underwear, they can remind you of that part in the rules that >says certain Corpus cannot be evoked unless the object you're in already >has a mouth. Thank you, O writers of GURPS IN, for making sure that bit of >errata got in there! Hrm? Sorry 'bout that. I would have pointed to the Song of Transferral, which is fairly indicative of that theme. (Also "unclear cases," p. 156.) I'd have to check the original draft; I'd thought I'd put something in, or meant to put something in. Might have gotten trimmed for space. Oh, there it is. p. 95, in the Kyrio description. Whew. >Anyway, the point of this rant is this... anybody more experienced here got >tips on how to exercise Kyriotate Control while still letting people have a >good time? Force Catchers. Lots and lots of Force Catchers. Draconic enforcement of bad results that lock out the resonance. Rolling with the punches. (Have you read about Sephar, in Maya's Fiat Justitia game?) This will, of course, make your Kyrio of Lightning (like Sephar) yearn for Remote Control -- in which case you start rolling with the punches. (Basically, Kyrios of Lightning are really obnoxious, but you can work around them if you _plan_ for them to be obnoxious. You can even make Kyrios work _for_ you by having them spying on people who suddenly move the time table up before the PCs carefully laid plans are ready!) If it's the Acid Underwear trick, then don't have wimpy-vesseled enemies (and remember that they have to possess the pants _first_, and _then_ the underwear) -- and let them rip the Acid-weakened underwear off quickly. GIN rules regarding fright checks and destruction of inanimate hosts should definitely apply to ripped underwear. (Yes, there was a Balseraph who stripped down entirely in a fight with us... Then Balseraphed the cops who showed up with a story about terrorists with acid-spraying guns.) After thwacking the PC over the head a few times with the Liber Canticorum, praise your lucky stars that it's not a Kyriotate of Animals. Just think of a _flea_ with Song of Acid. (*bounce* "AAARRRGH!" *bounce*) >Oh, and one last question. > >Is it really unbalancing to have Lucifer pretending to be Eli to the PCs if >he's *not* using his Balseraphic resonance? Hm. Technically, he should be unable to _lie_ without Balseraphing them. So he'd have to be using misdirection. He can cloak himself in Superior ineffability, which will thwart resonances, but the PCs may wonder why he's bothering to do that. (Or they might not.) If they have a chance, however bare, to use Detect Lies on him (like, with a crit success or a 111), then it's not _too_ mean. (If the GM -has- to rule that Lucifer self-resonanted without actually exerting his Believe Me aura on the PCs, then okay -- but they'll kick themselves harder if you did it with only misdirection.) And when the sham is exposed, be sure to have him offer them each a boon. For some reason, one of my more angelic-aligned PCs got very twitchy when Lucifer offered her a boon. He gave her a necklace, too (a little glass flame pendant), in case she changes her mind about turning him down. At 8:56 AM -0400 4/26/01, Jo Hart wrote: >For example, it might be that simply inhabiting an >inanimate object doesn't allow an angel to do anything that the object >couldn't do. ie. move under its own volition if it has no moving parts, Fortunately, those are already in GIN. Bricks just sit there. (Though one could be meaner about garden hoses with house rules.) >Alternately, have the demons use methods that don't require direct meetings. >Sure, the Kyrio can possess a bomb and defuse it (probably), Electronics Operations skill! O:> (IOW, don't let characters say things like, "I possess the bomb! I turn myself off!" without knowing _how_ to do it, unless it's a really simple bomb. Possessing computers won't necessarily get you past encryption, etc.) At 4:07 PM -0400 4/26/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >Of course, "Eli" can't use any of his own Servitors for this -- Dominic has >them all under surveillance. (Or so he says.) Use, "I can't use any of my own Servitors -- they'd surely be spotted and detained." (Would demons be able to get through? Naaahhhhh. Not a lie!) >Of course, "Eli" can't go himself -- the Vatican is monitored, and his >presence there would be spotted no matter how carefully he tried to cloak >it. (Or so he says.) Three 9-Force angels, OTOH... "I can't do it myself -- I'd be spotted. Dominicans can be very perceptive, you know." See? You don't need to self-resonate, even. At 11:10 AM -0600 4/26/01, Ben Glickler wrote: >Or let the Kyriotate possess for days instead of minutes, just like a normal >possession -- that's not so unbalancing. Or hours, maybe? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:11:18 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ At 5:32 PM -0400 4/25/01, Jonathan Walton wrote: [...] >the Archangel to do so. Of course, perverting the Kyriotate resonance like >that is not a great idea, even for an Archangel, Oh, interesting idea. O:> (You could do this with a penitant Shedite of the Game, you know -- he found a Holy Man and slipped inside to hide out... But, being repentant, he didn't corrupt -- and did not need to -- but instead kept re-possessing him and suggesting nice things to do...? And wouldn't _that_ get funky. Maybe the Shedite, afraid of the pain to come, slipped out into someone else... A soldier, perhaps? Gave into Shedite nature for a moment to "kill" the old host? Now, with Songs of Entropy to suit, wanders in that soldier host, seeking to atone...? Okay, so this is garbled and incoherant. It's a stream of consciousness. Have fun with it, and just think about PCs on a Quest for the only celestial who knows the Real Truth...) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:53:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> The Eli is dead theory Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:08:06 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Eli is dead theory >Okay this is "Paul is dead" parody of Beetles fame. >"So your theory...THEORY is that Baal fought Eli >around the area of Gallilee and the resulting >Symphonic discord resulted in what the Bible refers >to as the great storm around Jesus's death.....Eli >dies.....and Jesus rises up to the Heavens to replace >him?" > >Amanda nods "PREETTTY much." >"RIGHHHHT." Dominic said before putting his pinky in >his mouth "O-K. I'll see what I can do." I'll join my "RIGHHHHT." to Dominic's. Not a "I absolutely refuse to even entertain this as a theory 'RIGHHHHT.'", but a "That's fragging _surreal (albeit amusing)_ 'RIGHHHHT'". :) >"They do look alike don't they?" Kronos looked "Are >you sure..." > >"I REMEMBER KILLING AN ARCHANGEL!" Ahh, poor Baal. If only he could trust his own memories. They'd believe a Prince of any other Band, but you know how it is with those wacky Balseraphs... ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:15:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> DO NOT - Come whine with me! At 8:41 PM -0400 4/25/01, Jonathan Walton wrote: >Sigh. Alright, send them to me then. We'll spam up my mailbox instead of >spamming up SJG's. Anything I get by Friday night will be combined, >wrapped up in a neat little package, and mailed off. Try to put "EPG" in >the title of your e-mails, so I can sort through them. Or you can send 'em to me, and I'll put up a web-page and send the URL, which means the result won't even be a large, massive, evil thing to land in the email box. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:17:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> About defaults and skills At 12:41 AM -0400 4/26/01, Janet Anderson wrote: >If a character doesn't have a skill, it ordinarily defaults to the >characteristic governing the skill, right? And sometimes it has a minus. Usually has a minus, actually. >According to the rule book, languages are governed by Intelligence. This >seems to mean that a celestial with an intelligence of 12 would know any >language at a skill of 8 (because, if I recall correctly, trying to speak a >language you don't know has a -4 penalty). > >Is this right?* If the GM wills it. It's one of the "don't sweat the small stuff" things; I'd give one heck of an accent... (House rules prefered, oh-yeah.) Or it can be used for a celestial who's been around a long time and forgotten more languages than you little whippersnappers know how to swear in! O:> >Does this also work with other skills such as, for example, fighting skills >governed by Strength?** Probably -- though there's only one Fighting skill; different styles are flavor, more than rules. >**(she said innocently, looking at her character sheet ...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:26:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo At 10:13 PM -0700 4/25/01, Daiv wrote: >ought to know (but only one of each; return them in good >condition or expect a visit from Malakim of the Archives (just >out of curiosity, how long would i have to baby-sit in order to >borrow those malakim?)) Equal times, I'd say -- a day of babysitting per day of lending. O:> - --Beth, Archangel of Archives http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Angels/Arcangel.Beth.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2183 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.