From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Apr 26 20:42:42 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04602 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:42:41 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA10334 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:49:45 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:49:45 -0500 Message-Id: <200104270149.UAA10334@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2184 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 26 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2184 In this digest: IN> [ADMIN] Off topic (Re: Just followed the link for amusement...) Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo IN> [minor ADMIN] Re: EPG Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Re: EPG Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Eli the Christ Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Murdering Superiors Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Re: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question Re: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Re: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question Re: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question IN> Kyrio of lightning problems (was ...) Re: IN> Kyrio of lightning problems (was ...) Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning (G:IN only) Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Re: IN> Come to think of it ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:29:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] Off topic (Re: Just followed the link for amusement...) Ah-ah-ah, folks. Jack Chick may be the equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel on this list, but unless there's _IN NOMINE_ content in your post, and not strained content, either, but real chunky content, it's off-topic. Go start shooting_chick_in_a_barrel-l if you want to do that. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:25:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo At 9:11 PM -0700 4/25/01, Phillip wrote: >> Uh . . . doesn't spending Essence normally have this kind of effect >anyway? > >*Flips through some pages* Oh, bloody hellfire. You'd think I'd get -one- >idea that hadn't been done. But it doesn't do it _constantly_, as the Discord does, right? (I just skimmed it as I forwarded it, I could be wrong...) - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:33:11 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [minor ADMIN] Re: EPG [Rocchi & Hackard stuff snipped] Note that the business end of things is starting to slide a little into something that could get boring for other people... But please copy me on it if it gets taken to email, 'cause I wanna watch! O:> - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:36:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... At 4:18 PM -0400 4/26/01, Janet Anderson wrote: >Is throwing a person dissonant for a Servitor of Stone? If he's not throwing the person at another person, then the only person being thrown is endangered -- and he's clearly at point-blank range and can therefore attack the Cherub right back in normal honorable melee combat. So I think you're safe there. It's probably not a Stonie's _favored_ attack (well, maybe pavement slams), but it shouldn't be dissonant unless someone gets hurt by the hurtling victim. (And yeah, don't forget the attacking first thing. Though if it's a playful "pick up and toss on sofa (or bed, for those Stonies who like Creationers)" thing, that's okay too, so long as no one gets hurt.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:40:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: EPG At 9:10 PM -0700 4/25/01, Maurice Lane wrote: >Other than that, I really do think that this could >fly. Beth, if you're compiling a list of people who >would like to see this, a d d me on. Right now, I'm letting things ferment in my little haid. - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:26:17 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > So I think you're safe there. It's probably not a Stonie's _favored_ > attack (well, maybe pavement slams), but it shouldn't be dissonant unless > someone gets hurt by the hurtling victim. Alright then... what about throwing other Stonies? You know, the other guy's standing on a second story balcony with a high power rifle. So 12 strength Malakite hurls Kyriotate of Stone (in garden gnome form) at man with gun. Is the Malakite dissonant (presuming the opponent has already shot at 'em)? After all, any concussion man with gun suffers will be due to the up-close presence of the Kyrio, so it's basically a body slam with a bit of help from the Malakite... Cheers, Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:46:47 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... > You know, the other guy's standing on a second story balcony with a high > power rifle. So 12 strength Malakite hurls Kyriotate of Stone (in garden > gnome form) at man with gun. You realize that I am now going to have nightmares about garden gnome based weaponry at this point? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:05:26 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron McCurry" To: Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:46 AM Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... > > > > > You know, the other guy's standing on a second story balcony with a high > > power rifle. So 12 strength Malakite hurls Kyriotate of Stone (in garden > > gnome form) at man with gun. > > You realize that I am now going to have nightmares about garden gnome based > weaponry at this point? YES!!!! Garden Gnome based weaponry!!! Why, look at all we have in stock! : Garden Gnome Sling Shot Garden Gnome Stone Thrower Garden Gnome Catapult Garden Gnome "Death from Above" kit Garden Gnome Rocket Launcher and much, much more! we have everything /you/ could possible want (and More!) for your Kyriotate Garden Gnome Combat Needs. It you engage in KGGC (Kyriotate Garden Gnome Combat), you Need to give us a call. - -Perry, Kyriotate of Creation serving Flowers perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "A person's character is his destiny." - --fortune cookie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:13:04 -0400 From: damienw@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Eli the Christ On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:11:18 -0400 Elizabeth McCoy writes: > And wouldn't _that_ get funky. Maybe the Shedite, afraid of the pain > to come, slipped out into someone else... A soldier, perhaps? Gave > into > Shedite nature for a moment to "kill" the old host? Now, with Songs > of > Entropy to suit, wanders in that soldier host, seeking to atone...? Certainly explains the legend of the Wandering Jew, no? - --- damienw[et]juno.com "To kill a man between panels is to condemn him to a thousand deaths." - Scott McCloud ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:23:22 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: Re: IN> "You're IMPOSSIBLE!" "Yeah, I get that a lot." >"Don't piss off the Harpers," my friend Ruth tells me. But I scoff at such >advice. Scoff, scoff. You listen to your friend Ruth. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:32:22 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Charles Glasgow wrote: > > A Kyriotate. Of *Lightning*. > > I swear to God, we must have rolled 90 separate attempts to possess > objects in that total time span. He is so lucky that his only > Intervention was Divine... (I ruled that since he really needed at > the time to commence a prolonged surveillance of one subject that he > could just ignore the usual limit and stay in that particular > inanimate object -- the target's shirt -- until next sunrise. Moe, > do you have as much trouble coming up with good Divine and Infernal > Intervention results as I am having?). > > Anyway, the point of this rant is this... anybody more experienced > here got tips on how to exercise Kyriotate Control while still > letting people have a good time? A Kyriotate of Lightning is not immune to its dissonance conditions when it is in an object; it cannot leave an object worse off than when it found it. While for living things "worse off" is usually simple to define, you need to be a little bit creative to make the dissonance condition wrt objects fun to play. What I did was to invoke teleology to explain how objects and dissonance conditions interact. All made items are made for a purpose, and IMC it would have been dissonant for an angel of Lightning to violate that purpose, not matter how humble it might be. For example, if a Kyrio of Lightning inhabited a Web server, it could not use its powers to block incoming HTTP requests from demons, because the purpose of the web server is to grant access to webbed information. It could, however, optimize the resource usage to make it able to stand up to a higher load. Conversely, it could not possess the system's firewall and crack the network wide open, because that again goes against the machine's purpose. (Computers are remarkably flexible in this regard, which is why Kyrios like them so much.) So a Kyriotate that possessed someone's underwear and then tried to eat them with it would be dissonant, since that's pretty much contrary to the purpose of underwear. It could, however, possess the hand grenade in the demon's purse and explode without dissonance, since that's what hand grenades are for. This should prevent stupid and thematically-inappropriate tricks like underwear-with-teeth, without also forbidding the fun of turning guns and bombs against their owners, and without forbidding the Kyrio from spying on demons. (Note that it's a Remarkably Bad Idea(tm) to possess a product of Vapulan mad science. Odds are that the angel will have no idea what the infernal device's real purposes are, and even if it did Jean probably wouldn't approve of them.) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:44:33 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... Perry Lloyd wrote: > YES!!!! Garden Gnome based weaponry!!! > Why, look at all we have in stock! : > > Garden Gnome Sling Shot > Garden Gnome Stone Thrower > Garden Gnome Catapult > Garden Gnome "Death from Above" kit > Garden Gnome Rocket Launcher > and much, much more! Sweet! Of course, no Stonie could operate any of them (except maybe the death from above kit) without dissonance. But all you really need is a soldier and an operating manual and you're set ^_^ Cheers, Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:47:12 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Fwd: New Discord: Halo > But it doesn't do it _constantly_, as the Discord does, right? (I just > skimmed it as I forwarded it, I could be wrong...) Actually, I was figuring the effects would last just as long as the performer was performing the Song. Actually, I can think of one -major- difference: scope. The first level of the discord might be just a little more blatant, but by the time you've got it at level 3, there isn't much hope of you hiding song usage anymore. Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel "The world has been done before, and will be done again." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:56:49 EDT From: Galen Silversmith Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... > From: Ryan Elias > Perry Lloyd wrote: > > YES!!!! Garden Gnome based weaponry!!! > > Why, look at all we have in stock! : > > > > Garden Gnome Sling Shot > > Garden Gnome Stone Thrower > > Garden Gnome Catapult > > Garden Gnome "Death from Above" kit > > Garden Gnome Rocket Launcher > > and much, much more! > > Sweet! Of course, no Stonie could operate any of them (except maybe the > death from above kit) without dissonance. But all you really need is a > soldier and an operating manual and you're set ^_^ So. If a Kyro of stone poseses a garden gnome, and then uses another possession to projectile itself, is that dissonant? =) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:44:22 +0100 From: "Genevieve Cogman" Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... >Perry Lloyd wrote: >> YES!!!! Garden Gnome based weaponry!!! >> Why, look at all we have in stock! : Okay, now where did I leave that bit of translation from INS/MV... - --- Recoverer of Garden Gnomes At the beginning of the nineties, Kobal set in motion a huge operation called, "Wild Gnomes". This consisted of mixing living garden gnomes, that is to say little demoniac familiars, into the production of their plastic alter egos in a big French firm. The operation was a success, but the Forces of Good discovered the plot too rapidly. The gnomes were caught! But not all... Some are still found in public French gardens hunting butterflies, or cutting off the tails of cats. To avoid domestic incidents, when the gnomes become too violent, team up, or hurt children, the Forces of Good have decided to recover them _all_. The angel will be one of those rare privileged few who, when night falls, dresses up all in black and sneaks illegally into French public and private gardens. Their mission consists of bringing back all the gnomes to check whether they're actually plastic. Those which aren't are cold-bloodedly eliminated. Event 1 : You've spotted them! Four gnomes. Their long sharp teeth betrayed them. All should have gone just fine, as usual. But one of them spotted you in turn, and now you've got to play it the hard way. They're armed with knives and forks, and are laughing and singing the Internationale (like their political idol...) They've kidnapped the household dog, and are barricaded in the garage... Event 2 : It would be ridiculous for an angel to be caught by the police in the middle of stealing three garden gnomes from a private garden. And it's happened. And now, whether he wants it or not, he'll be put in the same file as the Front for the Liberation of Garden Gnomes. Isn't it lucky that the Forces of Good have contacts in the police? (_Guide des Anges_, INS/MV) - --- Genevieve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:06:41 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... From: "Elizabeth McCoy" > > So I think you're safe there. It's probably not a Stonie's _favored_ > attack (well, maybe pavement slams), but it shouldn't be dissonant unless > someone gets hurt by the hurtling victim. And now I can't get the mental picture of Mr. T, soldier of Stone, out of my head... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:12:14 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... From: "Galen Silversmith" > > So. If a Kyro of stone poseses a garden gnome, and then uses another > possession to projectile itself, is that dissonant? =) Yes. But if the Kyrignomite of David jumps off a building onto a target, a case could be made against gaining dissonance. ;;;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:12:45 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Murdering Superiors > Hm. A workaholic, patronizing Meserach, reinforcing the word of Sloth by > taking all the work out of Humanity's hands. "No... don't waste any effort > doing that... let me take care of it... you just sit back and relax..." You > can't improve yourself -- and, by extension, achieve your Destiny -- > without effort. > > Not precisely right for my campaign, but an interesting take. The worst part is that I could -see- it: "The world shouldn't be troubled with responsabilities." Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel (no, not an Ofanite) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:30:44 -0700 From: "Phillip" Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... > Recoverer of Garden Gnomes Ok, that's it. I now have the starting point for that comedic IN game I've been thinking about for the past few millenia. *Mental image of a stern, tough anti-hero type Malakite recieving his orders* "You want me to hunt down -WHAT-?" Phillip, Angel of Reinventing The Wheel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:41:10 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning > A Kyriotate of Lightning is not immune to its dissonance conditions > when it is in an object; it cannot leave an object worse off than when If I recall correctly, the Angelic Player's Guide says they can. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:50:12 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... From: "Phillip" > > Recoverer of Garden Gnomes > > Ok, that's it. I now have the starting point for that comedic IN game I've > been thinking about for the past few millenia. *Mental image of a stern, > tough anti-hero type Malakite recieving his orders* > > "You want me to hunt down -WHAT-?" It'd make for a great adventure for Kyrios of Stone, though. Fighting gnome with gnome, and all that... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:48:23 -0700 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... > >Perry Lloyd wrote: > >> YES!!!! Garden Gnome based weaponry!!! > >> Why, look at all we have in stock! : > > Okay, now where did I leave that bit of translation from INS/MV... > > --- > > Recoverer of Garden Gnomes > At the beginning of the nineties, Kobal set in motion a huge operation > called, "Wild Gnomes". This consisted of mixing living garden gnomes, that > is to say little demoniac familiars, into the production of their plastic > alter egos in a big French firm. The operation was a success, but the Forces > of Good discovered the plot too rapidly. The gnomes were caught! But not > all... tee hee hee . . . - -Perry, kFc perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/llloyd.geo "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:06:36 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning > > A Kyriotate of Lightning is not immune to its dissonance conditions > > when it is in an object; it cannot leave an object worse off than > when > >If I recall correctly, the Angelic Player's Guide says they can. As does GURPS IN, which is what we're playing. Admittedly, in GURPS a Kyrio of Lightning whose host object is damaged or destroyed still has to roll the Fright Check at appropriate modifiers, but the player has bought his Will score so obnoxiously high that he's willing to risk it. I keep telling my ever-growing collection of combat monsters that the biggest challenge in the campaign will require philosophy, thinking, attention to detail, and an exploration of what it truly means to be an angel... *NOT* bigger guns! I even specifically told them in foreshadowing today -- "The biggest climax of this campaign, the biggest choice you will make, will arrive without special fanfare to let you know that it's here. It'll just happen." Do they listen? Don't look like it. They're going to hate me when Lucifer finishes misleading them down the primrose path and using them like sanitary napkins. I just know they are. But the messages just aren't getting across. OK, rant over. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:26:45 -0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning Well, if your lucky you'll end up with a group who realizes what you done and why you done it, post game, however, i think its more likely that you'll end up with a group who will whinge and whine and probly never play again. theywill feel they have been railroaded in to that sitch with no way out of it, and in part there are right to think that. Then if they do ever play any rp with you as GM/ST/WhatEver again they will be shoot first, dont bother to ask questions later type players. or even worse... "so your michael huh? yeah right" pulls gun, shoots "yes you silly thing, i created you and now i unmake you, i scatter your forces to the symphonie once more" much scattering done. :player: what did i do now? i thought it might have been satan again man... aww gimme a break, my charecter didnt think it was him, even though we were in heaven, in the war camp, he thought it was all an illusion by lucifer fre crying out loud. >I keep telling my ever-growing collection of combat monsters that the >biggest challenge in the campaign will require philosophy, thinking, >attention to detail, and an exploration of what it truly means to be an >angel... *NOT* bigger guns! I even specifically told them in foreshadowing >today -- "The biggest climax of this campaign, the biggest choice you will >make, will arrive without special fanfare to let you know that it's here. >It'll just happen." > >Do they listen? > >Don't look like it. > >They're going to hate me when Lucifer finishes misleading them down the >primrose path and using them like sanitary napkins. I just know they are. >But the messages just aren't getting across. Cass - -There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole- Murphy's Law, Combatants Edition. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:31 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question A simple one, but think carefully. Can they possess pieces of software - as opposed to the computers the software is running on? If so, what happens if the software gets copied? Or just runs another copy of itself? Could one be word-bound to a particular software title? And if one uploads oneself to a different computer? Don't all go mad at once... - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:00:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... At 11:26 AM -0700 4/26/01, Ryan Elias wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> So I think you're safe there. It's probably not a Stonie's _favored_ >> attack (well, maybe pavement slams), but it shouldn't be dissonant unless >> someone gets hurt by the hurtling victim. > >Alright then... what about throwing other Stonies? > >You know, the other guy's standing on a second story balcony with a high >power rifle. So 12 strength Malakite hurls Kyriotate of Stone (in garden >gnome form) at man with gun. Is the Malakite dissonant (presuming the >opponent has already shot at 'em)? Yes. The Kyriotate is not, though. If he had tossed the Kyriotate _onto_ the man (where the garden gnome could procede to pummel the guy), that would not be dissonant, probably -- it would have been giving a friend a boost. O:> But if the damage was done by the Kyriotate's velocity impacting the gunman, dissonant Malakite. (Kyriotates of Stone jumping off ledges in gargoyle forms to land SPLAT on people is a gray area. I mean, it should probably be dissonant because it's not really the sort of "engage foe in close combat" thing that Stone favors... But the image is just so funny that I don't have the heart to forbid it outright... Aw, heck with it. It should no more be dissonant than a flesh-vesseled Stonie jumping off a ledge to smush someone into the pavement. But the Kyrio has to stay in the gargoyle all the way down.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:06:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning At 9:06 PM -0400 4/26/01, Charles Glasgow wrote: >As does GURPS IN, which is what we're playing. Admittedly, in GURPS a >Kyrio of Lightning whose host object is damaged or destroyed still has to >roll the Fright Check at appropriate modifiers, but the player has bought >his Will score so obnoxiously high that he's willing to risk it. Go to the Basic Set -- I _believe_ that Fright Check Will rolls _cap_ at 13 or 14. (Either that, or they don't; I recall being in a great discussion with the Errata Coordinator of the time and Kromm about what it said vs what it meant. But that was a couple years ago.) But since the wording is somewhat iffy, you can evily twist it to say that. IIRC. ("Will 20? Yeah, well, you're still capped for Fright Checks.") It's the page with Fright Checks at the top of it, I _think_ just in front of the Fright Check table. >They're going to hate me when Lucifer finishes misleading them down the >primrose path and using them like sanitary napkins. I just know they are. >But the messages just aren't getting across. Hey, that's their problem. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:07:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question At 11:31 PM +0100 4/26/01, John Dallman wrote: >A simple one, but think carefully. Can they possess pieces of software - >as opposed to the computers the software is running on? No. The software has no "body." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:15:07 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question >A simple one, but think carefully. Can they possess pieces of software - > >as opposed to the computers the software is running on? > > No. The software has no "body." Could a Kyriotate of Lightning possess pages of a book and then be able to know what the pages say? If yes, then they can possess the physical part of software -- where it's written. On the other hand, you can possess a human and not be able to read their brain, unless you serve Yves, and the brain is the physical part of the human's "software"... Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:39:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning At 7:06 PM -0400 4/26/01, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >It's the page with Fright Checks at the top of it, I _think_ just in front >of the Fright Check table. No, I'm wrong. p. 93 of the GURPS Basic Set. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:22:45 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning > >It's the page with Fright Checks at the top of it, I _think_ just in > >front of the Fright Check table. > >No, I'm wrong. p. 93 of the GURPS Basic Set. Thanks! Lemme see... at a cap of 14, that's 12- Fright Check if damaged, 9- if destroyed... - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:38:34 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question At 5:15 PM -0600 4/26/01, Ben Glickler wrote: > >Could a Kyriotate of Lightning possess pages of a book and then be able to >know what the pages say? If an alleged friend writes "I am a moron" on your back when you're drunk, do you know the words are there? I'd say no, the Kyriotate doesn't know what the words of the book are when they possess the book. And certainly wouldn't know what the software encoded on a disk was. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:35:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> A different Kyriotate of Lightning question At 7:38 PM -0400 4/26/01, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 5:15 PM -0600 4/26/01, Ben Glickler wrote: >> >>Could a Kyriotate of Lightning possess pages of a book and then be able to >>know what the pages say? > >I'd say no, the Kyriotate doesn't know what the words of the book are >when they possess the book. And certainly wouldn't know what the >software encoded on a disk was. If the Kyrio "reads" each page upon it naturally, then it can know what the pages say -- but it doesn't "just know" itself while possessing the book. It actually has to read the material. (Kyriotaties of Archives have better abilities, but that's a special attunement. O:> ) So it would have to execute the programs to know what was there; if the GM allowed "reading" a CD-ROM or whatever, then the Kyrio would get... lots of 1s and 0s, which it might be able to translate. This still would be unlikely to defeat encryption. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:39:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: IN> Kyrio of lightning problems (was ...) On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Jo Hart wrote: > Urgh. I don't allow the Kyrio of Lightning attunement in my games. Normal > Kyrios (even Destiny, which has one of the more powerful attunements) are > not so bad, because they are bound not to harm their hosts, and demons tend > to have high willpower -- which is good for resisting possession. My solution to this attunement was a minor 'house rule errata', to change "objects" to "technological devices"... IOW, anything powered by ELECTRICITY. I mean, c'mon... that makes it MORE fitting for Jean, right? > I know players seem to like the underwear thing, but it is going to turn a > game silly very quickly. It's also a bit boring if it becomes the favored > technique whenever enemies are encountered. OTOH, if it's a good strategy > that works, they will keep doing it. I don't see what they could do with the underwear, personally... underwear doesn't DO anything. I mean, the attunement doesn't let you possess objects and suddenly make them walk around, as I read it. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! A crash reduces Your expensive computer To a simple stone. -- Sony Vaio-PC Haiku ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:53:35 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Kyrio of lightning problems (was ...) >I don't see what they could do with the underwear, personally... underwear >doesn't DO anything. I mean, the attunement doesn't let you possess objects >and suddenly make them walk around, as I read it. Two words. Generator attunement. *ZAP*. (It gets even worse in GURPS, because of the GURPS Compendium II rules about what happens when you do a called shot to the groin, especially with electrical shock... and honestly, it'd be darned hard explaining to the Kyrio how the underwear could possibly *miss*...) Haven't had it happen to me, yet, but that's only because the Kyrio I've got didn't have enough points left to buy it after finishing out the rest of his shopping list. And while Numinous Corpus: Fangs, Horns, Acid, and Claws require the host to already possess the relevant body part before Singing may commence, I don't think NC: Barbs does. (And may Heaven be merciful upon the poor victims if the Kyrio of Lightning somehow talks a Gabrielite into teaching him how to sing NC: Flame...) - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:12:39 -0400 From: Andrew Dawson Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning (G:IN only) At 07:06 PM 04/26/2001 -0400, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >Go to the Basic Set -- I _believe_ that Fright Check Will rolls _cap_ at >13 or 14. >But since the wording is somewhat iffy, you can evily twist it to say >that. IIRC. ("Will 20? Yeah, well, you're still capped for Fright Checks.") "Any Will roll of 14 or over is an automatic failure." p. 93, second paragraph under Will Rolls. "A Fright Check is a special type of Will roll ..." p. 93, first paragraph under Fright Checks. There is no information on Fright Checks not being subject to the cap of 14. However, there is a lot of information on bonuses that aren't really worth much unless you allow them to extend the cap (especially the +5 heat of battle bonus). In my games, I try to figure out the spirit of the rules and I allow the heat of battle bonus, for example, to extend the cap. Under a stricter reading of the rules, higher Will and any bonuses that would extend effective Will above 14 are only good for soaking up penalties to the Will roll. Thanks, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:14:08 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotates of Lightning >Well, if your lucky you'll end up with a group who realizes what you done >and why you done it, post game, however, i think its more likely that >you'll end up with a group who will whinge and whine and probly never play >again. That is a definite risk. But I can't make role-playing diamonds outta clay, and neither can I force myself to run a mindless all-action game. It's just not *in* me. Not that I don't have an aesthetic appreciation for a well-designed and played munchkin machine, mind you. Some of my prior characters, in this and other RPG's, have been little more than hyper-efficient machines for converting die rolls into inflicted damage. But even *they* had engaging personalities, if not genuine intellect. And although hammering things is really fun, my gun bunnies don't see the entire world as nails. Why can't theirs do the same? I can't believe that it's impossible to do, I've already done the proof-of-concept showing that it can. >theywill feel they have been railroaded in to that sitch with no way out of >it, and in part there are right to think that. > >Then if they do ever play any rp with you as GM/ST/WhatEver again they will >be shoot first, dont bother to ask questions later type players. Seems to be a catch-22. If I throw them nothing but random demons to use as chew toys, they'll never learn how to do anything else but shoot. Yet if I toss them straight into a Maximum Role-Playing and Use Yer 'Effin Brain Already, Awright situation... they'll never learn how to anything else but shoot? OK, now I'm stumped. >or even worse... > >"so your michael huh? yeah right" pulls gun, shoots >"yes you silly thing, i created you and now i unmake you, i scatter your >forces to the symphonie once more" much scattering done. The solution to this is to simply have Michael exercise a bit more temper control, as in... "What did you do *that* for?" "Medic, take this guy to my best Elohite psychiatrist and have them figure out what kind of shell shock is warping his brain." (Of course Michael keeps psychiatrists on-staff... to treat the post-traumatic stress disorder cases, if nothing else.) Baal, OTOH -- now he's the guy who scatters your Forces eight ways from the origin just 'cause you plinked him one. >:player: what did i do now? "Take on the undefeated heavyweight champion of the Symphony with a frontal assault? Of *course* it's going to hurt. What'd you expect?" >i thought it might have been satan again "Even if you *did* think it was Satan, what you were expecting a .45 to do to him, make him laugh? In case you slept through the briefing, the proper response to suddenly being in the presence of Lucifer or any Demon Prince is 'Invoke Your Superior At Once'. Of course, yours was already there, but hey -- at least the Invocation would've *told* you that." Fortunately for my sanity, I don't think the players I got are quite *that* dumb. If they were, I'd give up right now. >man... aww gimme a break, my charecter didnt think it was him, even though >we were in heaven, in the war camp, he thought it was all an illusion by >lucifer fre crying out loud. Trying to avoid this is one of the many reasons I'm having Lucifer deliberately play at the handicap of "No Resonance, no songs, no nuttin' but a simple Fast-Talk roll". If he were Resonating them, that'd just be too damn much... I might as well send them into a steel cage death-match with Baal holding an atom bomb. As is, Lucifer will do the *set-up*... and then it's up to them to make the choice, entirely of their own free will. And even if they make the wrong choice, they can still recover... all they have to do is figure out that Eli is being framed, and then Find The Evidence That Proves His Innocence, before Dominic bangs down the final gavel in the proceedings. Hey, a dramatic race for time to get the evidence to the courtroom... that's a classic plot, why shouldn't it work? > - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:40:41 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Come to think of it ... - --On Thursday, April 26, 2001 15:56 +0000 Galen Silversmith wrote: >> From: Ryan Elias >> Perry Lloyd wrote: >> > YES!!!! Garden Gnome based weaponry!!! >> > Why, look at all we have in stock! : >> > >> > Garden Gnome Sling Shot >> > Garden Gnome Stone Thrower >> > Garden Gnome Catapult >> > Garden Gnome "Death from Above" kit >> > Garden Gnome Rocket Launcher >> > and much, much more! >> >> Sweet! Of course, no Stonie could operate any of them (except maybe >> the death from above kit) without dissonance. But all you really >> need is a soldier and an operating manual and you're set ^_^ > > So. If a Kyro of stone poseses a garden gnome, and then uses another > possession to projectile itself, is that dissonant? =) > That sounds like a really awful tackle. =) Something like this came up during a TORG campaign where the Aylish mage was blown up the stairs and into an opponent. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Does a thrown mage count as a magic missile?") ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2184 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.