From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Apr 29 21:29:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28844 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:29:19 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA29991 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:37:23 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:37:23 -0500 Message-Id: <200104300237.VAA29991@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2189 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, April 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2189 In this digest: IN> Kitten's name IN> The Authority of Judgement Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement Re: IN> Naming the Kitten! Re: Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement Re: Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) Re: IN> Speaking of my Inner Archangel...* Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement Re: Re:Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement IN> Re: Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2187 Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement Re: Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement IN> What "roving" Judgement Triads do all day... Re: IN> What "roving" Judgement Triads do all day... Re: IN> The Angel of Geeks Re: IN> Unusual thrown weapons Re: IN> Naming the Kitten! IN> Word-bound angels of cities Re: IN> Word-bound angels of cities Re: IN> Word-bound angels of cities Re: IN> Word-bound angels of cities Re: IN> Word-bound angels of cities Re: IN> Naming the Kitten! Re: IN> Naming the Kitten! IN> Mariel's old cathedral ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:19:44 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Kitten's name Actual scene from my campaign: Dominic: Netanya seems a tad bit...HERETICAL...in her recent endeavors...I think I better do an investigation. Kitten: Meow Dominic: Quiet Sparkles. - -Charlemagne Nameing her after a great law maker just seems to defeat the purpose I think of being fluffy Oh and what if the CAT is the traitor! Yes, Netanya is a Warhawk supporter and put the cat to shuffle papers and send false memos out whenever they do weird stuff. Dominic NEVER resonates her... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:33:40 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> The Authority of Judgement In my opinion the Authority of Judgement is primarily speaking... Zero. If Janus doesn't want a servitor tried for hersay he can and will keep a servitor from being tried for heresay and respond with violence... Then it's up to the Seraphim council to ask which is right in this case Dominic vs. Janus and Dominic will have to back down if they feel he's being wrong. "Dominic's power is a mandate from the Masses!" In effect he is Heaven's judge but the rest of Heaven is his jury and while they respect his authority as Internal affairs I believe that Dominic is very careful about sending his angels to investigate heresay and while they are publically VERRRRRY pokey they do their best to avoid ticking off anyone more than they must until they are sure that they can get a sucessful trial out. at least when they're experienced. It's dissonant for them to overlook heresay but it's really just Dominic's reputation for infallibility (with a few glaring exceptions like Michael and Gabriel) which keep him in his position of judgement. They respect his ability to try. However obstruction of judgement is not a crime anymore than "obstruction of war" and Michael will indeed raise Hell and perhaps put a few angels in trauma or strip them of forces if because of their incompetance of investigating a noble Michaelite a bunch of demons get away with a cherub's attuned and hit a tether killing 12 soldiers. "But they just wanted answers!"-Dominic said. "But they were asking the wrong questions!"-Michael Especially since Michael does collaborate with demons, ALL THE TIME, feeding false information and presumably bribing quite a few of them with gifts to turn on their fellows at appropriate times. I imagine Dominic dissaproves but he doesn't think it's heresay... Also recall that not only is Michael immune to trials for Pride but all of his servitors are, Dominic has instructed them to ignore it in servitors as of Superiors 1. So a Warhawk of the War if he can avoid getting asked questions like this and that is not very difficult if they are truly willing to die/go into trauma/be soul-killed for their cause and a Seraphim of Dominic truly DOES believe they are not heretics and can CONVINCE those accusing him they are not being heretical...in effect if they can cover their arses...no one never needs be the wiser of their operations. Truly, how deeply are you going to investigate a bunch of Calabim of War killing a servitor of Novalis who was reaching out to demons? Or a servitor of dreams who is known to argue for nonviolent means against beleth's servitors getting jumped and murdered in some horrofic way by said demons. I think it's possible and very insideous. It's hard to believe Judgement would miss it but they'res alot of blood on everyone's hands on the war moves very fast that some subtle players I think could get away with it - -Charlemagne "What can happen bad, will" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:50:02 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement From: "Charles Phipps" <<"Dominic's power is a mandate from the Masses!">> Itym "God." Remember, Novalis was the first Archangel /elected/; Dominic was elevated by God. <> [...] <> [...] <> Your copy of Superiors 1, it does not resemble my copy of Superiors 1, apparently. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:59:21 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement From: "Kish" <> Marc, sorry, not Novalis. --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 02:17:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Naming the Kitten! On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Rolland Therrien wrote: > I, personally, vote for Hammurabi as a final name for the Kitten. Anyone > else want to cast their vote for one of the selected names? Nope. I'm actually rather fond of the ever-shifting names as Dominic tries them all, hoping to find a true name (maybe even a True name) for his kitten. Regardless of whether or not everyone agrees one one, I'll be thinking of a new one for every fanfic... - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "People love to be told what to do. They love not doing what they've been told even more. They love it the most when they are made to do it anyway." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 06:21:17 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) ?(In certain fanfics, she also helps >babysit Justinian/Hammurabi/Solomon/is that kitten *ever* going to decide >on >what his name is?) NB. Bronwen is a creation of fanfics also, so she only ever appears in them ;) You can ignore her in your game if you think she's pointless. (OK, I think she's a stupid idea and I'd never use her.) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 02:40:01 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement >In my opinion the Authority of Judgement is primarily speaking... > >Zero. >"Dominic's power is a mandate from the Masses!" Two words: Heavenly Judgment. Maybe it only works for crimes of murder or worse, but it's an explicit example of the Divine mandate for Dominic's actions. Remember, Dominic was elevated by God. His position and its powers were granted him by God. *Any* angel denying the validity of Dominic's judgment, or refusing to accept the sentence, is by extension in rebellion against God. >It's dissonant for them to overlook heresay but it's really just Dominic's >reputation for infallibility (with a few glaring exceptions like Michael and >Gabriel) which keep him in his position of judgement. It's not a position, it's a Word. No one's going to take away a divinely granted Word, or the authority or responsibilities that come with it. >They respect his ability to try. > >However obstruction of judgement is not a crime Sure it is, as much as obstruction of justice here on Earth, only worse. >-Charlemagne >"What can happen bad, will" William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 03:26:37 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) At 6:21 AM -0400 4/29/01, Jo Hart wrote: >?(In certain fanfics, she also helps >>babysit Justinian/Hammurabi/Solomon/is that kitten *ever* going to decide on >>what his name is?) > > >NB. Bronwen is a creation of fanfics also, so she only ever appears in them ;) > >You can ignore her in your game if you think she's pointless. (OK, I >think she's a stupid idea and I'd never use her.) Mmm -- I don't think she's stupid *or* pointless... I rather like her, and the whole concept of the aide-de-camp. And yet, I'm unlikely to ever use her in my games. For the very reason that she's successful in an important capacity. She humanizes Dominic. She makes him more sympathetic, less hard edged, less likely to be a holy terror. Which doesn't suit my needs for Dominic in my game. IMC, Judgement is a Seraph, is therefore the least human of all Choirs, and has all the sympathy of a landslide. Judgement is not kind, does not think twice and is not swayed. It is inevitable and absolute, and if that means you are crushed, that is what it means. It can be nothing but. But then, I like my Dominic Old Testament. I *am* likely to keep him with the kitten, but that's just so I can add window dressing to scenes. The cat doesn't have to humanize him. Bronwyn, as written, does. This is all *very* much My Milage May Vary, of course. - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 03:45:10 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of my Inner Archangel...* >*Oh, and, Casca? I am not 'interesting'. I am >'barking mad', thankyouverymuch. I meant "interesting" in the Chinese sense, of course. As in the curse "May you live in interesting times." I was planning on doing, um, part 1 of the writeup today, but I had to work an unexpected Saturday shift. No fear, tho. I plan to skewer you but good. ;) The only thing I ask is that you wait until *after* I've posted to exact whatever revenge you feel you need; don't get all 'pre-emptive strike' on me. - -- Casca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:59:54 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement - -----Original Message----- From: Charles Phipps To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Sunday, April 29, 2001 12:36 AM Subject: IN> The Authority of Judgement >In my opinion the Authority of Judgement is primarily speaking... > >Zero. Considering that Judgement serves as Heaven's Internal Affairs department, I'd say that gives them authority superceding most everyone else's, as far as looking for potential fallen is concerned. >If Janus doesn't want a servitor tried for hersay he can and will keep a >servitor from being tried for heresay and respond with violence... > >Then it's up to the Seraphim council to ask which is right in this case >Dominic vs. Janus > >and Dominic will have to back down if they feel he's being wrong. No, since the Seraphim Council have no word in any of Dominic's cases. The Seraphim Council didn't do anything to keep Dominic from prosecuting Michael himself, did they? >"Dominic's power is a mandate from the Masses!" Wrong: As mentionned by others, Dominic's Word was granted by God, thus his mandate is one handed by God, not the Masses. >In effect he is Heaven's judge but the rest of Heaven is his jury and while >they respect his authority as Internal affairs I believe that Dominic is >very careful about sending his angels to investigate heresay and while they >are publically VERRRRRY pokey they do their best to avoid ticking off anyone >more than they must until they are sure that they can get a sucessful trial >out. > >at least when they're experienced. > >It's dissonant for them to overlook heresay but it's really just Dominic's >reputation for infallibility (with a few glaring exceptions like Michael and >Gabriel) which keep him in his position of judgement. > >They respect his ability to try. No, they respect his Word, which makes him automatically Heaven's Judge. Dominic may not be infallible, but he's a Seraphim, which means they trust him to get to the Truth, and only the Truth, no matter the case. Sometimes, getting to the Truth is painful, and sometimes it reveals things you would've rather have not known. But getting to the Truth is necessary, because anything that's hidden might be potentially damaging to Heaven. >However obstruction of judgement is not a crime anymore than "obstruction of >war" and Michael will indeed raise Hell and perhaps put a few angels in >trauma or strip them of forces if because of their incompetance of >investigating a noble Michaelite a bunch of demons get away with a cherub's >attuned and hit a tether killing 12 soldiers. > >"But they just wanted answers!"-Dominic said. > >"But they were asking the wrong questions!"-Michael If this kind of situation occured, Dominic would deal with the troublesome Triad HIMSELF. His duty is to maintain order in Heaven, not to mess around with everyone's standard operative procedures, such as defending tethers or protected attuned. Angels get called into Investigation when not on cases, or when during down-times, when there are no possible distractions. >Especially since Michael does collaborate with demons, ALL THE TIME, feeding >false information and presumably bribing quite a few of them with gifts to >turn on their fellows at appropriate times. I imagine Dominic dissaproves >but he doesn't think it's heresay... That's not collaboration, that's applied Military Intelligence and Counter-Intelligence, which as standard methods of War. Dominic's problem with Michael was his Pride, not a quiestionning of Michael's Loyalty to God. >Also recall that not only is Michael immune to trials for Pride but all of >his servitors are, Dominic has instructed them to ignore it in servitors as >of Superiors 1. Ok, so Dominic can't look for Pride anymore. Doesn't make the Warriors immune to standard interrogations for possible traitors, which is what Dominic does on a regular basis anyways. And I'm pretty sure Michael won't give Dominic the chance to look through his own people for Traitors, by looking for and dealing with the self-same Traitors himself. Even if only because letting contaminating elements like that run wild might be bad for morale. >So a Warhawk of the War if he can avoid getting asked questions like this >and that is not very difficult if they are truly willing to die/go into >trauma/be soul-killed for their cause and a Seraphim of Dominic truly DOES >believe they are not heretics and can CONVINCE those accusing him they are >not being heretical...in effect if they can cover their arses...no one never >needs be the wiser of their operations. You really haven't been paying attention to Chuckg and I's exemples of questionning, have you? Dominic needs only ask one question: "Have you, now or at any time, been part of a conspiracy outside the regular organization of your Archangel or Word? Answer Yes or No." There is no way to double-talk your way out of a straight Yes or No question. It's either Yes or No, Black or White. And when interrogated by a Seraph, you have no option but to give the answer you know is true, because the Seraph will know anyway if you're lying. >Truly, how deeply are you going to investigate a bunch of Calabim of War >killing a servitor of Novalis who was reaching out to demons? "Calabim" of War? If Michael's started recruiting unredeemed Demons, he's got bigger problems then the interrogation of his Servitors. I think you meant something else, right? As for the case, it's a matter of killing one's fellow Angels, which is a crime tantamount to Treason, thereby putting the Offending Celestial in Dominic's court for a full Trial. And that's if Michael doesn't just pull the Truth out of him and punish the offender himself. Michael (While slamming and punching the Angel about like a rag doll): "I don't give a Damn about your explanations! I will NOT tolerate a Warrior killing his fellow Angels! Novalis and her crew are on OUR side, political differences be damned! You attack one of us Angels, you attack all of us, and especially ME!" Or a servitor >of dreams who is known to argue for nonviolent means against beleth's >servitors getting jumped and murdered in some horrofic way by said demons. Ok, then, if this is about an Angel getting killed by Demons, this isn't a matter for Judgement, this is a matter for the Sword, who will not take lightly to Demons murdering an advocate of Holy Peace. >I think it's possible and very insideous. > >It's hard to believe Judgement would miss it but they'res alot of blood on >everyone's hands on the war moves very fast that some subtle players I think >could get away with it If the Celestials involved simply kept avoiding the Angels of Judgement, I suspect that yes, such a conspiracy might remain undiscovered. But the simple fact that a number of Angels are avoiding Servitors of Judgement for routine investigations might itself be highly suspicious. Dominic is currently after Eli because he won't show up for work, after all. "If they're so Innocent, why don't they come out and say so?" - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:43:55 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: Re:Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) From: "Ben Pollack" > > Let us suppose, for instance, that the Angel in question is assigned > to guard a hotly contested Tether. It would be Very Very Bad if > the Inquisition kept him for so long that the Tether was in danger. And the Triad questioning the angel in question would doubtless remind the angel of that fact numerous times while attempting to get their questions answered. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:43:28 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolland Therrien" To: Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 8:59 AM Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement > And I'm pretty sure Michael won't give Dominic the chance to look through > his own people for Traitors, by looking for and dealing with the self-same > Traitors himself. Even if only because letting contaminating elements like > that run wild might be bad for morale. Yup. And never forget, Michael is also a Seraph. The First Seraph, AAMOF. If he's looking for the Truth, you can't hide it from him any more than you could hide it from Dominic or Litheroy. And while Michael does not have the continual I-question-you-every-week suspicion of his subordinates that Dominic has, neither does he have Dominic's sense of self-restraint or dissonance conditions. If anything arouses Michael's suspicions, he's got *nothing* holding him back from doing Whatever It Takes to get to the bottom of the mess, if he chooses to. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:56:25 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement From: "Rolland Therrien" > > From: Charles Phipps > > >Truly, how deeply are you going to investigate a bunch of Calabim of War > >killing a servitor of Novalis who was reaching out to demons? > > "Calabim" of War? I think he meant The War instead; i.e., Ba'al. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:00:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Re: Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2187 Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:26:22 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2187 >Yes...the Warhawks corrupted Judgement member is >Bronwyn Bah! ;) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:07:02 -0400 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement - -----Original Message----- From: Prodigal To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Sunday, April 29, 2001 11:00 AM Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement >From: "Rolland Therrien" >> >> From: Charles Phipps >> >> >Truly, how deeply are you going to investigate a bunch of Calabim of War >> >killing a servitor of Novalis who was reaching out to demons? >> >> "Calabim" of War? > >I think he meant The War instead; i.e., Ba'al. > In that case, Judgement has no place to interfere in the case of a Demon Killing an Angel. But you can bet the Sword will get sent in to find that Demon and Kill him with extreme prejudice... - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:24:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:39:45 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: Tips for Judgement (was Re: IN> Secret Conspiracy for In Nomine) After reading the posts and counterposts on this one, I'd have to say that while you can have secret societies in Heaven, and while you can certainly have conspiracies of every type and stripe, infiltrating Judgement itself would be almost impossible, even for conspiracies with an AA in charge... ...unless, of course, the AA was Dominic himself. Note that this doesn't require a Dark Dominic, by any means: my New Crusade stuff uses this very scenario, and for the best of motives (whether it's going to also be the best of /results/ depends on the individual campaign). Of course, there's no reason _not_ to have a Dark Dominic using the Inquisition to infiltrate all the other Words, either. :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/01/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:32:18 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolland Therrien" To: Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:07 AM Subject: Re: IN> The Authority of Judgement > >> "Calabim" of War? > > > >I think he meant The War instead; i.e., Ba'al. > > > In that case, Judgement has no place to interfere in the case of a Demon > Killing an Angel. But you can bet the Sword will get sent in to find that > Demon and Kill him with extreme prejudice... 1) And while angel deaths do happen, if it happens too often or to overly critical positions, then people might notice. I mean, when Novalis starts going "Gee, I've gotten nothing important done for the past decade because everybody who's gotten in an important or key position falls over dead... perhaps I should wonder..." -- well, then, there ya go. "Litheroy, could I have your help for a moment? Thank you, you're such a dear." (And that's assuming that she doesn't want to speak to Judgement... which, given that Novalis and Dominic aren't *really* hostile to each other, only mildly disapproving, is not necessarily true.) Gad. Servitors of Revelation. Forgot entirely about them. Secrets just don't stay secret with those mind-reading celestial blabbermouths in the house. 2) One of the things a competent counter-intelligence department does is keep tallies on the rate of "breakage" -- i.e., how often one of your guys has his or her cover blown and popped by one of their guys. If it happens too often, especially to agents in place who did nothing to give themselves away yet mysteriously got found anyway, it's time to start wondering who's leaking the personnel list. As the old saying goes -- "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action." Not to mention, of course, that in In Nomine, dead celestials *do* often tell tales... Vessel-killing an angel only gets rid of them for a little while, not forever, and it's rather difficult to soul-kill someone without them choosing to go celestial first. 3) And remember, the Warhawks conspiracy postulates that this conspiracy has successfully hid itself for *very* long time, while continually taking action throughout that time. That's the hard-to-believe part, given the literally superhuman resources and fanatical diligence practiced by Heaven's Internal Affairs bureau. That they've stayed hidden *this long*. 4) Oh, and I've forgotten demonic investigation resources. While they don't have Seraphim, they do have torture racks and a habit of arresting, interrogating, and destroying solely on the flimsiest, most paranoid, and most baseless of suspicions. And a habit of tearing some failed demons apart Force by Force until they confess why they *really* failed. Are you *sure* Asmodeus doesn't know about you already? (And let's not forget Alaemon...) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:57:46 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: IN> What "roving" Judgement Triads do all day... From p. 65 of Superiors 1. A routine check-up begins with the words "To my knowledge, there are no charges against you. We are here to gather information on your general state. If you could discuss this?" And then they ask the questions... "Are you dissonant?" "Are you Discordant?" "Do you anticipate that something might make you dissonant in the future?" "Are you comfortable in your job?" "Is there anything that you think we would be interested to know about?" (Servitors of Creation are also asked "Have you seen Eli lately?") In order, the answers they're looking for are "No, no, no, yes, no." If they get anything else -- or catch you lying about it -- then they start asking more questions. And more questions. And yet more questions. Untl they've nailed down *why* you feel that way. And those five (six) questions are straight from Sup1 canon, no mods, no revisions. Thinking upon this, I note that question #5 alone should eventually trip up every secret society member in Heaven... remember, at the higher check digits, the Seraph resonance can even pick up you lying to yourself, let alone anybody else. So if you try to pretend to yourself "Naaah, they won't *really* be interested in hearing about the secret conspiracy I'm in that I can't even tell my own Archangel about because he'd get medieval on my butt", you'd better hope that the Seraph gets lower than 4 on his check digit. Which will only happen half the time. (Seraph Check Digit 4 -- "... and you know what the subject believes the truth to be." So even if you've genuinely convinced yourself that a massive conspiracy is of no interest to Judgement, their resonance will still pick up about the massive conspiracy. ). So one out of every two times, the triad will know that you're hiding something even if you've successfully lied to yourself about its significance. Unless, of course, you suffer a strange attack of muteness. But that by itself will tip them off that you've got something to hide... and even if they are somehow prevented from filing Oobstruction Of Judgement charges, do you really want to imagine how unsuccessful you'll be at hiding anything over the long term when you've got Judgement Cherubim following you around everywhere? Incidentally, the odds of successfully beating one-in-two odds of failure ten separate times in a row are 1 in 1,024. (1 divided by 2^10, natch.) This means that any conspiracy of only ten members has odds that low to survive *one* routine check-up per member, or two check-ups each of half of its members, etc, etc. Over time, the odds of not being found out rapidly approach infinity to one against. *Rapidly*. Back to p. 65... And if a Triad *does* have reason to suspect you of something in particular, it's even worse. They start off with "You have been accused of the sin of [fill-in-the-blank]. State your innocence or guilt." And from p. 60 Judgement follows the same principle as the Code Napoleon -- you are guilty until proven innocent, not vice versa! (Fortunately, merely being able to say "I am not guilty" and having the Truth of your statement confirmed by the Symphony is considered sufficient proof. That's about the only thing that keeps the Heavenly Inquisition from being a worse horror than the Earthly one was.) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:25 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> What "roving" Judgement Triads do all day... cglasgow@hotmail.com (Charles Glasgow) wrote: > you'd better hope that the Seraph gets lower than 4 on his check > digit. Which will only happen half the time. ... > ... > So one out of every two times, the triad will know that you're hiding > something even if you've successfully lied to yourself about its > significance. It can be worse than that. If you're reluctant to allow the Seraph to get his +2 to check digit for physical contact[1], they might decide to take that as suspicious... [1] IN, p57, aka "Why Mercurian shake hands all the time" - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:25 +0100 (BST) From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Geeks aekilgore@earthlink.net (Amanda Kilgore) wrote: > Which of course begs the question of how the rest of the UF cast fits > into IN. Hey, it worked for Sluggy... Most of them seem to serve the words of Lightning or Trade, with slightly more harmony than people wording for those words in close proximity usually manage. Crud Puppy seems to be in either Death or Greed; hard to tell which. Dust Puppy, of course, is a Malakite of Lightning with a Cunning Plan. "Intelligence? No, I spent all the points on Precision." Stef is, of course, an imp in a vessel who /thinks/ he's working for Greed, but has actually fallen into the clutches of Dark Humour. Poor sucker. - --- John Dallman jgd@cix.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:00:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Unusual thrown weapons - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > If you enchant a prayer book and throw it at something > that can only be > damaged by magic, is it a magic missal? Puns like that are a crime against humor. I'm calling Dominic right now. I'm sure he'll throw the book at you. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Naming the Kitten! - --- Rolland Therrien wrote: > I, personally, vote for Hammurabi as a final name for the > Kitten. Anyone > else want to cast their vote for one of the selected > names? I vote for Hammurabi! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Holding a grudge is like being stung to death by one bee." -- William Walton (no relation) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 00:22:50 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Word-bound angels of cities I am under the impression that there is an Angel of Cities in canon. If so, what is this angel's name, Choir, and Superior? I have assumed the Superior was David, but I want to be sure. Secondly, would any Word-bound angel of a particular city (New York, Philadelphia, etc.) therefore have the Angel of Cities as immediate superior and David (or whoever it turns out to be) as Superior? Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:33:53 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> Word-bound angels of cities > I am under the impression that there is an Angel of Cities in canon. If so, > what is this angel's name, Choir, and Superior? I have assumed the Superior > was David, but I want to be sure. Here's what I found... Salem (aka Alexandria Salem) Angel of Cities Mercurian Master of Stone (Listed in Fall of the Malakim and Superiors 1) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:35:54 -0700 From: "Kish" Subject: Re: IN> Word-bound angels of cities From: "Janet Anderson" <> The Angel of Cities, Salem, Mercurian Master of Geomancy (Stone), has a full writeup in Superiors 1. <> Probably. Unless the city clearly epitomizes Judgment or War or Trade or some other Word not Stone (doesn't strike me as too likely). --Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:39:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Word-bound angels of cities On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Janet Anderson wrote: > I am under the impression that there is an Angel of Cities in canon. If so, > what is this angel's name, Choir, and Superior? I have assumed the Superior > was David, but I want to be sure. Salem, Mercurian of Stone > Secondly, would any Word-bound angel of a particular city (New York, > Philadelphia, etc.) therefore have the Angel of Cities as immediate superior > and David (or whoever it turns out to be) as Superior? I think it's almost a certainty, except under very unusual cases (i.e., a city being clearly devoted to one concept or Word). - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! "It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth...that you are a slave. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage - born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch...a prison for your mind." -- Morpheus, _The Matrix_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:16:29 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Word-bound angels of cities (The first question's already been multiply answered.) >Secondly, would any Word-bound angel of a particular city (New York, >Philadelphia, etc.) therefore have the Angel of Cities as immediate superior >and David (or whoever it turns out to be) as Superior? As *a* Superior, maybe. It's probably understood that any angel with the Word of a specific city or type of city falls under Salem's aegis, and thus under David's command. But angels from other Superiors could certainly be better candidates for this city or that one. For example, the Angel of Washington, D.C. could very easily have Dominic as a primary Superior, and Vatican City's Angel could be Laurence's. Both, however, operate on the understanding that if Salem has an order, they obey unless it conflicts with the duties given them by their own Superior. David's orders you obey anyway, unless your Superior's outright hostile. ;^) (For example, the Angel of Hollywood, poor soul, could as well be Blandine's as Eli's, and in such a case she might clear a non-urgent order from Salem or David through her own organization first.) >Janet Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:19:24 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Naming the Kitten! - --On Saturday, April 28, 2001 22:19 -0400 Charles Glasgow wrote: > (In certain fanfics, she also helps babysit > Justinian/Hammurabi/Solomon/is that kitten *ever* going to decide on > what his name is?) I don't know. I'm rather enamored of the way the name shifts every time you look away, gives the whole thing a certain style. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:24:00 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Naming the Kitten! > I don't know. I'm rather enamored of the way the name shifts every > time you look away, gives the whole thing a certain style. If anybody even *mentions* the word "Schrodinger"... - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:28:49 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Mariel's old cathedral The Clocktower The Clocktower is the former Archangel of Memory's cathedral and is the only clocktower actually in existence in this rather timeless place yet somehow it keeps Heaven's passing moments perfectly even when individuals can last a moment and others can last not at all . The place is absolutely filled with what most in Heaven would term junk and surprisingly enough there is a legend that everything good that has ever existed will find it's way to Heaven actually proves true here in the Archangel of Memories cathedral as the place is full of things destroyed in the corporeal plane or at least their celestial representations that were precacious to the souls that inhabit heaven or at least once were. Everything from your old G.I. Joe figurines to your favorite poster to that old pair of socks that finally just rotted off your feet are somewhere in the clocktower's halls. Since nobody really visits the former Archangel's cathedral anymore this is rarely excercised and few actually know about this. Another interesting surprise is that the Clocktower is actually full of artifacts but they all are remenants of Lucifer's Rebels from the prisms of the Lightbringer to the 12 keys of Patience belonging to Meserach and the tokens of Valor. They were stored here by the Seraphim Council rather than have reminders of their existence still belong in Heaven proper or the cathedrals to be scavenged and risk the possibility of taint. Curiously the cathedral has a perculiar property that it restores memories that have been lost over time meditation allows both sober and somber, happy and joyous, painful and pleasurable to return to one's mind. The problem is the effect can be extremely overwhelming and almost like a form of trauma in the case of angels and even some unprepared humans as the events become so crisp and so clear they become a substitute for life itself. There is a single inhabitant full time of the theatre who has made his home in heaven in the finest upper reaches as he uses the place to store his theories, works, and inventions. The Seraphim "Seneschal" of the Cathedral is curiously completely forgotten by everyone who meets them and no one can recall him a few minutes after meeting him save in a very general way. It is unknown thus who or what this person might be. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2189 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.