From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Apr 30 11:07:23 2001 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23620 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:07:23 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA19602 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:15:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:15:36 -0500 Message-Id: <200104301615.LAA19602@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2191 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, April 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2191 In this digest: Re: IN> Mariel's old cathedral Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic Re: IN> Mariel's old cathedral Re: IN> Authority of judgement Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic Re: IN> Re: Tips for Judgement Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic IN> Vorp! Re: IN> Mariel's old cathedral IN> The case of the purloined kitten IN> A plot problem Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Re: IN> A plot problem Re: IN> Speaking of my Inner Archangel...* Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Re: IN> Authority of judgement Re: IN> Authority of judgement Re: IN> Authority of judgement Re: IN> Mariel's old cathedral Re: IN> Authority of judgement Re: IN> Authority of judgement Re: IN> Authority of judgement Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten IN> Kyriotate Word-bound Angels of cities Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:56:26 -0700 From: Ryan Elias Subject: Re: IN> Mariel's old cathedral Maurice Lane wrote: > I know that something like this has been suggested > before, but let me say again that an Inside Haagenti's > Digestive System campaign would be very, very strange. That. Is undoubtedly the coolest *stupid* idea I've seen yet on the list (which lacks neither stupid nor cool ideas ^_^). Cheers, -Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:34:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:11:43 -0500From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic >"Turning In Nomine silly," I tend to agree with her. >And this is silly. >- -David (no, I don't particularly like In Nomine >silly. Or with kittens) (shrug) We're bored. Even the 'is there going to be _anything_ IN coming out? Ever?' anxiety (usually a favorite with the crowd) is starting to lose its terror through sheer repetition. Couple that with the Great Tattered Brain Drain (sorry about that, guys), which has neatly managed to trap many of the doom and gloomers into its nefarious web, well, silly seems to be the order of the day.* Moe *Please note, BTW, that I am _not_ getting involved in this entire 'kidnap the cat' game. I am perfectly content to *read* it, instead. :) ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:52:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 02:17:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Charles Glasgow wrote:> Dear Valefor.> learning how not to be such a snuffily grumpy-pants - >she can wean you off of canon at the same time, >even... :)- -- BITE YOUR TONGUE. I _like_ David E.'s ability to work with canon*: I just wish that there was more of it. Unfortunately, we all have to eat. Moe *"Like" is actually too weak a word, but I don't want to embarrass him with strong praise. ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 02:59:15 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: Re: IN> Mariel's old cathedral [I know that something like this has been suggested before, but let me say again that an Inside Haagenti's Digestive System campaign would be very, very strange.] Don't forget moe. I suggested it first! :-) (Campaign Setting: Haagenti's tummy hehehe) - -Charlemagne "BONZAI!" - -Pretty Novalis whaps bad guys with slow motion martial arts that resembles hugs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 03:01:42 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: Re: IN> Authority of judgement I stand corrected. and bow before superior wisdom. - -Charlemagne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:08:20 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic >From: "Janet Anderson" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 02:54:55 > >Unless the Spear of Longinus, Michael's Ax, Laurence's Sword, and a Pikachu >>ethereal are delivered to my palace in Stygia within 24 hours I regret to >>inform you I will KILL THE KITTEN. > > >Which will result in his ending up where? ... > >That's what I thought. > >Don't tell me Valefor's that dumb ... > > Nah. He's a demon prince. By the time he sends that letter, the kitten is already mince. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:18:38 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Tips for Judgement >OK, so this isn't too short, after all. Suffice it to >say that I thought humanizing Dominic to be a >worthwhile endeavour, at that time and place, and went >on to do so, at that time and place. Then I went on >to do such oddities as making Demon Princes of Cows >and slaughtering Michael. No underlying themes, no >grand vision: just a lot of Well, It Sounded Like A >Neat Idea At The Time. > >Frankly, I'm mildly surprised that nobody's actually >told me to shut _up_ by now. :) > Hey, I'd be the last person to tell you to shut up ;) But I really find that humanising Dominic is a quick way to ruin the game (for me, at least.) He's supposed to be terrifying to players, terrifying to characters, terrifying to GMs, & terrifying to his own servitors. The inquisition is fanatical, efficient, and somewhat ineffable -- it's important to the feel that there is never enough information for mere players to know absolutely whether his actions are justified or not, but it should _always_ be possible that they are. So why don't people want to be afraid? I've read stories about the historical St. Dominic that claim that he used to regularly keep long nightly vigils weeping for the souls of those he could not save. Not because he doubted his mission or his methods (which could be very brutal), but because he felt that if he'd only tried a bit harder he could have saved them too, and that God expected nothing less than perfection of him. I want that Old Testament faith and melodrama in my Judgement, not fluffy kittens, cute female angel-chicks and lots-of-angst. I want Dominic's faithful servitors to be intimitely familiar with the holy terror that their archangel inspires on his weekly visits. I want them to burn with the rightness of their cause, and to be proud of the blind faith that they have in their Superior's judgement. And I also want it to be perfectly reasonable for other angels to fear and mistrust them, because they do not explain themselves. That's why I really dislike the fluff. It'd work better for a different archangel. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 03:35:42 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Note delivered to Dominic Hm.... Well, my reaction to the whole "Kill the Kitten" seed is Dominic reading the note, reporting it to the appropriate agencies (most particularly Laurence, as it represents an attempt to suborn an Archangel by a Demon Prince, which is an offense worthy of Inquisition save that this time it's the Inquisitor being called upon), and then Dominic goes back to his normal work, without any further acknowledgement that the letter ever arrived or indeed he ever had a kitten. One cannot surrender their Judgement over sentimentalism, after all, and this result was more than enough to prove, once again, that extraneous and unproductive distractions can only weaken one's resolve. To commit heavenly resources would be, in the end, using Heaven for one's personal gain, and therefore selfish. Of course, Dominic *would* have to contend with Jordi, who would -- quite reasonably -- be angered that a blessed soul entrusted to his Savannah but placed in Dominic's care was taken from Heaven.... Sorry to be dark on this.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:14:56 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: IN> Vorp! Let's face it, God is infallable but even he has off days. Sometimes little details get missed on Earth, events aren't happening in chronological order, people are in the wrong place... Thus the need for Vorp. Named after the sound it makes as it passes by, Vorp's job is to correct those little mistakes. It has the ability to alter scenery, accelerate time or run it backwards, relocate people, change matter and any other warping of reality that it deems necessary to keep things running smoothly. The Archangels and the Demon Princes are aware of Vorp. Heaven prefers to leave it alone; even Jean is content to say that Vorp "just is" and changes the subject. Demon Princes have learned to leave it alone after a few week long object lessons were dished out in Hell that only they remember. As for lower ranking Celestials, they remain unaware of this being. Only the highly perceptive have any kind of insight that something "just happened" but it quickly fades from their memories. What can I tell you? There has to be a good way for a GM to explain a shift in the adventure or how the characters "suddenly notice" something. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:41:53 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Mariel's old cathedral - --On Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:37 PM -0700 Maurice Lane wrote: > This is interesting. Could be useful as an indication > that Mariel isn't dead, after all ... just spelunking > in Haagenti's stomach. Images Marc Didn't Need, #27 in a set of 50. Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ("Somewhere down there there's a raft carrying, from left to right, a kitten, an old German guy, and a puppet.") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:50:31 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> The case of the purloined kitten I think David Edelstein has no sense of humor. I have been assuming that Solomon was a real live kitten who somehow managed to exist in Heaven (remember this whole thing isn't canon), and that therefore if a demon actually killed him he'd turn up in Heaven in trauma. Whoopee. All cats have decent Wills. However, if he's actually a celestial kitten, then the threat becomes a valid one. Other observations: 1. Yes, I suspect Dominic would hand the investigation over to others and pretend nothing had happened. I also suspect that his personality until the kitten was returned would make his former demeanor look like Novalis's. 2. Unless Bronwen is a Seraph (and I don't remember but I thought she was a Malakite or Cherub for some reason), she could easily write a letter like the one described. It doesn't matter if it's true or not as long as Valefor believes it. 3. Speaking of Cherubim, hasn't any Cherub in Dominic's organization attuned to that kiten yet, and if not, why not? Or if not them, what about Novalis? In short, in any organization there is usually some person or thing that *everybody* cares about. In someone else's story (Moe, I think), it turned out to be Novalis. In this case, it's Solomon. I have no problem with this. Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:58:56 From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> A plot problem I have this Cherub of Stone who's going on an airplane trip and doesn't want to be separated from his brass knuckles -- and they'll set off the metal detector and are (I believe) illegal. Yes, he could send them through his luggage, but he wants them to hand (as it were) in case he needs them. Suggestions? Janet Anderson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:06:16 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten >From: "Janet Anderson" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > >I think David Edelstein has no sense of humor. No sense of humour is a prerequisite for writing IN. >In someone else's story (Moe, I think), it turned >out to be Novalis. In this case, it's Solomon. I have no problem with >this. > > I find it a bit much that an archangel (other than Jordi) would care more about an animal than a human, but to each their own. Anyway, we all know that Michael has a fluffy white cat ... ObLinks: (the first is mine & the second is Maya's, for those who haven't read the Bond-pastiches) http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN_bond.html http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/movie10.html jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:15:27 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> A plot problem >From: "Janet Anderson" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> A plot problem >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:58:56 > >I have this Cherub of Stone who's going on an airplane trip and doesn't >want >to be separated from his brass knuckles -- and they'll set off the metal >detector and are (I believe) illegal. Yes, he could send them through his >luggage, but he wants them to hand (as it were) in case he needs them. > This isn't a plot problem, it's a plot opportunity. Have them arrested at customs, and maybe even mistaken for an international terrorist -- meanwhile, the real international terrorist sneaks onto a plane. Or have a suddenly helpful young lady in airline stewardess uniform just happen to offer to take a few "small packages" through in her own, unchecked, pockets. What will it cost? Oh, nothing ... nothing right now. He can pay her back later. Oh wait -- you're not the GM here, right? *sigh* OK, easiest way is to get a friendly Servitor of Janus to take them through for you, or use Song of Celestial Motion to teleport them from one side of customs to the other -- have a friend go through first with an empty bag and teleport them into the bag. Either that or have a friend who works for the airline get them through. Just remember that if you can get your brass knuckles onto the flight, other people/celestials could just as easily take other metallic substances. Having angels of Jean possess the scanning machine would probably work too (then just put the brass knuckles in your pocket.) Or you could get a Kyrio to possess the person watching the x-ray scanner so that they don't react to the sight of the weapon. What people actually do to sneak things through customs involves disguising the object as something else (tricky to do, but x-rays can be fooled -- esp if you have a small lead-lined tin in your case.) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:48:10 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Speaking of my Inner Archangel...* Maurice Lane wrote: > > ...it needs feeding. Any recommendations for good > IN-themed books? "The Screwtape Letters," by C. S. Lewis, which is in the IN bibliogrpahy, but I urge you to bump it higher on your queue. It presents a very entertaining infernal point of view. It is also available on casette, read by John Cleese, who is perfect for the voice of Screwtape. Also Lewis's Space Trilogy -- "Out of the Silent Planet," "Perelandra," and "That Hideous Strength." The angels presented are very alien, which is not often useful in IN, but the demons presented, and the damned souls, provide interestingly horrific features. "Trio for Lute," by R. A. MacAvoy, concerning the adventures of Damiano, a 13th-century warlock, and his buddy Raphael. THAT Raphael. And Raphael's black-sheep brother widely known for having quarreled with their Father. Good fictional portraits of angelic and demonic personalities. Individual volumes of the trilogy are "Damiano," "Damiano's Lute," and "Raphael." You'd have to get it through a used book service. Madeline L'Engle's Time series, named after the first volume, the famous "A Wrinkle in Time." The most INish book is one of the most recent, "Many Waters," set (mostly) just before Noah's Flood. "A Wind in the Door" features a verr Kyrio-like "cherubim." (Yes, *a* cherubim. "But cherubim is a plural." "Well, aren't I plural?") Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:37:57 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten >2. Unless Bronwen is a Seraph (and I don't remember but I thought she was >a Malakite or Cherub for some reason) Probably because she signed the letter "Bronwen, Malakite Inquisitor Master of Law". *g* http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine/servitors/Bronwen.htm >, she could easily write a letter like the one described. It doesn't >matter if it's true or not as long as Valefor believes it. I was in the process of writing a part II to that vignette where precisely this scenario is revealed -- i.e., Bronwen forged the letter in order to bluff Valefor out of his socks -- but then I realized it was funnier if that really was Dominic writing it, and those really were the Archangelic sentiments floating around. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:48:35 -0400 From: "Krishnaswami, Neel" Subject: Re: IN> Authority of judgement Chuckg wrote: > > Just thought of a possible alternative questioning tactic > > "Are you trying to hide anything from us that you wouldn't want us to > know about?" "But of course!" > "Why not? Is it merely embarassing, or would it actually get you in > trouble?" "My dear fellow, I would be embarassed only if I were doing anything shameful. Thus, you can safely infer that my activities are likely to give you and all your superiors fits, nightmares and panic, beginning with that charming young seraph glowering at me, and terminating with that not-quite-as-charming old seraph who weekly glowers at her." > "Really? Why it would do that?" "That would be telling, and naturally I cannot do that." > "Come now, you do realize that after having gotten this far, we > simply can't stop until you 'fess up. Of course, we could let you > go free now and merely put you under 24-hour surveillance, but do > you really wish to go through all that trouble?" "I do love the opportunity to invert stereotypes: now I, the ne'er do well angel of Wind, shall deliver the homiletic disquisition unto the gradgrind angels of the Inquisition! "Premise the first: note that there is no created being that is truly omniscient. Premise the second: we are all creations of that One who *is* omniscient, and omnipotent and omnibenelovent in addition. Thus we can syllogize that the potential for secrecy is both an intentional and desirable attribute of Creation. "We may now ask: why is this ignorance, this secrecy so desirable? The answer reveals itself with barely a moment's reflection: the All- Compassionate wishes to make us His sons, and to permit us to imitate our faith in Him with our fellows He has benevolently gifted us with the privilege of trusting one another. As trust would be superfluous with perfect knowledge, He has wisely given us the ability to act privately. "Just as I must trust that you, my brother angels of Judgement, act according to His will, I now enjoin you to extend me the same courtesy. You will find it a stressful experience, to be sure, but growth always is: even the mighty oak does not enjoy breaking free of the acorn. "Now, I really must depart -- this little briefcase full of drug money is just dying to be introduced to this arms merchant I met in Istanbul. Ta!" - -*-*-*- Note that since sowing chaos and breaking rules are what angels of the Wind are *for*, even a Seraph with a check of 6 will likely receive a message along the lines of "He is breaking your rules and keeping his activities secret because forcing you to trust people above laws will make you a better person. The absolute Truth is that in the appropriate contexts he is entirely correct." There is, of course, no guarantee that the rules the angels is breaking are bad ones, since Janus and Dominic have not reached a consensus on that matter. This is one of the reasons angels of Judgement get stomach ulcers (despite not having stomachs) when forced to question angels of the Wind. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswcasa.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:08:00 -0400 From: Marc Bowden Subject: Re: IN> Authority of judgement - --On Monday, April 30, 2001 10:48 AM -0400 "Krishnaswami, Neel" wrote: > Chuckg wrote: >> >> Just thought of a possible alternative questioning tactic >> >> "Are you trying to hide anything from us that you wouldn't want us >> to know about?" > > "But of course!" > [snip] *rubbing at his temples* Why does everyone on the face of Creation strive to come up with some smarmy and contrived way of sidestepping or castrating Judgement wholesale? Honestly, it's getting close to replacing villanizing Elohim as the national sport! Marc. Just Marc. Elohite Angel of Salvation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:11:19 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Authority of judgement This point is already moot, given question #5 on the *canon* Judgement Triad Routine Questioning List, but I'll discuss it anyway... > > "Are you trying to hide anything from us that you wouldn't want us > to >know about?" > >"But of course!" "What is it?" > > "Why not? Is it merely embarassing, or would it actually get you in > > trouble?" > >"My dear fellow, I would be embarassed only if I were doing anything >shameful. Thus, you can safely infer that my activities are likely to >give you and all your superiors fits, nightmares and panic, beginning >with that charming young seraph glowering at me, and terminating with >that not-quite-as-charming old seraph who weekly glowers at her." [nod, scribble, write down response] "Precisely what would those activities would those be? Please speak slowly and clearly at the Seraphim." [Judgement Triads have an incredibly high irony tolerance. It goes with the job.] > > "Really? Why it would do that?" > >"That would be telling, and naturally I cannot do that." Triad -- "Of course you can. And you will. You know the rules." > > "Come now, you do realize that after having gotten this far, we > > simply can't stop until you 'fess up. Of course, we could let you > > go free now and merely put you under 24-hour surveillance, but do > > you really wish to go through all that trouble?" [snip poetic resonse] >"Now, I really must depart -- this little briefcase full of drug money >is just dying to be introduced to this arms merchant I met in Istanbul. >Ta!" Triad -- "HALT! We did not grant you leave to go! If you refuse to answer, you risk arrest on charges of obstruction of judgement and fleeing the scene. Now. Answer. The. Question. What, *precisely*, are you doing that you would rather we not know about?" Windy -- "But my appointment..." Triad -- "We. Don't. Care. "How soon you leave this room is entirely controllable by you... but not in the manner that you would hope. If you're Truly in that much of a hurry, I would suggest that you start speaking more quickly. If your Superior has complaints about this matter, he can send them to ours after the fact... but until and unless we are directly overruled by higher authority, we will conduct this interview solely as *we* see fit. "Now are you going to get back in that chair, or will the Cherub have to put you in it?" >Note that since sowing chaos and breaking rules are what angels of the >Wind are *for*, Note that being poetic, funny, long-winded, and evasive only works to win your release if the questioners are willing to let you go out of sheer frustrated impatience... which Dominic's servitors usually aren't. I mean, imagine the astounding lack of success tactics such as these would give you vs. mortal law enforcers. Who have greatly less mental and physical endurance than servitors of Judgement. >even a Seraph with a check of 6 will likely receive a >message along the lines of "He is breaking your rules and keeping his >activities secret because forcing you to trust people above laws will >make you a better person. The absolute Truth is that in the appropriate >contexts he is entirely correct." >There is, of course, no guarantee that the rules the angels is breaking >are bad ones, since Janus and Dominic have not reached a consensus on >that matter. This is one of the reasons angels of Judgement get stomach >ulcers (despite not having stomachs) when forced to question angels of >the Wind. This is also why, if I were on that Triad, Angels of the Wind would learn to either answer questions quickly and to the point or else clear out *large* blocks of time on their appointment calendars, 'cause I'd keep 'em sitting in that chair until they started risking hitting their dissonance condition. If a particularly smart-mouthed respondent wants to turn the exercise into an endurance contest, I can see no reason why Judgement wouldn't oblige them until even a Cherub of Stone started asking for a rest break... letting anybody actually *succeed* with this kind of tactic would be setting a very bad precedent. And rule #1 of surviving police interrogation is Don't Smart Off To The Cops. Either stand mute and wait for your lawyer, or 'fess up and get it over with. Trying to waste their time only makes them more determined to waste more of your time -- and *they're* paid overtime, but *you're* losing money. This problem becomes even more acute vs. law enforcement authorities who don't recognize any kind of right to remain silent, have the power to arrest you solely because you didn't answer even the most innocent of questions, and don't have as much of a need to minimize their time-per-suspect because of immunity to mortal fatigue and workload considerations. Like I said -- sheer, bloody-minded, dogged persistence. Most police cases are not cracked by brilliant flashes of deduction, but merely by grinding away. There's a reason that Judgement and Stone get along so well. *eg* - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:16:59 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Mariel's old cathedral From: "Marc Bowden" > > ("Somewhere down there there's a raft carrying, from left to right, a > kitten, an old German guy, and a puppet.") So the only question I have about this is, how did the German guy manage to swipe Dominic's kitten from Valefor? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:27:11 -0600 (MDT) From: GROTH TIMOTHY PAUL Subject: Re: IN> Authority of judgement I think Charles you'd be happier serving the Game. That way the smart assed answers could be followed up by asking questions with pointy celestial objects. Then again if the contrast is low enough Judgement my use some of those as well. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:35:07 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Authority of judgement >I think Charles you'd be happier serving the Game. That way the smart >assed answers could be followed up by asking questions with pointy >celestial objects. I'm just trying to get the point across that Judgement is staffed by people who operate under less civil rights restrictions than the old KGB did, are incredibly anal, check their senses of humor at the door whenever they go on duty, and are really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really sick and tired of being stalled with tricks that were already old when the flint axe was the SOTA in weapons technology. Remember, *in Dominic's perception* the whole Rebellion occurred because he'd let Lucifer put him off with a "I'll tell you later." Keeping that in mind, you can guess exactly what Judgement's attitude towards stalling tactics is. While even Judgement's resources would become fatigued acting this doggedly with everybody who tries to get smart with them until the end of time, they wouldn't need to keep it up that long. After the first few examples got around, most other angels would Get The Hint. And no thumbscrews would be required. (And since angels don't get tired, it's not even sleep deprivation torture. It's merely *boring*.) >Then again if the contrast is low enough Judgement my use some of those as >well. The Game uses thumbscrews because it doesn't have the Seraph and Elohite resonances and the Inquisitor distinction. Judgement has those, so it has no need for such. Not every problem can be solved simply by banging your head on the stone wall until it collapses. But the problem of how to get a recalcitrant interviewee to finally 'fess up isn't one of them. There's only one of him, but you can all take turns... eventually, his endurance will lapse. - -- Chuckg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:35:44 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Authority of judgement At 11:08 AM -0400 4/30/01, Marc Bowden wrote: >--On Monday, April 30, 2001 10:48 AM -0400 "Krishnaswami, Neel" > wrote: > > *rubbing at his temples* Why does everyone on the face of Creation >strive to come up with some smarmy and contrived way of sidestepping >or castrating Judgement wholesale? Honestly, it's getting close to >replacing villanizing Elohim as the national sport! Well, in this cheerful case, it's because that's what Wind *does.* Wind and Judgement mix like oil and water, and it's made all the worse by Janus having a good standing in Heaven -- Janus is acting according to his Word and his mandate from Heaven, goes to council meetings, votes, interacts with Heavenly society, and places mandates on his Servitors to shake things up up up! So, unless a Servitor of the Wind is investigated for directly working against *Heaven,* the Inquisition ends up getting a good number of ulcers when investigating them. It's one thing to Judge Creationers -- their Archangel has abandoned his post and is under Investigation himself, so a Creationer acting according to his mandate is potentially doing suspicious activities. But a Windie isn't part of such a thing -- yet, anyhow, as Sup1 indicates Dominic *is* building a case -- and so they can get away with far more. That being said, Sup1 also indicates that Janites get vessel-stripped and endure other minor punishments for infractions often, and more Janites get investigated than any other Word's Servitors. That Janus *isn't* heading towards Outcasting seems to reflect that the Seraphim Council has some sympathy for the position Neel's character is adopting. And you'll notice that we don't really see the end. Just because the Windie says 'ta!' at the end is no promise the Malakite doesn't take out a mace and growl "sit back *down,*" while the Seraph proceeds to move on with the questioning.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:42:32 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Janet Anderson wrote: > > I think David Edelstein has no sense of humor. "His tastes are different from mine" = "He has no sense of humor." OK. > In short, in any organization there is usually some person or thing that > *everybody* cares about. Not necessarily. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:45:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Maurice Lane Subject: IN> Kyriotate Word-bound Angels of cities ...well, the same question might also be true of Shedim, but I can't see them lasting long in the job (there is, after all, an upper limit to how much you can corrupt an area before everybody moves out and you start hemorraging Word-Forces). Oh, right, the question: how do the rest of you handle this sort of thing (presuming that any of you actually have one IYC)? The obvious answer ("Hi, Hellspawn. I'm Bill, and I can jump into anyone, anywhere, as long as I stay in Brooklyn. You're all about to die, by the way, unless you can run really, really fast") has an equally-obvious problem. There's a seed concept involved: I need a good idea of the group's consensus on power levels (so that I can properly exceed them past the red safety line...) :) Moe ===== Liber Licentiae Moeticae: http://www.stormloader.com/users/moelane/innomine.html Last updated 04/29/01(this is usually way out of date) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:45:49 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten From: "David Edelstein" > Janet Anderson wrote: > > > > I think David Edelstein has no sense of humor. > > "His tastes are different from mine" = "He has no sense of humor." OK. I think it has more to do with the length at which you expounded on how bad an idea the kitten is, rather than the mere difference of opinion. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:56:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Janet Anderson wrote: > I think David Edelstein has no sense of humor. No, actually David has a decent sense of humor. He just *comes across* like a Grinch sometimes, that's all. It's his inner Habbalite. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian, Q4B4L! Meow! The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter. -- Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:00:32 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten > > > I think David Edelstein has no sense of humor. > > > > "His tastes are different from mine" = "He has no sense of humor." OK. > > I think it has more to do with the length at which you expounded on how bad > an idea the kitten is, rather than the mere difference of opinion. A paragraph of explanation on why Heaven going to war over a kitten is a bad idea -- and it's pretty well daft, you gotta admit -- doesn't seem to be expounding at length to me. I think, if I told my players they were going to war over a kitten, they'd stare at me in disbelief and probably have the least fun they've ever had in an In Nomine game. Granted, we've had cats in our game before -- my angelic players are tempted to run over every cat they see because so many demons seem to use cats as vessels, and then there was the time a horde of imps in kitten vessels were being handed out to the local apartment complex and the angels caught on before disaster struck, and then hunted the felines down and drowned them all... -- but there's such a thing as suspension of disbelief. Oh, and we do laugh at some of the funny stuff that occurs in our In Nomine games. The reason it's funny is because we don't play intentionally for laughs -- we play serious, and the players react seriously to situations, which, if you don't realize the characters are angels, are incredibly funny. That's the difference between stupid humor, which is a game-killer and'll encourage people to cease taking your game seriously, and witty humor, which is incidental, and will make people laugh at the odd situations they get themselves into. All without ruining suspension of disbelief, which is the *most* essential thing to have in any successful game! Which is why kitten-wars are bad. I guess if you like In Nomine Daft, wars over kittens are good. I guess. (That was expounding at length, by the way, and I assure you that I have a fully-functioning sense of humor. I also have a sense of wit and style, two senses that forbid wars over normal kittens in a serious game.) Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:59:21 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten At 10:45 AM -0500 4/30/01, Prodigal wrote: >I think it has more to do with the length at which you expounded on how bad >an idea the kitten is, rather than the mere difference of opinion. As I recall, David's sum total on the kitten proper was "No, I don't like In Nomine silly. Or with kittens." Which is perfectly his right, and certainly not a particularly lengthy diatribe. It's as legitimate as my liking the kitten as set dressing for Dominic, but not wanting to use Bronwyn in her stated role. What he expounded on at length was the idea that Dominic's kitten being stolen would mobilize the forces of Heaven to near Armageddonic levels. It smacks a bit of "Belial burned down London and Chicago? Eh - -- this is just another move in the War. When all of Hell is destroyed those innocents will be avenged. Dominic's *kitten* was stolen? *Now* I'm pissed!" - -- Eric Alfred Burns - Habbalite of Belaboring the Point ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:02:24 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Prodigal wrote: > I think it has more to do with the length at which you expounded on how bad> an idea the kitten is, rather than the mere difference of opinion. What does my having a strongly different opinion have to do with my having no sense of humor? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:04:57 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The case of the purloined kitten Oh, gee, I hope this thread dies soon. I will only remark that there seems to be a failure all round to distinguish between material presented as gaming ideas and material presented as mere entertainment. Perhaps more use of the FLUFF flag? Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2191 ******************************** The material here is (C) 2001 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.