By Diverse Hands
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:26:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Martin Leslie Leuschen <[email protected]>
Subject: IN> Malakim Vows
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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 15:50 EDT
From: Walter Milliken <[email protected]>
Uh uh. No donut. Malakim have a vow "to never suffer an evil to live", *not* to kill demons. Mind you, it *often* amounts to the same thing, except that it means Malakim are prone to kill evil humans just as often (or more so, since there are more of them around...). But a demon who isn't actively "evil" doesn't necessarily fall under a Malakite's vow. It's a subtle distinction (and Malakim aren't necessarily all that subtle...), but it's an important one to remember.
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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:54:26 -0400
From: David Edelstein <[email protected]>
I have to disagree. Demons may come in various shades of black, but they are the very definition of evil, at least the Malakim definition.
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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 00:50:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kingsley Lintz <[email protected]>
I still say it depends on their personal view and, perhaps even moreso, that of their Superior. (For the obvious examples, Lawrence definitely considers all demons evil; Novalis quite demonstrably doesn't. Dominic may consider some angels evil...)
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This came up in Eternal Dawn (PBM) shortly after I joined on as a GM. He's some of the thoughts I had on it, slightly edited to remove ED specific stuff...
[Comments in square brackets]
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[Begin exerpt]
It would depend on the original oath. Here's my argument why the *required* oath of a Malakim would be against Evil, not evil:
["Evil" being from Hell, "evil" being mundane evil]
Malakim oathed to destroy banal evil would not be allowed out without a keeper. Reading the newspaper would be enough to send most of them on a rampage, especially if fancy philosophical dodging is dissonant. Luckily, unlike us mundanes#, Malakim have a concrete and easy to define definition of evil: Demons and Soldiers of Hell.
#Unless you aren't, (mundane) of course.
That said, sure, a Malakim can take an additional oath against some personal definition of evil, even `I know it when I see it,' but what happens when (s)he reads about Aparthied, or the IRA, or about half the stuff in the news about Brazil? (I'd bet about half of Novalis' Malakim are in Brazil just for the trees, not even thinking about the professional `street kid hunters.') Why aren't all of Jordi's Malakim out hunting Veal farmers and Cosmetics testers? Why havn't Dominic's wiped out half of Washington? Where were the Malakim when the Duvaliers were running Haiti? When ethnic cleansing was (is) going on in the former Yugoslavia? When millions of people were (are) killed or starved to death in Africa? How did Hitler last? Or Stalin? Most of the Malakim in the world were probably gunning for them.
<pant, pant>
Sorry about that, I started thinking about `evil things in the world,' and it got out of hand. In any case, I'll think you'll agree that many if not all of the above examples overshadow [whatevver mundane evil your PC group just discovered.]
But the Malakim didn't take them out. Why? I can think of 4 possible explanations:
1. Demons fought them off. This implies that there are constant battles between every informed Malakim with oaths against evil (not Evil), and hordes of defending Demons. This strikes me as silly. [It *is* kinda epic tho...]
2. Malakim are all unaware of these things. Ditto.
3. Malakim are not allowed out of Heaven much, at least without a keeper. [If the Malakim has no choice, it's not dissonant, so most of the time a more restrained commander would keep them in line.] [But this] Sucks if you wanna play one.
4. Your average Malakim is not *required* to kill such humans (most would probably want to), and in fact is discouraged from doing so unless (s)he can do it Quietly. This works nicely because it allows modern history to proceed with fewer failed reality checks, and because it implies that the really nasty evil guys have demons around to prevent Malakim assassins doing things quietly.
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[End Exerpt]
To simplify - "There's plenty of mundane evil out there in the real world - Unless your IN campaign includes only carefully restrained or Clueless Malakim, their oaths better not apply to it."
Comments?
[In regards to the Mal of David Delemma]
I agree that trying to force dissonance on you is an attack. In fact, the reason I don't see many of the 'Stupid Lilim Tricks' working is because even trying them is a good way to get your vessel canned, and except for rare hard cases [Hi K.K.!], it isn't usually worth it.
Regards,
Martin Leuschen
[email protected]
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