in_nomine-digest Thursday, October 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2422 In this digest: Re: IN> Temporal Displacement Device IN>Question about Revelation Re: IN> Vapulan Time Travel IN> Ethereals and Belief IN> What does Lilith look like? RE: IN> What does Lilith look like? IN> An Earth abandoned [campaign setting] Re: IN>Question about Revelation Re: IN>Question about Revelation Re: IN>Question about Revelation IN> Re: Eastern Religions Re: IN> Temporal Displacement Device Re: IN> What does Lilith look like? Re: IN> Hardcore servitor Re: IN> Regarding Ethereals Re: IN> Hardcore servitor IN> Prisons and Cruelty Re: IN> Temporal Displacement Device Re: IN> Ethereals and Belief Re: IN> What does Lilith look like? Re: IN> Anti-Christs Re: IN> Temporal Displacement Device Re: IN> Vapulan Time Travel Re: IN> Anti-Christs Re: IN> Anti-Christs Re: IN> Anti-Christs IN> Jeantech Time Travel (or lack thereof) Re: IN>Question about Revelation Re: IN> Vapulan Time Travel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:01:20 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Temporal Displacement Device Please pardon the blatant theft, such as it is. I saw the title "Temporal Displacement Device" and started free-associating at top speed. It might be because I'm just slightly on the edge of feeling ill; I seem to recall having come up with some of the nastier bits of my as-yet-unpublished Lilim Princess in that state as well. - ------------ Jean has built a Temporal Displacement Device. Every Servitor of Technology knows it. But, typical repressed Elohite that he is, he has forbidden its use under any circumstances, for some top secret reason with which the Seraphim Council has completely concurred. Unfortunately, something is also preventing its destruction; apparently, it's some kind of unique modification to a small Tether to Lightning, and even an Archangel can't do anything about that until it dies naturally. So there's now a garrison of Lightning angels protecting the site, armed with the best weaponry Heaven has to offer, not to mention an array of deathtraps that make getting to the center of the installation, where the Corporeal locus is located, a struggle for even the most determined teams of demons. The installation itself is a superb defense; it's easy to get lost in its winding, deliberately-confusing passages. Sometimes a demon will find himself separated from his comrades. He gets in a running firefight with a team of Malakim, when suddenly a crossfire is set up from a nook above him in the hall, someone coming to his aid. The Malakim retreat, and he finds himself alone with... himself. From the future, it appears. He confirms his identity with a few personal tidbits about the demon's past, and casually mentions that he only has a short while, especially when the other demons reappear, but he had an obvious interest in returning to help out his past self. Speaking of obvious... Did we mention the NC: Wings? The white feathered ones? - ----- Jean thinks it's an excellent use of an old, minor, dying Tether that can't be efficiently supported. Since defenders have the advantage of ground and knowledge of the area, not to mention aTraumatic Malakim, Heaven makes out better than Hell on the body/Trauma count. And when a demon comes in that might be Redemption material -- or it's someone who they've decided would be best placed on the Game's watch list -- well... There's already so much Disturbance flying around at these things. Who's going to notice 8 or 9 Essence spent on a use of the Seraph, Elohite, Malakite, or Mercurian resonance? And if the demon comes to the conclusion that an angel in a Vessel just like his (a permanent investment, since the Servitor can keep it afterward), knowing about his past relationships, or secret motivations, just *has* to be himself from the future... there's a surprisingly low recidivism rate, once an ex-demon has experienced the wonder of his new state, and been convinced that he too would lie to get someone on the Right Side. William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:05:48 -0700 From: Charles E Smith Subject: IN>Question about Revelation Hi all! Where can I find information or a write-up about Litheroy? I have this idea for an angel of Revelation (Malakite, Elohite, or Mercurian, I'm not sure), and I don't know where I can dig up information on Litheroy and his people. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:09:55 -0700 From: Charles E Smith Subject: Re: IN> Vapulan Time Travel Time Travel has been part of the French In Nomine game for a while now . .. . so far as I can tell. Kronos is the Prince of Eternity and has the ability to send people through time (forward and backward). Jean built a time machine so that Krono's agents could be combatted.<<< This does bring up an interesting point. What are the effective limitations of Kronos's Temporal Projection attunement? I understand that, historically, Kronos was the Greek God of Time (technically a Titan), and father of Zeus. It strikes me as a bit strange that our resident Prince of Fate is so obsessed with Time, while Yves seems more concerned with space (his Rite of Passage and Synchronicity attunements enable one to move through space to where they need to be). Just a quirky thought. :) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:15:35 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Ethereals and Belief OCC: In my neverending quest to get more articles in the In Nomine collection... "Yes I believe in Faeries" - -Standard Response to Peter Pan the Play "The last play no one clapped and Tinkerbell died." - -Roseanne from the Roseanne Show "A thing lasts for only as long as the last person who remembers it." - -The Shaman from the X-Files The creation of ethereals seems to be one of the most hotly debated articles in the In Nomine canon and I'm pretty sure until the Ethereal players guide comes out we're not going out have much more information about the matter. However I have my own rules for it and I think they're pretty accurate. Ethereal Birth The way I run it which I think is pretty close to In Nomine canon is that for the duration of Dreams there are plenty of ethereals. Basically what else can be used to describe the beings which populate our dreams? For the duration of a person's dream that really is Buffy the Vampire Slayer saving you or in...flagrante de licto with you. However the problem is the environment which you inhabit and provides the "pseudo" essence in my campaign lasts only until as long as you wake up at which point these ethereals cease to exist. An 'Ethereal' that might be considered a player character or an NPC of anything longer than a dream is a ethereal however which for some reason has carried over. You hardly ever rememebr your dreams is a very common response to people but sometimes those dreams do carry over and it is in this point that Heaven must take watch for. 'Imaginary friends' for instance are a very common type of Ethereal. Basically growing up many children in order to compensate for some lack in their lives create a being that embodies the aspects of their lives. For many children growing up Elmo, the Muppets, and Mr. Rogers are not people who are on the screen but live just merely on another part of the planet and like Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy many parents encourage this belief rather than stamp it out. An ethereal will get the essence to form when a child or other dreamer deliberately spends essence "wishing" for this person to be alive. This unconcious expenditure is when people think about it nonstop trying to get a 'clearer' picture of it in thier minds. Calculating just how much essence is needed to create this figure is something that is very difficult and truth be told really depends on the ethereal itself. An ethereal fairy spirit that only glows and blinks might require 5-10 points of essence to create while a full human being closer to 50-100 and gods well...they're required essence is in the thousands. Furthermore an ethereal will perish if they are completely forgotten in the form that they were dreamed in. For instance if Laurence had decided to portray Athena as an evil warlock instead of goddess then that Athena could either choose to "bend" herself to accomadate the new essence (which will cost her the original essence) or not accept it which might form an evil athena. However if everyone only remembered the evil athena then she herself would die. Not thinking about an ethereal will merely cause it to weaken but if an adult Calvin still remembered his stuffed animal as a Tiger who acted in a particular way then it is possible that almost a ghost that he could invigorate him in adulthood....however the moment a charcateristic is completely forgotten...thus it dissapears from the ethereal. Thus an ethereals best chance for survival is to dissemanate beliefs. Attention and thinking about an ethereal are good things and people who spend essence building models, acquiring books, and more importantly writing stories FAITHFUL to the original material will sustain an ethereal just like devotional services (Fanfic is believed to be Nybbas's revenge on conservative ethereal's sex lives). However only direct belief can create. This is not so difficult a situation to manage as one might think because we believe for moments in things all the time. Kissing a pillow at night we believe it is our crush even for a moment and that moment we might spend the requisite essence. If enough is collected in a single time then the ethereal might pop into existence and will likely struggle to survive. Some ethereals have been more sucessful at stabilizing themselves than others. Internet rumors H.P. Lovecraft was influenced by the Great Old Ones physically still pop up in time, the Net is full of people who believe they are Vampires and act out during LARPS....you may be surprised to find that a healthy number of ethereal evils encourage this behavior along with Saminga, and of course Oz is real...every real fan can tell you that. Captain Kirk and Spock (we do not like each other that way) amongst their crew are also fairly sucessful as is their world... Arthur for centuries has lived though his realm too in the modern era is dying. In the end ethereal realms are very weak and much smaller than they used to be in the time of the gods and it is much more likely to find a Fox Mulder ethereal than find a universe where everything in the X-Files lives in harmony....but they do exist...even if only for a time. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:16:49 -0700 From: daiv Subject: IN> What does Lilith look like? This is actually a little more of a complicated question than that. A list friend wants to Dress as Lilith for Halloween...the traditional image, ideally. So is there anyone who can turn me on to a source, preferably online, that I can direct her to? -Daiv write haiku badly shame from all my ancestors what the hell they're dead ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:30:19 -0600 From: "Julian Mensch" Subject: RE: IN> What does Lilith look like? Well, _traditionally_... like a nine-foot-tall bat- winged owl with fangs and talons, actually. But I'm guessing that is not what your friend hand in mind. :) The "humanized" image used by the Sumerians (as opposed to the Hebrew owl-monster) looks like a very voluptious human woman with straight Egyptian-style hair, straight "slatted" wings and a conical hat: http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/lilClay.html A simple web-search for the word Lilith will turn up a number of pictures of Sumerian tablets depicting the goddess, as well as the "goddess medallions" that depict the "traditional" shape of a "fertile" woman. You might want to use discretion in telling your friend that the most accurate way to dress up as one of the most well- known feminist symbols of all time is to stuff her bra *a lot*... :) http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/ - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:34:04 -0400 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> An Earth abandoned [campaign setting] It all started so simple and yet so profound.... Yesterday everything was fine...now the entire War is over. Uriel appeared out of the Higher Heavens with a message from the All-High saying in quite unsimple terms that he had new projects for the Archangels of Heaven and their servitors to work on than dealing with humanity and that they were to select one hundred and eleven million good humans to be taken up with them and leave the rest. The Physical Universe could be left to rot. Needless to say you can imagine the sort of reaction that this garnered in Heaven. Laurence was the most hardest hit as his loyalty and oaths were called into severe question but after an intense period of soul-searching he gave mere confirmation to he Order to "retreat" as he put it in no uncertain terms. Michael was less particular but went along with the Order as well followed by David, Novalis, Dominic, Jean, Marc, Litheroy, Janus, Khalid, Blandine, and finally with the most weeping...Novalis. Curiously against all reason Jordi, Christopher, and Zadkiel chose to rebel and outcast themselves. Fortunately the majority of their servitors didn't choose to go with them and only a handful of each ended up resisting the serene call of a higher authority. God said their fate was one with the Grigori who were allowed a select who had abstained from their crimes to break their oath to their fellows and sadly many did so. It is said that Blandine and Laurence also ordered some of their servitors to stay behind...taking only volenteers to make the sacrafice worse than soul-death. In Hell there was a mixture of jubiliation, disbelief, and disturbing quiet until Baal returned from the now lightless Heaven which had been emptied but for a few scattered souls. Then the Demon Prince of the War broke down on his knees and wept as his word became nothing and he dissapeared into the night and has not been seen since. Asmodeus was found hanging from the top of the highest court in Gehenna as the Master of the Game proved himself the ultimate renegade by commiting suicide. Lucifer of course had accompanied the train of Archangels departing along with the souls from the Lower Hells where only those who were repentant of their evil were allowed to venture to be purified. Thus Hell in the end was deprived even it's leadership. Unlike Hell triumphant there simply wasn't anything to talk about and now there is great dischord among the demons who have no causes between them to unite them with some wishing to create a paradise of the Earth while others wishing to destroy it. What was most curious was the calm. On Earth every mortal instinctively knows what's happened for nowhere is God and the devil's loss more keenly felt than in the human heart where no intervention dares touch....they at last have freedom and it is a bitter triumph indeed for Lilith as her word is complete ashes in her mouth. "So who wants to play Kitten Poker?" - -Haagenti - -Charlie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:42:04 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN>Question about Revelation At 07:05 PM 10/24/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all! > >Where can I find information or a write-up about Litheroy? I have this >idea for an angel of Revelation (Malakite, Elohite, or Mercurian, I'm not >sure), and I don't know where I can dig up information on Litheroy and >his people. Thanks! I believe, although I'm not *absolutely* sure, that Litheroy is in the insert with the Game Master's Screen (that also includes Feast of Blades). - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:46:21 -0700 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN>Question about Revelation EDG wrote: > I believe, although I'm not *absolutely* sure, that Litheroy is in the > insert with the Game Master's Screen (that also includes Feast of Blades). He is. - -- Kish ICQ# 28085879 AIM Kish K M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 05:53:49 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN>Question about Revelation http://www.io.com/~lcowper/InNomine/instruments.html about half way down the page. You know, when ever we do write ups for new supperiors, we always seem to forget litheroy and his counter part (whose name escapes me atm). Oh well. Toodles Cas *where you come from is gone, where you're going was never there, and where you are aint no good unless you can get away from it* http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:02:52 +0000 From: "Jonathan Walton" Subject: IN> Re: Eastern Religions >>people I've talked to in the countryside and >>in other parts of China don't seem to be willing to admit >>any real belief in traditional religion. >I suspect that they'd be even less willing to discuss >that with an outsider than they would with one of their own >people. Xenophobia is a powerful force. Totally, but these conversations are taking place completely in Chinese, and some of these people will tell me about their experiences during the Cultural Revolution (!), but claim to have no religious beliefs. Maybe it just has to do with having a different view of "religion," since cultural practices (like honoring the Stove King) and superstitions (putting offerings out for ghosts) may not be considered "religion" in their eyes. >In the case of China, the names >were changed to integrate the foreign belief system into >their indigenous culture. That bit of cultural legerdemain >is what got them close enough to the Japanese gods (whose >origins owe more to Shintoism than Buddhism) to form the >August Prosperity Collective. But the APC, as I recall, is only made up of Japanese gods, sprung out of Shinto. Still, you're right that it's strange that Buddhism doesn't create Ethereals when Hunduism does. I'm guessing that maybe David just thought it would be easier not to have to mess with Ethereals that potentially represented actual mortals (whose souls could be in Heaven or Hell). Ethereal Buddhas would seem to be headache, but maybe David could remark on his reasoning? Later. Jonathan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:58:46 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Temporal Displacement Device > There's already so much Disturbance flying around at these things. >Who's going to notice 8 or 9 Essence spent on a use of the Seraph, Elohite, >Malakite, or Mercurian resonance? And if the demon comes to the conclusion >that an angel in a Vessel just like his (a permanent investment, since the >Servitor can keep it afterward), knowing about his past relationships, or >secret motivations, just *has* to be himself from the future... That's clever ;) But you know, it would be much easier to set up as a demonic trap, with a 'fallen' version of the celestial saving his backside. After all, Kronos' Impudites can automatically know all about a person's past just by touching them, so it would be much easier to sort that part out. jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:08:18 -0400 From: Cameron McCurry Subject: Re: IN> What does Lilith look like? > This is actually a little more of a complicated question than that. > A list friend wants to Dress as Lilith for Halloween...the traditional image, > ideally. So is there anyone who can turn me on to a source, preferably > online, that I can direct her to? Fredrick's of Hollywood, Victoria's Secret... *ducks* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:09:15 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: IN> Hardcore servitor >Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 06:16:22 -0700 (PDT) >From: Michael Walton >Subject: Re: IN> Hardcore servitor > Of course, there's an easy way she could square things >with her old boss; just do what she does in such a way as >to break up a band. A few rounds of that and Malphas will >see her as being more useful to him after she left his >service. Not that it would stop him from driving a wedge >between Lucile and her new boss by pointing that out to Furfur... Except that her Habbalite delusion leads her to believe she's a muse, who responsible for creation rather than destruction. So she simply doesn't *like* Malphas at all. Thanks for the compliments though :)= (and the discord is from the IPG, btw) Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:22:26 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: IN> Regarding Ethereals >Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:41:12 -0500 >From: "Erich S. Arendall" >Subject: Re: IN> Regarding Ethereals > >...Not to mention everyone's RPG characters. :) Hehehehehehehee. >IMC (not that it affected the players), Pokemon /were/ running all through >the Marches annoying Cthulhu and whatnot. Thankfully for the denziens, many >of the Pokemon have died off, with only staples like Pikachu and Squirtle >remaining, though not nearly as powerful as they were before... but still as >cute. Yep, they were irritating all right. Thankfully I get more essence from the things they spawned... Nybbas is *so* easy to encourage. http://e-sheep.com/apocamon/ http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_4630.html Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:25:35 -0500 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: Re: IN> Hardcore servitor >Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:03:29 -0400 >From: Elizabeth McCoy >Subject: Re: IN> Hardcore servitor >Mmmm. I like Habbalah with the Mutilation Discord, I do. It's >entertaining, in strange ineffable ways. It's one of the better balanced ones - not too weak but not going to make your character impossible to play either. That and it lets you get even closer to playing Habbalah as Cenobites... >[...] >>Comment, criticisms, flames? > >I'll be good and not nitpick a couple of typos. O:> Missing a chance to gain Essence? I'm shocked. (thanks for the comments) Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 05:53:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> Prisons and Cruelty - --- james walker wrote: > Since when is imprisoning criminals cruel?! Incarceration in and of itself may not be -- but the way it's done in the modern penal system is. A guy whose crime was robbing a bank doesn't deserve to be gang-raped in the showers (unless he killed a hostage, perhaps). Seems to me that both Gabriel and Dominic would have issues with prisons. I agree that Gabby might see some inmates as getting off easy, but Dom would be more concerned with making the punishment fit the crime. This brings up another point, though; how subjective are Gabriel's Choir Attunements? Whose standard of cruelty is used to decide who is and isn't a legitimate target? James and I clearly have different standards; it's reasonable to conclude that angels would also have differing opinions on this subject. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The surest way to keep a secret is to make people believe they already know the answer." - -- Fremen saying __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 05:56:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Temporal Displacement Device Bravo! An efficient and eminently Jeanesque Redemption plot! ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The surest way to keep a secret is to make people believe they already know the answer." - -- Fremen saying __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:02:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Ethereals and Belief - --- Charles Phipps wrote: > An ethereal will get the essence to form when a child or > other dreamer > deliberately spends essence "wishing" for this person to > be alive. This > unconcious expenditure is when people think about it > nonstop trying to get a > 'clearer' picture of it in thier minds. This is beautiful. Until we get the EPG, it is now official IMC (and maybe even after that). ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The surest way to keep a secret is to make people believe they already know the answer." - -- Fremen saying __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:50:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> What does Lilith look like? daiv wrote: > A list friend wants to Dress as Lilith for Halloween...the > traditional image, ideally. So is there anyone who can turn me > on to a source, preferably online, that I can direct her to? Lilith has several traditional images. "Femme fatale" is a component of most of them (though the nine-foot fanged owl isn't very romantic to my way of thinking.) According to one oft-repeated description, she looks like a gorgeous woman, but has hairy legs (as in long-furred, not as in need of a bit of lady-like depilation). Michelangelo and Dante Rosetti identified her with the serpent in Eden, and Michelangelo depicted her as a naga-like half-snake in his Cistine Chapel paintings. This might be technically difficult in a Halloween costume. (On this basis, our game has made Lilith be a renegade Queen of the Dragons.) Elizabeth once posted a description of the pre-Fall Adam and Eve, from Talmudic legend, that would, logically, apply to Lilith too. If I recall correctly, they were titanically tall, with natural armoring (as contrasted to their nakedness later), with an aura of celestial light about them. I replied, "So Lilith looks like a Godzilla-sized Day-Glow armadillo? Oh, THAT's seductive!..." Personally, I would recommend your friend dress in a short, slinky dress of black (or maybe red or green), try to find some shaggy leggings, and carry a toy owl and/or snake as accessories. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:56:45 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Anti-Christs A bit of an academic note about "Anti-Christ" -- The term never appears in the book of Revelation. It comes from the letters of John (not the gospel, but the three very short books near Revelation in the New Testament canon.) There, it's clear that "Anti-Christ" refers to a whole class of people. "Whoever denies that Christ came in the flesh is the Anti-Christ." John is probably drawing the line in the sand between orthodoxy and Christian Gnosticism (which always denies the humanity of Christ). See 1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 1:7. Over the centuries, it became popular to use "THE Anti-Christ" as another name for the Beast in Revelation ( see esp. chapters 13, 17, 19.) The Beast is also identified with the cryptic "man of lawlessneww" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Later still comes the idea that the Anti-Christ is the son of Satan, the way Christ is the son of God. Merlin is, in one medieval story, supposed to be a failed attempt at begetting an Anti-Christ. Later still, we get Damian and the gang. Adam, of "Good Omens" (cited in the IN main book bibliography) is another "failed" and benign Anti-Christ. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:42:41 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Temporal Displacement Device Very well done with mixed feeling added in. On one hand, a very good plan, and on the other with a bright outlook, the deception as a means to an end just seems so wrong. Overall, I love this! Good job. Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:55:09 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Vapulan Time Travel >Time Travel has been part of the French In Nomine game for a while now >...so far as I can tell. Kronos is the Prince of Eternity and has the ability to send people through time (forward and backward) Would anyone who has this version be willing to do a write-up for the list? ah hem...Please? Jeffery _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:23:27 +0000 From: "R L" Subject: Re: IN> Anti-Christs >Later still comes the idea that the Anti-Christ is the son of >Satan, the way Christ is the son of God. Merlin is, in one medieval >story, supposed to be a failed attempt at begetting an Anti-Christ. >Later still, we get Damian and the gang. Adam, of "Good Omens" >(cited in the IN main book bibliography) is another "failed" and >benign Anti-Christ. Would that mean that there could have been more - failed - Christs as well...? That leaves all sorts of plot ideas with me...; "...ok guys... you follow up on this one, and GOD help you if this one fails as well..." Huh...HUH!?!? Ron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:40:13 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Anti-Christs R L wrote: > Would that mean that there could have been more - failed - Christs as > well...? That leaves all sorts of plot ideas with me...; > > "...ok guys... you follow up on this one, and GOD help you if this one fails > as well..." > > Huh...HUH!?!? I suppose it depends on how dualistic you want to be -- how symmetrical you want God and Satan to be. If Satan is hopelessly and infinitely outclaseed by God, as in orthodoxy, then you would expect more failures on his part than on his Opponent's. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 18:07:10 +0000 From: "R L" Subject: Re: IN> Anti-Christs > > Would that mean that there could have been more - failed - Christs as >well...? That leaves all sorts of plot ideas with me...; > > "...ok guys... you follow up on this one, and GOD help you if this one >fails as well..." >I suppose it depends on how dualistic you want to be -- how >symmetrical you want God and Satan to be. If Satan is hopelessly >and infinitely outclaseed by God, as in orthodoxy, then you >would expect more failures on his part than on his Opponent's. But really... I can already see the fraternity parties... "Hey guys.. see what happened to the loo!!!!" "Man, do you cure hangovers too??" And then for the anatomy class... Ok, so I'm a sick twisted individual, but I think it would be fun... :) Ron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:06:46 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: IN> Jeantech Time Travel (or lack thereof) There are days when Jean really loves having people like Vapula around. Being the Archangel in charge of doling out pieces of divinely inspired science and wisdom can be quite troublesome at times. Oh, the knowledge that what you do serves the greater glory of the creator is a wonderous thing, and the thrill of learning another one of God's mysteries is something that no mere angel can comprehend. But with being an Archangel comes having Servitors. Servitors who fail to understand that there must be a time and a place for everything. Servitors who fail to grasp that mankind is not yet ready to ride in a fusion powered rocket sled, or capable of marvelling at the beauty of energized plasma sustained inside a magnetic bottle. Angels, just like humans, want everything _now_. And that's where Vapula comes in. If you ever want to guarantee that a device or principle will never be used by any sane being, find a way to get the notion into Vapula's head that something is neat. Better still, attempt to arrange for one of the other Princes to specifically ask him not to do something. If the established patterns hold in your particular situation, two things will most likely occur. The first is that Vapula will agree to do (or not do) just about anything to get the 'babbling imbeciles' out of his precious laboratories. The second, and more objectively useful thing, is that Vapula will begin to wonder why the Prince took such an interest in something not occuring. Were Jean the sort to become subjective, this is where the metaphorical fun would begin... One of the main differences between the Jeantech and Vaputech research cultures is that, unlike Jeantech's approach to things, Vaputech holds that there is no such thing as a failure, only 'unexpected data that did not fit initial projections'. Where Jean holds that certain things, while possible, are not practical in theory, Vapula holds that if something can be done, there must certainly be a reason to do it. That one is not evident means nothing - it simply requires that more resources and more funding be devoted to finding its purpose. Jean assumes that this must be due to Vapula's search for divine inspiration in his Technological pursuits - not looking at discoveries logically, he takes every shred of evidence as a sign that God is trying to tell him something. This makes every new piece of senseless trivia an insight into the mind of God, which must be analysed and studied and length so that God's will might be achieved. Jean understands Vapula's fervor, in a way. Both of them feel the exact same thrill of emotion when an experiment comes out differently than they expected, and both of them realize that God is trying to tell them something. Jean has realized that more often than not, what God is trying to convey is "That doesn't work." Unfortunately for Jean this is not always the case, as Vapula, failing to realize that something is supposed to be impossible, goes right on ahead and does it. Time travel is a good example - Jean's been aware of the theories behind temporal mechanics for some time now - and although it takes considerably more than 1.21 gigawatts of electricity to bend space-time enough to allow for a celestial to enter a state of temporal malleability, it's not out of his reach by any means. However, with space-time being set in the currect patterns that it is, gallavanting around in days gone by is simply not a wise option. Were it not for the inherent dangers, Jean himself would seldom be found in this portion of space-time, preferring instead to learn more about the parts of the ancient past that have been lost to the ravages of the elements. Still, despite the dangers of time travel, and despite the lack of definitive data on temporal manipulation, quite a few people would still try it. Left unchecked, the timeline could be shattered in quick order. And that's where Vapula comes in. Give Vapula an idea. Let him run with it for a while. Watch as he takes a molehill and turns it into the mountain where God is preaching from on high. Watch as he butchers his servitors slowly and methodically in his never-ending pursuit of knowledge of "God's intentions". In little to no time at all, all the risks of a particular path of knowledge or a particular train of thought will become horrifyingly evident to anyone that comes near. People will go out of their way to stop others from delving into that field, trying to delay the metaphorical Genie's release from its bottle. And when research is finally halted, those involved will breathe a sigh of relief at having caught such an abomination in time, leaving it to Jean to determine if there is a safe way to do such things. So, in giving Vapula access to some of the more disturbing natural secrets of the universe, Jean forces Vapula into conflicts with his fellow Princes, diverts resources and personnel into unusable projects, and makes people less willing to accept Vapula's latest "gifts". All the while, Jean sits back watching the servants of Technology plod onward with their newest toys and gizmos, waiting for the timers within them to go off and destroy themselves with the knowledge that they so sought. As the angels look on, they look gratefully at their Archangel of Lightning, silently giving thanks to God that their Archangel would never bring such horrible things into the world, things the like of which they might of asked for, but now know better. There may be a few minor moral issues, but really, the logic _is_ sound... Michael Cleveland Gulf Coast Geotech _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:11:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>Question about Revelation At 7:05 PM -0700 10/24/01, Charles E Smith wrote: >Hi all! > >Where can I find information or a write-up about Litheroy? GM pack, in the GM screen. (I would go on, but the sleeping baby just rolled onto my wrist painfully.) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1652409640 has a copy of it for $5, biding ends on the 26th... - --Beth, typing w/a uncoopertive baby (iolanthe) causing typos. arcangel is nursing a trout with ARMS! ARMS that reach out and try to pound the keyboard! You say "And teeth. Ow." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:24:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vapulan Time Travel At 12:55 PM -0400 10/25/01, Jeffery Watkins wrote: >>Time Travel has been part of the French In Nomine game for a while now >>...so far as I can tell. Kronos is the Prince of Eternity and has the >ability to send people through time (forward and backward) > >Would anyone who has this version be willing to do a write-up for the list? >ah hem...Please? Remember, however, that doing so as a verbatim translation will violate the copyright of the French game. (I have no idea why SJ hasn't done anything with the time-travel stuff. I can't read his mind! Though a lack of interesting things to do with it at the moment is one possibility.) No violating copyright on the list. It be not nice. (Moriah, before my time, smacked someone down for posting a translation of the French Malphus.) However, overviews of how it works are okay. "He's got this attunement that does X" would seem to be cool by me. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2422 ********************************