in_nomine-digest Wednesday, February 27 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2559 In this digest: IN> Helldiving Re: IN> He who lives by the Soul-kill.... Re: IN> Helldiving IN> roleplaying before creation Re: IN> He who lives by the Soul-kill.... Re: IN> roleplaying before creation Re: IN> Clarification on Orphan Status Re: IN> He who lives by the Soul-kill.... Re: IN> Helldiving Re: IN> roleplaying before creation IN> "Rose Is Rose" angel Re: IN> "Rose Is Rose" angel Re: IN> roleplaying before creation IN> Triad 314 - Vendettas (Pt 1) Re: IN> Re: Rules Questions, regarding an absence of Corporeal Forces Re: IN> Helldiving Re: IN> Clarification on Orphan Status Re: IN> roleplaying before creation IN> INS/MV characters posted Re: IN> About The War... Re: IN> About The War... Re: IN> roleplaying before creation Re: IN> He who lives by the Soul-kill.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:27:56 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Helldiving (For Moe) :-) Sometimes, it's not easy being an Ofanite of Fire. Pursuing criminals on the run from the law sounds great until you realise that you may have to hand the criminal over to Dominic...and what do you do if your quarry turns out to be a demon on the run from The Game? Well over a century ago, one Burning Wheel decided that the solution to the problem of one of Belial's Renegades was to persuade him to return to Hell; following the Renegade, the angel dove into the burning pool of lava containing the demon's Heart, and brought the Heart out for the demon to destroy. Although the mission was successful, Soldekai had to chew him out - going to Hell without orders? Very naughty. With orders, however.... Soldekai really wants Belial destroyed. And he thinks he's found Belial's weakness. All of those Hearts..their only protection the burning lava... At some point in their careers, every Ofanite of Fire now gets ordered to practice diving into lava and recovering a Heart-sized object. Soldekai's plan is elegantly simple. Once he's happy with the discipline of his Ofanim, they will, in groups, Vessel-kill a few demons of Fire and follow them to their Hearts. Fanning out, they'll each grab a demonic Heart and head for the River Phlegethon. From there they race downstream, continually trying to return to Heaven; when they succeed the Heart (which cannot leave Hell) will fall into the River and be swept downstream to the River Acheron - and Shal-Mari, home of Belial's enemies: Haagenti, Furfur and Kobal. There are complications, of course. There are guards on Sheol's borders; some watch the river for defectors, and they could intercept the Hearts.. Soldekai has Cherubim attuned to rocks near the border posts - when he gives the order they will lead flights of Malakim down to hell to exterminate the border guards - and not just on the river, Soldekai realises that he cannot allow Belial to realise what's going on, so a complicated series of raids has been designed to conceal the actual target. Also, the raids should occupy Belial's attention - for the plan to work, Belial cannot know about it until after the Heart's have left Sheol, or he can simply change Sheol's geography to prevent them leaving. And occupying Belial's attention is not good for an angel's life expectancy - the angels will be ordered to immediately flee across the border and/or return to Heaven should Belial arrive, but Soldekai knows that he going to lose people. Further, Sodekai will have to time letting the Demon Princes know about the plan exquisitely - too soon, they'll be able to arrange the destruction (or worse) or his angels, too late, and they won't be able to seize the Hearts before Belial recovers them. Still, Soldekai thinks that it's worth the risks. Every Heart leaving Sheol means a demon getting dissonance; means that the demon can be spied on by Belial's enemies while in the Corporeal, and falls into those enemies hands when they return to Hell; means that any demon currently in Trauma is going to stay that way for much longer. And given that Belial *made* those Hearts, they're his creation, his fire...maybe, just maybe, he'll pick up dissonance every time he loses a Servitor because of them...... Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:49:22 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: Re: IN> He who lives by the Soul-kill.... > From: "William J. Keith": > Oohh. *Nasty*. Thank You! >You're right, I could see these getting out of control > real fast. Tee hee hee... >Perhaps Heaven could ban their creation, and let Calabim with > grudges against each other duke it out, and then share the meme with their > buddies.... There's two problem with that. Firstly, how are you going to stop the Calabim from hunting angels? Secondly, Laurence has also sworn the oath to not suffer an evil to live is it's his choice. He can't vote for that ban without getting dissonance, and as C-in-C his vote is pretty hefty - especially as a large number of the Enhancer Talismans will take sword form in the Celestial. Even if he couldn't prevent the vote, he could argue that being about Artifacts the vote should be postponed until Eli has returned. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:11:02 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Helldiving james walker wrote: > Still, Soldekai thinks that it's worth the risks. Every Heart leaving Sheol> means a demon getting dissonance; Which doesn't benefit Heaven. > means that the demon can be spied on by > Belial's enemies while in the Corporeal, Which doesn't benefit Heaven. > and falls into those enemies hands > when they return to Hell; means that any demon currently in Trauma is going> to stay that way for much longer. Which benefits Heaven only slightly. > And given that Belial *made* those Hearts, they're his creation, his > fire...maybe, just maybe, he'll pick up dissonance every time he loses a> Servitor because of them...... So they're going to stage a great big enormously risky raid which will result in soul-killed angels in order to help Kobal and Haagenti screw Belial? With no indication that this plan will do anything to help Gabriel or further Heaven's goals? Sticking pins in Belial is always nice, but this seems like an extreme mission for very little gain. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:39:37 -0500 (EST) From: Arthur Roberts Subject: IN> roleplaying before creation This is a MIME encoded message. - --=_2884fe30e52302041fb377135d2f9535 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there any potential for roleplaying prior to creation? - --=_2884fe30e52302041fb377135d2f9535-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:35:10 -0500 From: misha89@comcast.net Subject: Re: IN> He who lives by the Soul-kill.... (I sent this once already, but I'm having issues with my ISP. Apologies if this has already been posted once.) > Something that struck me last night - Enhancer Talismans (LR 59). > Malakim gain a weapon skill (and the Enhancer can be a >Celestial weapon) and Murderous while Calabim gain Unarmed >and Berserk. Well... sort of. A Malakite gets a bonus to a Weapon skill, but Enhancer Talismans are necklaces, not weapons. You could probably create something in the form of a weapon with similar effects, but it ought to be significantly more expensive. I have my doubts about classing Enhancer Talismans as Celestial Artifacts, anyway. I think they make more sense as Ethereal Talismans, with some Special Features added ("Celestials Only", "Harms User"). Perhaps this could qualify as errata... Beth? > A Celestial combat between a Malakite & and a Calabite both armed >with Enhancer Talismans isn't going to end until somebody has been >soul-killed; and this leaves the winner with another Relic to trade with >their friends. Um, how does this follow? OK, a Berserk Calabite isn't likely to leave a fight, but Murderous doesn't make a Malakite less likely to withdraw if he's getting the worst of the fight. If his Perception is higher than the Calabite's, he can just run away, and the Calabite can't catch him; he can also, if he makes his Will roll, ascend to Heaven at any time. Anyway, it's not like you can pull your punches in Celestial Combat, so Murderous doesn't have any special effect there. If the effect of this artifact would be that one side would lose the option of retreating while the other side had no matching disadvantage, then you'd think the side that who lost flexibility would figure out they were at a disadvantage, and would stop using the artifacts. > Given how cheap Enhancer Talismans are, both sides would have >large numbers of lunatics running around with them. "Cheap" is a relative term, I suppose. 1 point per level isn't enormously expensive, but the side effects are unpleasant, and for about the same cost, you can get a regular talisman. (3 points for a level/3 Enhancer Talisman, and 4 points for a level/3 regular talisman with the -2 pt Feature "Owner can be tracked".) It seems to be that the side effects would make it much less likely that anyone would want to produce them in quantity, even if they were slightly easier to make. - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:36:24 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: Re: IN> roleplaying before creation >Is there any potential for roleplaying prior to creation? I suppose so. I could easly see Novalis, Jean, and Eli sitting on the couch chucking dice. What kind of games would there be before creation, though? Probably just D&D. I think Michael would like D&D. Just kidding, I know what you mean, I think there was a discussion about this like a year and a half ago. At least, there was a long one about prefall adventureing. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 05:43:50 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Clarification on Orphan Status - --- David Edelstein wrote: > > but I need to know where the> rules are that clarify > whether or not a Servitor of a> dead Superior is still > subject to that Superior's > > dissonance conditions. > > The GMG, and IIRC, the answer is "No." (But don't say > that to the Tsayadim...) OTOH, you can always have Orphans subject to their dead Superiors Dissonance conditions -- then remind the players that said Superior is no longer around to remove Dissonance. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The other beattitude that's not in the book is this: 'Blessed are those who are pleasant to live with.'" - -- Rev. Claudette Copeland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:48:33 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: Re: IN> He who lives by the Soul-kill.... On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, james walker wrote: > Secondly, Laurence has also sworn the oath to not suffer an evil to live is > it's his choice. He can't vote for that ban without getting dissonance, and > as C-in-C his vote is pretty hefty - especially as a large number of the > Enhancer Talismans will take sword form in the Celestial. > Even if he couldn't prevent the vote, he could argue that being about > Artifacts the vote should be postponed until Eli has returned. > This doesn't seem like a valid point to me. Banning one type of artifact isn't allowing evil to live -- it's just saying you won't use one particular methiod of killing them because it of its flaws. Moreover, Larry has another oath requiring him to use the best weapons available, and an artifact which inflicts Murderous has a pretty hefty flaw associated with it. Moreover, it's effectively a Discord, and Larry is a Malakite formerly associated with Purity -- I seriously doubt he would look kindly on _any_ angel who was willing to stain themselves for a quick shortcut to skill prowess that they really ought to have developed through Martial Training and Discipline (both subsets of his Word). Ryan R. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 05:51:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Helldiving As a means of fighting Belial, I see holes in this plan. As a way of helping redemption candidates flee the Game, it has merit. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The other beattitude that's not in the book is this: 'Blessed are those who are pleasant to live with.'" - -- Rev. Claudette Copeland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 05:56:40 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> roleplaying before creation - --- Arthur Roberts wrote: > Is there any potential for roleplaying prior to creation? Not really. However, you could set a campaign during creation; the PC's could take part in the actual making of the world. One problem; you're stuck with an all-angel campaign, as this era precedes the Fall by eons. That's unless you want to rewrite the IN timeline a lot. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "The other beattitude that's not in the book is this: 'Blessed are those who are pleasant to live with.'" - -- Rev. Claudette Copeland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:42:38 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> "Rose Is Rose" angel Today's "Rose Is Rose," at: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/roseisrose/index.html and those for the previous two days all have entertaining looks at the guardian angel of Rose's little boy, who appears to be a very zealous cherub of Zadkiel... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:53:18 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> "Rose Is Rose" angel Or of Christopher. I always thought the angel was a Cherub (or Malakite even) or Christopher. >From: Earl Wajenberg >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: IN> "Rose Is Rose" angel >Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:42:38 -0500 > >and those for the previous two days all have entertaining >looks at the guardian angel of Rose's little boy, who appears >to be a very zealous cherub of Zadkiel... > >Earl - -Bevan - ------- "We've always been under siege. The 'Real World' keeps shoving us into corners -- so we've built some worlds of our own. Now whoever's controlling this... wants to take those worlds away. Well, I call that interplanetary war." -T. Campbell, "Fans: the Fandom Menace" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:57:41 -0800 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> roleplaying before creation I am reminded of Neil Gaiman's short story Murder Mysteries. Excellent story of bad stuff going down in Heaven before creation. I know this was mentioned on the list a long time ago, but there is an excellent audio adaptation of that story at scifi.com http://www.scifi.com/set/playhouse/murder/ Brian A. Rogers - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Walton Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 05:56:40 -0800 (PST) To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> roleplaying before creation > > --- Arthur Roberts wrote: > > Is there any potential for roleplaying prior to creation? > > Not really. However, you could set a campaign during > creation; the PC's could take part in the actual making of > the world. One problem; you're stuck with an all-angel > campaign, as this era precedes the Fall by eons. That's > unless you want to rewrite the IN timeline a lot. > > ===== > Michael Walton, #9805-068 > "The other beattitude that's not in the book is this: > 'Blessed are those who are pleasant to live with.'" > -- Rev. Claudette Copeland > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > - -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:09:09 From: "Michael Cleveland" Subject: IN> Triad 314 - Vendettas (Pt 1) "So, what are we going to tell him, Muriel?" The Seraph slowly turned her head to face the Ofanite that was in the driver's seat. "Well, I don't think we should be in any trouble on this one, Laris. I mean, we were approached to defend another member of the Host from another Servitor of Judgment. Technically we probably didn't have to do it, but I don't see there having been a problem with our actions." "But you know how the Boss hates us dealing with Creationers, Muri." >From the backseat of the convertible, a voice rumbled, "Only when we're doing prosecution. We've never done defense before. This should give Dominic something new to scream at us about..." Muriel shook her head. "No, I don't think so. We've been accused of being overzealous in our investigations, but never in our sentencing. They've always received a fair trial, and even Dominic knows that we're not the type to decide sentence beforehand and then come up with a verdict. Besides, we weren't the ones that were being overzealous. And besides, when the Archangel of Creation sends word that he wants to make sure that a trial is just, I take that seriously. We'll be ok, Jack." Laris muttered, "Even though we lost..." Muriel whipped her head around to face Laris. "We did _not_ lose. Yitzai was guilty. That's all there was to it. It's up to the appeals triad to overturn the sentence that was handed down. For now, it's out of our hands. Besides, we put up the good fight, didn't we?" Jack nodded. "And how - I swear, when we see Dominic, he's going to be less than pleased with all the exceptions and minor sentences that we managed to rack up. Nothing like handing your Archangel a bunch of sticky-notes with 'Please smack Jack the Cherub for the sin of whatever.' to get you hustled right up the ladder of promotion, let me tell you." Laris turned back to face the Cherub as he took a curve, making everyone else's eyes widen slightly. "Man, what was with that? I mean, I've heard of people who believe in 'letter of the law' interpretations, but I've never seen you get hammered on so hard in my life! I mean, Seraphim can get harsh some days, but Judge Squavariel was just raking you over the coals for the tiny stuff. You shouldn't have gotten written up like that, Jack. If you'd only have..." "Squeaky the Freak would have just written him up again for failing to accept Judgment. The stuck up little bitch only cares about what she sees as the Truth and what she sees as Just. If she were to fall this very moment, I really don't think that her perspective on the world would change a whole lot. The woman is so self-righteous at times that I wonder if she even remembers what it means to be Truly righteous." There was a silence in the car as Jack and Laris looked mutely at each other - - both of them knew of the very deep and personal animosity that Muriel held towards the leader of Triad 226. The two Seraphim had never come to blows while in Heaven, but on the corporeal plane both of them had traded more than just baleful glares and unkind words. Their 'debates' were well known amongst other Judges, and most people knew to stay well clear when the two of them were having to deal with each other. After a few minutes of quiet driving, Laris spoke softly. "Muri, you know that's why Eli tracked you down, don't you? He knew you'd give it your all to try and protect Yitzai from her. He knew you'd make it a personal thing, not just a legal proceeding. " Muriel continued looking out at the road, not saying a word. After a moment, Laris continued. "Look Muri, it's ok. We're angels, not machines. Some things, some cases... even some people will get to us. It's not like what we did was a bad thing, after all -" Muriel muttered. "Yeah, yeah. Preach to the choir. I let my personal feelings cloud my reasoning. I let my anger, my pride get in the way of my judgment. I tried to beat Squavariel at her own game, and I lost." Jack reached over and squeezed the Seraph's shoulder as Laris patted her leg reassuringly. Laris shook his head, smiling. "Like you said earlier, Muri - it's not about winning or losing. It's about being Just. And even though some days it sure feels like we're getting nowhere with the job that we're doing, we _are_ making a difference. You've got to keep sight of that. Nobody's keeping score here except God." "And your Archangel." Laris chuckled. "Yeah, I suppose the old man is keeping track of things too, but that's his job. After all, if he wasn't upstairs sending us out to face angry hordes of ungrateful and uncaring infidels -" Muriel leaned back and put her hand over her face. "Then he'd be in the backseat of our convertible, sitting right behind the driver and taking notes on everything we said and did. At least, that would fit with our luck, wouldn't it, Laris?" Laris shook his head. "No way - we've got the Old Man's schedule down pat. The Most Just isn't going to show up for at least another 3 days. I mean, what are the odds... of... um..." In the unoccupied seat, a very light incandescent glow was replaced by the translucent yet unforgettable visage of the Archangel of Judgment. Settling into the seat, he looked into the rear-view mirror to meet the Ofanite's eyes. "You were saying something about the odds of the Archangel of Judgment changing his schedule without you knowing about it ahead of time. There was also something that you hadn't spoken aloud about my descending from on high to mingle with the commoners, but you haven't gotten there quite yet. Please, don't allow this 'old man' to interrupt you, Laris." Jack looked over towards the robed figure. "Most Just - welcome to... welcome to Interstate 10, your Holiness. How long have you been with us today?" Dominic turned to the Cherub seated beside him. "Long enough to get a better idea of what is said about me when I'm not around. I like to keep my schedule somewhat open for purposes just like this. So, I take it that you were trying to get away from Lake Charles before I contacted you again. Am I correct?" Muriel turned backwards to face the cowled Seraph behind her. "That's only one of many potential ways one could see our heading towards Houston. I assure you that there are several other reasons that we were going this way. The fact that we finished our latest assignment ahead of schedule and had several days to kill only heightened our resolve and expedited our timeframe, Most Just." "Of course, Muriel. But you're going to turn around and head back there right now." Everyone, save Dominic, grabbed onto the closest handle as Laris whipped the car into a spin that ended on the other side of the road, heading back the direction they came. Dominic nodded approvingly. "Very good, Laris. Now, a situation has arisen that the local Triad on scene has been unable to handle. You have been assigned to provide additional support to them, given your unique position." The Ofanite at the wheel turned to look at his Archangel questioningly. "Sir, I'm not aware of any particular status that we hold... at least, none that would cause us to be called on, sir." Dominic nodded again. "Normally, this might be true. However your last job in Lake Charles changes things." Dominic sighed heavily before continuing. "My last set of instructions had you all watching a Vapulan outpost. Now, I'm assuming that the reason that you're on the road is that you already know that this outpost no longer exists. What you may not have been aware of is that a Shedite of Technology by the name of Rekza and his associates were expected at this outpost later in the week to test some new devices. Now, it appears that a certain group of angels whose names I will not mention at this time took it upon themselves to burn down this very establishment that you were told to watch." Muriel paled as her Archangel's gaze took on the intensity that was reserved for people who were on trial. "Sir, if you'll spare me a few moments, I can explain -" Dominic turned his head to look out the window for a moment. "Did I say it was you, Muriel? I don't believe that I've officially cast blame for this as yet. Now, as I was saying, when the outpost burned to the ground, it also took out the spies that the Archangel of Lightning had in place to capture the design schematics and the original prototypes. Now, certainly the people responsible for the fire had no way to know that Jean had agents in place, and that their job was to alert their superiors who would then inform Lightning that they could begin operations. But the damage is now done - the Shedite knows he's been discovered, and both he and his entourage have started making a run for the closest Tether, which is at one of the local casinos. Fortunately, another Triad was in place to force them to take an alternate route, but in the process they've lost one of their members and the two remaining judges are in opposition as to what course of action to take." Jack reached into his pocket, pulled out a palmtop and started typing on the screen. "All right. Vapunet's got a personnel file on Rekza. If this information is correct, his typical MO has him sticking to tried and true paths whenever possible. He'll probably want to stay on the major roads, rather than try and take the back routes. File says that he'll most likely have two or three Impudites with him as escorts. That's probably how he found the Triad." The Archangel nodded. "Quite possible. I see that you still have yet to turn over that confounded Vapulan device to Lightning's R&D teams. I expect this to be done in a timely fashion - all Infernal devices are supposed to be handed over to the proper authorities. You should know this... ah. You stole another one. In that case, I expect this one to be handed over as well, once you're done using it for this assignment. And let me guess - the Djinn who owned it is dead, so you decided to make sure it didn't fall into human hands. The people in the Halls of Progress are going to be getting to know the three of you on a first name basis, I see. How many other devices did you take with you?" Muriel slumped down in her seat. "Take it. It's all in the trunk. With the exception of Jack's latest connection to Vapunet that you already know about. We'll get right on this one, sir. By the way, hypothetically speaking, what's going to happen to the angels who bolloxed the mission, sir?" Dominic made a motion that roughly translated as a serpentine shrug under his cloak. "The main concern in the capture of the Shedite's hard drive and the plans. That should be your primary focus, not charges that have yet to be levied against anyone. The facility would have been destroyed anyway - if the primary objective is accomplished, I'm quite certain that the timing of the explosion could be written off as a minor error in judgment due to information not in evidence at that time, and would only appear in those angel's files as a footnote. That being said, I'm sure that your associates in Triad 226 will be anticipating your arrival." "Triad 226, sir? But -" Triad 226, Muriel. Squavariel has been informed of your impending rendezvous. I have every confidence that the two of you will find a way to make this mission go expeditiously and smoothly. I will now allow you to get back to your original conversations, though. I believe that Laris was making a comment about odds. And on that subject, let me remind you that one should not attempt to beat the odds unless one is sure one wishes to take the chances of the odds beating you." The shimmering image of the Archangel of Judgment faded, leaving Jack and Muriel looking at the Ofanite driver with looks that could vaporize even the strongest armor. The Ofanite shrugged, and focused on the road. "Hey, so Dominic varies his schedule from time to time. Who knew? OWWW!!!!" (to be continued) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:18:55 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Rules Questions, regarding an absence of Corporeal Forces At 10:19 AM +1100 2/27/02, james walker wrote: >> From: Elizabeth McCoy >> Subject: Re: IN> >>At 9:15 PM +1100 2/25/02, james walker wrote: >>>Hi! - rules questions: >>> >>>It's possible for Shedim & Kyriotates to enter Trauma with no Corporeal >>>Forces (as they enter Celestial form when their host dies). >> >> Eh? Only if they got into celestial combat, first, and lost all their >> Corporeal Forces, >Nuh. >A Shedite or Kyriotate who has their (last) host killed goes celestial - >they then have (10 Minutes * their Celestial Forces) to find a new host >IN(p103 & 152). Okay, now I see what you're getting at... _Poooisonally_, I would be real tempted to force them to return to their Hearts once they lost their last Corporeal Force, just as I would be disinclined to allow a celestial with no Corporeal Forces to go to Earth in the first place. Otherwise... Trauma is supposed to be based on Corporeal Forces in that it reflects how "tied" you are to the corporeal realm, how entertwined you are with the Symphonic themes there. I could see minimum 1 day, or I could see, well... no Trauma. You aren't tied to the themes of the corporeal realm, you don't have any Trauma from being parted from it abruptly. The ultimate answer there depends on whether one wants to lean toward game balance, or alleged in-game this-is-how-the-world-works methodology. Most Kyrios are going to be in trouble anyway -- if the host dies, wham, dissonance. That cuts out their resonance for a while, so they're going to be lucky if they can grab a new one before they're yanked Upstairs. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:25:33 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Helldiving At 5:27 PM +1100 2/27/02, james walker wrote: [...] >his Ofanim, they will, in groups, Vessel-kill a few demons of Fire and >follow them to their Hearts. _That_ doesn't work -- if one is returning to one's Heart in Trauma, one is in a "diffuse" state. Now, if they can get a few _Renegades_ of Fire, or intimidate (Will Shackle?) enough into returning, that's different. >continually trying to return to Heaven; This is, IIRC, automatic unless you've been nailed with a Song of Seals, entrapping artifact, or a Prince's, er, Princely Ineffable Powers. >There are complications, of course. There are guards on Sheol's borders; >some watch the river for defectors, and they could intercept the Hearts.. >Soldekai has Cherubim attuned to rocks near the border posts In HELL? HOW? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:20:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Clarification on Orphan Status At 12:00 AM -0600 2/27/02, David Edelstein wrote: [...] >The GMG, and IIRC, the answer is "No." (But don't say that to the >Tsayadim...) Uriel's not dead! He's just... not answering his email. Really. That's the ticket. Honest. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:26:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> roleplaying before creation At 7:39 AM -0500 2/27/02, Arthur Roberts wrote: >Is there any potential for roleplaying prior to creation? With the right GM, I don't see why not... Everyone's angels, though, so it's probably going to be rather cerebral. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:16:37 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> INS/MV characters posted Hey, I just posted the character stats of the players in my In Nomine Satanis / Magna Veritas game : http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/insmvPBeM/index.html - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager, modifier et imprimer vos photos pr馩r饳. http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:15:05 -0500 (EST) From: jamoge@wm.edu Subject: Re: IN> About The War... > Actually, the Nazi Atrocities went > undiscovered/ignored for most of the > duration of WW2. The war was primarily about > territory (as usual), Britain > for example, was not interested in The Reich > grabbing large swathes of > europe until they happened to invade an ally. > And then we dragged our allies > in, and then Hitlers allies dragged others in. > It would be nice to think that it was a > righteous war to end the horrors > perpetrated on the jews, but sadly, very few > people actually cared, or even > knew. Oh... I know. Believe me... I know. After the courses I've taken with the prof's. I've taken... I know... What I was pushing in my own feeble In Nomine saturated imagination was that the celestials, both sides, knew long before the Allies about Germany's atrocities, and that this is one of the reasons Michael would get involved. That said, WW2 is stated (somewhere) in > canon as having been the last > time Baal tried to jump-start armageddon. > 'Luckily' for the world, the Nazis > got to the Holiest Man on Earth before Baal's > demons could, averting that > particular trumpet (2 or 3 I think). > That, I didn't know. And here I was thinking I had assimilated almost all canon... Where would I find this little wee bit of knowledge? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:26:46 From: "Daniel Gallagher" Subject: Re: IN> About The War... >That, I didn't know. And here I was thinking I had >assimilated almost all canon... Where would I find this >little wee bit of knowledge? > > >Josh I think it's in the GM's guide in the timeline. I don't remember the part about the Nazi's getting to the Worlds Holiest Man, though I seem a logical reason why the armageddon didn't work. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:27:47 -0500 (EST) From: jamoge@wm.edu Subject: Re: IN> roleplaying before creation Quoting Arthur Roberts : > Is there any potential for roleplaying prior to > creation? > Sure. PC: My kyriotate wants to *bliss* for five hundred years. GM: Roll the dice. PC: I get three sixes. GM: Ooo... 12 with a CD of 6. Good work. Your kyriotate *blisses* for five hundred years and regains 6 essence. PC: Yay! Josh Ain't I fuuuuunny. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:06:24 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: Re: IN> He who lives by the Soul-kill.... > From: misha89@comcast.net: > >> Something that struck me last night - Enhancer Talismans (LR 59). >> Malakim gain a weapon skill (and the Enhancer can be a Celestial > weapon) and >> Murderous while Calabim gain Unarmed and Berserk. > > Well... sort of. A Malakite gets a bonus to a Weapon skill, but Enhancer > Talismans are necklaces, not weapons. You could probably create > something in the form of a weapon with similar effects, but it ought to > be significantly more expensive. They're only necklaces in corporeal form; their Celestial form can vary (LR p 11). Even if the form is a necklace, that won't inconvenience a Malakite of Creation; while a Relic/1 with a Sword form would work for anyone else. > > I have my doubts about classing Enhancer Talismans as Celestial > Artifacts, anyway. I think they make more sense as Ethereal Talismans, > with some Special Features added ("Celestials Only", "Harms User"). > Perhaps this could qualify as errata... Beth? A paragraph of the description is concerned with their functioning in the Celestial Realms, something that Ethereal Talismans cannot do... Also, they do (or at least, are rumoured) to affect Ethereals. > >> A Celestial combat between a Malakite & and a Calabite both armed with >> Enhancer Talismans isn't going to end until somebody has been > soul-killed; >> and this leaves the winner with another Relic to trade with their > friends. > > Um, how does this follow? OK, a Berserk Calabite isn't likely to leave a > fight, but Murderous doesn't make a Malakite less likely to withdraw if > he's getting the worst of the fight. Yes it does: "The check digit of the failed Will roll determines how many rounds he will fight to kill before his murderous nature is sated" IN p89. >> Given how cheap Enhancer Talismans are, both sides would have large > numbers >> of lunatics running around with them. > > "Cheap" is a relative term, I suppose. 1 point per level isn't > enormously expensive, but the side effects are unpleasant, and for about > the same cost, you can get a regular talisman. (3 points for a level/3 > Enhancer Talisman, and 4 points for a level/3 regular talisman with > the -2 pt Feature "Owner can be tracked".) No: Firstly, you cannot use regular Talismans in the Celestial Realms. Secondly, you can take features on Enhancer Talismans - while this won't reduce your base cost, it does mean you can gain other funky features with the Enhancements you're prepared to accept. Thirdly, the Celestials concerned won't consider the side effects particularly unpleasant. "On no, my Calabite wants to fight..my Malakite *really* wants to kill demons!". For that matter, an Enhancer Talisman makes it harder for a Malakite to get dissonance. Finally, they have other uses; loaning one to a friend is useful in non-combat situations, unlike a normal combat skill Talisman. > > It seems to be that the side effects would make it much less likely that > anyone would want to produce them in quantity, even if they were > slightly easier to make. > Those side effects make them more popular for some people. Andre would like all his Lilim to have one (it grants them Lust) and Beleth would like her Impudites to have them (granting them Fear), and every DP would want some of their Habbalah to have some (depending on the resulting Need). That's before the skill bonuses! Also, the flexibility of the items makes them useful for dealing with different situations. Returning to Andre, although he will be handing them out to Lilim at the moment, the moment the Armageddon looms, his Lilim would be ordered to hand their Enhancer Talismans over to his Calabim, ready for the battle; Beleth probably does this whenever the War in The Marches hots up. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2559 ********************************