in_nomine-digest Tuesday, August 27 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2753 In this digest: RE: IN> The Songs of Age Re: IN>History of Alternate Universe RE: IN> The Songs of Age Re: IN>History of Alternate Universe Re: IN> advice needed IN>Fallen Eli? Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development RE: IN> Hello everyone Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development [OT] God's Dice (was Re: IN>A MINOR setback...) Re: IN>Fallen Eli? RE: IN> The Songs of Age Re: IN>Fallen Eli? Re: IN>Suggestions for Fallen Jean Re: IN>A MINOR setback... RE: IN> The Songs of Age but EDG shouldn't read because I still d o not totally agree with him Re: IN>History of Alternate Universe Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development Re: IN>Suggestions for Fallen Jean IN> IN / Reign of Fire *spoilers* RE: IN>Fallen Eli? Re: IN> The Songs of Age Re: IN> The Songs of Age Re: IN> IN / Reign of Fire *spoilers* IN> Las Vegas IN> That Damn Mercurian Resonance IN> Personality Quiz Re: IN>Fallen Eli? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:48:14 +0200 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> The Songs of Age - -----Original Message----- From: EDG [mailto:anthoch@earlham.edu] It bothers me that you're reacting as though the examples were the be-all and end-all of the Song's power. (Even if you treat them as ultimate limits, they're not - a fully-powered starting character with a good check digit could reduce someone in his late 40s to an infant, or raise a toddler to a 50-year-old's maturity level.) It's a fool's errand to try and describe everything any character ever could possibly do with a power: much better simply to give examples and hope that people will realize that that's not all the Song can do. - -EDG **** Huh? It bothers me that hyper-intelligent and near-infinite beings of immortal life spans would not consider every permutation of an idea, especially one that had such power. One servant of Kobal with this Song at level one could take a couple of teenagers who just got their drivers licenses and wipe out a mall full of people. All he needs to do is play that one scene from "The Blues Brothers" for them. Make that servant a Balseraph, and you can guarantee a really high body count. Without any more disturbance than the one song. All he needs is a "six" on the check digit and one essence and "bam" ten-year-olds driving cars. Teens are dangerous enough behind the wheel as it is. Give Kobal's pal a "three" check digit, which means average roll and one can assume he will get that most of the time, spend two essence, and he has the same thing. This is neither unusual, nor an excessive use of the Song. Heck, it's possible with a level of one with it's use and some luck. It's not like actual skill with the Song is tied to it's success. More importantly, when working on game design things, I always give strongest consideration to the worst excesses of the point in question. I may have falsely assumed you were posting the idea for our consideration as a means of "play testing" your idea and were open to criticism. As strong a truism as Murphy's Law, "Any abuse of a power or ability a Player Character might be capable of will eventually occur in a game some time" and the corollary addition is "and they will always say they have a good reason". How can you not take into consideration what people will try to do with it? Okay, the Corporeal effect didn't trip off any alarms, and neither did the Celestial effect, but the Ethereal one did as soon as I read it, and bothered me enough that I couldn't wait to get off my current watch station in three hours and go look up the Book of Songs for possible durations in hours besides the Numinous Corpus Songs. (I'm not certain of them, but it seems some of them might if memory serves me correctly.) I am not against the idea of a Song that effects aging of the mind and maturity instead of the physical shell, but to toss your quote back to you, more the fool you if you do not consider all things someone might use your Song for. People who realize more than you what the Song can do will certainly screw up your game when you least expect it. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:58:15 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN>History of Alternate Universe Sounds great so far- I'm wondering if the Beleth would actually retain her Word of Fear as the sole remaining Archangel dealing with the Marches. Perhaps a Word-upgrade showing that she has been entrusted with mankind's dreams? Also, in the vein of the Marches, you say that Uriel wiped out most of the Ethereals, but the remaining ones have aligned fully with Heaven. How has that affected them? Has Heaven been able to use the Ethereals to establish beachheads in the Marches? Will there be Ethereal servitors of Archangels? Oh, and when will we be seeing the dark Eli? Looking forward to an Eli that actually Fell. Hmm... on that note- could Eli be seen as a Legion like menace? At least to Heaven? As for name- how about the INverse? You know, inversed IN universe? Heh. Well, it worked in my mind anyway... Josh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:11:50 -0400 From: EDG Subject: RE: IN> The Songs of Age At 01:48 AM 8/27/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Huh? It bothers me that hyper-intelligent and near-infinite beings of >immortal life spans would not consider every permutation of an idea, >especially one that had such power. Yes, but just because a gun could easily be turned on one's teammates doesn't mean you don't give one to everyone in the team. >One servant of Kobal with this Song at level one could take a couple of >teenagers who just got their drivers licenses and wipe out a mall full of >people. All he needs to do is play that one scene from "The Blues Brothers" >for them. Make that servant a Balseraph, and you can guarantee a really >high body count. You could do exactly the same thing with the Celestial Song of Charm. Drop these teens' Will to 0 and then tell them to drive through the mall in their cars and do as much damage as possible, and they won't be able to say no. >Give Kobal's pal a "three" check digit, which means average roll and >one can assume he will get that most of the time... You're making an erroneous assumption. On the check digit, without taking auto-successes or risk into account, no result is any more likely than any other. So no. He'll get a 3 check digit 1/6 of the time, just like any other result. >...spend two essence, and he >has the same thing. This is neither unusual, nor an excessive use of the >Song. Heck, it's possible with a level of one with it's use and some luck. >It's not like actual skill with the Song is tied to it's success. The same can be said of many, many Songs. I don't know why you're singling this one out. >More importantly, when working on game design things, I always give >strongest consideration to the worst excesses of the point in question. I >may have falsely assumed you were posting the idea for our consideration as >a means of "play testing" your idea and were open to criticism. 1) I am open to criticism. This feels like you're taking pot-shots. 2) Your original point came across as "This could be abused, therefore Eli and Novalis wouldn't condone it". I'm afraid that's not a position I can agree with or sympathize with: Eli and Novalis give out a *lot* of abusable abilities. Consider Transsubstantiation (hey, look, water to napalm) or Seraph of Flowers (effectively, nobody can attack me at close range, *ever*). How are those less abusable than the Ethereal Song of Age? >As strong a truism as Murphy's Law, "Any abuse of a power or ability a >Player Character might be capable of will eventually occur in a game some >time" and the corollary addition is "and they will always say they have a >good reason". >How can you not take into consideration what people will try to do with it? I'm well aware of that. I try to take the implications of anything I design into account, and in my opinion this is no more abusable or dangerous than any number of existing powers. >People who realize more than you what the Song can do will >certainly screw up your game when you least expect it. Again, I don't think this is a matter of anyone realizing more than I do. This seems to be a matter of you looking at this Song and deciding that it's more abusable than anything else you can think of in canon (or so I presume; otherwise you'd have pointed out that there are Songs in canon that are potentially more dangerous than this one). Replies to this, from *anybody* should be private. This is getting close to flaming, and I'd prefer it not degenerate into such on the list. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 00:22:50 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>History of Alternate Universe > >Sounds great so far- > >I'm wondering if the Beleth would actually retain her Word of Fear as the >sole remaining Archangel dealing with the Marches. Perhaps a Word-upgrade >showing that she has been entrusted with mankind's dreams? Well, she still retains Fear, but mostly it's the Fear of what will happen if you do not get done what you must get done, rightful Fear of Hell that provokes action, Fear, and not Terror. She commands the Marches, but her Word has had many subtle changes, as she fights Despair... > >Also, in the vein of the Marches, you say that Uriel wiped out most of the >Ethereals, but the remaining ones have aligned fully with Heaven. How has >that affected them? Has Heaven been able to use the Ethereals to establish >beachheads in the Marches? Will there be Ethereal servitors of Archangels? Many Ethreals have survived, as they can gain worshippers now without interference. They can't go and -promote- themselves, but if someone chooses and spreads the word themself, it's cool. Heaven is much more free in this world (Lilith has the Word of Free Will, and Malphas has Individuality), and more concerned with making people avoid Hell period, who cares about them going to their choosen deity? As long as Hell falls... all of the good ethreals are on Heavens side, and the bad ones who joined no longer leech off mankind. There will be no ethereal servitors of Archangels (they can't get a "Choir" attunement, you know, like an Ethereal of Valor, but they can receive servitor attunements), but many ethereals help Heaven, and make up a bulk of their salvation and war effort. > >Oh, and when will we be seeing the dark Eli? Looking forward to an Eli >that >actually Fell. Soon... very soon. He's next. > >Hmm... on that note- could Eli be seen as a Legion like menace? At least >to >Heaven? Legion looks like a puppy dog next to this terror. In this world, Eli is an absolute HORROR, as his Word invokes the act of so much creation that it smothers and eats away everything, in a sick combination of Disease-Gluttony-Creation. He's utterly insane, and is near Renegade as he wishes to push his power upon mankind personally. This Eli would make Canon Eli scream with disgust and horror. His celestial form alone is a smiling young man with MASSIVE cancerous blobs of flesh growing off of him, and sickness constantly oozing from his body, as he rapidly spawns new lumps and limbs. > >As for name- how about the INverse? You know, inversed IN universe? Heh. >Well, it worked in my mind anyway... > Heh ^_^ I actually thought of this, but I want something with more... I dunno. Flair. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:28:42 -0400 From: Michael Nutt Subject: Re: IN> advice needed If you emphasize to your players from the very beginning of the game that you're looking for a cohesive group, you might be surprised what they'll come up with, and how much they can help on their own. That said, though, much of it is up to the GM. You don't have to turn up the "Superior politics" dial very high if you don't want to, but it can lead to interesting games if you play up the competitiveness angle between angels. Archangels might emphasize the need to keep relations amicable, since you're all on the side of Heaven, but they might add that it's really important that their particular Word get credit for whatever solution is found for any problem that arises. In my experience, though, you have to be able to have the Archangels criticize the PCs if they do anything that goes beyond the acceptable limits, and many GMs find it hard to say anything critical of their players, since, after all, these are usually your friends you're talking to here. This means that parties will wind up cooperating more closely and supporting each other more thoroughly than the "Superior politics" envision. If you can't imagine yourself saying to your player, "We all enjoyed the game, but Dominic's really unhappy that you helped the Creationer escape interrogation just because her player was your meatspace girlfriend. You get no XP, and he takes away your Flaming Sword", then you'll need to ease way back on the Superior politics. You also have to have players who can handle being moderately competitive with the other players. For me, at least, the most jarring element is a lack of communication from the GM to the players about the envisioned role of the party. I've been in a few games where the GM has insisted that we come up with local ties and backstory, fleshed-out Roles, and supporting cast... and then turned us into a roving strike team that never comes within 2000 miles of our home base. There's nothing quite like totally wasted points in local Area Knowledge, Servants, contacts, and Roles to make you feel good about a character that you've developed, you know? You need to think about how common celestials will be, too -- there's a good section in the Game Master's Guide on this. If celestials are extremely rare (say, 1 celestial for 1 million humans), then suddenly adding a group the size of your typical group of PC's (4-8, in my experience) will seriously unbalance the local status quo. They probably won't be "locals", assigned to the area with established Roles, and you may need to consider what effect their arrival will have on both sides. If celestials are common enough that the party can be considered "locals", just remember that there are also locals from the Other Side. In short, think about your group's mission and composition from the very beginning, and get your players to do the same. Make some decisions about the nature of celestial politics and the nature of your game universe, and communicate those decisions to your players. Don't be afraid to use the Rule of "NO" if someone comes up with a character that won't fit. - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:09:10 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: IN>Fallen Eli? Not that it's ben mentioned, has anyone -ever- made a Fallen Eli writeup? I don't think I've ever come across one, not even a proposed idea. Am I the first? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:42:26 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development Wow...the list has changed it seems since last year..or probably my ideas were waaay out there. I don't think I was ever totally ignored before. Oh well. Back to lurker mode. It IS good to see nice stuff on the list still. Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:42:59 -0300 From: "Richard Angelo" Subject: RE: IN> Hello everyone Thanks to every one that said 'Hi' And thanks to Michael Walton, Sirea Theyal, Elizabeth McCoy (Wow! the list Admin I feel so noticed) for the book ideas, when Visa and I are on speaking terms again I'll look for them :-) To Sirea Theyal, Free Cherub who asked 'what am I', I don't have a clue yet can I get back to you on that? Pretty Please. Right now I'm thinking of Diabolical game. (Hey rebelling against stereotypes is fun, 'sides with my last name I know I'll get teased about an Angelic game. ;-) ) Ok so Vegas is wide open for interpretation...hmmm this could be fun. Jim thanks for bringing up Haagenti I never thought of him. Mammon seems to come up alot, were do you find the write up for him? Can anyone think of some Words for Vegas? Gambling games of various types (Servitor of Vapula and slot machines is a nasty combination), show girls, strippers, hookers, conventions, how about a Demon of Elvis? Give me some ideas. Thanks in advance. Oh and what would Heaven's opinion on Vegas be? Thanks for listening, Richard Angelo "I still say a church steeple with a lightening rod on top shows a lack of confidence." - -Doug McLeod ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:48:20 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development At 09:42 PM 8/26/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Wow...the list has changed it seems since last year..or probably my ideas >were waaay out there. I don't think I was ever totally ignored before. Dude, it's back-to-school season. Give folks better than 24 hours to respond before thinking you're being ignored. :) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:54:07 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development At 09:04 PM 8/25/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I have a request and a small invite, full one to come later this week, but >before someone had posted a Lilim version of the Demon Princess of Death. >Would that person be willing to re-post it here if they don't mind me >using a version of it? I won't repost it to the list (it's big, and anyway not mine to repost), but I will send it privately. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 23:12:00 -0400 From: Andrew Dawson Subject: [OT] God's Dice (was Re: IN>A MINOR setback...) There are more of these at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jcdverha/scijokes/9_2.html#subindex, including a longer version of Hawking's quote and my favorite: "Who are you to tell God what to do?" -- Neils Bohr At 03:05 PM 8/26/2002 -0700, Andrew S. Ma wrote: >"God does not play with dice!" >~Albert Einstien, remarking upon the Quantum Theory > >"God not only plays with dice, he throws them where they can't be seen" >~Stephen Hawking, remarking upon Black Holes and Singularities > >"God not only throws the dice where they can't be seen, sometimes they come >back as a deck of cards!" >~A professor of mine who's name I have forgotten, remarking upon the theory >that Black Holes "evaporate" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 23:15:49 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN>Fallen Eli? > Not that it's ben mentioned, has anyone -ever- made a Fallen Eli writeup? I > don't think I've ever come across one, not even a proposed idea. Am I the > first? I'm currently running an Insane Fraction Of The Godhead version of Eli. Does that count? - -- Casca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 05:21:11 +0200 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> The Songs of Age Replies to this, from *anybody* should be private. This is getting close to flaming, and I'd prefer it not degenerate into such on the list. - -EDG Double Huh? You took offense to my points when no offense was intended. I still have neither been rude, abusive, nor insulting to you. I will, however, try to remember refrain from posting in reply to things you say since you have some problem in hearing from me. DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 23:32:01 -0400 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN>Fallen Eli? >Not that it's ben mentioned, has anyone -ever- made a Fallen Eli writeup? I >don't think I've ever come across one, not even a proposed idea. Am I the >first? I'm working on one of Eli, Prince of the Cancer - as part of *my* 'role reversal'-ish setting. (I'm holding off on posting anything about the setting till I at least get the timeline in a format people can read, though. ^^;; ) It's...mostly done, at least. If you have anything you want to ask about my writeup, feel free to privately e-mail me, though. ~S.D. Ryukage ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:29:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ong, Harvey" Subject: Re: IN>Suggestions for Fallen Jean >This sounds interesting. Are they all varients of the DPs or just all >new >attunements? Would you mind reposting them if so? It's a rather long file. Just wait a while, I'll have to go digging for them. ===== "A good author can make the mind imagine." "A great author can make the mind believe." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:41:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ong, Harvey" Subject: Re: IN>A MINOR setback... >"God not only throws the dice where they can't be seen, sometimes they >come back as a deck of cards!" God don't need no damn dice!! ===== "A good author can make the mind imagine." "A great author can make the mind believe." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 05:45:10 +0200 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> The Songs of Age but EDG shouldn't read because I still d o not totally agree with him However, I fail to see why not agreeing with the author means I cannot continue an adult debate. - -----Original Message----- You're making an erroneous assumption. On the check digit, without taking auto-successes or risk into account, no result is any more likely than any other. So no. He'll get a 3 check digit 1/6 of the time, just like any other result. ** Okay, one sixth of the time it will be three, two sixths of the time it will be lower, half the time it will be worse. I fail to see how this assists the author's point. To more correctly state my point, more than half the time, should the law of averages apply, a sixteen year old will be reduced to less than a ten year old's maturity level. The Song of Charm to Drain Will at least has the benefit of making a person only suggestible in a robotic sense, not actively destructive on their own. A person with a Will reduced to one or zero is going to wait for orders and tend to sit and drool unless motivated by outside source. ** >...spend two essence, and he >has the same thing. This is neither unusual, nor an excessive use of the >Song. Heck, it's possible with a level of one with it's use and some luck. >It's not like actual skill with the Song is tied to it's success. The same can be said of many, many Songs. I don't know why you're singling this one out. ** Because this Song was posted as a topic for discussion. Had someone posted how they thought the Song of Draining was perfectly suited to servitors of Novalis and Eli, I probably would have found debate on the Con side of the issue as well. ** >More importantly, when working on game design things, I always give >strongest consideration to the worst excesses of the point in question. I >may have falsely assumed you were posting the idea for our consideration as >a means of "play testing" your idea and were open to criticism. 1) I am open to criticism. This feels like you're taking pot-shots. 2) Your original point came across as "This could be abused, therefore Eli and Novalis wouldn't condone it". I'm afraid that's not a position I can agree with or sympathize with: Eli and Novalis give out a *lot* of abusable abilities. Consider Transsubstantiation (hey, look, water to napalm) or Seraph of Flowers (effectively, nobody can attack me at close range, *ever*). How are those less abusable than the Ethereal Song of Age? ** They don't cause what I see as unalterable psychic trauma to infants. As of yet, beyond letting a grown up act like a teenager, I haven't seen any use suggested by the author that sounds like something Eli or Novalis would condone. The reverse, making a teen act more responsible, seems very un-Eli in his current frame of mind. Novalis might like it more often, but really as of yet I have seen little that makes her more fond of it than say, Domnic, who would easily be fond of making teenagers consider the results of their actions with much more rationally. Of course, I could see Domnic wishing there was a powerful enough version to make Michael think more "rationally" by Dominic's standards. Certainly almost every Song, Power, or idea can be turned to destructive and constructive uses. The author's posted Song seemed, in it's Ethereal version, more prone to destructive uses than I consider Novalis and Eli to be fond of. The length of time it is in effect made it seem even more so, to my perceptions. I am open to discussion on the idea. ** >As strong a truism as Murphy's Law, "Any abuse of a power or ability a >Player Character might be capable of will eventually occur in a game some >time" and the corollary addition is "and they will always say they have a >good reason". >How can you not take into consideration what people will try to do with it? I'm well aware of that. I try to take the implications of anything I design into account, and in my opinion this is no more abusable or dangerous than any number of existing powers. ** My opinion differs. I am sorry to not always agree with the author, but his being upset by disagreement will not alter my perceptions of the flaws of this Song. ** >People who realize more than you what the Song can do will >certainly screw up your game when you least expect it. Again, I don't think this is a matter of anyone realizing more than I do. This seems to be a matter of you looking at this Song and deciding that it's more abusable than anything else you can think of in canon (or so I presume; otherwise you'd have pointed out that there are Songs in canon that are potentially more dangerous than this one). ** Nothing I said ever referred to this as being the most abusable Song or Power in In Nomine. I would really like to know how the author thought this. ** Replies to this, from *anybody* should be private. This is getting close to flaming, and I'd prefer it not degenerate into such on the list. ** The author should then debate by the use of conversation to prove a point and not consider disagreement an insult. ** Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 00:32:04 -0400 From: Damien A Wellman Subject: Re: IN>History of Alternate Universe On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 00:22:50 +0000 "Sirea Theyal" writes: > Legion looks like a puppy dog next to this terror. In this world, > Eli is an > absolute HORROR, as his Word invokes the act of so much creation > that it smothers and eats away everything, in a sick combination of > Disease-Gluttony-Creation. He's utterly insane, and is near Renegade > as he wishes to push his power upon mankind personally. This Eli would > make Canon Eli scream with disgust and horror. His celestial form alone is a > smiling young man with MASSIVE cancerous blobs of flesh growing off of him, > and sickness constantly oozing from his body, as he rapidly spawns new > lumps and limbs. Kinda reminds me of the last bit of _Akira_... ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:52:17 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development >Dude, it's back-to-school season. Give folks better than 24 hours to >respond before thinking you're being ignored. :) > >-EDG My apologies to the list. Patience should have been my virtue. Jeff now gaining a bit of dissonance _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:53:16 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN> Request about Superiors and new game in development >I won't repost it to the list (it's big, and anyway not mine to repost), >but I will send it privately. > >-EDG > Thank you!!!! Much appreciated!!! Jeff _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 01:59:39 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN>Suggestions for Fallen Jean >It's a rather long file. Just wait a while, I'll have to go digging for >them. Thank you!!! =) >"A good author can make the mind imagine." > >"A great author can make the mind believe." BTW, I love this quote!!! Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:51:26 +0000 From: "Fallen Seraph" Subject: IN> IN / Reign of Fire *spoilers* Saw Reign of fire at the weekend, and couldnt help putting it into IN terms... Firstly, it would make a great IN Campaign... Uriel didn't manage to get _all_ the dragons. a few were in trauma, and now they're back. and they're pissed... but what struck me most were two scenes... the first being the 'archangels' streaking through the clouds after a dragon (I can just see the Tsayadim doing this... HALO jumps anyone?) And the second being that Van Zan looks the spit of the canon Thor Circa No Dinero... And that last scene where he jumps from the tower, axe in hand, bellowing a warcry, as the dragon swoops up at him... no doubt about it. Van Zan my arse. that's Thor. :) A top film, if rather simplistic, and full of convenient Mcguffins and plot devices, but it gave me some inspiration... - -FallenSeraph. Fwooooosh. burny burny. yay! "tausend graue Mäuse mit blauen Mäusehäusern" http://www.geocities.com/archangel_nine ICQ: 110193631 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 04:41:57 -0600 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN>Fallen Eli? I have an angelic Eli writeup for a Backwards game, along with a number of other superiors. The basic concept is that he does everything for the love of God, so he's never going to fall, but he is still one of the more darkly horrific AAs -- combine absolute disregard and irresponsibility with an alien-horror element in the almost childlike desire to _keep_ creating (broken new species, mind-shattering alien languages, etc.) after Genesis, and you have Backwards Eli. The most tragic part is that he's actually _abandoned_ his ministry of his Word, which is the mystical cause for it running out of control (population explosion, overcrowded cities, cancer, overly rapid industrialization, consumerism, etc.) (In this setting, the Word-link goes two ways, and an irresponsible Word-holder will inherantly corrupt his word on Earth...) Yes, I know I've mentioned this stuff a few times now. It won't be posted to the list (too big), but I do hope to put some drafts up on a website sometime soon, perhaps within a month. (I'm very much a perfectionist, and hate showing work before it's "ready".) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Ryan M Roth Subject: Re: IN> The Songs of Age On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, EDG wrote: > Corporeal: The Corporeal Song of Age - of which the Corporeal Song of > Entropy is effectively a variant - alters the age of the target, who does > not have to be human but who must be mortal. A successful performance > increases or decreases the target's age by a number of years equal to the > check digit of the roll multiplied by the Essence spent, across a number of > rounds equal to the number of years added or subtracted. This includes all > side effects of aging or youthening, such as growth or shrinking, the > appearance or disappearance of wrinkles, etc. It presumes no outside > influences on aging: if the person would have tripped and broken his ankle > in two years, and he is aged past that point, the broken ankle does not > occur. However, if a person's age is reduced, they do experience any > outside influences that occurred (so that if a person is aged back to a > point where his leg was broken, the leg is returned to its unhealed > state). It is possible for a target to be aged to the point of death in > this fashion (although doing so to a human generates the normal disturbance > for killing a human, if the performer is celestial), but not to youthen a > target beyond the moment of birth. All effects of this Song are permanent. I could readily see a Servitor of Flowers trying to use this version to reduce an Soldier or Hellsworn to an infant so that 'they have a second chance to make the right decisions.' But as written the Song doesn't affect their mental abilities or memory, much less a Hell-given force or Destiny/Fate. So, barring interventions, trying to use this Song in this way isn't going to affect the target's behavior, possibily generating an infant devoted to Hell and with the Songs of NC: Fangs (ooh, look, he's teething! Isn't that adorab--AH! OW! GET HIM OFF ME! GET HIM OFF!) and NC: Acid (Ewww! Baby Drool!) at it's deposal. Since the Song doesn't affect Strength (as written), said baby could potentialy have the ability to punch through sheet metal. Just thought I'd toss out that image, as well as the image of dozens of people fleeing in terror from a rampaging 6-month old. :) Goo-goo, indeed. Ryan R. PS: I don't have the book with me, but isn't this virtually the same as the Ofanim of Creation attunement? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:32:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Unni Solaas Subject: Re: IN> The Songs of Age On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Ryan M Roth wrote: > Just thought I'd toss out that image, as well as the image of dozens of > people fleeing in terror from a rampaging 6-month old. :) Goo-goo, > indeed. Asterix & Son. Just read it. - -- language, n; an intangible artificial construct for obscuring one's meanings and intentions to others. -ppint. Unni Solaas ------------------------------ Date: 27 Aug 2002 17:04:35 +0200 From: Rens Houben Subject: Re: IN> IN / Reign of Fire *spoilers* On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 10:51, Fallen Seraph wrote: > Saw Reign of fire at the weekend, and couldnt help putting it into IN > terms... > Firstly, it would make a great IN Campaign... Uriel didn't manage to get > _all_ the dragons. a few were in trauma, and now they're back. and they're > pissed... Well, if you were just flying around, minding your own business, and suddenly this band of winged maniacs led by a blackwinged psychopath genocides your entire race because you don't fit into his worldview, wouldn't you be pissed? That leaves an interesting campaign twist. It's largely the angels' fault that the dragons are this pissed. Now Laurence might be all too willing to pick up where Uriel left off, but I think there's a large faction of Archangels (Jordi and Blandine at least, possibly David and Michael as well) who'll argue that one mistake ending in genocide every three millenia is more than enough and propose alternate solutions, such as finding a dragon they can calm down enough to parley with. Granted, with their race already exterminated once, they probably won't feel like peaceful discussion very much, but some would argue that the attempt should at least be made... Say, do you know any skilled and trustworthy Servitors that might be willing to take the risk? :) > A top film, if rather simplistic, and full of convenient Mcguffins and plot > devices, but it gave me some inspiration... > -FallenSeraph. Fwooooosh. burny burny. yay! - -Shad, Cherub of Lightning in service to Orc, Angel of underpaid linux sysadmins with too much time on their hands - -- Rens Houben / Shadur t'Kharn: Linux guru, programmer, geek, dreamer. GPG public key at: http://dwagon.sandwich.net/~shadur/pgpkey -- new 08/23/2000 Resume at http://dwagon.sandwich.net/~shadur/CV/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:26:18 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Las Vegas > Right now I'm thinking hard about starting the game in > Las Vegas, any info that people have on Vegas would > help, as in who runs the place in terms of Demon Prince. I think it would likely be a coalition from Shal-Mari with Valefor thrown in, but in RC4 it mentions that Angels sometimes come into LA from LV. Likely Janus has a presence there, all those tourists coming and going. Hoover Dam is just down the (rather miserably maintained) highway, and if that isn't a tether for Lightning I want to know why. (NO! It's not Vapula! It's far too reliable.) And speaking of miserable driving conditions, I wonder if the excessively tangled freeway system could become a tether for Wind. ("Hey! Did we just pass a sign that said 'Exit 111: Heaven'?") You could try: http://www.lasvegastourism.com/ It seems to have all the major tourist stuff, but it is a very slow load for a modem user. (Like me) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:26:22 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> That Damn Mercurian Resonance > Personally, I find running Infernal campaigns easier. No damn Mercurian > resonance to cuase ME dissonance. However, it generally is more popular > to go Angelic. Make the Player draw up a Relationship Tree, like the ones White Wolf puts in their books. (Names & descriptions. In ink. Hard copy. On the spot) The GM gets to fill in the type of relationship. (Target is in love with Boss, Boss thinks of Target as just another bimbo secretary. Player is appalled and complains. GM says, "What is your character going do?") Remember: RPGs are a GROUP participation activity. The GM has enough trouble coming up with a coherent plot. Players should be prepared to bring their own bells and whistles. (And nachos, and pizza. No alcohol. I hate dealing with drunk players.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:26:22 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Personality Quiz > You know those personality quizzes that tell you what kind of person you are > based on your responses to certain situations and such? [snip snap snipe] > I like the thought of basing someone's character on > their actual morality. If you suggest to someone that they do something wicked and then whisper, over and over, "Do it... Do it..." you might just be a redneck. I mean a Shedite. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:27:26 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Fallen Eli? > > > Not that it's ben mentioned, has anyone -ever- made a Fallen Eli >writeup? >I > > don't think I've ever come across one, not even a proposed idea. Am I >the > > first? > >I'm currently running an Insane Fraction Of The Godhead version of Eli. >Does >that count? > That would work to. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2753 ********************************