in_nomine-digest Sunday, September 1 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2760 In this digest: Re: IN>Something to chew on IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on IN> Asmodeus, he's so crafty Re: IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on Re: IN>Something to chew on ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 20:18:26 -0400 From: Rolland Therrien Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on - -----Original Message----- From: in_nomine-digest To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Date: Saturday, August 31, 2002 7:44 PM Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #2759 >Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:41:46 +0000 >From: "Sirea Theyal" >Subject: IN>Something to chew on > >How do you all see certain things in your game world, such as relievers, >Forces, etc? The way I see Calabim is VERY different from the canon description. Seen Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring? Remember the Balrog? THAT is how a Calabim should be describted. A monstrous being of smoke and fire, a living embodiment of destruction. Where the Ofanim is fire in motion, the Calabim is fire as weapon. The degrees of fire and smoke would change from Word to Word, of course. Calabim Thieves would be more Smoke then Fire, Calabim of Fire would be more Fire then Smoke, and so on. I do have some other ideas, but that's the main one that's been nagging at me for a while now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 20:40:13 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN>Something to chew on > For instance, when I describe or imagine a reliever, I alays envison a small > ball of fluttering light, with butterfly wings and a squeaky little voice, You don't mean like that wretched fairy in Legend of Xelda: Ocarina of Time? I HATE that little pest! Always shouting, "Hey! Hey! Hey!" Arrrgghhh! Now I'm having a "Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids" flashback! «twitch twitch writhe» Better now that I've chewed off my leg. Speaking of Relievers, can an Imp Redeem or a Reliever Fall? Or are they too puny to survive the transition? And is it possible to redeem right out of Heaven of will the Divine Light (tm) blast you to smithereens? The latter I should think, not having a Vessel as a shield. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 20:44:38 -0400 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on There's some art in GURPS: In Nomine which has always flavored my image of Relievers. In addition, I tend to see them as children, as they have the "Youth" Disadvantagein GURPS. A 3-Force Reliever would be a child just old enough to walk around and ask questions coherently (though it might be an expert in some human field of endeavour!); one that had suffered some reduction below that would be a baby that needed to develop further before interatcting properly with the world; a Reliever with more Forces would be an older child, Fledging into an adult angel. As for Forces themselves, I'm probably influenced by my physics degree; I tend to see them as colorless, slightly translucent lines which have been bent and knotted into the appropriate shape around Essence to form Essence constructs, mass, and energy; the Forces' motions are the causes of those objects' actions. It's superficially like string theory. William ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:53:25 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on > > For instance, when I describe or imagine a reliever, I alays envison a >small > > ball of fluttering light, with butterfly wings and a squeaky little >voice, > >You don't mean like that wretched fairy in Legend of Xelda: Ocarina of >Time? >I HATE that little pest! Always shouting, "Hey! Hey! Hey!" Arrrgghhh! Now >I'm having a "Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids" flashback! > >«twitch twitch writhe» > >Better now that I've chewed off my leg. *laughs* ^_^ well, sort of like Navi, but a little more... rather, LESS annoying. (I suppose you liked Tatl far more if you played Majora's Mask. As she did was jingle like an angry dinner bell) > >Speaking of Relievers, can an Imp Redeem or a Reliever Fall? Or are they >too >puny to survive the transition? > >And is it possible to redeem right out of Heaven of will the Divine Light >(tm) blast you to smithereens? The latter I should think, not having a >Vessel as a shield. You know, I wondered the same thing from time to time. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 22:53:24 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on From: "Rolland Therrien" > > THAT is how a Calabim should be describted. A monstrous being of smoke and > fire, a living embodiment of destruction. Where the Ofanim is fire in > motion, the Calabim is fire as weapon. I see Calabim differently than that, as well. Where Ofanim look almost like unto a sun, due to the rings of fire that make up their celestial forms, Calabim are like collapsed stars, whose discords manifest as cracks in their surfaces - the frantic motion that was once their nature subsumed into an unnatural stillness. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 04:15:20 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on >I see Calabim differently than that, as well. Where Ofanim look almost like >unto a sun, due to the rings of fire that make up their celestial forms, >Calabim are like collapsed stars, whose discords manifest as cracks in >their >surfaces - the frantic motion that was once their nature subsumed into an >unnatural stillness. Honestly, I see all Choirs and Bands as a little different. I usually take the base desciption and let it be altered by personality, and Word. For instance, a Calabite of Fire may look like the Balrog (and in fact I immediately thought of that when I saw the demon in the movie) while a Calabite of Gluttony may manifest several large mouths and sharp teeth. A Seraph of Trade may have gold plated scales and six blood-ruby eyes, while a Seraph of the Sword would have bladed wings. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 02:11:18 -0400 From: "Jeffery Watkins" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on "Remember the Balrog? THAT is how a Calabim should be describted. A monstrous being of smoke and fire, a living embodiment of destruction. The degrees of fire and smoke would change from Word to Word, of course. Calabim Thieves would be more Smoke then Fire, Calabim of Fire would be more Fire then Smoke, and so on." That is an incredible descirption and soooo perfect! Thank you, I definitely will change mine..since my game is so non-canon anyway and I tend to use IN Anime descriptions. I'll probably see the answer to my next question down the row of emails, but mind giving an example of the major Princes/Words? With gratitude, Jeff =) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:35:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on At 11:41 PM +0000 8/31/02, Sirea Theyal wrote: >Well, since the list seems a little dead today, (Everyone's at Gencon UK or Worldcon, probably, who usually shows up on weekends. Me, I don't usually show up on weekends. O:>) >How do you all see certain things in your game world, such as relievers, >Forces, etc? Oh, lessee... IMC, a reliever who's still "undecided" what it wants to be when it grows up looks like... a little gold humanoid with butterfly wings. The more they lean toward a Choir, the more like that Choir they look (but, since this is Heaven, they are always recognizable as relievers and not, say, itty-bitty Seraphim; the Itty Bitty Seraphim are, instead soemthing else totally non-canonical which is in the INC). In some of my fic, there's a pre-Malakite 7-Force reliever who looks like a child-sized "normal" reliever with the big butterfly wings and gold body, except he's very serious looking and his wings have black-on-black patterns on them. Some pre-Seraphim look like little butterfly-winged snakes with extra eyes. The pre-Cherub looked a bit like Patrick the Wolf-boy, but with the flutterwings. I'd imagine a pre-Elohite would have wings thinning into transparency, and not use them to fly, while a pre-Mercurian would get white on opal ones. A pre-Ofanite probably just goes veryfastandgetsflamelikegofasterstripes. O:> A pre-Kyrio... I'd probably figure they were looking a bit vague, indistinct, warpley- winged? Might act a bit distractable. Their Archangel might affect, too -- Lightnings, for instance, have fractal designs on their wings. For that matter, it might affect some of the fledged angels -- you probably find a lot of blues and silvers in the scale-patterns of Seraphim. The size of a reliever depends on its Forces -- a 3-Force one can sit in your hand. A 4-5 Force one can sit on your shoulder. Around 6 Forces, they start looking just a bit like 'putti' (another word, I believe, for those little diapered 'cherubs'), and at 7 and 8, they're more like a 7-8 year old kid. All totally IMC. Forces, I tend to think of as whispy, glowy-if-you're-a-Superior bands or skeins -- all strandy, and you can wrap them around and do knots and stuff. But the Superior generally has to be looking to see them under the regular appearance. Also IMC, Numinous Corpus (Wings) for Malakim.... shows big black wings. This can make it difficult for them to wave their wings at people to prove their angelicness, since some stories suggest that black feathers belong to _Fallen_ angels. Cf CLAMP's newer translated manga, WISH, or IIRC Holly Lisle et al.'s amusement-park Hell series. At 8:40 PM -0400 8/31/02, BC Petery wrote: *PSST! Turn off 8-bit! The <<>> on the twitch-twitch weren't 7-bit ascii, and came through weird.* >Speaking of Relievers, can an Imp Redeem or a Reliever Fall? Or are they too >puny to survive the transition? Nothing to say it doesn't work in canon that I recall. Mind, relievers tend to be protected by other angels, so it's unlikely for that to happen, and imps and gremlins are generally too steeped in "nasty" (and too little to be let out on their own to encounter angels anyway) to think about it -- but it's not _impossible_. >And is it possible to redeem right out of Heaven of will the Divine Light >(tm) blast you to smithereens? The latter I should think, not having a >Vessel as a shield. Nope, the former. Tethers are concentrated Light of Heaven, and fry you faster than the real thing (like sunlight, and sunlight focused through a lens). Also, Archangels tend to be able to protect redeemable demons for a little while. Indeed, IMC, this is how redemption _happens_ -- it's possible to do it on Earth, but it's much, much, MUCH easier to do it in the celestial realm, at least for the endpoint. You can start by simply unfolding the Forces a little and trying to scrub the dark bits out or make a few extra knots to hold the good ones together (much easier if you can go celestial for this), but finish up in Heaven, trying to hold the candidate together, maybe trying to slap a few extra Forces on if they seem to be flaking off too quickly, and generally playing "Lens of the Light of Heaven"... Tethers work too, of course. O:> [And in the Superior Soap Opera, much of it is kicked off by the Self- Redeeming Lilim who climbs a Tether and goes Bright at the top without actually losing any Forces (quite). O;> But talk about IMC there!] - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 17:52:58 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Asmodeus, he's so crafty http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/3975748.htm State Sponsored Satanism receives a blow - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Discutez en ligne avec vos amis ! http://messenger.msn.fr ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:37:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ong, Harvey" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on >Seen Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring? >Remember the Balrog? >THAT is how a Calabim should be describted. A monstrous being of smoke >and >fire, a living embodiment of destruction. Where the Ofanim is fire in >motion, the Calabim is fire as weapon. Actually, that does make more sense than the canon Calabite description. I can just imagine Haagenti as a Balrog with a belly full of whatever it is he's recently eaten. ===== "A good author can make the mind imagine." "A great author can make the mind believe." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 16:48:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ong, Harvey" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on Andrealphus-ever seen "Angel Of Darkness"? I've always seen him as that monstrous tentacled plant from that. Kronos-Gendo Ikari from Evangelion. Laurence-If you've played Baldur's Gate as a lawful good paladin, you'll immediately see the potential resemblance. Michael-Terry Bogard from King of Fighters. Which would make Baal Geese Howard. Is it obvious I'm an anime fanatic?! ===== "A good author can make the mind imagine." "A great author can make the mind believe." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 00:00:04 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on Hmm... I always saw Kronos as looking like Dhaos from the Tales of Phantasia game. Long hair, fluttery robes, nasty disposition. Just give him the Book and a pen, and he's all set! _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:11:47 +0000 From: "Sirea Theyal" Subject: Re: IN>Something to chew on Despite Canon description, how have you all subtly interpreted the Choirs and Bands? **MY CHOIRS** Seraphim: Pretty much Canon. I usually depict them as having two wings, but Masters of a Word will have four, while the Archangels have six. And they either come in scaled or feathery variety, altered by Word. And the wings are a lot bigger. Cherubim: Again, not much to change. Superiors can be more liberal with appearance, and not have it as animal like however. Ofanim: Big old happy whirlwinds of pure flame, which is altered by Word more than most Choirs. When they go really fast, they look like spinning wheels, as the name implies. Elohim: Pretty much Canon, as bright humanoids of light, with totally genderless bodies and voices, again altered a bit by Word or preference. Malakim: Tall, angry, ebony statues with their signature wings of black feathers, and long hair. Bright Lilim: Blue skinned versions of their Band with bright wings that is altered by Word and preference. Kyriotates: Swirling clouds of faint light with a soft multi-part voice and the occasional ghostly limb swirling in and out of the cloud. Another Choir heavily changed by Word and personal preference. Pretty much like Canon. Mercurian: Well, not much that can be said, huh? Just winged humans, with an aura of soft light around them, with looks and aura altered by Word. And the trademark golden halo. Grigori: Really super tall (minimum 8 feet, maximum 14) humanoids with bright golden skin, large eyes and slightly odd looking, but attractive bodies. Grigori Superiors can be as tall as a -mountain- IMG. Relievers: Their size depends on their Forces, but they look like balls of light with two bright butterfly wings of light. They are very affected by Word and potential Choir. **MY BANDS** Balseraphim: (Yes, I know it's Balseraphs, but I like Balseraphim more) These guys are just like their heavenly counterparts. Large angry snakes with leathery skin, and a haughty disposition. Unlike Canon though, my Balseraphim have feathered wings, but their black and slick with "grease". Some rare few have leathery wings, and again, Barons have four, and Superiors have six. Djinn: Much like Cherubim. Nasty, angry, rotted animals with two large leather wings. Some Superiors have changed the animal part though. (My Mariel appeared as a huge cloud of boiling gray light, with two long gossamer wings stretched out from her "sides"). Calabim: These guys are a varied lot. They can appear as any kind of nasty demonic creature, but I go for the Balrog template myself, with the flame part being altered heavily by Word served. Most are humanoid in appearance, or at least bipedal. Habbalah: A lot like Canon. Horribly cut up and pierced humans, with tattoos and lots of scars. They often have one or more of their eyes torn out, and are just plain ugly. Being subjective, these guys are heavily altered by Word. Habbalah of Fire look like burn victims. Honorium: Not Canon, but they look like Malakim, except they're clear, and in their chests is a ball of bloody fire which comes out of their backs and makes up bloody flame-feathers. There hair is always long and matted. Lilim: Exactly the same as Canon. Green ladies with horns and Geas tattooed to their bodies. Happy happy Lilim. Shedim: This is where I get a little odd. I can't decide if I want to depict them as yellow clouds of corruptive smog, or as slimy black piles with hideous eyes and limbs on them. Well, I like both actually, so I'll make it a split breed! Shedim are again affected heavily by their served Word. Impudite: Like the Mercurians, they just look like a human with two leather wings and either horns or a halo of black light. Again affected heavily by their served Word, and preference. Skulkers: These guys look like incredibly thin and very tall humanoids with gigantic, wide eyes, and they look transparent. Look at the Terror card from Magic the Gathering for an idea of how they look. Gremlin: Small angry humanoid creatures that may or may not fledge. Very varied in appearance. Imp: A small ball of black light with two metallic wings. Again affected by Word served and potential Band they will fledge into. Like an evil version of a Reliever. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2760 ********************************