in_nomine-digest Friday, May 3 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2621 In this digest: Re: IN> Novalis, Queen of the May Re: IN> Invocation (was: Zapan, Demon Prince of Ice) Re: IN> Sorcery, Angels and the Edict Re: IN> Sorcerous Saints.. RE: IN> Having only 3 kinds of Undead is sort of sparse, no? Re: IN> The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> Sorcery, Angels and the Edict Re: IN> Having only 3 kinds of Undead is sort of sparse, no? Re: IN> Novalis, Queen of the May RE: IN> The Demon of Pain (Lust) IN> [ADMIN] A reminder -- turn off 8bit ascii! Re: IN> Sorcerous Saints.. Re: IN> [Novalis] The Song of Scolding Re: IN> [Novalis] The Song of Scolding IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists IN> Month of Mayflowers: an artifact Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive,and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism IN> The Demon of Pain (The Game) IN> Vapula is so proud. Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Re: IN> Month of Mayflowers: an artifact Re: IN> The Demon of Pain (The Game) IN> The Songs of Blooming IN> Squeakers, Reliever of Flowers IN> Demon of Pain - in the Ass IN> Angel of Euphemism Re: IN> Demon of Pain - in the Ass Re: IN> Squeakers, Reliever of Flowers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:46:33 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Novalis, Queen of the May >>and Chewing. > >She never nibbles or gnaws anything she's not supposed to, or much of >anything at all. The *teachers* love her too. > >Of course, such un-hamsterish behavior would arouse the suspicions of any >demons whose Roles happen to end up at that school... but poor Squeakers >*isn't* very bright... "Damian! You get away from Squeakers right now and sit down in the corner like I told you! You've caused enough trouble for one day!" "Awwh... stupid hamster... isn't even real... are you, you little furball..." ::Calabite resonance:: "SQUEEAK!" Hmm.. well that would explain the name. Josh (No hamsters, angels, or relievers were harmed in the making of this post.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 18:54:17 +0000 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Invocation (was: Zapan, Demon Prince of Ice) - ---------- >Hrm. Am I doing this wrong? I always assumed invocation modifiers were >reference objects... As in, you get the modifer for >or >for something similar to . That's about right -- and/or standard, "known" things with invocation bonuses. Guides to the GM for non-standard thing, as well as a list of standard things for when the PCs can't think of anything. O:> I think this is elucidated a bit better in GIN. - ------------- Here's a thought: Why bother having invocation of your Superior when you can just flee Earth at any time? In the original game (or at least 3rd ed of it), Celestial form doesn't exist and you can't retreat back to your Plane of Origin. Thus, when you're in deep crap, you summon avatar of your Archangel or DemonPrince, who is exceedingly powerful, but also quite capable of being killed (unlike the Superiors in the American remake). The most problematic elements of the American game have been (IMCs) : * Superiors are effectively Minor Gods when they appear on Earth. The only way to stop them is to summon your own Superior. * (N)PCs just flee to their Hearts if they're getting the snot kicked ouut of them. Soul death is hardly a threat, survival is hardly ever an issue. (Political survival is another matter). It is for these reasons that I believe that my next game will be played ala Eden Ban, with Tethers being the only points of entry/exit between Earth and the Celestial planes. Angels appearing and granting visions and then disappearing is probably best left to the Songs of Projection anyway. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ Envoyez et recevez des messages Hotmail sur votre p鲩ph鲩que mobile : http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 20:12:19 +0000 From: "cassandra benner" Subject: Re: IN> Sorcery, Angels and the Edict > > > >Not all sorcerers who achieve their fate agree to the edicts, and are >sworn > >by several angels to never practice their Arts in heaven. > >You mean Destiny, right? DOH sorry, my bad. *hangs head in shame* >Hmm... that would make for an interesting plot seed though... > >Sorcerer... convinced of the Cacophony until he dies and see Hell... >realizes the Truth of the Symphony... wants to use his powers to find a way >out and Redeem? "a monster i am lest a monster i become..." Im sure Hatiphas wants to kill all the Seven Fold Pathers. Coures, ive yet to write up a bit more... Cas *Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.* In Nomine @ http://www.angelfire.com/goth/psyber/i-n.html In Nomine yahoo @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/inveritas ADnD forum @ http://www.drunkendwarfinn.co.uk ADnD stuff @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ADandD_Stuff _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:03:22 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Sorcerous Saints.. At 4:15 PM -0400 5/1/02, Steven E. Ehrbar wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >>And since white sorcerers are rare, and white sorcerers who knowingly >>work for Heaven are practically unheard of, a Saintly sorcerer would be >>sort of like the Last Unicorn... Zombified or not. > >Some sorcerers achieving Heaven is canon; that Saints qualify to use sorcery is canon; and that there are no Saints known to use sorcery is canon. The answer, of course, is that all Sorcerers who have achieved Heaven so far immediately climbed Jacob's Ladder. On the contrary -- it may simply be that Laurence or Dominic throws eternal paperwork at any sorcerer who desires to return to Earth as a Saint. Therefore the most likely way for a Saint to become a sorcerer is to initiate during the "second go-round." Since that requires finding a sorcerer or at least an initiation text, verifying that it doesn't have an infernal taint (I don't think they let dummies back to Earth much), and then learning rituals -- all, mind you, while avoiding mentioning this to any angels who would pitch a fit about it... It's a bit difficult. >I'm still _sure_ Michael wishes he had some . . . and if anybody has one, he >does. Probably in deep cover on Earth. Noooooo comment. O:> >Hmm. What would happen if you used a Summon ritual in the Celestial or >Ethereal planes? Depends on the Summon ritual in quesion, and if it's designed for multi- planar use or corporeal only. Jordi will object if it requires animal sacrifice, for instance. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor RPG links; Random name list, Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 00:50:06 -0400 From: "Bergeron, Robert F., DS1(SW)" Subject: RE: IN> Having only 3 kinds of Undead is sort of sparse, no? - -----Original Message----- From: Maurice Lane [mailto:moelane_1999@yahoo.com] There's also the serendipitous effect that the existence of Zombies tends to encourage celestials to avoid leaving discarded Vessels around. Nobody likes having to explain to Dominic or Asmodeus about just why their old bodies have been seen walking around... ===== This is a problem? Getting a Single Vessel is hard enough, I just don't see your average servitor having a problem with keeping track of his one. Or does the Sorcerer get it after putting an angel into Trauma? DS1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 15:44:38 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Specialists From: "EDG" > > Grieg wanted to be the Angel of Super-Spies, but Yves had > different ideas. It was nicely written, but I couldn't help laughing whenever I read the phrase "Super-Spies." Great backstory, even if I did have an inexplicable emotional reaction to one minor detail. ;:;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:47:02 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Sorcery, Angels and the Edict >>Hmm... that would make for an interesting plot seed though... >> >>Sorcerer... convinced of the Cacophony until he dies and see Hell... >>realizes the Truth of the Symphony... wants to use his powers to find a way >>out and Redeem? > >"a monster i am lest a monster i become..." >Im sure Hatiphas wants to kill all the Seven Fold Pathers. >Coures, ive yet to write up a bit more... Which brings up the idea of Hatiphas hunting down the best sorcerer's Hell has seen and hasn't had to soul kill, and beginning them on a force-bonding and ritual learning regimen. Hmm... What happens again when you strip infernal forces off of... say... a Shedite and you staple (CELESTIAL STAPLES! NEW AND IMPROVED!) them to a human soul? Josh (Back Cthulhu, back!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:49:58 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Having only 3 kinds of Undead is sort of sparse, no? ===== > >This is a problem? Getting a Single Vessel is hard enough, I just don't see >your average servitor having a problem with keeping track of his one. Or >does the Sorcerer get it after putting an angel into Trauma? > I think it'd have to be post-Traumatic Vessels. Would be a bit difficult to find them if there was only one angel at the scene of the death, it was the angel that lost the vessel, and said angel is currently staring at his Heart for a week or so. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:55:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Novalis, Queen of the May At 1:20 PM -0400 5/2/02, BC Petery wrote: >Roles: Class Hamster/3 (Little Miss Squeakers! She lives in your sneakers!) AIE! AIE! AIE! *ahem* emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:44:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> The Demon of Pain (Lust) At 11:35 PM -0600 5/1/02, Julian Mensch wrote: > I could see a much more effective Lustie of Pain, >on the other hand, using sex and seduction to break >hearts and destroy self-esteem. And then there's Zaza, who self-resonates and keeps encouraging people to hurt her _MORE_ please, MOREMOREMOREMORE, until they get a taste for it... (Okay, so the 'Latex Seraph' NPC in our games is the sort who'd find some way to drive Zaza out of her little Bal mind... But Terian has been campaigning to clean up 'kink' and get it out of the realm of Lust... Someday, she wants the Word of Sexual Openness.) - --Beth's SSO .sig: (Want to hear more about the Superior Soap Opera? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IN-SoapOpera ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:50:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] A reminder -- turn off 8bit ascii! Please, everyone, check your emailer to make sure you have _7bit_ ascii selected. 8bit uses strange characters which _are not_ the same from program to program. What you see as an o with a hat on it -- may come across as a question mark, a greek character, an "oe" symbol, or just an ugly blank square. 7bit to the list. It's in the listrules. - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 17:39:36 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Sorcerous Saints.. Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 4:15 PM -0400 5/1/02, Steven E. Ehrbar wrote: > >>Some sorcerers achieving Heaven is canon; that Saints qualify to use sorcery is canon; and that there are no Saints known to use sorcery is canon. The answer, of course, is that all Sorcerers who have achieved Heaven so far immediately climbed Jacob's Ladder. >> > >On the contrary -- it may simply be that Laurence or Dominic throws eternal >paperwork at any sorcerer who desires to return to Earth as a Saint. > Okay, then substitute "Bodhisattva" for "Saint". Since the CPG in general doesn't make such a distinction, I assumed that when the CPG said there were no Saints with sorcery that it was also including the Bodhisattvas. If it didn't, that makes the question of what happens when you use a Summoning ritual on the Celestial plane all the more important . . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:52:43 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] The Song of Scolding - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Unni Sol峦quot; To: Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:09 PM Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] The Song of Scolding > Yes, I see your point.:) If anyone wants to use it, they should come up > with their own takes on it. My original thought on this one was to keep > the Song of Scolding _exclusively_ for Novalis _herself_. But I suppose > she, being who she is, would have shared at least a little bit...:) Oh, *Novalis* can still succeed with it at will even if the Song requires resistance... Superiors have Essence to burn, they can get whatever degree of success they feel like if it's important enough to them. Non-Superiors just don't win vs. Superiors, period. As for the bit w/ Andre and the three days? Divine Intervention. *g* (Actually, given Andre's own Essence supply -- he's an *Impudite* Superior, fertheluvvapete, the only two who've got more are Vapula and Nybbas -- it would *take* Divine Intervention for Novalis to shut down his horniness for three days...) - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:54:26 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] The Song of Scolding - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Glasgow" To: Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] The Song of Scolding > Oh, *Novalis* can still succeed with it at will even if the Song requires > resistance... Superiors have Essence to burn, they can get whatever degree > of success they feel like if it's important enough to them. Forget to mention -- she also knows the Celestial Song of Charm, and can dump as Essence much into that as she feels like. If a Superior wants you to temporarily have a Will of 0, then you will. (Pun intended.) > Non-Superiors just don't win vs. Superiors, period. Like I said. *g* - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:55:49 -0600 From: "Wade Lahoda" Subject: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Just on the topic of how much time before an Angel can be expected to rise up in the ranks, gain a Word, etc... When I first started playing IN, I had played a LOT of Vampire before. In Vampire, Age = Power. So I started off assuming that of course, a 4000 year old Angel would wipe the floor with a newly fledged Angel. But I no longer think this is nessesarily true. Angels can learn incredibly fast when given the opprotunity - but they can also spend 2000 years standing guard in one spot and not even moving(although obviously not Ofanim for the last one ;)). I think often, an angel's age - and especially an angel's experience, and especially especially an Angel's experience on earth - will have a strong impact on how powerful they are, and how likely they are to be promoted. But I don't think it's nearly as strong a rule as in a game like Vampire, even as in real life. After all, aren't Angels often created as complete, fully mature beings? For that matter, there's nothing to stop Superiors from creating 18 Force Celestials, and imbuing them with knowledge that it'd take millenia to gain through experience. They don't, for various reasons... But the point is that age does not neccessarily equal competence(or youth == incompetence) for Celestials. It's even worse in Hell, of course...where there are a lot of very young *Princes*.... A. Wade Lahoda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:07:08 -0500 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wade Lahoda" To: Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 6:55 PM Subject: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists [snip] > But the point is that age does not neccessarily equal competence > (or youth == incompetence) for Celestials. As an example, the current Commander of the Hosts of Heaven is at most .00045 % as old as his oldest and arguably seniormost subordinate. (GMG timeline -- Laurence was fledged in 50 B.C., Michael is some timespan greater than 4.6 billion years by an indetermine amount old) > It's even worse in Hell, of course...where there are a lot > of very young *Princes*.... Nybbas is what, only 200 or 300? - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 20:25:43 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists > > >[snip] >> But the point is that age does not neccessarily equal competence >> (or youth == incompetence) for Celestials. > >As an example, the current Commander of the Hosts of Heaven is at most >.00045 % as old as his oldest and arguably seniormost subordinate. (GMG >timeline -- Laurence was fledged in 50 B.C., Michael is some timespan >greater than 4.6 billion years by an indetermine amount old) snip Yeah, but Michael had the position before him, and could probably, even Canonically, wipe, wax, and polish the floor with Laurence, if the former was ever moved to give the latter anything more than the occasional noogie. As for Nybbas: Two things to consider in that specialized case: A) Nybbas had access to a number of Word-forces no other mere Wordbound could comprehend. B) as mentioned before, only Vapula has an equal size reservoir of essence due to that little Impudite of Technology attunement... if Nybbas still has that. With that much potential power, Nybbas was either going to be granted a title and a crown by Lucifer, or was going to go and create his own Hell. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 10:32:39 +1000 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Month of Mayflowers: an artifact Even among allies, misunderstandings happen. So when a Creationer who doesn't *quite* understand how Novalis interprets her Word joins Flowers, he might just create something like this: THE VENUS DEMON(LING) TRAP "Bred" from Bell Blossoms, these artifacts are huge, with leaves starting at 3 feet long (for a level 1 Artifact) up to a massive 8' (for a level 6 artifact). A demon(ling) stepping on a leaf causes the leaf to curl, trapping the demon(ling) - unless it has more than 3 times as many Forces as the Artifact has levels. If the demon(ling) didn't freely step on the leaf they get a Will roll to resist the effect. Once trapped inside the leaf, the demon(ling) discovers that the leaf is a form of Discord Bracelet, granting 3 levels of Discord: one each of Selfless, Merciful & Claustrophobia....the demon(ling) can also detect that the leaf will immediately release him once he has (artifact level) levels of Selfless and Merciful - an important point to consider as the Claustrophobia *does* cause non-Ofanim dissonance.... Novalis is horrified by these artifacts: torturing a demonling towards redemption is *not* what Flowers is all about, so the handful of these that she possesses are kept in an incredibly secure greenhouse in her Glade in Heaven. The only reason that they're used is that Janus stole one many years ago, and gave seedlings to his Allies Michael and David: both Archangels think that these artifacts are wonderful - Michael tends to throw any demon(ling) he wants interrogated into them, while David tests demons for Redemption potential with them. Cost: Cannot normally be bought; however every 20 years a Venus demon(ling) Trap will form a seedpod - performing an Enchantment ceremony on the seed will create a new Trap with a level equal to the unmodified CD *if* the Enchanter pays a cost of 5 character points per level of the artifact. If the Enchanter doesn't have sufficient cps, the ceremony fails, destroying the seed. And no, it's not known what Novalis did with the Creationer who made the first one - and Michael & David keep asking, and offering to 'take him of her hands'. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 21:52:41 -0400 From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Josh Moger wrote: >As for Nybbas: Two things to consider in that specialized case: A) Nybbas >had access to a number of Word-forces no other mere Wordbound could >comprehend. > Except, of course, he had neither a Word nor a Princedom when he was catapulted to Prince of the Media by Lucifer. Lucifer could have handed the Word and the Princedom to anybody he chose, and the wordless servitor of Vapula named Nybbas would have had to just smile and nod if he didn't want the Lightbringer to annihilate him. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 21:11:45 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Time passes at the same rate for celestials as it does for humans, but that doesn't mean they _perceive_ time the same way. It's already established (or very strongly implied) in canon that celestials have a vast amount of patience compared to humans -- they can stand in one place for years, centuries, or even millenia, when a human (assuming he lived that long) would go insane from boredom. Even Ofanim, who cannot literally "stand in place," can do the same repetitive task over and over again without variation for eons. So age does not correspond to power for celestials. There's even a section on this (which I wrote :)) in the APG/IPG. A new PC can be recently fledged, or dating back to the Fall (like Marcus and Nicole). Some celestials are more "dynamic" and progress and change a great deal in a short time, others are more static and may remain unchanged for centuries. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:39:11 -0400 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive,and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists Except, of course, he had neither a Word nor a Princedom when he was catapulted to Prince of the Media by Lucifer. Lucifer could have handed the Word and the Princedom to anybody he chose, and the wordless servitor of Vapula named Nybbas would have had to just smile and nod if he didn't want the Lightbringer to annihilate him. Snip Point. Huh. Has there ever been a canon occurence of a demon spontaneously becoming Wordbound due to some major event or coincidence? Or would such things be expained away as 'Lucifer did it'? Josh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:53:41 -0700 From: "Phillip DesJardins" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of Specialists > Isn't forty years from fledging to Word-bound a very fast career? > (Suitable to a ophanite, of course.) > > Earl I'd certainly say so. An angel I wrote up (and may post here for the Novalis fest) is about 80 years old and still gets described as wet behind the wings. Phillip, Mercurian of Novalis The Happy Shiny Mercurian "The world needs a hug" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:10:25 -0800 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists I always had a theory that celestials time rate sense is sort of opposite of humans. When humans have nothing to keep them interested, they get bored and time drags by, but time flies when they are busy. With celestials, it's sort of the opposite. When planets and stars are forming over billions of years, the time passes fairly quickly. When life evolves and you have a fully formed living world to take care of, time slows down, as you must pay more attention to the little fiddly bits. I think of it as a sort of "practical time sense." When you are handling cosmic events, you operate on a cosmic time scale. For human events, you use a human scale. I thought of this when I saw the occasional comment about how "time was different back then" in various posts and articles. Reverend Brian - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Edelstein Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 21:11:45 -0500 > Time passes at the same rate for celestials as it does for humans, but > that doesn't mean they _perceive_ time the same way. It's already > established (or very strongly implied) in canon that celestials have a > vast amount of patience compared to humans -- they can stand in one > place for years, centuries, or even millenia, when a human (assuming he > lived that long) would go insane from boredom. > > Even Ofanim, who cannot literally "stand in place," can do the same > repetitive task over and over again without variation for eons. > > So age does not correspond to power for celestials. There's even a > section on this (which I wrote :)) in the APG/IPG. A new PC can be > recently fledged, or dating back to the Fall (like Marcus and Nicole). > Some celestials are more "dynamic" and progress and change a great deal > in a short time, others are more static and may remain unchanged for > centuries. > > -David > - -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 00:28:41 -0300 From: "vez o'rama" Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism >From: "Patrick None" >Subject: Re: IN> [Novalis] Angel of Euphemism >Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 06:03:33 -0400 >On a more related note, does the author think that the Angel of Euphemism >is on the loosing end of the Balseraph of Euphemism - you >know, the demon >who got burned way to often by his web of lies >collapsing, so started >getting *everyone* to talk *just like him*? :) Ok, here are some relevant thoughts: I was using 'Euphemism' to mean the process of substituting something inoffensive for something offensive. The trick to doing this without being deceptive, IMO, is to actually transform the Word/word. In other words, to use transformation as your substitution technique. This is the Way of the Angel of Euphemism. :) One infernal counterpart, IMO would be to twist the Word/word, rather than going to the effort of actually transforming it. Also, glossing it over... or concealing the true nature of the Word/word somehow but without actually transforming it (very important!). I would deem this guy the Demon of Euphemisms and make him a Balseraph, certainly (probably IST Nybbas, and currently with Disney). :) A more powerful infernal counterpart would probably be the antithesis of Euphemism... Dysphemism. Transforming an inoffensive Word/word into an offensive Word/word. This Demon of Dysphemism, would IMO most likely be a Shedite, and IST The War. :) And as for who's winning between Euphemism/Euphemisms, I'd say they have an interesting problem. Both have to be careful, lest they promote each other by mistake :) I'd give Euphemism the advantage here, though, because he actually tries to transform the Word/word, whereas the Demon of Euphemisms has a greater risk of planting the seeds for Euphemism when he confounds Words/words. Between Euphemism and Dysphemism... well, I think it's a stalemate, like the War. Hope that helps :) - - vez _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 00:01:00 -0400 From: EDG Subject: IN> The Demon of Pain (The Game) (3/20) 5k - -EDG Liang Habbalite of the Game Demon of Pain Corporeal Forces: 4 Strength: 12 Agility: 4 Ethereal Forces: 3 Intelligence: 6 Precision: 8 (bought up) Celestial Forces: 3 Will: 8 Perception: 6 (bought up) Suggested Word-Forces: 6 Skills: Artistry/3, Chemistry/3, Detect Lies/6, Emote/1, Escape/3, Fighting/6, Knowledge (Gather Information/4, Interrogation/4, Torture/4, Zen Koan/2), Languages (English/3), Large Weapon (Cane/4, Lash/4, Rod/4), Lockpicking/2, Lying/6, Medicine/6, Small Weapon (Knife/4, Razor/4) Songs: Shields (Celestial/6), Tongues (Corporeal/6, Celestial/6) Vessel: Large human male/6, ancient human male/6 Role: "Chen", Chief Dungeonmaster to the Imperial Roman Court/0/0 (was 6/6); "Cpt. Paul Trevelyan", United States Intelligence Extractor/6/4 Attunements: Habbalite of the Game, Dissonance Binding, Demon of Pain Rites: Bring pain to a single conscious person for a solid hour. Demon of Pain: As the Demon of Pain, Liang understands how much dissonance and Discord hurt - even other people's. With a glance, he can cause Body Hits to a demon equal to the amount of dissonance that demon has; Discord causes three times its level in Body Hits. The demon can resist with a Will roll; success means that Liang cannot use his attunement for CD hours. Liang can use this attunement (Word-Forces) times per day, but can only use it on any one demon once per day. Discord: Murderous/2 If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill the Buddha. Slowly. Liang has no truck with psychological torture, or spiritual torture - it's just not his style. Dripping water on someone's forehead might drive them insane, but it won't *hurt* - and hurting is what Liang is all about. The Demon of Pain has a firm belief in the effectiveness of torture in interrogations. In his opinion, if the subject doesn't leave bruised and bloody, you didn't get everything out of him, and that goes contrary to everything Liang believes in. Liang is one of Asmodeus's most prized internal agents. He dates back to several thousand years B.C., but didn't gain his Word until Imperial Rome; through three emperors he served as the master of the Imperial prison, bringing new definitions of pain to traitors, spies, and errant diplomats. With the fall of the Empire, Liang was reassigned, but has never let the "Chen, Imperial Prisonmaster" identity truly fall. Occasionally, he'll appear in the vicinity of Rome - usually after some particularly horrific disaster, in Italy or elsewhere - and start reminiscing about the "old days", quite vividly and using hand gestures to illustrate his point. Liang's one out-of-place skill is his knowledge of Zen koan; in fact, he finds them endlessly amusing. Having picked them up while working for the Chinese Imperial court, he enjoys perverting them to the disgust and discomfort of those he works around. They are his one concession to psychotorture, and used only when he's not allowed to flay the skin from an associate's flesh. The Demon of Pain, for all his reliance on pain and physical suffering, is a remarkably good information-gathering tool. His Discord, in fact, stems from the only time in recorded history that Liang failed to get a full confession out of a Renegade. Liang understands his master's reasoning for inflicting it; after all, who better could understand the proper application of damage? Still, Discord is unbecoming for a Word-bound demon of Asmodeus, and as soon as the Prince of the Game offers him another boon, Liang will be requesting its removal. Until then, he'll just keep doing what he loves best - using extreme harm and disfigurement in the interest of gathering information. (Liang is a moderately-powerful NPC who nevertheless can pose a considerable threat to the PCs - especially an Infernal party. The Demon of Pain can be used as an enforcer, a punishment, or simply as background in an especially vicious prison. Alternately, the PCs could encounter him in his "good old days" mode; if they manage to show enough interest in his stories, he'll be glad to share information with them. He won't necessarily tell them that he'll be reporting every question they ask as soon as the conversation is over, though.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:20:29 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Vapula is so proud. Love is truly the most selfish emotion. The target of the affection doesn't even have to be alive... * Silicon Pets, but the Pride Is Real http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/02/technology/circuits/02AIBO.html * Vapula is so proud. Pete, Demon of Bald Faced Lying http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 05:39:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> "Experience", time spent alive, and angel promotion... was The Angel of Specialists - --- Wade Lahoda wrote: > In Vampire, Age = Power. So I started off > assuming that of course, a 4000 year old Angel would wipe > the floor with a > newly fledged Angel. But I no longer think this is > nessesarily true. > Angels can learn incredibly fast when given the > opprotunity - but they can > also spend 2000 years standing guard in one spot and not > even moving While I was attending grad school in Virginia, my roommate said something on this subject that perfectly sums up the situation in IN; "Age is not a measure of how far you've traveled, only of how long you've been on the road." ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 05:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Month of Mayflowers: an artifact - --- james walker wrote: > THE VENUS DEMON(LING) TRAP Oh, yeah, I can see why Novy would hate these. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 05:50:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Pain (The Game) This is my favorite one so far. I can't wait to see what you come up with for Fate. ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 "In film, the director is God. In documentaries, God is the director." - -- Alfred Hitchcock __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 08:10:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: IN> The Songs of Blooming The Songs of Blooming give the player control over plants. Novalis frequently teaches them to faithful Servitors. Fleurity also knows and teaches these Songs. Each use of a Song of Blooming effects one plant or an area of grass (player's total Forces) feet across. Corporeal -- Accelerates the growth of plants. Unlike the Corporeal Song of Entropy, this Song will fast-grow a plant to its full natural size. The plant experiences (CD x 3) months of growth. Ethereal -- Plants effected by this Song gain limited animation. They can grasp with a Strength of (CD +3) or move with an Agility of 1. This effect lasts for one hour per point of Essence spent on the Song. Celestial -- One chosen property of the plant (medicinal value, intoxicating effect, thorniness, toxicity, etc.) is permanently intensified. The effect of this is determined by the CD; thorns and poisons do that much additional damage, each dose of a drug acts as that many additional doses, etc. These enhanced properties cannot be passed on to offspring (except perhaps when granted by Superiors). Essence Requirement: 1 Degree of Disturbance: 1 (2 for Celestial) Available: Fleurity, Novalis ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:31:20 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Squeakers, Reliever of Flowers Oops. Forgot the skills. Skills: Shred Newspaper/6, Emote (for acting all cute)/6 >From: Cameron McCurry >Running (Specialty: Wheel), Climbing and Chewing. - ----- >From: Michael Walton > ROACLMWO! Translation please? There's a Malakite nearby and I'm low on Essence, so I can't afford the Corporeal Song of Tongues. Wee! I'm a Rules Lawyer! Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:31:20 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Demon of Pain - in the Ass If there are going to be 20 "Demons of Pain" floating around The List we had better make sure we clearly identify the one we are writing about. Wee! I'm a Rules Lawyer! Pete, Demon of Misinformation http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/IN/pete.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:31:17 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Angel of Euphemism >Aretas works with a negative concept, creates the opportunity for Euphemism, >and then works to replace the negative concept with the Euphemism. Once the >Euphemism has a firm hold, he usually moves on. If the Euphemism can become >a new Divine word, it may be assumed by a petitioner at the discretion of >the Seraphim council So this is the guy who invented politically correct speech? Or does he have an arch-nemesis (Demon of Cussin', a Shedite drill-sergeant in the army of Baal)? OTOH, being imprecise in speech can lead to all sorts of confusion. I particularly like the phrase "Significant Other." It implies all sorts of things about both the speaker and the person being spoken of. Yours in Virtuality, BC Petery http://www15.brinkster.com/ugwump/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 12:21:19 -0400 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Pain - in the Ass At 11:31 AM 5/3/02 -0400, you wrote: >If there are going to be 20 "Demons of Pain" floating around The List we had >better make sure we clearly identify the one we are writing about. Which is why I put the Word for which each demon works in the subject line of the email, give the demon's Band and Superior in the statistics, and repeatedly mention their Prince throughout the descriptive text. I'd thought that that would be enough of an identifier. What can I do to make it clearer? - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Squeakers, Reliever of Flowers - --- BC Petery wrote: > > ROACLMWO! > > Translation please? There's a Malakite nearby and I'm low > on Essence, so I > can't afford the Corporeal Song of Tongues. Hmmm... to help a demon... what's a Cherub to do? Tell you what, you can owe me one. Just say so, and speak directly into the Bright Lilim over there. 0;> "Rolling On A Cloud Laughing My Wings Off" ===== Michael Walton, #US2002023848 If your principles don't inconvenience you from time to time, you don't really have any. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2621 ********************************