============ OGRE/GEV list, April 20th (Last: April 17th) ============= ===== Hovering Things. From: Scott R Pyle ===== Gunships & Gophers From: sdorr@ix.netcom.com (Scott David Orr) ===== Airing out the movement sequence. From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== Kill The Howitzer From: garth.getgen@genie.com ------------------------------ From: Scott R Pyle Subject: Hovering Things. Not sure who wrote the following, but he may have been thinking of the units I posted to the list a while back (or was that rec.games.miniatures.misc?) Oh well, I'll throw a few out again. >>>Going back thru some of the old posts, I found a few purposed "new" unit types -- all of them based on GEV technology: MSL-GEV: 3/4 D2 M3-2 HVY GEV: 3/2 D2 M3-2 "Cub" : 2/3 D2 M3-2 (need a new name for this one, I think) LGEV-PC: 1/2 D1 M3-2 carries ONE Infantry Squad I know there was a couple "GEV Howitzer" ideas out there, but I didn't run across them yet. I'm not sure I like that idea because of the Strike Range problem. Keep it to eight (8) hexes (16") and I'll be happy ... but you already have seven (7) hexes (14") with the MSL-GEV. But what I was looking for: in the back of my mind, I seem to recall an idea for a "Medimum Tank" -- was there such an idea purposed?? >>>> We have done both the Medium Tank (called the Fast Attack tank) and the GEV Mobile Howitzer for our Ogre Miniatures campaign. Here are their stats: Medium Tank (Att 3, Rng 4", Def 3, Mov 8", Carry 1 squad, 6 pts. GEV Mob Howitzer (Att 3, Rng 10", Def 2, Mv 4"/4"*, 10 pts.) * The GEV MH moves 4"/4" on turns in which it does not fire. Before the unit moves each turn, its commander must declare if it will fire or not. If it fires, it may move up to 2", then use its remaining 2" of move to "dig in," firing normally during the fire phase. On its secondary move phase, the GEV MH may elect to remain dug-in, or move. If it moves, it must spend its first 2" of mov digging out," then moving its remaining 2". We've used the units twice in scenarios, and on both occassions they drew so much fire from enemy commanders that they didn't last long enough to properly test them! We'll try again, but this may be one of the values of the unit, drawing enemy fire and away from less glamorous units. Still, it seems that at 8" per turn, the GEV MH has the potential to move quickly to engage its target, dig in, then bombard away. Incidentally, we'll be having all-out Ogre Miniatures at Three Rivers Gamefest in Pittsburgh on Memorial Day weekend. Come join us. Scott R. Pyle Assistant Cataloging Librarian Youngstown State University srpyle@cc.ysu.edu ----- [Yeah, Keyword searches in the archives aren't sufficient. I need to webify. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: sdorr@ix.netcom.com (Scott David Orr) Subject: Gunships & Gophers >From: grendel@mail.cdsnet.net > Well, I feel just slightly vindicated to see somebody else think >there is a place for helecopters in the OGRE universe. I really admire >the work that Garth has put into his thinking on this. When I >approached my friends with a couple of helecopter units for OGRE, I was >laughed right out of the room. If anyone is interested, this is what I >managed to come up with, but never really had a chance to playtest. > > Gunship: (cost 1 armor) Gopher: (VTOL Transport)(cost 1 armor) > Move 5/4, Att 1/2, D1 Move 4/3 Att 1(in overruns only), D1 > Carries 6 SPs of Inf > >Now, here is where my thinking is different. These units have an >"infantry" type defense in that a "D" result is treated as an "X". They >are unrestricted by terrain in movement (NOE flight), however, that >would be their only flight option on the battlefield. They would >receive the Road/Water bonus just as GEVs do. There was no ammo problem >for the Gunship (hey why not, Missle Tanks don't have this problem). >And finally, they are on the Cruise Missle chart as a GEV unit one hex >CLOSER to the explosion. Interesting. Maybe give them a road bonus over clear, too? (Or a penalty in other terrain.) Scott Orr ----- [I have a hard enough time justifying a road bonus for inf. If the infantry can fly, what exactly is it that roads help them do? How about letting infantry declare at the start of their movement that they're flying and therefore get the road bonus over any sort of terrain, (Crossing three hexes of water say), but they're subject to Cruise Missile style interception. (No bonuses or penalties to the roll, as they are smaller and more numerous yet slower) Hint: don't do this against laser towers! -HJC] ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Airing out the movement sequence. Grendel, nice, simple idea. Fairly workable, if a little light on reality. The main thing I wanted was something faster than a GEV (which is why I sat down and worked out the speed conversion chart) but then I ran into the strike range problem. I still think the three-phase movement fixes that and is still playable. As to the ammo problem, I figure that a MISSILE TANK fires more but smaller missiles -- whereas the chopper only has a few larger missiles that it fires singlely. I did come up with a question for my own rules purposal that I'm not sure how I want to answer: if the sequence is to move friendly ground units, then enemy air moves, then friendly air -- what happens if I move my tank under your helicopter?? Is that an "underrun" attack or do you get to move away instead??? Also, what if you move your chopper over my tank -- can you cause an overrun attack during MY movement phase??? I'm thinking that yes, I can underrun you and force you to fight at least one round, then you get to run away; and yes, you can overfly me and cause one round of overrun combat and leave both units of both sides in the same hex. But the problem with that is: what about MY choppers that might be able to move into the overrun hex?? So, I'm open to suggestions. (Yes, Mr. Jackson, I know your suggestion: Drop the whole idea of choppers. ) Stephen, I'm thinking about reworking my SEALS idea. Not too much, but dropping or changing the HWS ability somehow. I still like Herny's RANGER idea a lot, too. Greg, exactly how do you propose to "lop off a large amount of maneuverability"??? It "might" work with minitures, but the map scale on the paper version is 1500 meters per hex ... a lot of room to maneuver at any speed. And, as I said before, the problem with faster OGRES is their strike range. The >>ONLY<< way I could accept a "hover-Ogre" is if their speed factor is limited to M3-2 and they're no bigger than a MARK-II. Send E-mail to: GARTH.GETGEN@GENIE.COM >or< GARTH.GETGEN@WORLDNET.ATT.NET Garth L. Getgen SSgt USAF ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Kill The Howitzer A few people from the E-mail group are playtesting this scenario (thanks, guys!!) and after their first game one player commented he doesn't see how the defender can win. Here's part of what I replied: > If your playtest shows the GEV's to be too mobile for the > defense, my two suggestions would be change to 2 each GEV, > HEAVY TANK, L-GEV and LIGHT TANK; and change to 4 each > HEAVY and LIGHT TANKS for the attacker ... see if that > would balance things out some. Comments?? I know >>I<< have won as the defender, but that was a long time ago and I don't remember how I did it. It is tough, that I'm sure of. If the defender doesn't pick his position well, he'll get creamed. Also, one of the first times I played as the attacker, I do remember that I won by taking my last GEV and last L-GEV and overruning the disabled Howitzer on their second movement phase. (Actually, I should write a fiction story based on that game!) I think the problem the playtesters are running into is in all the times I played it, no one thought to try a "blitz" attack. If anyone else wants to try this out, here's a reprint of the scenario: Kill The Howitzer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ { by } {Garth L. Getgen} Setup: (1) Defender chooses which map to be used, GEV or SHOCKWAVE. (2) Attacker declares which map-edge (N/E/S/W) his forces will enter on. (3) Defender sets up ALL units anywhere on the map. (4) Attacker moves first, any or all units enter the map along the map-edge declared in step 2. (5) Play continues until one of the following: (A) All Attacking units are destroyed, in which case the Defender WINS. (B) The Attacker WINS by destroying (not just disabling) the Defender's Howitzer. (C) Either side concedes. There is no DRAW. (D) There is NO time limit (turn count) in this scenario. Units: (1) Attacker gets FOUR (4) GEVs and FOUR (4) Light GEVs. (NOTE: SEE SUGGESTED MODIFICATIONS ABOVE.) (2) Defenders gets ONE (1) HOWITZER (non-mobile), TWO (2) Light Tanks and NINE (9) squads of INFANTRY (standard type). (3) Neither side gets ANY reinforcements. (4) No unit may leave the map. Special Rules: None. All towns/bridges are intact. Optional Rules: Players may agree to declare bridges are down, etc. Victory Conditions: The objective is the HOWITZER -- NOTHING else matters. Once the HOWITZER is destroyed, the scenario ends with an Attacker's Victory; otherwise the Defender wins -- no matter what other loses there are on either side. {This is a suicide mission for the GEVs. The enemy has set up a Howitzer in a strategicly important area where it will be able to disrupt supply convoys, and the only forces available to deal with it before the next convoy passes is a GEV Recon-Team.} Send E-mail to: GARTH.GETGEN@GENIE.COM >or< GARTH.GETGEN@WORLDNET.ATT.NET ----- [Aren't GEVs a lot better at disrupting convoys? -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1997, by Steve Jackson Games.