============ OGRE/GEV list, March 12th (Last: March 7th) ============= ===== Re: OGRE/GEV, Mar 7th. From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ===== Hidden Movement From: garth.getgen@genie.com ===== Map making programs From: garth.getgen@genie.com From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) ------------------------------ From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: Re: OGRE/GEV, Mar 7th. >From: Eric Jome >hi! i am looking to complete a product list of all the >miniatures so far produced for the Ogre Miniatures rules. Richard Meaden and I are working on this and will soon post it - I had not thought to include stock numbers but yes, why not? fish says... > Oh, and did anyone see that Arcane (I think it was Arcane) survey, >where Ogre came in at about ninth most popular of all wargames. Not bad... wow. No, I missed that. What issue? (Fish, WRT your reality check notes - wish I had time to get involved in that but I *am* interested in the outcome...) More web page updates coming soon. > [Infantry can be killed by weapons that incapable of penetrating >vehicle armor. (See the OGRE's AP guns.) > > I suggest that they probally can't take anything like a direct Nuke >hit and simply hide behind a ridge or something. (Dirt, it does a >defensive position good.) Just like modern infantry will move in >spurts. > > So when you nuke infantry, you tag those few that are rushing >between cover (Reducing a 3/1 unit to a 2/1 say), but most of the time >the grunts practice "Duck and Cover". -HJC] All these things are true. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Hidden Movement Well, I think hidden movement does have a place in GEV/OGRE. In fact, I used it in a scenario already and it worked fairly well. Ok, so it wasn't hidden movement, just hidden deployment -- but it worked. Per scenario setup, I think Infantry (including Marines, Heavy Weapon Squads, Engineers, and Rangers) could be deployed in woods, swamps, and towns under concealment ... that is, they're not place on the map until they fire, move, end any movement phase adjacent to an enemy unit or are overrun. There should be a limit to how many squads can be deployed as such, per hex and in total. I'd say up to three squads per hex and no more than 1/4 of the total infantry force. The SEALS (or whatever special ops unit you want to call them) should be able to use hidden movement -- that's a big part of their training/mode of operation. The SNIPER team is a two-man unit -- if they can't hide in the woods, there's something wrong. Heck, if something as big as an OGRE can get enough ECM to get a -1 shift on the die roll (see NINJA), I would think a single man could get enough to hide completely!! By the way, the more I think about them, I really like your RANGERS idea. Faster movement, better defense and greater overrun attack -- it works in great and fits with the current description of RANGERS ... except the fact you missed one ability: paradrop behind enemy lines!! However, it made me go back and look at MARINES again ... they're too expensive, I think. If your RANGERS are 4 VP (2 INF), the same as HWS, which sounds about right; the MARINES should be 3 VP each (if that much). So they can fire while in the water ... big fat hairy deal. There's just not enough water on the map to make it worth buying them (which is why I use those counters as HWS!!). Perhaps we should give the MARINE another ability to make them worth buying. Triple overrun attack strength, too?? Garth L. Getgen P.S> One more item I keep forgetting to post -- a new unit: APC. Not to be confuse with the "Archaic armor" APC, this is a more modern vehicle based on the Light Tank frame, used before GEV were invented. It moves in terrain as per LT-TNK, Attack 1, Range 2 (4"), Defense 2, Movement 3 (6") and can carry three squads of infantry, two inside and one on top. Cost is the same as a LT-TNK (1/2 armor unit, 3 VP). Not the greatest unit on the map, but it fills a gap in the list. ----- [Your vehicle is fairly close to the Marines LAAV, why not drop the defense to one (thin skinned) and up the move to 8" with limited swim? "Starship trooper" pods pop up over the horizon, launched by a mass driver way behind the lines. As each pod clears the horizon it is engaged by a laser tower... -HJC] ------------------------------ From: garth.getgen@genie.com Subject: Map making programs The other night, I surfed the 'Web til 3AM (now that I'm back on the night shift, you don't expect me to go to bed too early, do you??) and I found a couple programs. One is Aide De Camp DEMO and the other is a Windows based knock-off called ASSIST. Frankly, I was disappointed in both. The ADC was only a crippleware demo, but I was underwhelmed by the graphical interface. The menu system was not very intuative, and the thing kept beeping at me with cryptic error messages. Apparently, I had activated a submenu and couldn't quite figure out how to get out. It's a DOS based program and looks fairly powerful, but without reading the manual (and possible getting the real version) I can't really say whether it's worth buying or not. Lot's of players swear by it. Me, I swore AT it last night. The ASSIST program was a bigger disappointment -- it's buggier than an ant farm. At first, I thought maybe I had another demo, but this is the full version (with two features deactivated: pay for the password to turn them on). First, it let me install to my G: drive under a GAMES directory, but then insisted on looking to the C: drive under the ASSIST directory for its data files. It let me type in the right directory, but limited the number of characters -- so I had to reinstall it. Next, it's actually a series of applications, not just a single does-all program. While this might be OK, I quickly noticed that none of them give back all the resources when closed (Micro$oft Word does the same thing) and I soon had to reboot Windows. At any rate, I played around with the map drawing sub-program for a couple hours and never did get it to put anything on the full map. I could change one hex in the draw mode, but it never moved that hex to the map nor let me start drawing a second hex. And I never got the unit-counter drawing to work right, for the computer kept running out of resources and crashing. And, no -- it's NOT my setup ... I can run WordPerfect and Lotus 123 at the same time plus download stuff in background with a DOS-based comm program all at the same time, so I know my machine works fine. ADC costs $79.95 and ASSIST is $30, if memory serves correct. At this point, I'm holding on to my money. Hopefully, someone out there can point me to a program that works. All I want is to draw maps, I don't care about placing units on the map for PBEM movement. Garth L. Getgen ----- From: sj@io.com (Steve Jackson) Subject: Map making programs I know of no others. Sigh. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.io.com/sjgames/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1997, by Steve Jackson Games.