============ OGREverse list, Apr 8th (Last: Mar 22nd) ============= ===== Ogre In Print? From: n4mrc ===== Under the Sea Scenario From: "William Spencer" ===== Infantry Assault GEV From: Chris Camfield ===== Airpower From: Mark Audley ===== Aide De Camp From: Mister McKnight ------------------------------ From: n4mrc Subject: Ogre In Print? Henry, Years ago my friends and I were big OGRE fans. I walked into a game store the other day and asked if they had the game. The clerk said he was out and his computer indicated that it was no longer in print. Is there a place where I can mail order the games? Perhaps from you? I would like to get my hands on a copy of OGRE and GEV. Are the original games still available? Please tell me what you can. Thanks in advance. Danny ----- [See: http://www.sjgames.com/catalog/ for a list of what they've got in print and http://www.sjgames.com/general/outofprint.html to attempt to find the out of print parts. This comes up often enough that I think I'll attempt to work it into the list FAQ. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "William Spencer" Subject: Under the Sea Scenario Nobody seemed to hate my last scenario, so here's another... UNDER THE SEA An OGRE Scenario by William Spencer Ahh, the Pacific Ocean is wonderful this time of year. The sun, the gentle waves, the dolphins frolicking in the cool water... Unfortunately, you're missing it all, because this tropical paradise is miles from land. You work all day, a mile beneath the ocean, building some top secret installation in special armor designed for the task. Well, the Combine just found out, and has sent a task force to destroy you. You've finally been briefed on what you're building: a prototype Ion Laser Cannon, so big it needs an ocean for cooling. The basic idea is that it sends a beam up to a specially-equipped ship which reflects the beam in the desired direction. It would make a devastating siege weapon, and help the Nihon immensely. The Combine wants it destroyed, of course. SETUP There are two forces: the Combine (attackers), and the Nihon (defenders). Each side gets equal forces: about 100 to 150 points worth. This battle takes place entirely underwater, but all units are considered waterproofed and "Marine" capable (like Marine infantry) for free. Each side may choose tanks or infantry, but no GEVs (hovercraft don't work underwater, for obvious reasons). Submarines may also be used; if you like Ogres, try the Continental Siege Submarine rules somewhere on the message boards. At least half of the Nihon's infantry must be Engineers, and they may buy lasers or artillery. Terrain should be pretty standard slopes and plains, with some coral (treat as rubble), seaweed forests (forests), and construction equipment/underwater cities (cities). Place one big building (about 50 SP) in the center. This is the ion cannon (still under construction). GOALS The Combine wins if they destroy the cannon, and decisively win if they kill most of the defenders. The Nihon wins if they either destroy the attackers, protecting the cannon, OR they fire the cannon: How to fire the cannon: move a unit into the cannon building. The unit spends two turns in the building (getting out of armor, and then entering the command codes)...at the end of the second turn, the ion cannon fires - anything above it (including a large part of the attacking Combine fleet on the surface) is vaporized (XX). It must then wait 5 turns (cooling down). Firing the cannon twice is a decisive victory (blasts most of the Combine fleet above to flinders). The cannon is disabled and can't fire if it loses half its SP. COMBAT Lasers get half range underwater. AP guns and missiles work normally. Other guns work like this: All units gain +1 to Defense value (shots are slowed by the water, easier to shoot down) All weapons ranges are halved (slowed by the water; sensors confused by movement of water) Spillover fire burst radius is doubled (concussion effect of the water) I've also posted this on the message boards. ----- [Yes, and you've gotten no response on the message boards. (http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/board/) Maybe the problem here is the organization. Perhaps one victi--- er moderator could filter out and post scenarios in a list with notes and then open discussion getting linked off of the scenarios. Kinda like the articles at IBM's Daily Grounds on Java. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Chris Camfield Subject: Infantry Assault GEV > [What would tempt you to give up a little speed? > > The GEV-PC is as fast as a train. If it's on water or a road, yes. But what I was specifically talking about is the fact that it's slower than the other GEVs. > In Raid, would you take a MIRV (GEV-PC loaded with heavy weapons) in >place of three GEVs? > > Maybe not, in GEV division is multiplication. For example consider >four LGEVs nuking a Heavy Tank, overruning a second one and then >scattering. > > They pay their pricetag right there and three survive to brave >retaliation. A pair of GEVs couldn't get away with this. Well, a regular GEV pair would have the same chance of nuking the first Heavy. But, as you say, the regulars couldn't get away with the overrun so cheaply. On the other hand, a *lone* LGEV can be overrun by a Heavy and there is nothing that the LGEV can do to prevent being destroyed. Not that that will happen unless space is restricted by terrain. Anyhow, I think the lotsa-small-units phenomenon is a problem. (It's "Fuzzy-Wuzzy" all over again!). Either there ought to be an associated "command cost" for every X units purchased, or cheaper units should be more expensive than they are now. That amounts to the same thing I guess. > Not that this would ever happen, every Heavy carries a squad of >Militia nowdays. I have mentioned how stupid I think this is, haven't I? I think it violates the spirit of the game. Then again, when I play, it's generally with the no units beyond the Reinforcement Pack... Chris Chris Camfield - ccamfield@cyberus.ca Big Rude Jake Fan Club President Visit the Big Rude Page at "http://www.bigrudejake.com"! "I've had dinner with the devil, and I know nice from right" (BRJ) ----- [Infantry makes every tank better. Why purchase a heavy or even a light and not put a squad on top? Even in the suits the grunts are only faster in really tough terrain where you wouldn't send the tank anyway. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Mark Audley Subject: Airpower In response to the Helicopter and Aircraft articles. While I think the self lighting, glass car park theory is very relevant in OGRE, consider the following with regards to aircraft and helicopters. If you are using tactical nuclear weapons then one of the side-effects is an Electo-magnetic Pulse (EMP). I am not an authority on EMP, however I believe that you can "Harden" buildings and armoured vehicles against EMP. Helicopters and aircraft, I believe cannot be "Hardened". The net result would be any attack on helicopters or aircraft would fry their electric's and send them plummeting to the ground. This having been said a friend and I am enjoying using the helicopter counters and rules. Regards Mark Audley (My first response in 2 or 3 years of lurking) ------ [Aircraft can be electronically shielded and radiation harden as well as any other vehicle of the same mass. It's just that airfoils have a bit of problem with sudden shockwaves. Now there are two cases here, either the aircraft is flying low enough to avoid most of the line-of-sight effects or it can be flying high enough to recover its flight path before impacting the ground. (The USAF used to think that using small air bursts would be a great way to deal with massed formations of bombers, especially if the intercept could be made over Canada. ;-) -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Mister McKnight Subject: Aide De Camp Has anyone heard/used/tried the ADC2 on Ogre? Looks like a good way to "port" the game to the PC and then use it for pbem games. But then you also can use it to playtest new units and make new maps with different surfaces or even increase the number of players by adding a new set of units with a different color. Cool, no? ----- [Yes, see: http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/1997/gevfeb01.txt (Brought to you by the magic of grep. Yes, I need an online index) DEFENDING THE RECTANGLES: Mr Camfield posted a comment about da formula to the boards while I was trapped in Stygian Plains, NY. He doesn't like the simpilicity of my two rectangles. Da formula gives the combat value (not the production cost per se, but competitive pressures would tend to make these converge, t'cha?) as the sum of the area of two rectangles. The first has a base of the first phase move plus the attack range times a height of the attack strength and the second has a base of the attack range plus the second phase move times a height of the defense strength. There are two extremes here, a unit with no movement lacks tactical flexibility but can afford considerable range. (c.f. Laser Towers and Howitzers) and a unit with large move factors can't afford much range or armor. (The GEV) Here's a little table to mull over. From GEV, the highest defense strength for a given "retreat reach" (range plus second phase move in the clear) RR Defense Unit 8 1 Hwtzr 6 2 MWTZ 5 2 GEV 4 2 Missile Tank 2 3 Heavy Tank Is the GEV worth twice as much as the Light Tank, simply because it moves more? OGRE WATCH: In "Tales of the White Wolf", Elric of Melnibone wagers that there is no fate worse than being the slave of a merciless weapon and loses. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1998, by Steve Jackson Games.