============ OGREverse list, Aug 30th (Last: Aug 27th) ============= ===== Towed Artillery in Ogre From: "Andrew Walters" ===== Ogre "Minis" Tournament at ConQuest in San Francisco From: "Andrew Walters" ===== Ogre Missle Tactics Essay From: "Andrew Walters" ===== Release the game. From: largecardriver5@webtv.net (edward markle) ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Towed Artillery in Ogre >Do towed artillery exist in Ogre? If they seem too vulnerable, how about >a gun trailer that could be towed by a tank - reduces movement speed, >but gives an extra gun (stats made up off the top of my head: D1, A2/6, >reduces towing vehicle's move by 2") I remember the Mobile CP in Ogre >was described as a command trailer - how about that? How many points or armor units would the gun trailer be worth? My more-or-less-arbitrary opinion: combat in the OGREverse is *way* to fast for towed weapons to be anything but stationary weapons. HWZs get disassembled and trucked between positions. Ogre Minis has Field Artillery under Archaic Armor at the board equivelent of 2/4 D1 M0 for 3 points, ie half an armor unit. I think I'd take one missle tank over two Archaic Field Artillery under if I needed the range, and I'd certainly take one Light Tank over the towed piece if I didn't need the range. D0 and D1 units either don't last long or require planning and protecting, which is frankly a lot of work. So while I wouldn't choose it you could make an interesting scenario where it was required. A lot of them coud be interesting to assault. ----- [What is the procedure for moving a Howitzer? My least favorite thing about the Light Howitzer is that it's not less filling than the regular Howitzer. If it was size factor three then it would fit into a small revetment. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Ogre "Minis" Tournament at ConQuest in San Francisco It won't be in the program (its in the addendum thing) and you can't sign up 'til Sunday evening because like an idiot I missed the deadling, but if anyone's going to be there please stop by and say, "hi," and check out what I'm using for miniatures. We'll have two tables running Monday morning at 9:00 AM, and SJ Games has provided some prizes, including something very unique... Thanks Monica! PS: If anyone would like to play Ogre with me who won't be there on Monday email me and we'll see if we can set up a time. Andrew Walters andreww@farallon.com ----- [The URL is http://www.con-quest.com/ (Sep 4th-7th) I'll ask my boss if I can get a few hours off. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Ogre Missle Tactics Essay The Ogres missles give both players some tough choices, like lots of things in Ogre. If you read the strategy articles on the Ogre page at you'll see Ogre and Defense advice that is almost, but not quite contradictory. I think the tradeoffs are so interesting I wanted to bring it up on the list, and I'll start with my ideas. First of all, I take a totally different tack with Mark IIIs and Mark Vs... Mark III: The first question is whether or not your opponent is the type that shoots at missles. If he is, fire them at the first target you can. If he's set up poorly so that only a few armor units can get at you for the first turn or two, losing two more is really going to hurt. Take advantage of their range by taking out a unit you might not normally get a shot at, a GEV, or a HVY that's "in the slot". If your opponent is not inclined to fire at missles, save them, at least at first. They are ideal for taking out howitzers, obviously, but even more important they shorten the game by two critical turns, assuming that your at M2 and minus your main battery by the time you get to the far end of the board. Your opponent will thus have to target them later in the game, when he has fewer units, and when he desperately needs those tread attacks. If you don't know whether your opponent fires at missles or not, there's a meta-game gambit that can counterbalance this. Save your missles. If he doesn't fire at them, save them for the endgame. If he starts shooting at them and misses, fire them at armor units the next turns. If he takes them both out shake your head and say, "you're not going to slow me down in time..." The first couple of turns as the defense are scary; make the most of it. Defending Against A Mark III: Ignore the missles, take your lumps if it fires them. You'll probably only lose one unit, and it would take six unit-attacks to get rid of both of them. Kill the main, and then hit the treads until the Ogre is at M2. You should get it down to M2 early enough that you can evaluate whether to kill the missles or go for M1 next. If you don't get it down to M2 before it hits the last third of the board, its all over anyway, missles or not. If you've got the Ogre down to M2 and it has to go under a HWZ to get to the CP, focus everything on the missles and let the HWZs (you do have more than one, don't you?) do the rest. Otherwise I would go after M1 first, then hit the missles. The missles extend the Ogre's range from two to five (I'm assuming you're not wasting attacks on the secondaries), but M2 increases the Ogre's range by one *per* *turn*. You have to kill the treads eventually anyway, or it won't matter what weapons are left. So go for M1 first, then count the hexes and the tread units. You're fifteen tread units away from a win, and since each tread attack has a one third chance of success and success is subtracting the attack's strenght from remaining treads, can you bring forty five attack points to bear before it gets to five hexes range from the CP? A Two to-One attack has a fifty-fifty chance of taking out an Ogre weapon, whereas two One-to-Ones have a 56% of destroying it, with an 11% chance of hitting two things (44% NE, 44% NE/X, 11% X/X!). So stick with One-to-Ones. Probabalistically, you need three to kill a missle, *six* to get two. Those same six three-point attacks would take out six tread points (probabalistically), but they buy you three turns, since they shorten the Ogres destrucive range from give hexes to two (you've killed the Main Battery or you're in deep trouble), and that buys you three turns (the Ogre is at M1, or again, you're in deep trouble). Actually, you probably only have six armor units left, if you're lucky, so six attacks to kill the missles is going to take you a whole turn, so this only buys you two turns. So do that if you need the two turns, but there's one other factor to consider before ignoring them if you think you can get to M0 before five hexes of range. Do you have only four or five armor units? You're not targetting the APs, I hope, so you Infantry has probably been whittled to nothing, or one platoon. What would happen if the Ogre fired those missles at armor units, possibly combining this with a reverse charge to apply the secondaries to the armor as well? Sound like a dumb thing to do at M1? It doesn't matter how slow the Ogre is if there are no defenders left. If he can get you down to two GEVs they would require ten or eleven turns to wear the Ogre down from 14 tread units to zero. Two Infantry platoons could shorten this to nine turns (they don't survive like GEVs), but the Ogre probably is not that far away from secondary range. So if your remaining defense is fragile this way, you might kill the missles to make sure the tactical situation doesn't change to suddenly. Mark V: This situation is different because you have a lot more missles. On a Mark III the amount of firepower required to take out all the missles is 60% the firepower required to reduce movement by one. On a Mark V it takes 90%. While the defense has increased 80% in armor and 50% in infantry, the Main Batteries are up 100% and the missles are up 200%! (I hate % terminology, up 200% = tripled?) So the game is very different. The missles range and strength combined with quantity can create *very* sudden changes in the tactical situation when the missles are used all at once. If the defense is GEV-heavy you can eliminate one third of the defenders in a turn, and your opponenet will suddenly be placed outside of his original plans. You can also move to one side of the board and clear it out with missles and guns, giving yourself a turn of breathing space as the defenders run to catch up with you. With eighteen armor units available the Defender is more likely to splurge on two, three, or four howitzers. I would save the missles for these, but if your opponent starts shooting at them (a clever move to maximize on his investment in the HWZs) you should try to eliminate some armor with them. Probably the best thing about the Mark V is that you can fire two or three of the missles and take out an armor unit or two, and make your opponent think you're going to use them up, and with relief he decides he won't have to worry about them in the endgame. But then you save the other three and when you're down to M1 they give you the equivelent of three extra turns of movement. But then, they only take half as much work to eliminate. Defending Against A Mark V: All the statistics above are the bad news. The good news is that your real enemy is tread points, and tread points are only up 33%. But then, the worse news is that the map is 0% longer. So I still say kill the Mains, take your lumps from the missles, get behind the Ogre and shoot the treads. It takes as much firepower to eliminate all the missles as to take out eighteen point, and you *must* shoot all the tread points to survive. The missles are likely going to take out five armor units, but maybe less. The only time I'd start shooting at a Mark V's missles is if it had just one or two and was about to enter missle range. Do a range-time calculation considering one missle to be as tough to destroy as three tread points, but remember its only destroying the *last* missle that shortens the Ogre's range from five to two. I'm hoping all this will generate some discussion, and I look forward to seeing it. Andrew Walters andreww@farallon.com ----- [The difference between shooting at a missile and having the missile shot at you is that the whole Ogre needs to move over to a good spot to fire that missile. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: largecardriver5@webtv.net (edward markle) Subject: Release the game. Yep I'd like to see the rerelease of the differant games so I could get the maps and counters............................................ Needless to say I'd buy several copies to make sure I don't ever run out of counters or maps........................................Reason being SJG will most likely let it go out of print once the feeding frenzie of it's release dies down. Ed Markle ----- [It looks like I'll be on a forced vacation here for a while until IO.com sorts out TCLSH support. This only affects my ability to broadcast stuff so feel free to write. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1998, by Steve Jackson Games.