============ OGREverse list, July 5th (Last: June 30th) ============= ===== Looking for OGRE reprints. From: largecardriver5@webtv.net (edward markle) ===== Ogres in Role-Playing Games From: Matthew Goldman From: "Pat O'Hara" ===== Forward Observers From: Chris Camfield From: "Tulloh, Daniel W." ------------------------------ From: largecardriver5@webtv.net (edward markle) Subject: Looking for OGRE reprints. Hi, Thought I'd get "On Your List". Usually I'm in a way trying to stay off them. Any chance of a reprint of the old reinforcements pack ? I have a copy of it and Shockwave. It's okay but I'd prefer a REAL one. In Steves Fencer scenerio would you know if he's using the old design with 4 secoundaires ? Thank You, in advance. Ed P.S. I drive an 18 wheeler,hense the address. "WE COULD'VE BEEN HUGE" ----- [No, the two secondary Fencer is quite sufficent, when backed by four GEVs. The Mk-IV can do the job by itself. The speed advantage lets this OGRE run the umbrella strategy to the max. (Zip over to the side and have only one or two targets at the edge of missile range who get it.) Don't expect the Mk-IV to make it back, but the CP has about a 50/50 chance of buying the farm. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Matthew Goldman Subject: Ogres in Role-Playing Games > From: "Todd A. Zircher" > >> I always though a total conversion package for Quake would be good > >> for that. Players could also work together or against each other > >> in multi-player death matches. > > > > [Besides putting bitmaps of all the units on the screen, what's the > > point? Would it really have the flavor of OGRE? -HJC] > > The flavor of Ogre? The board game, no. Playing the role of a fearless > cyber tank pitted against an army of conventional forces, sure. You could > even go as far as to set up the mission/scenarios from the game. The fog > of war as you trudge through a marsh or run up a river would add a > different feel to the OGREverse. I think OGRE would survive the > conversion to first person 3D shooter just fine. (Look at Gunmetal or > Battle Zone for 'proof' that SciFi tanks have a place on the gaming scene, > again.) I bet you could do it with Quake or Quake II. One person would get to play the super tank, and everyone else gets to play defenders. Matthew Goldman E-mail: goldman@visi.com Home: (612) 535-5220 Work: (612) 883-6640 My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out. ----- From: "Pat O'Hara" Subject: Ogres in Role-Playing Games The problem I see with an Ogre first person shooter is that your couldn't control all the weapons! To much to keep track of in real time. PatO ----- [That depends on the cycle time of the weapons, no? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Chris Camfield Subject: Forward Observers A few things... Regarding forward observers: while long-range sensors are (in the Ogreverse) unreliable, AI-controlled drones do exist. I can imagine that there aren't swarms of these things on the battlefield (like in Grav Armor, where range is primarily a factor of # of drones, so you can count range around obstacles), but a group of them communicating back to an armour unit or infantry using laser communicators seems possible. It might extend the life of forward observers because the drone would really be the observer, not the infantry; maybe MI with recon drones could perform FO duties as if they were a hex away from the place they want to spot from. (i.e. 1011 and 1012 are forest hexes, so 1014 isn't visible from 1011, but an infantry with drones could spot from 1011 to 1014 via 1012 through the use of drones) I think that roleplaying in the Ogreverse makes a lot more sense when the players are human, not Ogres (like in the first few suggestions); re-reading the Ogre fiction that has been written should produce a number of roleplaying situations. The alternative(?) history where the Ogres start taking control of Europe themselves seems like a great campaign setting to me. Chris PS Regarding Andrew Walter's first RP scenario... Mark Is aren't supposed to be self-aware, are they? PPS I don't know about shooter, vs sim or arcade tank game, but how about a massively multiplayer game where every vehicle was driven by a human, except for an AI-controlled Ogre (and maybe other enemy vehicles)? Your chance of survival in a classic Ogre scenario would be slim, but games could be short. :-) Chris Camfield - ccamfield@cyberus.ca Big Rude Jake Fan Club President Visit the Big Rude Page at "http://www.bigrudejake.com"! "I've had dinner with the devil, and I know nice from right" (BRJ) ----- [The problem with cheap AI is that it kills OGREs. The first missile does a positive ID on the beast and does a micro-burst transmission about the target ID before doing the death dive. The other friendly missiles nearby catch the transmission and head over that way, swarming the defenses. The effect is like an elephant getting picked clean by killer ants. In game terms, simply give missile tanks range 40. -HJC] ----- From: "Tulloh, Daniel W." Subject: Forward Observers Pat is correct regarding the survivability of FO's - all of our models indicate that their expected lifespan is on the order of 60 secs (though we were able to get that up to around 120 secs with extensive tweaking, redoing tactics, etc). The point of this is that, given today's weaponry, you don't defeat the weapon/system, you defeat the sensor. With beamrider weapons, the quickest way to do this is to suppress the FO. That said, however, I have to disagree with the premise that AI is expensive - its a question of cost vs expected return. Many of our so-called "brilliant" munitions today employ some form of AI (usually an expert system) to guide them in to the target. I can only believe that this trend will continue. Ogre's need a massive amount of AI in order to do their battlefield calculus, missiles just don't need that much. Under these conditions, FO's might become more feasible, especially in conjunction with units firing ballistic munitions. So, off the top of my head, this is how I would take a crack at the "FO problem". If we accept that the digitization of the battlefield will continue, then almost any system on the battlefield can be an FO. The following assumptions are used: 1) Each howitzer can have a dedicated link to one and only one FO. Note that the FO unit can vary throughout the game, but only one per turn. An FO may be dedicated to more than one howitzer. 2) The "sight range" of an FO is twice their weapon range. Each turn beyond the first that a given FO is directing fire at a target, the howitzer may either shift the CRT one column to the right, or treat 6's as 5's, etc (I forget how the table is constructed - if 6 is the best roll in a column, then switch this: treat 1's as 2's) The target must remain within the 2x weapon range of the FO, be within the range of the howitzer, etc. If the FO switches to a new target, this bonus is lost. If the FO becomes disabled or killed, this bonus is lost. This bonus is cumulative - so on the third turn, the howitzer may shift the CRT two columns, OR treat 6's and 5's as 4's OR shift the CRT one column and treat a 6 as a 5. Its to the benefit of the target to get out from under this fire as soon as possible, or else the FO will be able to zero in the howitzer. Note that no-one else may benefit from an FO, only howitzers and other "long-range artillery". (ie, weapons firing non-missile munitions at ranges greater than 4 hexes) Ogre's cannot use FO's because they fire missiles, which would probably have some sort of seeking ability. Dan ----- [Seeking for what? Thats as daft as the suggestion on the naval newsgroup that Pershing missiles would use their radar guidance to hunt for ships. The problem is that the area searched is very small in relation to the size of the ocean. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb hcobb@io.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1998, by Steve Jackson Games.