============ OGREverse list, Nov 25th (Last: Nov 20th) ============= ===== Kill the Howitzer From: Steve Jackson ===== Ogre Minis Dimensions From: "Andrew Walters" ===== OGRE transports From: VIPER394@aol.com From: "Pat O'Hara" From: "Andrew Walters" From: Preston Gustine ===== Ogre mini's do exist From: "Andrew Walters" From: "Stephen Said" ------------------------------ From: Steve Jackson Subject: Kill the Howitzer I've been fooling around with this scenario, originated by Garth Getgen. It got some more playtesting last weekend at EarthGate. Seems to be pretty well balanced now . . . comments? (I wrote some fiction for this but it's too long to post.) Setup: (1) Defender chooses which map will be used - GEV or SHOCKWAVE. (2) Attacker declares which map-edge (N/E/S/W) his forces will enter on. (3) Defender sets up all his units. The two howitzers must be placed so their overlapping fields of fire completely block the path between the chosen map-edge and the opposite one. The other units may be placed wherever the defender thinks they can best defend the howitzers. (4) Attacker moves first, entering any or all of his units along the map-edge declared in step 2. Units which don't enter on the first turn may enter on any later one. Attacking forces: 4 GEVs and 4 LGEVs. Defending forces: 2 Howitzers 4 Light Tanks 18 squads of regular infantry. There are no reinforcements. No unit may leave the map. All towns/bridges are intact unless the players agree otherwise. Victory Conditions The attacker has one hour (15 turns) in which to take out at least one howitzer. Nothing else matters. If a howitzer is destroyed, the attacker has won, though the players may continue to see what else happens (eliminating the second howitzer would be a coup indeed!). The defender wins by preserving both of his howitzers through 15 attacker turns. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [I recall seeing some website that posted a few OGRE fictions, but Steve, I'd submit that story as quickly as possible if I was you, as it doesn't seem to get updated that often. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Ogre Minis Dimensions Could someone send me the dimensions of the lead minis of the Ogres Mk III & V, the HVY, GEV, MSL, and HWZ? I just want height, length, and width, and I don't care about units (as in inches or centimeters) or pinpoint accuracy. Send by private email to avoid sparking bizarre discussions. Or risk it, if you like. Thanks in advance... andreww@farallon.com ------------------------------ From: VIPER394@aol.com Subject: OGRE Transports Ogre/Bolo APC's I think we all knoe that Ogres are but thinly disguised and slightly more primitive verisions of Keith Larmer's Bolos and Bolos although the more advanced need no crew they have crews quarters for several humans compleate with arms lockers that could service a full platoon. One story told of un unmodified Bolo being used as a evac transport for several dozen children. If with a Bolo why couldn't a Ogre stripped of a few weapons serve as a massive APC? Im not sure if the sacrifice In firepower to carry a platoon or company or Light battalion would be worth it but it could be done but surely the transport of a raiding battalion be better served by if you are sending an Ogre any way send a Real Ogre with a handfull of Gev-Pcs ----- [I seem to recall an URL that compared OGREs with BOLOs, it went something like... http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/articles/notes.html -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Pat O'Hara" Subject: OGRE transports Why use an Ogre? Even today, the only reason for motor trans for infantry is so they can keep up with the armor. If you want to deploy troops we can "ship" them anywhere in the world alot faster than you can get a Fed Ex package. ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: OGRE transports Ogres are able to have more armor because they lack crew spaces, consoles, and life support (air handling, temperature control). But if the people inside are in powered armor they don't need any kind of shielding or life support, and if they're just riding they don't need displays and controls and so on. Take a Mark V, remove the ammunition, loading aparatus, and fire control for the mains and secondaries and you ought to be able to squeeze nine squads in there. Leave the barrels on the outside to confuse people, and leave the missles since they don't take up internal space and they're handy for taking out HWZ and GEVs that are in the way, or softening up your target. And you can still ram and ignore D's. Pretty cool So I would say the Ogre PC possible, but not practical. Is it worthwhile to have a 120 point (my estimage) transport for may 18 points worth of troops? I think they'd be just as "safe" and perhaps more effective, certainly more cost effective, riding in GEV PCs accompanied by GEVs. Of course, MI really don't like to be close to Ogres, as has been mentioned repeatedly. I could see that going either way, but the mythology says they want distance. ------------------------------ From: Preston Gustine Subject: OGRE Transports OK OGRE with troops would be as follows: Standard Fencer design, however the AP batteries are traded in for 6 small BPC pillboxes that contain 1 squad of infantry. The pillboxes provider the troop with a 2 defense, and the troops are allowed to fire as they normally would. The trade off thou is that whenever a system on the Fencer is hit all of the troops suffer a 1-2 hit, side effect of being so close to the blast. Now as for why these troops are there... simple. Instead of destroying the command post, the troops need to enter it and retrieve the communication codes of the enemy. The troops can embark and dis-embark from their transport Fencer at the cost of 1 mp, and must spend 1 full turn with in the CP to retrieve the codes. After the codes have been taken, the CP does still need to be destroyed. Once on board the troops will download the codes into the Fencer (this does not cost any form of action points). If they succeed and escape off the map with the Fencer - Total victory If they are able to steal the codes, but only the troops escape (unlikely, but possible) partial victory If they steal the codes, destroy the CP, but can not escape its a draw. If the codes are not retrieved, but the CP is still destroyed partial defensive victory If the codes are never taken, and the Fencer and attacking troops are destroyed - Total defensive victory. I find that this one is a nice change from the standard OGRE format. The Combine, quick to adapt came out with their own counter to this style of deep penetration/commando Fencer with a modified MK III. 2 secondary batteries, and all AP mounts were removed and replaced with 2 more missiles, a GEV hanger mounted on the back deck, and 5 troop pillboxes (2 on each side and one located at the front at the base of the coning tower) plus better tread units. The re-distribution of weight also allowed for a slightly faster unit. Increase movement by one, and replace the treads with those of the Mk IV. The GEV hanger can hold 2 GEVs or 4 light GEVs. The hanger has a 3 defense and is not subject to the 1-2 hit rule like the infantry are (thicker armor and no firing ports). ----- [Every D result, anywhere on the OGRE, kills a third of the infantry, right? -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Ogre mini's do exist I don't mean to be argumentative, but that's more or less what I'm going to do. This is all meant with goodwill, lest it be misread... >The company seems quite rabid about protecting itself from illegal copies I don't think they're any different from any other intellectual property company. Their web page does carefully lay out what can and can't be done, and what's necessary to go farther than described. That's better than most companies, who just say, "stay away." >(which I can understand) but then it seems equally rabid in NOT >re-releasing or coming up with any new/old Ogre stuff. There are strong implications that there's a more or less completed supplement ready to go as soon as the minis problem is solved. Rumor has it the title is Killing Zone and it has sea-ogres in it. I'm not too worried because between the web page and this list there's a pretty good flow of material to fire the imagination. > >If you have no plans on coming out with miniatures or games (and the >"having problems finding quality manufacturer, etc" line gets old after a >couple/few years) Why not let somebody else do so? Considering what many other companies are willing to accept money for, I'd rather wait. I would agree that it can't be too hard to find someone to do the manufacturing if the money was available pay for it, but if you want the minis company to be involved in the risk I can see it would be harder. I suspect a third party could get involved here. If you get a quote from some plastic or lead company to produce the shapes, get packages printed, and front the money I bet you could get a license from SJG to sell them, provided they're sure you're going to do a decent job of it. Somebody with a few spare hours a week and a couple thousand dollars could start a nice little business. Probably not a lot of money in it, but it could be fun. Personally I know SJG has a lot of balls in the air, and I'd rather see the updated Triplanetary hit the shelves than another book of Ogre units and scenarios. Actually, I'd like to see Ogreverse scenarios and so on in Pyramid, which is mostly a RPG magazine right now, with board game reviews. > [I don't think you quite understand the timetable Mr Jackson is >operating on. (He is waiting to sue the government for copyright >infringement when they do start fielding OGREs. ;-) Cool. He and Keith Laumer can split 15% of a multi-billion dollar R& D project, and SJ Games can stop charging for things. Andrew Walters andreww@farallon.com "On a scale from one to ten... its not good." Owl, in Winnie The Pooh's Grand Adventure ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Said" Subject: Ogre mini's do exist Hello Henry, Jim Kajpust, I have only one thing to say. Here, here! Regards, Stephen ------------------------------ Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1998, by Steve Jackson Games.