============ OGREverse list, June 22nd (Last: June 15th) =============

===== Cast not in stone.
    From: Servitor@aol.com

===== Tanks for the memories
    From: Patrick Odonnell <Patrick.Odonnell@quantum.de>

------------------------------

From: Servitor@aol.com
Subject: Cast not in stone.

Enough with the tower...

Here's some news.  Armorcast has signed an agreement with FASA to produce 
resin model kits of BattleMechs.  What does that have to do with OGRE?  I 
have it on (reasonably) good authority that Armorcast may eventually produce 
scale models from the Ogre universe.  Never been to the Armorcast website?  
Here's a hyperlink:
 <A HREF="http://www.armorcast.com/">ARMORCAST - On-Line Catalog</A> 

And yes, I'm still building my website.  I will let you know when it has been 
uploaded to a good server.  And no, I'm not going to use AOL or GeoCities, 
'cause I know how frustrating those pop-up advertisements can be.  I would 
rather pay for a server for my website than have to put anyone through that 
hell.

best,

flunky
Servitor@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Patrick Odonnell <Patrick.Odonnell@quantum.de>
Subject: Tanks for the memories

		For the record it is Patrick O'Donnell. According to our
mail server Sys-Admin the apostrophe and the capital D are just not to be
had that easily on our system. Oh well. 
	---------
	From: "Patrick O'Hara"
	Since I was my message did not seem to be read carefully last time
let me try from a different angle.  What are the critical points of a M1A1
Abrahms Main Battle Tank?  There are two, the main gun and the engine
compartment.<snip> 
	<PJ>
		Uh ... er ... and the living beings inside. My post assumed
that the penatrator round was already known to this list? It's a little
Israeli invention that came out about fourteen years ago. (And, as for that
thing with the not read carefully well ... we'll just let it go.)
		I have never had any first hand experience with/in an
Abrams. But, I was trained in the U.S. Marine Corps to aim my little hand
held - wire guided Dragon missile between the turret and the main chassis on
a tank. I was told that with a good hit I could pop the turret off of a tank
and flash fry the living flesh inside by setting off the rounds and fuel
stored in close proximity to said same living flesh. For this very reason
the Swedes have at least one RPG like device in every platoon.(Of course, I
wasn't aware that this was a *Modern Armor* discussion list.) 
	<O'Hara>
	My point about redundancy. <snipped the point about...> How far down
this road do you wish to go?
	<PJ>
		As far down it as it takes to come to the point where I
seriously degrade, or take out all together, the commo and Non LOS abilities
of an Ogre through the elimination of the tower. Right up to that point
where all of the drones, helicopters, and satellites are no longer making
regular/consistent contact thereby eliminating the Ogre's real time Non LOS
targeting ability and the Ogre is reduced to LOS targeting.
	<O'Hara>
	<PJ snipped the stuff about what makes "Ogre" fun>
	<O'Hara>
	In truth I agree with you in general, though my attacks against an
Ogre would be different.  If I have access to tac-nukes, why not bury the
Ogre and be done with it?
	<PJ>
		A+ for solid tactical thought. But, what if you don't have
access to tactical nukes? Are you back to a list of priority targets?
	<O'Hara>
	<Snipped the solid tactical description which WOULD work wonders
against an Ogre.>
	...but I don't want lots of detailed rules. I guess I like Ogre as a
relatively simple, easy to play game.
	<PJ SIGHS>
		I cannot remember having suggested any detailed rules.
Furthermore, the three main rules suggestions which have been made by other
list members (I have them all on printout) are all extremely elegant in
nature and require a simple addition of minimal info to the Ogre record
sheet. All of the effects of the elimination of an Ogre tower are *Factored
Into* the above named suggestions. The only thing I have been *Arguing* is
the justification for these SIMPLE RULES >OPTIONS< not additions.
		Furtherstill, I cannot understand why this is such a
problem. Those who wish can keep playing their *Ogre Stomp* version of the
game and I can keep playing my *Elegant Ogre* version at one and the same
time. The game of Ogre can be kept very simple to play by having the *Basic
Game* and a book entitled *Ogre Options.* Why do we have to have a baby on
this one people? It is a game. WE CAN ALL HAVE OUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. I
mean, this is a discussion group about an SJGames product isn't it? We have
all heard of "GURPS" haven't we? You know that RPG which can be summed up in
32 pages and yet still expanded endlessly.
		Anyway, I know which way I am going. My thanks to those who
have given me some rules options to play with.
	--------
	[My pot boils over.<snip>]
	<PJ>
		Mine too and for the same reason. And, then the fluid either
condenses and boils into steam again or eventually bursts the bounds of the
chamber it is in. (Any one ever seen a pressure cooker go up?) It's called a
heat exchange mechanism.  The Ogre will have one or it will be carrying a
steam bomb in its entrails. Or, it will simply use air cooling. 	  
	--------
	[Tanks survive because they are stealthy.<snip>]
		Are the tanks stealthy or was the TERRAIN ideal for hiding
tanks. (Do you remember the pictures coming out of the Kuwaiti DESSERT of
all those fried tanks?)
	-------------

	Enough of the *Tower* thing already. New idea time. Anybody up for a
little *Bell Curve* resolution in "Ogre?" 

	For this you will need 6d2.  I suggest 6 *Fair* coins or 6D4 and
then choose either odds or evens to count for outcomes resolution. Remember
to be consistent once you have chosen. (For the purposes of this example I
will use coins and choose heads to count for the purposes of outcomes
resolution.)
===========
The Basic Math
===========
(# of heads)	Prob.		Percentage Chance
-------------------------------------------------------------
0			1/64		1,562%
1			6/64		9,375%
2			15/64		23,438%
3			20/64		31,25%
4			15/64		23,438%
5			6/64		9,375%
6			1/64		1,562%

	This then yields a new and interesting *Combat Results Table.* For
the purposes of this example I simply modified the table on Page 30 of the
"Ogre Miniatures" rule book.

============================
Modified Combat Results Table
============================
				COMBAT ODDS
		1-3	1-2	1-1	2-1	3-1	4-1	5-1
ROLL 
(ON 6D2)
0		CF	CF	NE	NE	NE	NE	D
1		CF	NE	NE	D	D	D	X
2		NE	NE	NE	D	D	X	XX
3		NE	NE	D	D	X	XX	XX
4		NE	D	D	X	XX	XX	XX	
5		D	D	X	X	XX	XX	XX
6		X	X	XX	XX	XX	XX	XX
_______________________________________________________________
 
	The only *Real* addition to this table is the abbreviation CF or
Critical Failure. I will leave it to the individual gaming group to define
what a Critical Failure means in any given situation.

	If you don't think that Ogres are capable of "Critical Failures"
than let them roll a 1D6 on the current table and *Human* forces roll on the
table suggested above.

	Thoughts anyone?

Have a good one everybody,
PJ

-----

    [Close range Cruise Missiles are murder against OGREs, especially with
the OGRE Minis rules.  An undamaged Mk V has a ten percent chance of
letting a cruise get to four and half inches, even if it fires every
missile it has in defense.

    At that range the explosion will strip off two thirds of the OGRE's
weapons and inflict two dice of thread damage.  Infantry in woods at the
same range only lose a third their number.  (Reminds me of the story of
the militia and the superheavy).

    How about this change:  Infantry mount armor at the END of their
side's second movement phase.  When attacked, Infantry on top of an armor
unit can choose either to remain mounted (and get no better defense bonus
from terrain than the armor does) or scatter (and move out on foot their
next turn.)  -HJC]

	Henry J. Cobb	ogre@sjgames.com          http://www.io.com/~hcobb
All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1999, by Steve Jackson Games.