============ OGREverse list, May 2nd (Last: Apr 28th) ============= ===== New mechanic: playtest feedback appreciated From: Steve Jackson ===== Snap! YOWCH!! From: Servitor@aol.com ===== The OGRE cartoon series From: "Todd A. Zircher" ===== Where have all the OGREs gone? From: bryan rombough From: "Joseph Bloch" ===== Preemption From: Patrick Odonnell ------------------------------ From: Steve Jackson Subject: New mechanic: playtest feedback appreciated I'm thinking of this mainly for Ogre Miniatures, but we *do* want to reprint the original game before too long . . . This is a proposed change in the firing rules. It would give the *effect* of split move and fire, without actually changing the sequencing. Basically, units do not have to fire from their final position; each unit can place a "fire from here" marker at any point along its movement path. This means that a unit can effectively fire and flee -- which is currently a very bad idea in OGRE. The markers might be keyed to unit numbers, or might just indicate "2 points" or whatever. Depends on how many units are in play. For the [hypothetical] computer game, you would just be keeping track of each unit's path during movement, and picking a point along that path to fire from when combat came along. An Ogre would thus be able to drop a lot of those counters as it moves. Would a GEV be able to drop a fire counter during its SECOND move, if it had not done so during its first, or would it just get a much longer move and no second phase? Two questions, or maybe three. Or four. (1) Playable? (2) Fun? (3) More realistic? Definitely yes. (4) And the subtle question . . . by reducing the criticality of where the Ogre, in particular, ends up, does it actually take away from the intellectual aspect of the game? Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [The differnce between this and my split-fire http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/foxhunt.htm is that you only allow for one firing point per turn. This might be sufficent to keep OGREs alive against modern defensive tactics, but is a bit abusive for other units. (GEVs and Missile Tanks would love fire and retreat.) The problem remains that half an OGREs firepower is in the Secondary Batteries and if sufficent targets just aren't quite within reach, half of those guns are as worthless as if they'd already been blown off. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Snap! YOWCH!! Andrew Walters writes: << So quit whining for Steve to do something. >> Steve Jackson writes: << Bite your tongue, John. Junk mail from the already-committed will just bug me. >> I really, really have to resist getting personal here. This posting (done with too little thanks or recognition by the esteemed Henry Cobb) is for positive thoughts on the game we all love, not an excuse for me to vent. So, Andrew and Steve, -perhaps "pester" was a poor choice of word (not to mention lacking in detail). "Please let Steve know your thoughts and ideas when the opportunity arises" would likely have been a better way to put it. So all of you folks out there on this letter list, don't "pester" Steve, pester ME instead. I am (as I have mentioned) working on a website (no, really... stop laughing) and would love to get ideas for it (scenarios, modeling projects, game reports, pictures, anything!) Pester... err, I mean, email me at Menial@aol.com Why not Servitor? Because I get junk email there and would hate to accidentally delete your mail, mistaking it for spam. However, Steve, while I did not intend to trigger "junk" mail from fans of your game(s), I will NOT back off from the stand that customers should let you know their wants and ideas. If email is suddenly verboten (did I say that right?) then, pray tell, what ways CAN we tell you our thoughts? Well, I ran the above past Steve before sending to the list. Because I really just wanted an opinion. Here is his response: In a message dated 4/29/99 1:18:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sj@io.com writes: << I don't mind that . . . it's the whole reason my e-mail address is public. But there are a few people who have become pests, telling me the same things over and over at great length. I killfile them to make time for people who might have something new to say. Yep, "pester" was a really bad word choice... >> Okay, okay. I (grudgingly) apologize and will try to think before I type. (But let me tell you, that blood tasted awful when I bit my tongue.) Incidentally, Andrew hit it right on the mark when he said we should get out there and play. I have run demo games of Dino Hunt and OGRE Macrotures at our game room in Sci-Fi City and plan to do more once our new expansion is finished. Henry, if I've crossed the line here, just delete. If I don't see this letter (or parts thereof) in the next posting, I will take the hint. best, flunky Send thoughts, flames, etc (as long as they concern OGRE) to: Menial@aol.com WARNING: Do NOT send attached files! I cannot download them. However, for those on aol, or have the proper software, I CAN view images imbedded in the email itself.) ------------------------------ From: "Todd A. Zircher" Subject: The OGRE cartoon series Jpattern@aol.com writes: > > For my money, go the computer-generated route, with a short > that could run on MTV and Cartoon Network. No humans at all, > just voices associated with each vehicle. You know who loves those? The people over at the SciFi Channel. Start it out like a music video with the credits in the lower left corner. "Mark III" "copyright 1999, Some Clever Guy" "Ogre is a copyright and trademark of" "Steve Jackson Games - www.sjgames.com" Have some opening shots of conventional units looking nervous with lots of garbled radio chatter. Enter the Ogre, god of destruction. [Insert 15 seconds of ass kicking.] As the Ogre rolls past the wreckage, zoom in on the bummer sticker attached to the rear. "SciFi me." * Time to fire up POV Ray/Lightwave/3DS-Max gents. :-) -- TAZ * Their current catch phrase. ------------------------------ From: bryan rombough Subject: Where have all the OGRE's gone? Steve (the MAN himself) said: "Now, if BIG DISTRIBUTORS would pester me, that would make a difference," You heard the man, start pestering your local game store's distributors now! now, now, now! Seriously though, I'm very glad to hear that Mr. Jackson is still working on OGRE, it was the first wargame I ever played and so, as a gamer, it will always have a special place in my heart. (Oh Lord, is that corny or what?) About all the anime-manga bashing, Mr. Cobb, could you clue me in? am I being thick or was your "six things to revive OGRE" really supposed to be humourous? Personally I'm a big anime and manga fan, I just think that the artwork I mentioned last time looks damned good and fits the ‘mood' of the OGRE universe. This is a little beside the point but, to Andrew & Jeff, what kind of low-quality anime have you been watching? not Ghost in the Shell or even Akira, I think, and since when has Johnny Quest even been pseudo-anime? Crimson Skies and BattleFleet Gothic? talk about art selling a game regardless of the quality. Consider yourselves chastised. Andrew did bring up a good point about what we the gamers can do about reviving OGRE. I'm setting myself up for a fall here, but come October I'll try to run some games of OGRE/GEV at CanGames in between the other games I'm hoping to run/play in. Bryan Rombough ----- From: "Joseph Bloch" Subject: Where have all the OGRE's gone? I just hope all this talk about manga, anime, and mecha is a joke. One of the things that really appeals to me about OGRE/GEV is the fact that it is somewhat serious (grim, even), adult, and realistic. (That is, I can see hovertanks as logical extrapolations of modern military technology, and the OGREs themselves are almost believable; a lot more than a 'mech at least.) Too much fantasy, or cutesiness, would destroy the integrity of the OGREverse. We don't need an anime series to make the games popular; we need support for the game itself! A new rulebook, new minis, and solid, engaging scenarios. That's it! Please don't turn OGRE into Battletech... Joe Bloch ------------------------------ From: Patrick Odonnell Subject: Preemption <...> What is it we really want? <...> Well, I can't speak for us all but I know what I want to see in a re-released Ogre. (I have already posted a number of MHOs over on the Ogre Message Boards and thereby am taking up free SJG resources. So, I won't re-post them here.) 1. I want an option to allow for pre-emptive strikes (or at least the important after affects thereof) against Ogre's during their deployment phase. (read that before they arrive at the outer edge of the battle map.) Now, short of an "Axis and Allies" style global strategic game being drug out for hours before the gaming group goes to the traditional Ogre battle board I think it could be handled with a simple table and an *Advanced Ogre* rule: When agreed to by all the players involved it possible for the Ogre to show up already damaged at one end of the traditional battle map. (Maybe after the role of a natural 12 on 2d6 by the defending player. Or, maybe the defender has to spend precious points for a single role on this table. Or, maybe it is all up to the referee.) ============================= Pre-emptive Strike damage table. ============================= ( Rolls 2d6) 12 The Ogre has made it to within 16 Miles of *His* objective (read that onto the battle map) unscathed. 11 The Ogre is only nominally damaged. .... 2 The Ogre is heavily damaged and only has a few weapons systems in tact and/or the Ogre's movement is greatly decreesed. You see its just this. I believe that it was in 1973 when the Isrealis destroyed 350 Syrian aircraft while they were still on the ground. They did this by the way with a total of 49 used strike aircraft. Years later they also bombed an unfinished nuclear weapons reactor in Iraq. So, what's my point? Speaking in terms of survival when humans are faced with the prospect of such desolations as Ogres or other weapons of mass annihalation they usually go hunting and do their dead level best to pre-empt. I would like this option in Ogre. Now, since it is assumed an Ogre has to make it to within a 16 mile, or so, range of its final objective in order to have a game then that has to be allowd for. However, that the Ogre always gets there unscathed is, IMHO, assuming too much. 2. I want to be able to blow the coning tower off of an Ogre. (And, for said attacks to have real effects on the Ogre's ability to perform its mission.) I mean, think about it, I can take out main and secondary batteries but not that D**N tower? Give me a break. (Why chop the feet out from under an Ogre when I can poke it's eyes out.) 3. Regardless, of how big the thing is it is MHO that the number of rounds of at least the main batteries need to be a part of the character sheet. Ammo, especially tactical nuclear ammo, is neither free nor infinite in available supply. Ammo never has been throughout the whole of history. It is MHO that it never will ever be either. Just a few thoughts, Regards, PJ ----- [Speaking of prempetive strikes, where do you think those craters on the map came from? -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 1999, by Steve Jackson Games.