============ OGREverse list, Apr 19th (Last: Mar 30th) ============= ===== Names for Ogre armor units From: "Duncan McEwen" From: "William Spencer" From: TuRbZ From: VIPER394@aol.com ===== Hackers in Ogre From: "William Spencer" ===== Map question From: "Grogan, Paul" ===== New Map for Playtest From: Steve Jackson ===== ogre miniatures From: "my4meowz" ===== Ogre Alone From: RMila75@aol.com ===== Lunar Ogre Variant From: "Walter O'Hara" ------------------------------ From: "Duncan McEwen" Subject: Names for Ogre armor units I just wanted to put in my two cents on the unit names. The way I see it, the units in the game are representative of classes, not individual units. Since the war is set over period of several years, and the forces are not really homogenous, there are actually a wide range of tanks, all that fall under the category of Heavy tank and function the same in Ogre. This is part of what makes Ogre a simple and fun game. You don’t have to worry a bout whether use have a Sherman 2056 or a Panzer XIV, you just have a Heavy Tank, M3, D3, 4/2. This keeps things simple but does cause a lack of realism. (On the other hand, how realistic is a battlefield with tac nukes flying? There wouldn’t be much worth fighting for long.) If people want to name specific types of tanks, great; but I don’t think that they should have any effect on the game other than flavor text. (Ok, I play a lot of CCGs.) Also, on the light tank issue, I figure most of the guns launch smart ammo and don’t need a straight line (hence no LOS rules). Therefore, the LT should have no real problems. Again, just my thoughts. Thanks, Duncan McEwen KISS “Keep it Simple Steve” :) ----- [What about close quarters combat with nuclear weapons? I think that would tend to influence designs over time. -HJC] ----- From: "William Spencer" Subject: Tank Names and Stuff I'd use lots of serial numbers to name Ogre tanks. Do modern armored units have a designation system similar to those used by aircraft and naval vessels? (BB = battleship, FB = fighter-bomber, etc.) Maybe a similar system is used for armor units. So a Combine amphibious Heavy equipped for antipersonnel work would be an MHT-A-1138. Consider, also, the use of made-up designations, like the NATO designations for Soviet MiGs. The North American Combine seems to be very nationalistic and conformist (they'd make great bad guys in GURPS Ogre, just like Nazis or Imperial Troopers) so I don't know that they'd acknowledge Native American or even Spanish or French names. Probably lots of proper, "American" sounding names like Lincoln, Grant, Reagan, Jackson, Austin... (Reagan-class anti-air laser? Jackson-class HVY?)...and nothing that sounds too "foreign". (Hypocritical, I know, for a country of immigrants, but that's us.) ------------------------------------------------------------ "That's it. Six times nine. Forty-two." "I always knew there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe." - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy William Spencer williamspencer@hotmail.com ----- From: TuRbZ Subject: Names for Ogre armor units Personally, I like the German names for armor units myself. The big cat names work really well for Paneuro Ogres. The names invoke images of power and near invicibility inspired by the original bearers of those names. Stuff like "Konigtiger" or "UberPanther" or something like that, you get the idea. As for the smaller units, I think the Panzerkampfwagon-like designations work well. What I mean by "like" designations, I mean versions of this designation modified to better match the function of the specific units. For ex. a particular battlesuit could be called "Panzeranzug Ausf IV" or something along those lines. GEV's could be called something like "Panzerkampf(flyer or hover). Sorry, my Germans very rusty and I don't know the word for hover. Admittedly, these type of names are very long, and so the designation could also include a more anglicized name for eazier reference, like the Tigers and Panthers. I don't agree with the idea that each of the Paneuro states would refer to the same units with different names. Although they are a cosmopolitan group, there still has to be some sense of unity in their armed forces. The same with england sharing the same names with Combine units as they did in WW2 by calling Sherman tanks by their US name. I think a change of names would be on the "regional" scale. For ex. the middle eastern states might use Paneuro units but give them a more regional name, like the way they do to their Soviet and Chinese stuff today. The only time I see a break with this, is in a very fractionalized area, such as Africa, where the independant tribes/states might have their own regional names for their units. TuRbZ ----- From: VIPER394@aol.com Subject: Names for Ogre armor units Names My suggestions for Pan- Eroupe SHVY Maus-II HVY Koing-Tiger -III MSL Jagdpanzer-Rockett LT Licte-Panzer HWZ Pak-70 MHWZ Stug-VI GEV Luft-Panzer ------------------------------ From: "William Spencer" Subject: Hackers in Ogre I just read Masamune Shirow's "Ghost in the Shell", the other day. Got me thinking. ...considering the increasing interconnectedness of the Web, and the importance of up-to-date data in the modern combat environment, mightn't the Ogre military forces be "wired"? (Yes, it's the GURPS: Ogre - GURPS: Cyberpunk crossover!) Imagine, the local CP acts as a server, shunting messages and information from unit to unit, and interpreting orders from higher up. Everything could be linked into the network, from the jamscreens to the detection icons on the field sensor net to the tanks and infantry suits themselves. This would allow rapid updates to be sent to all units. Automatic Friend-or-Foe Identification, automatic handling of communications, sensors, and jamming frequencies, etc. Disabled vehicles could be piloted remotely from base. New data would be instantly uploaded to the LAN, and disseminated among the troops according to their security clearances. Then imagine what happens if an enemy virus or worm breaks into your system. It may not be able to take over your vehicle (at least as long as the crew remains conscious - they'd use the manual override), but it could certainly screw up your sensor readouts, or give away your position to the enemy - or maybe just crash the control computer, disabling the vehicle while it reboots. "Electronic warfare" would take on a new meaning, as enemy hackers try to infiltrate each other's networks. Pity the poor fool who tries to hack an Ogre. Pity the soldiers on the ground if that fool succeeds. ------------------------------------------------------------ "That's it. Six times nine. Forty-two." "I always knew there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe." - The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy William Spencer williamspencer@hotmail.com ----- [It is very difficult to hack a computer that has a mind of it's own. In some of the Bolo stories there were built-in worms to disable rogue units. (If only the OGRE designers had thought of that...) (But I do think that Steve should release a Hackers in OGRE expansion, even if only to taunt the FBI. ;-) -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Grogan, Paul" Subject: Map question I also have a quick question. The new release of OGRE/GEV, is the map the same as the original GEV map and is the rulebook the same. The reason I ask is that I seem to have recently lost my GEV rulebook. I know the rules pretty well but would like the scenario information again. If the new set is a reprint of the old set, I'll just buy the new set which I was going to do anyway to support the game. The question is, do I need to get someone to send me a photocopy of the original GEV rulebook Thanks in advance Paul Grogan NT Server Development and Support GlaxoWellcome Int: 782 2603 Ext: 01438 762603 ------------------------------ From: Steve Jackson Subject: New Map for Playtest We have a few copies of the playtest version of the first new GEV map. If you're interested in fooling with it and trying your hand at scenario design, either for this map alone or linked to existing ones, write to russellg@io.com. Send your street mail address, because we have hardcopies ready to send out. Obviously, these are confidential - you can play with friends, but don't distribute copies! Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ------------------------------ From: "my4meowz" Subject: ogre miniatures Any way to have updates on the release of new Ogre minis (not the Macrotures) posted on a bi-weekly basis or something? Any bites on Steve's lures to manufacturers to produce miniatures? I really don't want to wait 6 months with no news and then hear the project is being dumped...waiting for Ogre minis has been a long and frustrating process...e.g. the Soldiers & Swords debacle...Thanks! Rob Esselstein in Chillicothe,OH ------------------------------ From: RMila75@aol.com Subject: Ogre Alone Hello. I am totally new to Ogre and boardgaming in general and know nothing about the rules of this game. Can it be played solitaire? If so, is it a good game for a beginner? Thanks very much! -RM ----- [The lack of hidden information makes OGRE a good solitare game. GEV is slightly less suitable. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: "Walter O'Hara" Subject: Lunar Ogre Variant LUNAR OGRE VARIANT I've been picturing a variant for OGRE/GEV on the moon for a while-- after all, space travel isn't prohibited in the SJ timeline per se, it would just be impossible/too expensive to boost all these lovely weapons up into space... and I doubt mankind would ever make a rocket big enough to send an OGRE into space, or even a Superheavy tank. That doesn't preclude making the stuff up there, however. If you posit that a system of bases and factories are set up by both the Combine and Pan-Europa, the possibilities open up for a verrry interesting environment for new battles in the OGRE/GEV system. It's pretty much in my head at the moment, but here's what I've thought up so far: Lunar Environment All MP costs are the same as "Clear" on Earth, except for the following: Craters: Treat as SWAMP terrain in GEV-- i.e., 2MPS to enter, chance of being disabled, and defense doubled. Cliffs: Changes in Elevation Cost an additional 1MP for every level, LOS is blocked by elevations, LOS blocked in the hex NEXT to an elevation change if fired on from above. Railways: All railways are considered to be UNDERGROUND on Luna. Therefore, they cannot be severed by fire combat. Trains move by the same rules as they do in GEV. Railways must connect structures together or extend offmap. New Units Structures: Moonbases are a new structure. They can hold up to 5 regular INFs or 3 Space Marines. Defense of 2, Cost 3. Alpha, Beta and Gamma are Moonbases on the map I have made (more on this later). Space Marine INFs: Like regular INF, but can move/fight on the Lunar surface. Cost 5 per squad (use the Regular Marine Counter) Moon Buggy (need to make a new counter): Attack 2 Defense 2 Move 3/2, like a GEV. Highly agile utility vehicle for movement of maintenance crews on the Lunar Surface. Cost 4 holds up to 2 squads. Landers (need to make a new counter): Attack 2 Defense 3 Move (special) Cost 10. Landers are a specialized unit for the transportation of smaller units (usually reinforcements) Reinforcements are recorded off map on a piece of paper. They can LAND anywhere on the map during the movement phase. To LOAD/UNLOAD, the Lander must stay in place the subsequent turn while the loading units move into or out of the adjoining hex. The Lander BOOSTS into low orbit at the end of the turn and may not reappear on the map for another 2 turns. Changes to Existing Units These units may be used in Lunar Ogre: MSL, SHVY, HVY, LTNK, HWZ, MHWZ, OGR, MSL, CRWLR Attacks/Defenses the same as per GEV/Shockwave (more on Costs below) Hovertrucks and ALL GEV style vehicles are prohibited. There's no air for them to ride on. Structures as per Shockwave. Use Admin buildings and Reactor Domes for Factories, a particular target for scenarios. Laser Towers are allowed (encouraged) Movement changes OGRE, CRWLR, MSL, MHWZ, HVY, SHVY and LTNKs move as normal, with the movement costs listed above. As noted, Craters are treated as SWAMPS in GEV/Shockwave. Unit Costs Everything costs quite a bit on the Moon, the assumption being that every combat unit there was built there, with limited resources. Therefore, OGREs are limited to Marks I and II. All other units cost an additonal buy point. Combat all TNK class vehicles perform as they do on Earth. Missiles are another story. Every missile, with the exception of Cruise missiles, must perform a stability check when attacking by rolling 1d6. If the player rolls a 6, the missile flys off into the atmosphere and is lost. This roll applies to both MSL tanks and the missiles that come with OGREs. Howitzer rounds are assumed to be rocket assisted, but guidance is a key factor in a near weightless vacumn. Therefore, every Howitzer attack must make a target acquisition roll (another 1d6) before attacking. If the target is acquired (1-4) the attack is as normal. If the target is lost (5,6), the attack may not be committed. That's all I have so far... what do you think? I'd like to dwell a little longer on Lasers on the moon, and the effects of increased radiation and extreme low gravity. Would Overruns still be possible? What about spillover fire in a vacumn? Your ideas are solicited... I've put a sample OGRE/GEV map on the lunar surface up on the web.. here's the URL: http://pbem.brainiac.com/images/lunarmap.jpg I've used this in conjunction with the new Cyberboard gameboxes (Thanks for the permission Steve), and the results are a real hoot... I just finished soloing my "Battle of Sirtis Crater" scenario with a horrendous defeat of the Combine! All this babble is collected on an OGRE ON THE MOON website, for your viewing pleasure: http://pbem.brainiac.com/micros/Ogreluna.htm Thanks, Walt Email: Doktor_Rat@Excite.Com Voicemail: 1-888-Excite2, ext. 703-413-1000 Talking Email: http://vsnetcall.vstream.com/beep/beep_nonmemb.asp Homepage: waltohara.freeservers.com PBeM Emporium: pbem.brainiac.com ----- [Uh, three day trip to moon. Earth spins under the spacecraft on the way. Earth based lasers deep in enemy held lands take careful aim... -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2000, by Steve Jackson Games.