============ OGREverse list, Feb 10th (Last: Feb 8th) ============= ===== Fencer poll From: Steve Jackson ===== Fox Hunt From: Wrazor@aol.com ===== Infantry and Anti-Personnel weapons From: Servitor@aol.com ===== Scenario Concept: Evacuate! From: Michael Powers ===== The boilerplate FAQ From: Joseph Shelby ===== "Medium" Revetments From: Michael Powers ===== More OGRE Humor From: VIPER394@aol.com ===== Naval scenario From: goldman@visi.com ------------------------------ From: Steve Jackson Subject: Fencer poll Those of you who have been around for a while know that the original Fencer specs called for four secondaries. Later that was cut down to two, and that's the way the miniature was produced - two big guns. We have treated those two as secondaries. But, as we prepare to release the Fencer mini, I return to the question of whether the Fencer is really undergunned for its point value and for its huge cost in Last War economic terms. So let's toss a question out here - those who have played this unit, do you think I should . . . - Leave it alone - 2 secondaries, 150 points - Cut the point value to, say, 125, so a Fencer plus 4 armor units is about equal to a Mark V - Consider those two big guns to be *main* batteries, giving the Fencer a bit more punch and, more important, another hex of attack range? Fencer is 140 points, not 150. Brain damage here. But still not worth that, I fear. Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua! The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord. ----- [Reserving my comment for next time, but the guns on my fencer look like something quite different than either type of Combine gun. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Wrazor@aol.com Subject: Fox Hunt Some questions regarding your scenario: I. Don't you already have a land based scenario under this name? Perhaps you could call it something else - maybe "Lone Wolf"? II. Torpedoes: Since torpedoes travel under the surface and GEV's travel above (not on) the surface, it seems inappropriate that they should be able to attack GEV's. On the other hand, if they are actually a missile weapon they could attack GEV's but wouldn't they then be vulnerable to UVRG's. Also if this is a torpedo, it is not necessary to fully destroy a ship to sink it, just successfuly attack and create a large subsurface hole. I realize there are ways to reduce this effect, but there should be an additional rule to take this possibility into account. III. UVRG's: If this is an available weapon system, why are they not deployed to protect strategic land based targets (e.g., reactors, battalion headquarters, etc.)? Also if they place such large drains on ship resources, why do destroyers get as many as a carrier (a larger and strategically more attractive target). IV. Depth charges: Why don't destroyers have them, they would certainly make since to said ship's mission profile. And they don't have to keep returning to momma for a reload after every couple of shots. V. Carriers: On the whole I like them, but in general, I would think they would carry more LGEV's rather than hovertrucks. Also, unless you expect to be doing boarding parties or this particular mission was going to be an amphibious assault somewhere, I don't understand the need for GEV-PC's and power armor for the sailors. A carrier full LGEV's would definitely be nasty hornets nest to stir up. VI. Assault GEV's: I like them. The stats look like a modified GEV-PC, they make since within the milieu, and I think they should be canon. What would you consider their VP cost to be? Wray Odom ----- [I. Just checking to see if anybody's ever read my website. ;-) Just call this one "The Sargasso Surprise". II. If these torpedos only carried high explosives I could see that they'd have little effect on GEVs. Maybe they can't aim very well at GEVs and only do spillover effects? (These ships are very tough and the torpedos are not at the cruise missile level.) III. On land it's a lot cheaper and more effective to park a Missile Tank nearby than to build in UVRGs. And the carrier does have to carry other things than weapons, but here's an alternative design for the DDs. Two Combine destroyers, each has: 2 Naval Howitizers(3/7) Each is the same weapon as the light howitizer. Fires at half effect against submerged targets. 1 UVRG(1/1) 30 structure points(Move 3 hexes, lose one hex per ten points) If you use this, reduce the Cruiser to a single UVRG too. IV. The depth charge is a short ranged torpedo and the DD can get a simular effect from it's gun at a much safer range. Also the DD would be hard pressed to actually overrun the sub. V. This is not a "super" carrier, but a replacement for the LPD class, whose mission was: "To transport and land troops and their essential equipment and supplies by means of embarked landing craft...". The key to this scenario is that LGEVs are useless targets against the sub and are only slightly effective at shooting down missiles. The death stroke will be delivered by the GEV-PCs (with backup from the Hovertrucks.) How? Drop a dozen squads of Marines into an underwater overrun on the sub. The sub's AP and torpedoes will claim at most four squads and the remaining eight squads will take out the sub with one fire round. (Maybe that sub should be carrying some marines too?) VI. Ignoring the "naval" aspects of the Assault GEV and only considering the "two shot" missiles, the formula (from the OGRE book) gives: 1 * (4 + (6 * 1.2)) + 1.1 * 3 * 5/9 * (8 + (6 * 1.2)) + 2 * 2 * ((4 * 5/9 +4) + (4 * 1.2)) = 11.2 + 27.87 + 44.09 = 83.16 / 12 Or 6.93 VPs. Given it's other capabilities, 9 VPs is not too much to ask. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Infantry and Anti-Personnel weapons > In our OGREverse, the OGRE AP guns could be used in an Overrun attack Hmm, shuffle, shuffle...now where did I put that old 2nd edition copy of OGRE... Ah! Here it is. Well, interesting. You're right, it does show an OGRE shooting up a HVY tank with an AP battery at overrun range. Well, since an OGRE's weapons are double attack strength in an overrun, I suppose it got lucky and rolled a six on the 1-2 column of the CRT. Actually, it's and interesting idea. It would certainly do away with the rule about removing OGREs from overrun combat after it's last (regular) gun is destroyed when fighting armor only. Now EVERY gun would count. You would have to raise the VP value of an OGRE if you allowed this. How much by? Dunno. At a rough guess, I'd say raise the VP value of an AP to 2. So a MK V would have it's VPs raised by 12, from 150 to 162 points. I kind of like it. OGREs could now commit overruns without as much fear of having their guns stripped by the defense armor first (can't ignore those APs now!) And it would certainly put a stop to most games that end with the OGRE immobilized and missing all of it's big guns and missiles, but still have all it's APs. best, John Hurtt (Servitor@aol.com) ------------------------------ From: Michael Powers Subject: Scenario Concept: Evacuate! This scenario represents troops fleeing a CP just as the enemy's advance units reach it. The defender scores points based on the number of trucks and/or hovertrucks that load up and escape the map before the CP falls. This is just an idea; not a fully realized scenario. I'm putting it here to ask for some discussion and advice. Attacking forces are a Mark III or a Mark IV (or a Fencer), or possibly a group of GEVs. Defending forces are a conventional army. "Evacuating" the CP consists of moving trucks from a designated 'entry point', having them spend one movement phase in the CP hex, and then leaving via an 'exit point'. The defender scores one point per truck that escapes with a load. There is an unlimited supply of trucks; there is more material in the CP than could be evacuated in the scenario's timeframe, the only question is how much can be saved before the CP is destroyed. The force balance should be such that the CP will ultimately fall, barring horrendous luck for the attacker; thus the defender will have to work on timing. Issues to be resolved: *How many trucks can the defender bring on at a time? *Are hovertrucks available? *Where are the entry and exit relative to the CP? Can the defender or the attacker place them, or are they selected randomly? The victory conditions would probably be a table like this: 1-3 points scored: Horrible defeat for the defender. Hopefully you died valiantly in battle. 4-6 points: You saved the general, but his pet dog Ike didn't make it. Promotions are not in your future. 7-9 points: You saved the majority of the sensitive material and personnel in the CP. Good job! 10-12 points: Everything but the beer cooler made it out. 13+ points: Why did we bother evacuating? What do you think, sirs? Michael Powers ----- [Perhaps you'd like to study Shockwave scenario 8.02, "Nuts". -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Joseph Shelby Subject: The boilerplate FAQ you do realize some of this stuff is out of date? :) > Currently SJG has the combined OGRE/GEV set, the Shockwave expansion and > the Ogre Miniatures Book in print. this being the big one, of course... > Mr Jackson used to have a magazine called "The Space Gamer" which > published a lot of material on OGRE & GEV, the best ideals from this > have made their way into the Miniatures book. One of the missing pieces > is an article Mr Jackson wrote around a unit design formula that I > provided. However I made a mistake and now have to redo it. (Mr > Jackson has yet to ask for his $5 back.) if i recall Ogre Book 2nd Edition correctly, your formula (corrected) is in there...with jackson's reply (which wasn't to you directly, but to a set of units published in the space gamer issue with Operation Newspaper ("Warren, Jim Gould left this in my mailbox...") heh heh no worries...i tend to ramble a bit... Joe ----- [Ouch! OK, will fix in a bit. But you haven't seen the complete formula yet, while it doesn't cover OGREs... -HJC] ------------------------------ From: Michael Powers Subject: "Medium" Revetments Armorcast has a pack of 'Vehicle Emplacements' available for miniatures roughly the size of the Ogre miniatures. However, the new miniatures' sizes don't necessarily fit into the emplacements in "one in the small, two in the big" increments; two of the revetments are too small to hold SHVYs, two of them are big enough to hold a SHVY but not big enough to hold two of other units, and only one is big enough to really hold two units. Thus, I present the "Medium Revetment". It costs 4 points (or one-and-a-half armor units). It can hold any single armor unit of up to Size 5; it can also hold two infantry units with a maximum of five squads between them; militia can have six squads in two units. (i.e. regular infantry one 3/1 and one 2/1, militia two 3/1 although not three 2/1.) Medium Revetments can be built by engineers; it takes the same amount of work as a Small Revetment (two squad-turns of work.) What do you think, sirs? Michael Powers ------------------------------ From: VIPER394@aol.com Subject: More OGRE Humor ogre humor bumber stickers (1 meter by 10 meters) "you can have my hellbore after you pry it out of my cold dead chassis" " how's my driveing call 1-800- I Surender" " visualize world peace- or else" Upside down "If you can read this one of us is in trouble" " save the Humans" ----- [Hellbores? Hellbores? We don't need no stinking directed energy weapons! Unlike California, we've got nukes. -HJC] ------------------------------ From: goldman@visi.com Subject: Naval scenario Henry J. Cobb said the following... > I too have been thinking what a purely naval scenario and units would look > like. Funny, I've been working on a map centered around Duluth MN. One of the possible scenarios being kicked around has the Aggressor forces moving down from Canada to grab and hold the port long enough for a troop transport to steam into Duluth Harbor. The second part of the scenario is once the troops have been landed to take and hold the railroad yard in Proctor. Then move the troops to Proctor and beyond via rail. One of the interesting things that has come up is that Northern Minnesota is mostly swamps and forest. Not a lot of clear area. Railway lines, roads and streams suddenly become very useful. Infantry really are happy. A couple of the other possible scenarios include the ever popular "Breakthrough", "Terror Raid", "Escape from Wisconson", and "Von Ryan's Express". I'll add a link with the map off of my home page once the map is ready for public consumption. Matthew http://www.visi.com/~goldman/index.html ----- [I can just see a supplement or website where everybody submits a color map with a note as to the location of their home and a few scenarios over the local terrain. Personally I'm not afraid of any Nipponise OGREs crossing over the Golden Goat bridge. Have you seen they way it shakes in a stiff breeze? Nope, they'll move north from South California, which they already own half of anyway. -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.