============ The Ogre Digest, Mar 10th (Last: Mar 7th) ============= ===== Torpedos at GEVs From: Darren Breland From dbreland@selbre.com ===== Stats for New Fencer? From andreww@farallon.com ===== Rule of 4 and 6 From: "Techpriest" ===== Mark II secondaries From: Servitor@aol.com From: "Andrew Walters" From: Stephan Beal ===== Ogre unit suggestion request From: goldman@visi.com ===== Battlesuit From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com ===== FYI - Converting Battletech Mechs For Use In Ogre Miniature From: jbolton@isd.net ===== New stuff From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com ============================== From: Darren Breland Subject: Torpedos at GEVs Just found this.... See http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/shkval.htm for info on the Soviet Shkval 200 knot torpedo/underwater missile. VERY interesting. -Darren B. ===== From dbreland@selbre.com Subject: Torpedos at GEVs ...unless it's not an acoustic homing torpedo. Any number of technologies either exist or are in the works that could potentially guide a supercavitating torp. Plus, there's no need for a really energetic torpedo to stay submerged--effectively merging the missile and torpedo categories. The 300-knot torpedo seems a good deal more feasible than the blue-water marine battlesuit. --Stephen Blount keiyuri@aol.com sblount@intiso.com >[If the torps don't work underwater, how can they be used against >other subs? I'll probably put some sort of missile weapons on the attack >subs, but the advantage of torpedoes is that they are very difficult to >shoot down because they stay underwater. -HJC] I don't think the torps would be used -vs- GEV's. I would favor a VLS system similar to the Tomahawk system used on modern SSN's. It would have to be fast and limited in range (similar to a Missile Tanks) to work in the OGREverse though (the ECM/"If it flies it dies" thing). For the Soviet super-high speed torp I think wire guidance would be in order by today's standards (acoustic homing is impossible at that speed). I bet that thing doesn't turn on a dime either. It could use a "shoot and scoot" style guidance where it is launched at a speed that allows acoustic target acquisition then gives a giant burst of speed toward the targets predicted position. If it misses, it slows and attempts to reacquire (nothing new there, the US Mk48 does that). Since AI is the norm in Ogre, the torp could be semi-intelligent and "predict" the targets intercept position with a high degree of accuracy. Seems VERY feasible in the very near future to me. -Darren B. dbreland@selbre.com ===== [Now we can postulate supersonic hovercraft firing supercavitating nuclear shells at supersonic supercavitating submarines, but it doesn't fit into the Ogreverse. The air-water interface has always been lousy for precise echo location and so it's reasonable to assume that torps and GEVs would blunder into each other rather randomly with no advanced warning to either side. (You could have a "dipping" GEV that stopped quietly on the surface and listened for subs, but passive sonar wouldn't spot that either.) -HJC] ============================== From andreww@farallon.com Subject: Stats for New Fencer? Hey Steve, what are the final stats for the new Fencer? 125 points = two secondaries and 150 points = two main batteries? I can't wait until May. Andrew ============================== From: "Techpriest" Subject: Rule of 4 and 6 I really like Ogre (picked up Shockwave today) but I was a little frustrated by having to look at the Combat Results Table all the time. I decided to see if I could not figure out an easier way to accomplish the same thing. I was actually surprised how easy it was. I have been reading everything I can about Ogre and I have not seen this posted anywhere else. I can't believe I am the first one to notice this so I am not going to say this is my invention, mearly an observation I made. First figure the Attack-Defense ratio as normal. If it is under 1-1, roll a D6. A 5 is a Disabled, 6 is a Kill. If it is 1-1 or higher, roll a D6. Add the number rolled to the ratio. If it is a 4 or 5 it is a Disabled, 6+ is a Kill. Example: A Mark III Ogre Main Gun (A4) is fired at a standard GEV (D2). The ratio is 2 to 1. You roll a D6 and get a 3, add that to 2 and you get a 5, or Disabled. ============================== From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: Mark II secondaries The two MK IIs (D2 and D3 secondaries) are the same model, the D3ers were simply upgrades of the MK II chassis (probably added to the production line templates about 2071-2072 after lessons learned designing the MK III). Many D2 MK IIs remained in service throughout the initial invasion years of Paneurope as refitting was not always practical. Many D2 MK IIs also found their way into minor empires during the early and mid years of the Last War through clandestine sales (or, occasionally, outright salvage). Finally, the Combine undoubtedly found the D2ers useful for many "high-intensity, low-survival" (i.e."suicide") missions such as in the Icepick scenario. As for the cost of the MK IIs with D2 or D3 secondaries, there are several OGRE point cost algorithms out there on the web. One is directly accessible from the SJG OGRE site. best, flunky (John Hurtt, Servitor@aol.com) ===== From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: Mark II secondaries Remeber that there are four big contributors the the abstracted defence value in Ogre/G.E.V: Armor, Point Defense, ECM, and vehicle speed. The Mark II may have the same armor DR, but if it has less ECM and point defense, it will be easier to take out the secondaries. Hey, its a complicated made-up world we live in. Andrew ===== From: Stephan Beal Subject: Mark II secondaries > [O2K (Fifth edition OGRE/GEV combined set) lists the Mark II as > having D2 secondaries, and gives a "trade" value of 5/8ths of a Mark > III. I've always been curious about this: is the D2 a misprint, or does the Mk 2 actually have D2 SBs? I've always assumed it was a misprint. If a Mark II has lower-D SBs, why doesn't the Mark I have a lower-D MB? Related: The Ogre Book also lists the Fencer as having 4 SBs. I understand that that was an early design, but none of my other printed material (everything, minus minis, going back 13 years). shows them with 4 SBs. I would assume that the Ogre Book is the "latest word," but it could also have been an editorial oversight (or left in for nostalgic reasons). What is the official gun count on a Fencer? I know Mr. J. posted a question about this to the list a month or so ago, but he never posted his decision on it. While I'm here: May the SuperHeavy, when using the original Ogre rules, overrun infantry as an Ogre does, automatically reducing them? (Rationale: it now Moves as an Ogre and has AP guns...) Take care, fellas, and happy gaming. ----- Stephan Beal Generic IT Guy stephan.beal@einsurance.de http://www.einsurance.de ===== [Nope, non-ogre units cannot overrun each other in the original Ogre game, just another reason to spread out to a squad per hex. -HJC] ============================== From: goldman@visi.com Subject: Ogre unit suggestion request Hello All, I was sitting here at work, thinking about Ogre/GEV, and the map I put together. Here is a new unit. Suggestions and/or comments? Has anyone already field tested something like this? Thanks! Matt Deep Water Transport Sort of like a train. Movement: 0/1/2 forward 0/1 reverse Unlimited turns at 0 speed Two turns per turn at 1 speed One turn per turn at 2 speed. Moves in a straight line otherwise. Defense 1 Weapons 4x AP Cargo: One armor company and two infantry companies (6 armor points and 12 infantry points). Matthew Goldman E-mail: goldman@visi.com ============================== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: Battlesuit Now that SJG is producing miniatures again I'm hoping that they plan to reintroduce Battlesuit. I've still got my original copy from the Space Gamer. I'd also like to see some new units and I've got a few in mind I'd like to see: Snipers (The armor would have to have a very high ECM value). Light Support Weapons (LSW-a late 21st Century version of the M-249 SAW). Command Detonated Mines (The battlesuit version of a claymore). Bounding Antipersonnel Mines (It would detonate in the air inflicting spillover damage on surrounding targets). Mini-anti personnel Mines (The battlesuit version of a "toe popper" designed to damage a suit, or seriously wound its occupant). Possibly some new drone types. A new color map with new terrain (water, swamp, city, wooded, rough broken terrain) and scenarios would be nice. Anyone else got any ideas? ===== [Heavy Weapons are already in the game, but I'd like to see variant infantry rules, like marines or engineers, also nukes heavy enough to blow away foliage would be nice. -HJC] ============================== From: jbolton@isd.net Subject: FYI - Converting Battletech Mechs For Use In Ogre Miniature Greetings, Henry! I don't know what use you can make of the following information, but feel free! I will be running an OGRE MINIATURES game at the next MMGA ReCon (firm date to be determined - see WWW.MMGA.ORG for further info). I am also planning on running a game or two before that at one or more of the local stores as an introduction and to refine the scenarios. As part of this effort, I am using some Battletech mechs. I converted the stats for the mechs to those that are used in OGRE MINIATURES. If you want to convert your own Battletech mechs for Ogre, go to: www.homestead.com\gamewithminiatures And use the link for Free Rules. The process is there. Note that this IS a draft version and subject to change at a moment's notice. Send any questions or comments to me. Jeff Bolton ===== [Did you see the conversion rules on the sjgames.com site? -HJC] ============================== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: New stuff I'm looking for a little feed back on the Midnight Run scenario I sent in. What do you guys think of it? Do you like it? Is it balanced? How do you like my Rangers? Would anyone besides Henry like to see more? Would you like to see a little back history leading up to the scenario? Let me know. I crave feed back, and don't like operating in a vacuum. I'm currently working on two new scenarios (I hope to finish one up by the middle of the week), and some counters for my new units (it's a pain in the butt trying to make these suckers). I m also playing around with Henry's forward observer rules (for a little scenario I call firestorm), and trying to develop some naval units that can be used with the existing rules. The following are the two naval units I've come up with: Surface Effect Vehicle (SEV): It's basically a super heavy version of the standard GEV used by naval forces for fast strike and patrol duties. It has an attack strength of 4, a range of 3 (6"), a defensive strength of 3 (due to its speed, extensive use of electronic counter measures, and defensive systems), and a movement of 4(8")/3(6"). It costs 2 Armor units, and is worth 12 victory points. Hydrofoil (HYDRO): It's used a cheap patrol craft. It has an attack strength of 3, a range of 2 (4"), a defense of 2, and a movement of 4. It costs 1 armor unit and is worth 6 victory points. Try them out and let me know what you think of them. ===== [Did you see the SEV in the OGRE Book? Did you ever play that Pegasus computer game? The Hydrofoil patrol craft had missiles... -HJC] Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.