============ The Ogre Digest, Mar 22nd (Last: Mar 20th) ============= ===== New Miniatures From: "Andrew Walters" From: Servitor@aol.com ===== [sjgames-illuminator] Shots from GAMA From: webmaster@sjgames.com ===== GURPS Ogre Discrepancies? From: Charles Barnett From: "Andrew Walters" ===== Sinus Friction From: Charles Barnett ===== Battlesuit: Snipers From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com From: patrick.odonnell@materna.de ===== GEV-WW and "range" of effect From: Stephan Beal ===== GEV Paintjobs From: Robert Gurskey ============================== From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: New Miniatures The Bigfoot Combine MHWZ and Gremlin LGEV became available as individual units today for $3.50 and $1.00 respectively. PE LGEV is probly a couple weeks away, in keeping with policy. ===== From: Servitor@aol.com Subject: New Miniatures Keep checking the SJ Games' Warehouse 23 site as they continue to make more single miniatures available for Ogre through thier mail-order. (Ya get exactly as many as you want, and they're delivered right to yer door. What could be better?) best, John Hurtt (Servitor@aol.com) ============================== From: webmaster@sjgames.com Subject: [sjgames-illuminator] Shots from GAMA Keith sent a few photos of our booth at GAMA back to the home office recently. If you've never seen an Ogre ( http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/ ) Mark V playing hide-and-seek, now's your chance . . . Ogre? What Ogre? [View] ( http://staff.sjgames.com/~keith/gama/empty_booth.jpg ) Guess which one is the Art Director . . . [View] ( http://staff.sjgames.com/~keith/gama/gaggle_phil.jpg ) The inimitable Kenneth Hite, communing with a fellow extraterrestrial. [View] ( http://staff.sjgames.com/~keith/gama/hite_ps_phil.jpg ) Personally, I can't wait. [View] ( http://staff.sjgames.com/~keith/gama/ogre_booth.jpg ) More Ogre ( http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/ ) than you can shake a battlesuit at. [View] ( http://staff.sjgames.com/~keith/gama/ross_ogre.jpg ) Kamsii ( http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/planetarysurvey1/ )-head ducks as another Ogre Miniatures ( http://www.sjgames.com/miniatures/ogre/ ) sample pack zips away. [View] ( http://staff.sjgames.com/~keith/gama/phil_kamsii.jpg ) Paneuropeans attack . . . [View] ( http://staff.sjgames.com/~keith/gama/gev_burning.jpg ) And the Combine defends. [View] ( http://staff.sjgames.com/~keith/gama/ogre_burning.jpg ) -- Ben Kimball ( http://www.io.com/~mib/ ) -------------------------------------------------------------- Warehouse 23 (http://www.warehouse23.com) News: New Individual Minis! We've added the "Gremlin" LGEV (http://www.warehouse23.com/item.cgi?SJG10-0205) and the "Bigfoot" Mobile Howitzer (http://www.warehouse23.com/item.cgi?SJG10-0207) to our line of individual minis (http://www.warehouse23.com/search.cgi?gtype=miniatures-individual). ============================== From: Charles Barnett Subject: GURPS Ogre Discrepancies? Stephen Blount said: >defensible...) There's a lot of good stuff in GO, but it's a bad idea to go >using the wacky numbers in it to justify or reject new units. I reluctantly agree. Work went into the Vehicles system to give it some connection to physics. I'd hoped to use it as a check in the absence of holy writ as to what is kosher. Bummer. Any word as to whether a second edition would fix the stats? The OGREverse certainly contains blue water and amphibious warfare and these are attractive precisely because they haven't been covered. I don't think trying to extend the boardgame/miniatures system out from shore is necessarily a bad idea. The world has been 'rigged' to make tanks rule the battlefield and that can reasonably be expected to make naval engagements much shorter range affairs as well. The further from shore you get, the more precarious extensions of the game system become. I'm willing to try to find out how far one can go without 'breaking the playground equipment.' I'm not willing to stick with the hovers already available. Heavier stuff would be wanted, and that implies landing craft. Landings imply opposed landings. Paneurope's naval inferiority implies emphasis on coastal combatants, be they patrol craft or littoral subs. ===== From: "Andrew Walters" Subject: GURPS Ogre Discrepancies? I'd love to read more about SJ's comments on this, is that on the web anywhere? The Pyramid boards? I love GO as a source for stories, scenarios, etc. ============================== From: Charles Barnett Subject: Sinus Friction Henry Cobb said: > IMNSHO, a truely universal role playing system will have to allow for >different theories of technological development, just as it allows for >different types of magic. I think GURPS tries to do this. UT2 has the idea of alternate tech paths, e.g. hard science, high biotech, safetech, the nanotech revolution. GO is said loosely to be 'hard science' with some areas advanced or retarded relative to the GURPS overall Space TL9. EW and BPC are at TL11. Intentional AI and Nihonese monowire is TL10. Bionics are only TL8. Energy weapons are retarded. > After all, the basic concept of science fiction is "What if X >happened, what else would that imply?" And every author marks X in his >own way. -HJC] Exactly. And the risk every hard sf writer runs is having people see at leisure that logically things must be that he didn't think of. After it's too late to do anything about it but retcon (yuck) or say 'you got me.' That this *will* happen doesn't make the attempt to create an internally consistent world less worthwhile. After all, The Ringworld is Unstable! :) My particular favorite consequence of OGREverse assumptions has to do with the other uses for itty bitty nukes. If they're small, clean and cheap enough for promiscious use, Orion nuclear-pulse propulsion is very attracative. Even the original study, only using Fat Man class fission bombs, led to a design that would be built like and mass what a capital warship does. With advanced nuke 'pulse units' and BPC, a large ship could laugh off OGREverse lasers. The uberunits wouldn't be cybertanks, they'd be spacegoing dreadnoughts. Combine and Paneuro Lagrange settlements were told to destroy each other, but GO specifically doesn't say what happened to the colonies... Perhaps the Factory States try to expand into space and find that there are previous claimants who don't greet them with open arms. ============================== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: Battlesuit: Snipers Just a quick rundown on some of the gear being used by military snipers, and some of the more experimental gear under development. The French (yes the frogs) have been using a 12.7mm and a 20mm Hungarian sniper rifles for the last few years. They are primary used in the anti-material role (light armored vehicles, aircraft, power generation equipment, communications equipment). They also have a system allowing to snipers to synchronize their shots. It's a small computer that allows multiple snipers to fire at the exact same moment, and all rounds to impact simultaneously. The US Army's working on a fabric that would automatically change colors depending on the terrain, and the amount of light hitting it. The Australians have been experimenting with drugs to troop endurance, suppress appetite, and slow down things like bowl movements. I imagine that 100 years from now some type of small caliber hyper velocity round would be in use. Snipers would still work in pairs. Each man would be equipped with an electronic ghillie or stealth suit, that makes extensive use of ECM. They would probably use some type of stealth drones to both act as decoys and mark their target. Sniper teams would also be used as scouts and forward observers. ===== From: patrick.odonnell@materna.de Subject: Battlesuit: Snipers --Stephen Blount-- >...The difference will probably be the presence of a specialized sniper round... Do you mean something like that round that Gene Simons' character had in the movie *Runaway*? You know, that round that got the *Heart Rate Frequency* of a single individual fed into its guidance systems through the appurtenant weapon's *Aiming system.* That round that, "...Literally has your name on it?" KEW-el. I like it. --Kirk Hunt-- > ... Which I think will involve some sort of stealth battlesuit ... ala Preadator ... OH YEAH! The only question is which side captures a Predator first? Predators do, after all, hunt species who *Hunt Themselves* (i.e. Humans and Aliens). I think the *Endless War* idea of the Ogreverse is enough to attract a few Predators looking for trophies. A Predator-Alien-Ogreverse *Homebrew* scenario? How incredibly hinky. I'm on it! I'll post it when I get it done and, I have made sure that I am not stepping on any copyrights. --David Evans-- > ... I remember reading that the M-60 Support Machine Gun was only ever issued to the largest strongest grunts because... Actually, they solved this problem (...or at least the U.S. Marine Corp did ...I have no other service experience...) by issuing a tripod mount with the weapon instead of a bipod. I actually got to do 100 rounds of familiarization fire with one in MCRD (Boot Camp). When mounted on a tripod the things are actually very easy to handle. You are right about the weight thingy, though. They are pigs to have to carry. ... (anyone any idea of the size of ... Yes, 7.62mm NATO ... not .6 Cal. > You mean a free cold compress with every Big Gun (tm)? {8~)} Yes, that is exactly what I mean. >... Remember the kinetic energy of an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by the velocity SQUARED ... even a 4mm Du round would give you a lot of mass to play with... It follows, then, that ALL other variables being equal a bigger round does more damage. (Yes, I do realize the physical ramifications of such a statement.) SO, if you are going to play around with gauss or railguns anyway why stay at 4mm? I have to stick by the statement in my last post. The sniper of the future will not carry anything smaller than .50 Cal (12.7mm). Best, Pat ============================== From: Stephan Beal Subject: GEV-WW and "range" of effect > From: Michael Powers > How about something like this...the GEV-WW can protect a certain > maximum "size" of units, say up to six "size classes" of units. That > could be three twos, two threes, a four and two ones, etc. These > units can be anywhere within one hex of the GEV-WW. I like that idea. Then again, I can't see a "jamming beam" being directed at a specific unit to defend it, especially in a way which doesn't interfere with it's own ECM. Of course, PD could be used to selectively protect anyone. But, as Henry states a couple of mails back, using PD to defend a guy who's almost a mile off (in the next hex, I mean) is a bit far-fetched. Perhaps with lasers, but what are you going to burn down between you and the guy you're defending? As flat as the GEV map is, I don't see anyone getting a mile-long line-of-sight shot with a laser from anything but an elavated tower or a Very good position atop the highest hills. I believe the assumption is that "clear" terrain can also be slightly-rolling hills, and it doesn't take more than one small hill to block that PD laser from knocking a rocket out of the sky just 1km away. The rockets don't fly 1/2 mile up, after all, but skim the surface (I would assume, anyway, or they could be shot down from 50 miles or more). > From: David Evans > IIRC, the Orge Ninja had *lots* of electronics to give it an > ECM/ECCM "edge", which made it's opponents take one off of > the result of any roll against it on the CRT. I don't have > the rules to hand, so someone else can confirm it. -1 to all attack rolls against it except from infantry in an overrun, I believe. > I would suggest perhaps > placing it in a Heavy or a Superheavy Frame, keep the > movement and Defense the same but have zero Attack Strength > instead. How does that sound? I could see that as being feasible, though I would keep at least a 1-point gun on it, just so those poor little paper soldiers don't feel Too inadequate. >> But how to limit its effect so that its interesting? >> Adjacent hexes seems too much, single hex seems to little. >> When it doubt, show restraint. We can always reduce the >> cost if no one ever uses them. > Having a effect like the Ninja's (or whatever else take > your fancy) in just the one hex seems a bit too paltry > really. With each hex being 1km (1.2? 1.4?), that's quite a range. The US military spends bazillions of $ just making one jet stealthy. I can't even imagine what they're pay for being able to cloak an area more than a mile across (granted, the stealth level isn't the same, but the potential for cutting losses is tremendous). > My suggestion would be a GEV-HQ type vehicle with M3/2, D3 > or 4 (accounting for the ECM/ECCM helping it some) and zero > Attack Strength, giving a helping hand to friendly units > over a two hex range. Cost? I'm not sure. How about 3 > Armour units or 18 points? Over a two-hex range? Let's assume a conservative 1 unit per hex being protected, not including the centerpoint, where we'll place the ECM unit. That's 18 units with this capability (with a maximum, stacked, of 64 units!). Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the ECM ability is worth 6 VP (I'm guessing - this is not a real number). Since the ability is conveyed to other units, it only makes sense to multiply the cost times some average number of expected-to-be-protected units. Times 18... 108 VPs, and that's near the lower-end of the scale. That's, what, 9 armor units (and that's just the _conveyed_ ECM protection value)? > Alternatively, you could put it into a SHVY frame with > stats, M3, D5, Ataack zero. Defensive bonus over a two hex > range and a cost of four or five units (24/20 points) seeing > as it has a higher Defense value. I can see the name of the tank, painted quite clearly in big red letters: "ECM^2" > Whaddya think? Go ahead, shoot me down in flames. No, not > literally... I love the idea of the ECM unit, but I think even a one hex range is extending it into the realm of Warhammer, and not semi-hard-science fiction. ----- Stephan Beal Generic IT Guy - stephan.beal@einsurance.de - http://www.einsurance.de Office: +49 (89) 552 92 862 Handy: +49 (179) 211 97 67 "You know that we shall meet again, if your memory serves you well." -- Bob Dylan ============================== From: Robert Gurskey Subject: GEV Paintjobs Steve Jackson's comment in the Ogre book that "you don't drive a GEV but fly it" made me think that GEV's should be painted like fighter planes. In particular, aircraft from WWI. The French SPAD was flow by the French, British, Italians, Belgians and Americans with some very interesting paintjobs. In particular the rudder was generally painted in the three colors of the national insigna. I think Paneuropean GEV engine pods could be triple striped in the same fashion. Plus the French, Italians and Americans had very interesting squadron insignas. I don't know where you could put the roundels but the post-war Polish checkerboard and the simple black square from Turkey would be easy to make and apply. Does anyone have the patience for a sharkmouth on Combine GEVs? I don't know if present-day armored companies have unit insignas, but some of the bomber squadron insignas from WWI would look good on Combine mobile howitzers (that smooth turret side is so inviting). Robert ============================== Henry J. Cobb ogre@sjgames.com Archives at http://www.io.com/~hcobb All OGRE-related items Copyright (c) 2001, by Steve Jackson Games.