====== Ogre Digest, April 19th (Last: April 18th) ======== ===== Killing tailgaters From: "Hunt, Kirk (Tucson)" ===== Ogre Program From: goldman@visi.com (Goldman of Chaos) ===== Ogre Program From: Nyrath the nearly wise ===== Another list of new vehicles. From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com ============================== From: "Hunt, Kirk (Tucson)" Subject: Killing tailgaters >From: Nyrath the nearly wise > >In the old OGRE computer program, the AI was stupid enough that >it couldn't handle the old "tailgater" ploy. > >That is, if you got your armored units *behind* the Ogre, >you could move in close, shoot, and the Ogre AI would blindly >go running to the CP, which would make your armored units out >of the Ogre's weapon range (very similar to GEV strategy). >Repeat until the Ogre dies. As I recall, the OGRE WOULD swat them if it thought it enough of a pay off for doing so. At any rate, if I were the Ogre, I would kill tailgaters, if 1) getting to the CP depends on it. 2) the likelihood of getting to the CP goes up and I don't have to increase my distance to the CP, or 3) the likelihood of getting to the CP, then getting off the board, goes up. Example: A platoon or two of Heavies, without Howitzer support, is chewing on me. I forgo my next move toward the CP to hold still and beat them up. Once they are all dead or disabled, I continue my march, since those pesky, but tasty, battlesuits are continuing to advance... Variant: Missile Tanks. I might have to advance on them to get to range. If they retreat or scatter, I A) chase the "gettable" victims or B) move toward the CP, leaving them far afield. Variant again: I stay or even back up some to slaughter units I know won't keep me from getting to the CP, but MIGHT keep me from leaving the board. Desertcat Purveyor of Pulse Rifles "Hivlocs-R-Us" ===== [GEVs have the best tailgate parties, but generally when the Ogre is too slow to outrun the Missile Tanks, it's too slow to catch them, if you ALWAYS kill the mains before munching on treads. (Speed two plus range two for the secondaries would get exactly one Missle Tank per turn into range, while you're running the wrong way.) -HJC] ============================== From: goldman@visi.com (Goldman of Chaos) Subject: Ogre Program Henry J. Cobb said the following... > > [So you are writing a new game for your own personal enjoyment based on > your experience with the old offical PC game and have no intention of > sharing it with anybody, correct? -HJC] Actually I'm writing the unattended behavor mode for the new Crusader Weapons system Platform, and we're using Ogre Miniatures to test run the code. :-) Sorry, couldn't resist. Seriously, the Cursader Weapons system is really neat, part of the design is refueling and restocking in a hostile enviroment. No one has to exit either vehicle! Later, Matt ===== [So that's why the Missile Tanks never run out of ammo. -HJC] ===== From: Nyrath the nearly wise Subject: Ogre Program > [So you are writing a new game for your own personal enjoyment > based on your experience with the old offical PC game and have no > intention of sharing it with anybody, correct? -HJC] Absolutely. If Mr. Jackson wants to distribute it, that's different. But I wouldn't dream of infringing on his copyright or cutting into his razor thin profits that are endemic to the gaming industry. The trouble with a computer program is that it is different from a game aid or a game assistant. That is, instead of *enhancing* the game, it *replaces* the game. Not good from a the standpoint of the game seller. A case might be made for a program that was an "ogre brain in a box". So, for instance, a miniature player who had nobody to play with could move the miniatures on the map, input the moves into the computer, and have it tell him where to move the Ogre and what to fire at. But that is probably more trouble than it is worth. Hey, I feel kind of protective to the Ogre franchise myself. I was there at the dawn of the Third Age of Tank-kind... ============================== From: Sumnerd1234@cs.com Subject: Another list of new vehicles. Henry J. Cobb wrote: > I am so sorry to hear that I may have offended anybody. You would really have to try to offend me. > I thought everybody realized this is just a game. What, it is? > Surely nuclear weapons will never again be used and computers will stop > getting faster any day now and so there won't be any demand for > additional robotic weapon systems and after all there's not going to be > any more wars to use them in anyway. > So the fall of man will never happen and everybody will together in peace > happily ever after. Right? Of course. If we all just hold hands and sing, and sing praises unto me, Razada al Baba, everything will be all right. Birds will sing, the sun will shine, and peace and happiness will reign throughout the world. Hold on a second.... Someone's coming into my room. What's that doctor? No, I didn't take my pills this morning. But my friend and I were just discussing world peace. Hey...let go, I'm telling you I don't need that shot. Noooo....... Seriously though, no offense was taken. I try to keep to much realism out of my gaming, If I want real life danger, death, and destruction I can go to work. Grant A. Ladue wrote: > I like the other weapons systems (especially the light Ogre missiles), > but I always have problems with Ogre-Missile->Tank systems. If it was > possible for Israel to develop this kind of system, then surely the > Combine/PE/Nihon could have managed it. It's sufficiently powerful that > they would have employed such a system if they could have, especially on > the larger/later Ogres. I don't see why they couldn't either. I just figure SJ either never thought about it, or never got around to working up the stats and play testing them. > They really need some kind of handicap that explains why no one else used > them. Why not give them a defense of 1? The explanation can be that the > large number of "missile tubes" in close proximity were impossible to > armor above a defense of 1, and that flaw was sufficient to keep these > systems off of the major power's Ogres. The Israeli's were in need of as > much offense as possible on a limited number of Ogres, so they employed > these despite their flaws. > This is the kind of explanation I like to employ for variant Ogre's, but > these are just fine as is if you're not into "historical context" like I > am. As I've said, before, whatever works for you, as long as it's fun. ===== [The system parameters have always been rather funky. Ever since GEV came out we've had the MHWZ mounting a better weapon than the Missile Rack, without the excuse of being a fixed installation. A true Ogre design system is going to have to handwave this off by showing the MHWZ and Missile Tank weapon systems to be too heavy and fragile for placement on an Ogre. -HJC] List Moderator: Henry J. 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