====== OGRE Digest, January 26th, 2003 (Last: January 20th) ======== ===== Is luck too important in Ogre? From: "Chris French" From: "Peter Lomax" ===== Carrier games From: "Chris French" ===== Deluxe OGRE and GEV maps... From: "Chris French" ===== Fencer costs From: paulgrogan@btopenworld.com ===== Feedback over map questions From: reaper28i ===== The new Ogre book From: paulgrogan@btopenworld.com ===== NAC Army info From: "Dominique Sumner" ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Is luck too important in Ogre? > From: AvaheilDotter@aol.com > Change the CRT to a 2d6 chart. Does not eliminate it, but makes luck > much rarer than a straight D6... I had to do the math to figure probabilities for 2d6 rolls once (hint: It was for another SJG product... :) ), and I can safely say using 2d6 doesn't quite work. A 1d6 roll's probability graph is a straight line, while a 2d6 roll is an S-curve; thus, a +1 to Attack or Defense doesn't always actually equal +1. > [SFBism. Similar to a large combined attack in GEV. -HJC] Thank you. ===== From: "Peter Lomax" Subject: Is luck too important in Ogre? > Go ahead, mock it all you want, but the fact remains it is much less > sensitive to exceptional rolls ruining the game. It is a counter-example > to your assertion that "pretty much any wargame with dice is dependent on > how the dice roll". Luck is absolutely fundamental. Bad luck exposes tactical flaws and good luck favours the brave. A dice throw can change a game, forcing radical thinking and cause strategic shifts of emphasis. I think a good commander is the one who responds better to bad rolls. In war things never, ever go to the original plan - rescuing the situation from dice induced SNAFU is a great way to improve. Peter Lomax http://surf.to/hawkmoon ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Carrier games > From: reaper28i > I agree the RN needs more carriers! But as for the reasons behind not > losing more ships.........So our Sea Harriers and our pilots who knew how > to fight (and fly) them didn't put the fear of god into the Argentines? Considering the way the Argentines folded up in that conflict, I think the fear of God was put into them the moment they set foot on the transports. Of course -- and I hate to be quite so blunt about this, but it's historical fact -- Spain, Portugal, and areas settled by those two nations are notoriously poor fighters. I think Horatio Nelson said it best, when he was informed that the Spanish would be providing Napoleon with ships-of-the-line: "I take it for granted not manned, as that would be the fastest way to lose them." > Sorry for that outburst of patriotism :) You're forgiven. We still have uses for an unsinkable aircraft carrier off the coast of Europe. :) > From: "Peter Lomax" > Considering the Brits could only use what they took with them halfway > across the world, and that Argentina was a short hop to a well-defended > island base; I don't think it was a thwacking. > The Brits suffered most against very determined and insanely brave aerial > opposition - think bombs not missiles. > That is the argument for a super-carrier. What happened to the Brits in the Falklands is not an argument for a supercarrier -- it is an argument for having a decent-sized merchant marine whose ships are easily converted to supply ships for a military force that's otherwise hell-and-gone from its base of support. > From: Servitor@aol.com > Without rehashing the Israeli infantry-carrier Ogre or similar beasts TOO > much, that's a nice idea that hasn't been considered for awhile. That's why I brought up the Golem-PC in the first place. :) > Back to the subject; I would like to see some MK I, II and III hulls > modified with people's ideas about carrying possibilities. Drones, > infantry and even armor units. There could be larger "variant" hulls, > but MK IVs and higher were produced in much smaller numbers, with > correspondingly less hulls > available for "special purpose" variants. Of course specially built hulls > are possible, but wouldn't really be cannon. One problem here -- the Mk.s 1-3 were small (relatively), and didn't have much room for carrying anything besides the "offic- ial" loadouts. As the flavor text has mentioned, the Mk. 1 isn't much bigger than a SHVY, and IIRC the Mk. 2 isn't much bigger; only the Mk. 3 has anything like "leftover" space. If "special" units were built, it's more likely they'd come from damaged examples of line units. > Having just said that, here's my take on a monster "carrier" Ogre. > (Definitely non-cannon) > > CSO (Continental Siege Ogre) Umm, what size class is this *&^%$#@! thing? > 1 SMB* A6, R8, D5 > 3 Missile Racks D3 > 12 Missiles A6, R5 > 12 Antipersonnel A1,R1, D1 > Carrier Bay Capacity: 6 Armor Units > Additional INF Capacity: 2 Platoons (6 squads) > 60 Treads starting at 3 MA > Point Value: ?? Beats me! But so far I'm thinking about 125 pts. > (Obviously, this doesn't include the cost of the occupants of its carrier > bay) It would be nice if someone would publish a Cobb Formula for OGREs, hint, hint, hint. :) (I mean other than the downloadable one -- I prefer to do such work by hand.) [Then read http://www.io.com/~hcobb/gev/2001/gevoct31.txt for a halloween treat. -HJC] > Notes: *SMB (Super Main Battery). Basically, a HWZ strapped into a MB barbette? > And if anyone has an old collection of T-Rex miniatures, you know exactly > where I got the idea from for this beast... I've never even heard of this game. Explain? ============================== From: "Chris French" Subject: Deluxe OGRE and GEV maps... > From: stephan beal > > > i generally use large picture frames for my maps. My dining room table has > a glass top which i also keep maps under - simply clear the table [no pun > intended] and it's ready for play. Not all of us have the money or space for glass-topped coffee or dinner tables. (I don't, for one. ) CF ============================== From: paulgrogan@btopenworld.com Subject: Fencer costs For us players of original OGRE/GEV, not the miniatures version, is there an official armour point value for the Fencer and Fencer-B. The original Fencer was 24 armour units, so I'm not sure what the new variants are worth. Thanks, Paul Grogan www.runestonegames.com ============================== From: reaper28i Subject: Feedback over map questions Thanks for your feedback guys. I too was thinking along the lines of a sheet of perspex or glass on top of the maps. Maybe I'll try and find a friend with a large scanner so I can have a "gaming" copy of the maps. That way I'll not have to keep re-folding them after a session. I do have a novice OGRE question for you. OGRE missiles are individual one-shot weapons. Am I correct in assuming that a Mk.III can fire its two missiles together in a single turn to give two separate attacks on the same target (wasteful, but if that first one is a D..) or indeed use each missile to target a different unit? Cheers, Mark. ===== [Yes, it has two independent one shot missile launchers. The two missiles can be fired together or separately at the same time or different times. -HJC] ============================== From: paulgrogan@btopenworld.com Subject: The new Ogre book This is for the list: Hi all, I was reading last night the new OGRE Book, which I got when it came out, just never got round to reading it. I found the article about Shockwave and read the authors suggested rules change to fix the loophole in the getting off at the end of the turn and getting back on at the start of next turn. Anyway, I closed this loophole a long time ago, so thought I'd post my optional rules here. SJ accepted the rules change but commented that it was a bit clunky, mine isn't (not suggesting its any better - its just not clunky) Its really simple. Infantry can only get on a vehicle at the end of their turn, but can get off at any time. They cannot move on their own on the turn they get off. Nice and simple, and closes the loophole. Comments anyone? Just out of interest, my other house rule is that crossing a stream is 1MP, rather than the having to wait a turn. Slightly alters some scenarios but plays a lot better IMHO. Finally, a question. Since putting the SHVY up to D5, has anyone else found that it is a bit too tough? Again, referring back to the article in the OGRE Book, it goes on about the SHVY, but the comments are made for the old version and no note is made to say that. SJ mentions in an editors comment that they now have higher defence, but when it talks about how to kill SHVY's, it's talking about the old version. Paul Grogan MiB 0307 www.runestonegames.com ===== [The new Superheavy is worth at least 13 VPs. Against non-Ogre targets take as many as you can afford. -HJC] ============================== From: "Dominique Sumner" Subject: NAC Army info Once again I’ve got way to much free time on my hands, so…. I came up with this little ditty. It’s a list of combat jobs available to troops serving in the NAC Army, and a little info on the training they receive. It’s roughly based on actual jobs currently available in today’s US Army. In the modern day US Army your job is known as your Military Occupational Specialty, or MOS. MOS’s are broken down into several categories: Combat Arms - the guys that fight, Combat Support - the guys that provide essential support to combat units (commo, intel, medical, MP, chemical), and Combat Service Support - the bullets and beans people (quarter masters, transport, personnel, finance). For the moment I’m sticking with combat arms, but if I get a positive response I’ll expand the list and go into more detail. I figured it would be fun to list out some of the jobs I think would be available, and possibly throw out some ideas for any GURPS OGRE players. Combat Arms Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) Infantry: - Power Armor Infantryman - Heavy Weapons Infantryman - Reconnaissance Scout - Ranger Field Artillery: - Fire Support Specialist (Forward Observer) - Cannon/Howitzer Crewmember - Tracked Missile System Crewmember - Self-propelled Gun Crewmember Aerospace Defense: - Aerospace Defense Specialist a) Beam Weapon Systems (Laser Tower operators) b) Rail Gun Systems (the guys that would operate & service point defense systems) c) Anti- Ballistic/ Aerospace Defense Missile Systems d) Man Portable Aerospace Defense Systems (MANPADS) Engineers: - Combat Engineer (Sapper) - Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) Armor: - Armored Vehicle Crewmember a) Light Tanks b) Heavy Tanks c) Super Heavy Tanks Cavalry: - GEV Pilot - Cavalry Scout (LGEV) - Dismounted Cavalry Scout Special Forces: - Special Forces Communications NCO - Special Forces Engineer NCO - Special Forces Medical NCO - Special Forces Weapons NCO Training All soldiers entering into a combat arms MOS undertake ten weeks of Basic Combat Training (BCT) at one of seven initial processing locations: Ft. Jackson, SC; Ft. Benning, GA; Ft. Knox, KY; Ft. Sill, OK; Ft. Leonardwood, MO; Saint-Jean, Quebec, Canada; or Mexico. During BCT, or “Basic” recruits are introduced to life in the NAC Army. They are given instruction in basic military customs and courtesies, history, physical training, hand to hand combat, basic weapons handling, first-aid, basic radio communications, and other skills that will at least give them a chance to survive on the 21st battlefield. During this time they are also carefully monitored by Combine “Morale Officers” for any signs of weakness or sympathy for the enemy. They also look for those recruits displaying traits that would be harmful to the Army (free tinkers, disrespect for authority, laziness, criminal behavior, etc.) Those recruits that don’t meet minimum standards are “recycled” into a new batch of trainees after receiving remedial instruction, or given one of several chemical stimulants to help boost their physical stamina. Recruits who continually fail to meet their trainer’s expectations run the risk of having their brainwaves chemically altered to ones more fitting service in the NAC Army (during the process a small explosive device is implanted as a failsafe measure in case the subject reverts back to his prior activities). Upon successful completion of BCT the recruits undertake specialized training in their MOS. This phase of training is known as Advanced Individual Training or AIT. AIT will vary in length depending on the specific MOS. One thing that will remain constant in all AIT courses is that all combat arms soldiers are expected to be able to fight as basic “straight leg” infantrymen, grunts, if they have to. Infantry AIT - Ft. Benning, GA; Meaford, Ontario, Canada Armor & Cavalry AIT- Ft. Knox, KY Engineer AIT - Ft. Leonardwood, MO Artillery AIT - Ft. Sill, OK Aerospace Defense - Ft. Bliss, TX & Dugway Proving Grounds Special Forces - Ft. Bragg, NC Several specialist courses are also available and they are conducted at various locations. These courses include: Survival - (Basic, Arctic, Jungle, Desert): Washington State, North Carolina, Florida, Utah, Colorado, Alaska, Canada, and Mexico. Jungle Operations - Florida, Mexico Arctic Warfare - Alaska, Canada Desert Warfare - California, Utah Mountain Warfare - Colorado Basic Military Parachute Instruction - Ft. Benning Maritime Operations - Florida, Mexico MOUT (urban combat) - Ft. Polk, LA; Ft. Benning, GA, Ft. Knox, KY Attendance at these schools is usually limited to units deemed to need the extra training (Rangers, Special Forces, units operating in mountainous, arid or arctic areas0. Combine high command views it as a waste of resources to provide troops likely to never have a need for the training, or those they see as cannon fodder to attend. ============================== Send all submissions or mailing list changes or problems to ogre@sjgames.com Archives for this mailing list may be found at http://www.io.com/~hcobb/ General online support for the OGRE game is at http://www.sjgames.com/ogre Ogre, G.E.V., Shockwave and other products mentioned here are trademarks or registered trademarks of Steve Jackson Games. All rights are reserved by SJ Games. This material is used here in accordance with the SJ Games online policy at http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html