Pyramid Chat 03/28/01: David Pulver

David will discuss the GURPS Transhuman Space manuscript and the upcoming playtest. Would-be playtesters are encouraged to attend. The most recent developments in the Transhuman Space line will also be covered.

Ral say, "Log ON."

azathoth says, "I've spent about three hours pasting the things into Word and formatting them into something more attractive and readable than that hasty HTML conversion on Pyramid."

LilFluff has connected.

CraigR says, "Woohoo!"

jdunson says, "So, by the fact that we are all here, are we testing the Playtester character type? :)"

raven says, "howdy folks"

Kromm says, "Hi, David."

dlpulver says, "Hello everyone! This is the pre-playtest Transhuman Space chat."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Ah! How long has been TS been up>?"

Kromm apologizes -- his mouse was stuck and he was fixing it.

dlpulver says, "Transhuman Space has been up since the early hours of this morning."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "To think I wasted my time working and earning money..."

Ral say, "Ooh. Do I get a comp copy for logging this then? ;-)"

KDavidLadage . o O ( THS kicks some major butt! )

dlpulver says, "And the actual playtest will begin on Friday."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Hot Damn!"

Skyrender returns and listens. "Already? Whoa."

NVDaydreamer steps into the elevator.

dlpulver says, "It will run for about a month."

Martinl says, "My comps for Transhuman S[ace haven't arrived yet! ;)"

zhodanihussein says, "ahh cool"

KDavidLadage says, "...and I am already taking notes for that playtest to open..."

dlpulver says, "The author of the book is moi"

Dataweaver [to Martinl]: Give it a rest, please...

Anthony has only 90 lines of collected notes thus far

dlpulver says, "The lead playtester will be John Freiler"

zhodanihussein says, "i guessed that much."

LilFluff hmms and asks naughtily, "So, the rumor it's now just going to be a pokemon in space game?"

dlpulver says, "The editor will be Scott Haring"

JustinSane says, "H'm. This is new. Hi 'gain, Sky.""

mturnage has connected.

raven says, "lead playtester, tha's me."

KDavidLadage . o O ( SDH editor? This seems familiar... )

Ral say, "Scott's on board for this? Nifty."

Skyrender nods to Justin.

dlpulver says, "We have an understudy as well, but he hasn't got back to me..."

dlpulver says, "Which isn't surprising, as I was late in emailing him."

KDavidLadage . o O ( dpulver's understudy = dream job )

SMarsh materializes out of thin air.

raven waves at dataweaver

dlpulver says, "Before we continue on about the playtest, though, I thought I'd mention the other projects."

Dataweaver's energy patterns suddenly disperse.

dlpulver says, "Jonathan Woodward is close to completion of the In the Well book, which will expand on the inner planets from Mercury to Mars, excluding Earth-Luna."

dlpulver says, "It will probably be the next book finished -- much of it was just waiting for this one..."

CraigR says, "Cool"

James has connected -- and there was much rejoicing.

dlpulver says, "Jon Zeigler is doing Fifth Wave, and it looks very good so far. It will focus explicitly on Earth."

Kromm says, "His revised first-draft deadline is mid-April, in fact."

mturnage says, "What is the target date for release?""

Kromm says, "Woodward's revised first-draft deadline is mid-April, that is. Zeigler's is in mid-July."

dlpulver says, "Kromm?"

Kromm says, "Which book do you want a date for, mturnage?"

mturnage says, "The main book, if there is one""

Kromm says, "Tentatively, December 3, 2001."

JFZeigler . o O ( That long? )

KDavidLadage . o O ( cannot wait until December... )

raven . o O ( AWAMC )

Ral . o O ( We may *be* transhuman by then. ;-) )

azathoth says, "December? For the book we're just about to playtest?"

dlpulver says, "Also up is High Frontier. This is an anthology book covering space from Earth Orbit to Luna, and many of the L4/L5 colonies. It will be written by Deirdre Brooks, Dawn Elliot, James Maliszewski, Phil Masters, Gene Seabolt, John Snead, John Zeigler and a little bit by me. Apologies if I missed anyone..."

Kromm says, "Followed by HIGH FRONTIER in January 2002, IN THE WELL in February 2002, THE FIFTH WAVE in April 2002, and THE DEEP BEYOND in May 2002. All tentative."

MarkW says, "Anthology as in game fiction, or adventure ideas?""

coyote6 !

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: azathoth, MarkW"

dlpulver says, "Anthology of multiple authors, like GURPS Y2K or Alternate Earths."

Skyrender says, "I see appendices for spacecraft design and the like. Will TS require GURPS Space for full comprehension? A better question being, what books will you need to properly enjoy GURPS Transhuman Space.""

zhodanihussein says, "so theres gonna be a bunch of books about TS?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: azathoth, Skyrender"

JFZeigler . o O ( Major marketing push. Cool. )

CraigR says, "ALL of them!! Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!"

Ambient energy coalesces into the form of Dataweaver.

dlpulver says, "For Transhuman Space you need Basic Set, Compendium I and this book. BioTech is also useful, but not essential."

dlpulver says, "No other books are necessary in any way."

Dataweaver grumbles

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: azathoth, Skyrender, zhodani"

dlpulver says, "What is Dataweaver grumbling about?"

Dataweaver says, "Call waiting..."

Skyrender says, "Excellent."

CraigR [to dlpulver]: His connection problems

Suddenly and without warning, the unmistakable sound of a Uh-60 Blackhawk is heard overhead. Someone yells 'AIRASSAULT!' and the overhead skylight is smashed to pieces as a camoflauged figure rappels down a rope dropped from the 'Hawk. Anyone looking will recognise the camoed figure as none other than JakeB. He smiles and pushes a button on the remote attached to his LCE. The 'Hawk flies away and all the broken glass rises up to reform the skylight. He takes of his Kpot turns to everyone and says, where's the beer?

CraigR rolls eyes

zhodanihussein says, "oh dear"

coyote6 blinks

JakeB . o O ( Full house again. )

dlpulver says, "In the future that sort of thing will not be possible due to advances in laser weaponry and man-portable railguns."

Rolock flinches

coyote6 laughs.

Kromm says, "Azathoth: Yes, December. It takes about 8 months for a 128-page book to go from first draft to shop shelves, so doing a 176-pager in 9 months is pushing it as is."

Dataweaver laughs.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: zhodani"

Skyrender grins wildly.

particles scattered about the room reach a consensus and coalesce into SwiftOne

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "What will this book's playtesting focus on?"

dlpulver says, "Another book is Deep Beyond, which I will write. It will cover the outer solar system from the Belt to the edge of interstellar space."

zhodanihussein says, "So if i buy TS then i gotta buy a few more books to get the whole thing right?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: til_e, zhodani,"

zhodanihussein says, "like gurps traveller?"

zhodanihussein says, "sorry i tend to blurt"

dlpulver says, "You can play with the core, but it's a line. We hope the core book will let you start playing right away. If you playtest, it will be your job to tell me if won't."

KDavidLadage says, "Any chance that the main book will be released in Hardcover at some point? Like G:Traveller?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: zhodani, KDL"

dlpulver says, "That's a production decision best asked of folks like Phil Read."

LilFluff wonders. You've mentioned before realistic nanotechnology and MEMS. How much will this be talked about & described. Bibliography/suggested sources to be included?

Dataweaver says, "What are you looking for from the playtesters?"

Kromm says, "I can say with reasonable confidence that the hardcover route is being considered *if* (and only if) the economics allow."

dlpulver says, "I suspect that the cleaner the product after playtest, the better the chance. If we can guarantee near-zero errata, there's a fair likelihood."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: LilFluff, Dataweaver"

azathoth says, "From the looks of it, the core book is fairly dense. Lots of goodies in one package."

coyote6 [to Til_Eulenspiegel]: ?

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: LilFluff, Dataweaver, coyote6"

Kromm says, "'The economics allow' = distributors would be willing to preorder lots of copies at the higher price. Enough copies that the print buying is tenable."

dlpulver says, "You definitely do not need space or any of the tech books to understand it. I say this with some sorrow, as I get royalties if you buy all the tech books."

raven says, "we've already got 'em"

JakeB says, ":)"

Skyrender snickers.

KDavidLadage . o O ( I already _own_ all the tech books... )

dlpulver says, "BioTech, however, is part of the transhuman space setting, and in fact some of the material in BioTech is set in Transhuman Spaces' _future_."

coyote6 says, "So buy all the tech books. Several times!"

Dataweaver . o O ( so _that's_ why he does so many high-tech settings... )

zhodanihussein says, "mortgage your home lol"

MarkW [to Kromm]: = What about a special order situation like Russia?

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: LilFluff, Dataweaver, coyote6, MarkW"

Skyrender blinks. "You mean, like the sidebar examples of transhumans from Biotech?"

Kromm [to MarkW]: Never again, sorry. That simply failed.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: LilFluff, Dataweaver, coyote6, MarkW, Skyrender,"

dlpulver says, "I'll include a technical biography. It was delayed while we discussed how we'd handle web citations."

dlpulver says, "To some extent, yes."

LilFluff says, "Not to worry, I've pretty much adopted a buy-on-site policy for any book with "Pulver" listed on the cover, and a price <= $20 (and look at seriously even if over $20)"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Dataweaver, coyote6, Skyrender, (I think)"

jdunson says, "In brief, what *was* the final decision on the web citations?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Dataweaver, coyote6, Skyrender, jdunson"

dlpulver says, "In brief, we'll refer you to a SJG web page, which will have the citations there. That way it can be easily updated."

Kromm [to jdunson]: The biblio will not contain any web citations. It will only contain the URL of the TS page on

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Dataweaver, coyote6, Skyrender,"

JakeB agrees with LilFluff, but still looks at the book first :)

dlpulver says, "I'll be discussing the playtest in a little bit. First, have many of you read the book or skimmed it?"

dlpulver says, "(TS, not biotech)"

coyote6 says, "Yup"

Holschuh says, "I did"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "First I knew it was up. Read all the logs."

SwiftOne says, "Very light skim so far. Killed a lot of trees though :)"

azathoth says, "Skimmed. Very quickly."

CraigR says, "I just saw that the files were up, so I haven't (yet)"

MarkW says, "Is it up yet?""

jdunson says, "Read the main chapters, skimmed the equip/vehicles/combat"

JakeB says, "Never saw it in person"

KDavidLadage says, "I have skimmed all, and am going through the timeline in detail now..."

Skyrender says, "Not yet. I assume the files include a synopsis of the concept/theme/setting."

coyote6 says, "i've read the tech & character chapters & skimmed several of the others"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Dataweaver, coyote6, Skyrender, til_e,"

JustinSane says, "Skimming it now, as a matter of fact....""

Dolarre has connected.

dlpulver says, "Okay, cool."

Martinl read first chapter and skimmed the rest

Skyrender hasn't been reading the boards lately, so he didn't know it was coming. ^^; "And I think David already caught my question, Til."

griffin has connected.

coyote6 says, "IIRC, one of the planned books was about Earth's oceans -- is that still on the schedule?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Dataweaver, coyote6, til_e,"

MarkW says, "Just got it...there's not alink from the main playtest page""

Kromm [to coyote6]: Yes. BLUE SHADOW. But it is not yet scheduled or anything like that.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Dataweaver, til_e,"

dlpulver says, "I hope to write it, but may hand it off to a freelancer"

dlpulver says, "The other non-scheduled book is BROKEN DREAMS, a second Earth book, that will cover all the nasty non-shiny stuff."

jdunson says, "I was expecting a bit more ocean colonization sooner, myself; one of my Qs is why not?"

SwiftOne says, "MarkW: The main playtesting page hasn't been updated in quite a few playtests. Just check the playtesting files page."

dlpulver says, "In general, the model for the core rules book was GURPS Traveller. "

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson"

Rolock looks over the playtest files from a small reader pad he pulls from his jacket

coyote6 says, "FWIW, the specific URL is "

Skyrender hasn't seen that - guess he will now. =)

dlpulver says, "I think it's time to discuss playtesting now."

CraigR reads the first parapgraph of chapter 1 and damn near sh*ts hisself! "Oh, I'm gonna LOVE this setting!"

raven says, "sound good"

SwiftOne says, "I hope it is better. G:Traveller was NOT geared to the player unfamiliar with Traveller."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL,"

Anthony has disconnected.

dlpulver says, "The first thing I'd like to emphasize is that this _is_ part of a series."

zhodanihussein has disconnected.

Rolock begins to grin wildly as he reads through the text

dlpulver says, "The core book is designed as an introduction. It cannot cover everything in detail, but it will hopefully cover the basic themes and let people start playing."

SwiftOne says, "Series==Good. My group swore off GURPS when they couldn't get any worldbooks. I've convinced them to playtest this."

raven says, "but it's got to stand alone, yes?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL, raven"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Do you want the setting playtested more than the rules?"

dlpulver says, "Yep. If you find anything in it that doesn't make sense, or is not clear, let me know."

JakeB [to Til_Eulenspiegel]: ?

dlpulver says, "I want both playtested."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL, raven, til_e, JakeB"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "I probably will convert TS to FUDGE or BESM first thing."

Kromm says, "Yes. We are pitching this mainly as a setting, so hammering too much on the tech rules is missing the point."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Does that affect my ability to help playtest?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Besides the obvious."

raven [to Til_Eulenspiegel]: what?

Dataweaver has reconnected.

dlpulver says, "Another important issue:there isn't a great deal of room to add extra details to the core book. It's already pretty packed. BUT because we're evolving the setting -- it's notall set in stone -- if you have suggestions that would relate to the core book, but not fit in the core, then by all means make them.""

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL, raven, JakeB"

Dataweaver grumbles again and asks, "Did I miss the answer to my question?"

dlpulver says, "We will institute some specific tags that relate directly to this. E.G., "HF" for a comment you think is extra detail that would fit well in the High Frontier space colony book."

Kromm [to Til_Eulenspiegel]: Since testing the setting is at least as important as testing the rules, the system you plan to use is not all that relevant.

coyote6 [to Til_Eulenspiegel]: Just as long as it allows skull cats.

dlpulver says, "GURPS is already fairly well tested... "

dlpulver says, "Another thing I would like to see tested: reality checking"

dlpulver says, "Transhuman Space is intended to be fairly hard science. "

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "For Transhuman Space? Isn't that oxymoronic?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "You need transhumans to test transhuman concepts. "

MarkW says, "Ghu its nice to see a designer say that and mean it.""

Ral will reality check any catgirl bioroids.

dlpulver says, "Sure."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Kind of like asking chimps to do literary criticsm (sp?)"

JFZeigler snorts.

dlpulver says, "But What I do need checked is the real world data -- like the planet statistics."

Skyrender cracks up at Ral.

SJ materializes out of thin air.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Oh. I get it."

KDavidLadage says, "Why was Halley's Comet left out of the history, timeline and the solar system sections? Seems a regular like that should be there."

Kromm says, "The solar system itself will be the same in TS as the one you live in now, after all."

dlpulver says, "If blew the metric conversion to miles conversion and Jupiter's orbit is wrong, or the gravity of pluto is off, or whatever, please let me know!"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL, raven, JakeB, Dataweaver"

dlpulver says, "Likewise, if my explanation of cryptography and public keys is wrong, or quantum computers, tell me. Some things may be fudged for story purposes, but we don't want to get our facts wrong."

coyote6 . o O ( Someone stole it in 2062? )

AdamJ connects, steel chair in hand. The barbed wire bat can't be far away. . .

CraigR's only questions are playtest-related, and they'll wait until he's read all the files.

Rolock . o O ( Ice Pirates... )

SwiftOne says, "Is pluto still a planet or not?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL, raven, JakeB, Dataweaver, SwiftOne"

griffin has disconnected.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL, raven, JakeB, SwiftOne"

dlpulver says, "The same with a few treatments of ideas. Our discourse on memes may be designed for gaming, but if the concept doesn't ring true, tell us. If the setting's capsule description of anarcho-capitalism is offensive to anarcho-capitalists, I'd like to know before going into print. Etc."

dlpulver says, "Read the manuscript SwiftOne, it's covered."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL, raven, JakeB"

SwiftOne says, "Cool"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: jdunson, KDL, raven, JakeB, MarkW"

dlpulver says, "DavidLadage, if Halley's comet seems relevant and you know where it is 2100, bring it up in the playtest. That's what I'm llooking for."

Rolock steps into the elevator.

CraigR says, "The only RL book on Memes I've read is THE MEME MACHINE, but I'll do some comparison..."

KDavidLadage says, "Will do. Like I said, I have a file for notes on this setting. All looks very good so far."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: raven, JakeB, MarkW"

Kromm says, "But bear in mind our space limitations! We cannot catalog every moon, never mind every comet and asteroid with a name."

Dataweaver says, "Did I hear something about the files already being up? I can't seem to find them..."

vitruvian has connected.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Seems like a pointer to real-world emphermeris is in order."

dlpulver says, "It may be more relevant for the Deep Beyond, which will cover the outer system and comets in detail. That's why I'd like people to tag querries of that sort with a tag for the sequel book."

MarkW . o O ( )

CraigR [to Dataweaver]:

CraigR . o O ( Oops. )

JFZeigler . o O ( Put Redshift 3 in the tech bibliography. . . )

Kromm says, "The files are linked to the general playtest area:"

dlpulver says, "I will do so, JFZ"

Til_Eulenspiegel . o O ( "Xemphemeris is free...and runs on Linux. )

dlpulver says, "Aside from reality checking, things that really need checking: the character stats, and the vehicle system."

MarkW [to Til_Eulenspiegel]: = Have a link for that?

dlpulver says, "I do not want a situation where a year from now people tell me there are holes in the vehicle rules and we need to redo everything. These have to be perfect first time through. I'll double check, but I'd like help!"

Rolock steps out of the elevator.

Skyrender vows to read the chapters later - right now, he can't pay attention to both rooms. ^^;

MarkW . o O ( If only the WotC StarWars team felt that )

dlpulver says, "Playtesters who can run through the system and design a bunch of samples may (a) see them used in later books and (b) earn my gratitude."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: raven, JakeB, MarkW (I think)"

dlpulver says, "Incidentally, I'd like to say a quick thank-you to Anthony Jackson, and also to MA Lloyd, for pre-playtest assistance on the spaceship design and combat rules. Thanks muchly!"

Skyrender says, "David, having not looked at the vehicles rules yet, how do they vary from the rules in GURPS Vehicles? More/less realistic?"

Rolock melts into a puddle of black liquid

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: raven, JakeB, MarkW, Skyrender"

dlpulver says, "The vehicle rules -- more specificaly, the spaceship rules -- are intended to be extremely realistic."

dlpulver says, "(There's no specific vehicles rules here as such... "

Kromm says, "David kept asking me odd mathematical questions, so I trust him on this :)"

dlpulver says, "While still playable. They are a vehicles-derived optimized modular design system like in GURPS Traveller, but with a number of changes intended to make them a bit more realistic and setting-based."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: raven, JakeB, MarkW, Martinl"

MarkW says, "Any chance of getting simplified design rules, ala BESM?"

dlpulver says, "They emphasize reaction drives, gravity spin, ship geometry -- for the purpose of building reasonably realistic colonies -- and things not previously covered, like radiation and heat."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: raven, JakeB, MarkW, Martinl, MarkW (2),"

Skyrender says, "Colonies? Excellent. =) Thanks."

dlpulver says, "Not really, Mark. But these are fairly simple by Vehicles standards. They're just more realistic. The robots ARE done in simple format."

MarkW says, "Gotcha. Can live with that""

Kromm [to Skyrender]: HIGH FRONTIER will be a whole book on colonies . . . all different kinds.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: raven, JakeB, Martinl,"

SwiftOne raises his hand

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: raven, JakeB, Martinl, SwiftOne, KDavidLadage"

jdunson says, "The radiators addition fixes at one of the worst Space/Vehicles unrealities in a fairly simple manner. Kudos. Although calculator still active on details."

Shatavari foos off.

dlpulver says, "I think I'm losing track of the question que -- sorry Til!"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: raven, JakeB, Martinl, SwiftOne, KDavidLadage"

Kromm says, "BTW, people whose questions have scrolled off their screen should repeat."

Kromm says, "I for one cannot get my client to stay scrolled back when new typing appears :)"

dlpulver says, "If we can hold questions for a minute until I finish running through my playtest requests, that would be good"

CraigR [to Kromm]: Using the Java client?

LilFluff needs to go..

LilFluff has disconnected.

dlpulver says, "So, to quick summarize: 1) Suggestions for expanding the setting are welcome, but should be tagged in relation to whichever sequel they relate to. "

raven [to Til_Eulenspiegel]: take me off the que

dlpulver says, "2) Please help reality check things like the planets"

vitruvian says, "Quick question on electrolasers. 27 and 54 kilojoules seems like an awful lot of energy not to have the potential for lasting harm..."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: JakeB, Martinl, SwiftOne, KDavidLadage, vitruvian"

dlpulver says, "3) I am especially eager for help on the spaceship design and characters chapter, to make sure the points and numbers come out right"

Anthony has connected.

Anthony . o O ( wow, all the snoozers )

SwiftOne radiates out the glass doors to the west.

Kurt says, "?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: JakeB, Martinl, SwiftOne, KDavidLadage, vitruvian, Kurt"

JakeB says, "I don't know if anyone's asked this yet but, What kind of technology will be seen in the setting? TL wise and the like.I get the impression that humans haven't left the solar sys. yet.(I would also like to say Hot Rods & Gun Bunnies is one my Favorite RPG Sups :).Greetings from Ft. Drum,NY, btw)."

Martinl says, "My Q: The first extrasolar inhabitable planet is discovered early on in the setting. It seems strange that they don't discover any more... but that's implied from the focus of CS types on the single planet"

SwiftOne radiates in from the Pyramid Plaza West.

dlpulver says, "4) I'd also like help with cool nomenclature. I'm not happy with SAI for sapient artificial intelligence; there are a few other clunkers. Would people still call the global datasphere the web in 2100? Etc."

Anthony missed 1,2, and 3

dlpulver says, "5) in general, does the rules support the setting? Did everything in the setting have rules for it? Etc."

SwiftOne [to Anthony]: use @read-log

CraigR [to dlpulver]: You might think about NOI, for Non-Organic Intelligence?

dlpulver says, "Okay, that's it for what I'd like to see. I will now answer questions..."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: JakeB, Martinl, SwiftOne, KDavidLadage, vitruvian, Kurt, "

Anthony . o O ( yes, I noted the electrolasers )

azathoth says, "Turing Intelligence for SAI, perhaps."

jdunson says, "Q re 4) Are you interested in good phrases from existing sources or originals only?"

Kurt says, "Clarkes."

Skyrender says, "Just as a suggestion - you may want to reiterate those points in the first post in the Playtest Forum when it goes up."

dlpulver says, "Sure, but I'm using Digital Intelligence already ... as a general term. I need something cool for sapient AI. Etc. Bring it up in the playtest; we can start a big thread!"

MarkW says, "Hals""

JustinSane says, "I might have missed this one, but do you have a list of said sequels, anywhere? Or at least a summary of what they each pertain(sp?) to?"

Martinl says, "HALs?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: JakeB, Martinl, SwiftOne, KDavidLadage, vitruvian, Kurt, jdunson"

dlpulver says, "I will do this, Skyrender"

Martinl beat me to it

dlpulver says, "Jake B's question?"

Martinl . o O ( I meant to think that )

raven vanishes into nothingness.

raven materializes out of thin air.

sszabo has connected.

Skyrender tips Justin. "You did miss it. Check the log later - it was done first thing. ^^;"

JustinSane says, "Blast. Sorry. ^^;"

dlpulver says, "Martinl's question?"

Martinl says, "My Q: The first extrasolar inhabitable planet is discovered early on in the setting. It seems strange that they don't discover any more... but that's implied from the focus of CS types on the single planet"

Skyrender says, "S'okay. =)"

Anthony [to Skyrender]: @read-log needs to use a more capability

Dataweaver says, "What _don't_ you want to see in the playtest?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: SwiftOne, KDavidLadage, vitruvian, Kurt, Dataweaver,"

Anthony [to Martinl]: nah, people focus on weird things

dlpulver says, "They've probably found a bunch of other possibilities. I will cover more of this in Deep Beyond, but the first and nearest, Virginia, attracted most attention."

SwiftOne says, "My Q: I'm not a gearhead, but using G:Space, I had problems makeing a hollowed comet spaceship, which I understand is the quickest low-tech ship..."

SwiftOne says, "Will that be handled?"

JakeB says, "I was wondering about the technology of the background?"

dlpulver says, "Swift One: hollowed comets are explictly covered."

SwiftOne [to Anthony]: Convince your client to log it :)

dlpulver says, "It's in the section on ice hulled ships."

SwiftOne says, "Excellent."

KDavidLadage says, "Q: What is the deal with the TS robots not using the G:ROBOTS rules? Does this bode well for the future of G:ROBOTS?"

Kromm [to Dataweaver]: Quibbles about the reader's personal theories on what the future will be like, based on a favorite novel, futurist's book, or campaign. To make a series work, we need one vision. That is David's.

Rolock suddenly forms from a large black puddle into a large, grey housecat

marq shows up.

JakeB . o O ( dangit! lost my chance. )

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: vitruvian, Kurt, Dataweaver, JakeB"

dlpulver says, "I hope not, as I get royalties from Robots. No, it reflects the inability to cover the robots rules in the limited space provided and also the very nanotech nature of TS robots. Robots was written eight years ago."

dlpulver says, "It does not cover a lot of the new polybot and shape-altering robots being researched today."

dlpulver says, "Gestalt intelligences, that sort of thing."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: vitruvian, Kurt, Dataweaver, JakeB, til_e"

KDavidLadage says, "OK... that makes sense. So G:ROBOTS 2/e anytime soon? :)"

dlpulver says, "So it was easier to do it as characters. And also since more PCs _will be robots, easier to integrate them."

CraigR wants to play a guy with 20 bodies. :)

JFZeigler . o O ( Besides, this setting is more interested in robots-as-characters than in robots-as-tools. )

dlpulver says, "Maybe in a year or three, if these rules are well recieved."

dlpulver says, "Besides, GURPS Has always had the option of using both the supers rules as in CI and the robots rules."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: vitruvian, Kurt, JakeB, til_e"

dlpulver says, "TS robots are much closer to organic entities -- eassentially these are on the road to nanomorphs."

dlpulver says, "Vitruvian?"

JakeB . o O ( Robots as PCs? protcol droid hell. )

dlpulver says, "A more significant deviation, by the way, is treating AI as software, not hardware."

Til_Eulenspiegel . o O ( "Correcting an oversight, IMO. )

dlpulver says, "This is why robots are called cybershells. Because they can embody intellignece in multiple ways, from uploaded human consiousness to direct control through telepresence."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: vitruvian, Kurt, JakeB, til_e, MarkW, Dataweaver"

vitruvian says, "yes, I'm still here- did you have any thoughts on my electrolaser question?"

dlpulver says, "Paging Vitruvian..."

Skyrender says, "Wild question: if AIs are software, how common are ghosts in the machine?"

Anthony . o O ( it also fixes skill-40 electronics operation software )

KDavidLadage . o O ( reminds me of that book Geodel-Escher-Bach )

dlpulver says, "Yes. First off, be aware that this is actually a downgrade from the existing rules. The electrolaser kept its cell type rather than upgrading one step while reating same number of shots."

dlpulver says, "Second, I am willing to reality check as soon as I get hard data on the current electrolaser designs in progress now and further dowgrade it. At the moment, assume the process is actually just not very efficient..."

Anthony [to dlpulver]: electrolasers should use massively less energy per shot. 27 kilojoules will make people look like they've been hit by lightning

vitruvian says, "okay- I was taking 27 kJ as the energy per shot- which it seems would induce some pretty serious damage if a lot of that energy actually grounds in the target"

Anthony . o O ( assume the actual delivered energy is similar to a taser )

Kurt . o O ( What's wrong with that . . . ? )

Kromm says, "Note that most of that 27 kJ would not reach the target."

Kromm says, "It ionizes the air."

Kromm says, "These are not using wires, but beams."

dlpulver says, "Just read it as hectojoules or joules... I do not know how much energy is wasted..."

Anthony says, "true, creating the beam path is probably not cheap"

dlpulver says, "In summary: I did think of it, but I don't have the data. If you have good ideas, it's a legitimate subject for the playtest."

Skyrender says, "Oooh. I think I'll like those. 'I love the smell of ozone in the morning...'"

dlpulver says, "Who's next?"

vitruvian says, "hmm- how much is going to the laser, and how much to the electical charge? Once the path is ionized, you should get pretty good energy transfer on the current..."

Martinl raises his hand

dlpulver says, "(Hmm... I sound like the prez in the West Wing"

Anthony . o O ( actually, 27 kilojoules of electricity would probably electrocute the firer as well )

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Kurt, JakeB, til_e, MarkW, Dataweaver, Skyrender, Martinl"

Kurt says, "Please expand upon "expanding the setting", #1 I believe on your Playtest Goals list. Looking for "local flavor" items? New corps/countries/AIs/whatever? What, exactly, are you looking for?"

Kromm [to Anthony]: Yes.

A bat-winged monstrosity drops CapnQ as it flies past.

Til_Eulenspiegel . o O ( Incoming Shantak poop! Take cover! )

Anthony would probably solve it by not listing the energy of an electrolaser, thus hiding any problems

dlpulver says, "Nothing in particular. If something leaps out that relates to this setting but should be covered, let me know. Otherwise, concentrate on playtesting this. I have said I would like slang and nomenclature. Some suggestions for a cool Top Five Celebrities or Movers and Shakers or Scientific Discoveries would be nice."

vitruvian says, "Wondering about the possibilities in exploring telepresence (within lightspeed limits). Extensive use could allow sapient AIs to control pretty small cyber- or bioshells..."

dlpulver says, "Cultural details that take up little space but can help make it seem real."

Kromm has to go in 5 minutes, so any questions for him should be asked now :)

Anthony . o O ( mm...the animal crackers of 2100 was an interesting one )

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Cultural Flavor. Gotcha.

dlpulver says, "Jake B?"

JFZeigler is particularly interested in items for Earth. He has 11 billion people to cover.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Thank you for coming, Dr. Kromm."

dlpulver says, "Thanks for coming Sean!"

Skyrender says, "G'd evening, Dr. Kromm. =)"

SwiftOne raises his hand

Kromm says, "Sorry to leave early, but I had my ESTs and CSTs mixed up :)"

Martinl says, "Au revoi"

coyote6 says, "Damned time zones!"

dlpulver says, "Incidentally, Sean has been one of the movers and shakers in this setting from the beginning, giving me many, many valuable ideas."

Kromm waves to all. There will be at least one more TS playtest chat.

CraigR waves at the Krommster

JakeB says, "Aside from Gurps' usual compatability, how "mixable" is TS?"

Kromm [to dlpulver]: Dali . . .

MarkW . o O ( What sort of group sports do you play in hugely overcrowded arcologies? )

coyote6 says, "He just wants to send his PCs back to TS Earth or something. :)"

dlpulver says, "Exactly. Like the Dali Kola..."

vitruvian says, "I'm thinking along the lines of the bug hunting androids in Sheffield's The Nimrod Hunt..."

Kromm waves once more, then must depart.

Kromm has gone on to the afterlife.

Anthony . o O ( TS earth meets the vilani would be interesting )

coyote6 [to dlpulver]: The Dali Cola is great -- the Surreal Thing

dlpulver says, "Regarding JFzeigler's point: Transhuman Space core has limited room for additions, but some of the books in progress need ideas. Just make sure any such suggestions are coded with the appropriate book code (which we'll post)."

Til_Eulenspiegel . o O ( DLP already wrote a one-sided book: Reign of Steel. )

Kurt says, "?"

dlpulver says, "How mixable is TS? You mean, with other settings?"

JakeB says, "Sorry, yes :)"

SwiftOne says, "The second imperium didn't exist, it's just a meme gone loose from the Terrans. Don't even ask about the Hivers..."

Anthony [to SwiftOne]: the hivers would make more sense than the vilani to TS humanity

Ral tries mixing TS with a little vermouth.

Rolock thinks fondly of Reign of Steel

dlpulver says, "I would say it would work okay with GURPS Psionics or GURPS Cabal or whatever. Hidden conspiracies can exist at any TL. It could be an Alternate Earth. It has virtual realities, so you could visit other settings in VR..."

KDavidLadage . o O ( TranHuman Space meet Technomancer... oh, yea baby! )

Kurt is listening to his MP3s trying to figure out if Battlestar Galactica or Space:1999 captures the feel of TS better. Certaily not Lost in Space. . .

Skyrender goes off on a limb. "GURPS Mecha?" <smirk>

SwiftOne says, "I'm starting my group on this playtest On long are we going to wait for the next playtest?"

dlpulver says, "There are battlesuits."

Til_Eulenspiegel . o O ( TS:Technomancer--Why do I feel so nauseated? )

dlpulver says, "Okay, who's next?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Kurt, JakeB, til_e, MarkW, Dataweaver, Skyrender, Martinl"

jdunson says, "Given the setting, it could lead to a particularly interesting Bunnies and Burrows crossover..."

JakeB . o O ( Just what the hell is a meme?! )

dlpulver says, "Kurt?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "I think."

Kurt says, "I already went, but I do have another."

KDavidLadage . o O ( T:Technomancer = the ultimate Atomic Lich... )

CraigR . o O ( The Lovecraft elements from Cthulhupunk would work, too... )

SwiftOne reraises his hand

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "End of the line."

dlpulver says, "Jake B or Kurt if he's fast."

Skyrender says, "to JakeB A 'free thought', as it were... someone else could explain it better than me."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: til_e, MarkW, Dataweaver, Skyrender, Martinl, SwiftOne"

JakeB says, "I allready asked."

Kurt says, "Just wanted to know if I missed a projected release date?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "I think that's me, then"

Skyrender gahs. "... I REALLY do not know how to work this MOO. Feh."

coyote6 [to Kurt]: SEan guestimated Dec. 3, 2001

dlpulver says, "Yes, you did. I forget... it's covered earlier in the chat. December for this one, I think."

dlpulver says, "til-E"

Kurt [to coyote6]: Thanks!

Kurt . o O ( TS: The Prisoner. . .mm m m m )

CraigR [to JakeB]: Memes are to thought processes and ideas what genes are to living beings: the building blocks.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Wait."

dlpulver says, "We'lldo a High Frontier chat later..."

vitruvian says, "Cultural stuff, huh? I would be interested in how the late 21st century looks back at the late 20th- nostalgically, with horror, what? What are the favorite settings for *their* games and simulations? Has the availability of individually tailored clothes led to a fissioning of the fashion world? More insular subcultures- we have Goths, Renfest-goers, etc.- do they have 20th century recreationists?"

dlpulver says, "Til?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Much of the cybernetics/AI"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "seems to allow mechancial versions of psionic powers."

JakeB . o O ( What have I started? :( )

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Much like "Mechanical Telepathy from G:Chtorr."

Anthony . o O ( isn't brainhacking going to be coming up in a later book? )

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Do I have this right, and if so, is now the right time to playtest such rules?"

dlpulver says, "I suppose -- what is your question?"

The housekeeper arrives to cart Kromm off to bed.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: MarkW, Dataweaver, Skyrender, Martinl, SwiftOne"

KDavidLadage . o O ( TS:Gernsback? No -- to weird... )

MarkW says, "Why no Centauri missions? Should be possible with small probe, micro-nukes and nanotech."

dlpulver says, "I don't think that specifically psionics as such exist. But a degree of brainhacking is possibly. Mostly I'm assuming that mental programming and telepathy is handlable through the existing brain implants. No one thinks any faster than they do today; you can read surface thoughts, i.e., subvocalized speech, through an implant link, etc."

Til_Eulenspiegel . o O ( Better than TS:Technomancer, but worse than TS: Bunnies & Burrows )

SwiftOne says, "TS:Steampunk : Ghost in the clockwork? "

Anthony [to MarkW]: you can build a TL 9 interstellar probe, but it wouldn't arrive at alpha centauri for another 50-100 years

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "So we don't see memes like in John Barnes' Candle?"

Skyrender says, "Til, you might as well take me off - I don't think my question is topical any longer. =P"

JakeB . o O ( Has FTL even got past the design stage? )

dlpulver says, "Mark, there are almost certainly small missions on their way to Centauri. They aren't their yet."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: til_e, MarkW, Dataweaver, Martinl, SwiftOne"

SMarsh has reconnected.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Dataweaver, Skyrender, Martinl, SwiftOne"

dlpulver says, "Also, most people are much more interested in the nearest habitable, 61 Virginis."

MarkW says, "Ok...seemed like there weren't any in my quick grep of files.""

Anthony [to JakeB]: ftl hasn't reached the design phase

MarkW says, "What is distance of 61 Virginis?""

SwiftOne [to Til_Eulenspiegel]: I thought you were cheating for a second :)

Kurt [to SMarsh]: Howdy do.

dlpulver says, "The current plans for a big mission are mostly centered on things like laser or particle beam magsail, and antimatter, and both require a degree of infrastructure to establish tthat is controversil"

dlpulver says, "Dataweaver"

Skyrender waves to the Editor.

Dataweaver says, "I've been poking through the Starship design section, and I note that you're not putting much emphasis into compatability with GURPS Vehicles. How difficult will it be to use GURPS Vehicles to supplement THS space vehicle design?"

Anthony . o O ( since a laser driver that big can be used to flatten cities from a couple AU... )

SJ goes home.

JFZeigler . o O ( Aside from that big starship that left for Centauri in 2060 or so. . . )

dlpulver says, "There's a section on Vehicles in Appendix C. But all the sub-modules were generally built with Vehicles."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Martinl, SwiftOne"

Martinl says, "Q: I noticed somthing funky but indeterminate was going down in Antarctica. Will be we seeing the emergance of Penguin InfoSocialism?"

Anthony . o O ( main differences are hull design and power )

dlpulver says, "Exactly, Anthony"

Kurt grins.

JakeB [to JFZeigler]: Ah, a crossover to G: Alfa Centauri :)

Kurt says, "?"

dlpulver says, "Even then, the power systems are fairly Vehicles-oid except for the radiator requirements. The armor is based on Vehicles."

Martinl says, "After all, the penguis will have to steal TLs 0-10"

dlpulver says, "No penguins will be in this series."

SwiftOne says, "I'm starting my group on TS this weekend, how long until the playtest of the next expansion? Before the official release of TS? "

Martinl says, "darn"

Anthony [to dlpulver]: so they're extinct? A pity

dlpulver says, "I'd expect another playtest starting in mid may."

marq raises his hand

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: marq"

jdunson says, "What, no NeoPenguin uplifts for Europa?"

Anthony [to JFZeigler]: mention conservation efforts to prevent penguins going extinct

dlpulver says, "Not extinct, I'm just not using intelligent penguins."

Skyrender has a bunch of stupid questions... just two, really. ^^;

MarkW . o O ( Alas, Tux, we hardly knew you. )

dlpulver says, ""marq"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: marq, Skyrender, Skyrender, Til_E"

KDavidLadage says, "Any chance of a Templates book for TS in the future?"

Kurt says, "?"

JakeB . o O ( Dobedobedo... )

marq says, "Rules Q : With a clade like the Gilgamesh, are the lognevity mods cumulative with nano implants?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: marq, Skyrender, Skyrender, Til_E, Kurt"

Martinl . o O ( uplifted penguins would be a good idea for posh restaurants and dancing schools )

dlpulver says, "Incidentally: as I mentioned earlier, Anthony was very helpful with the spaceship design rules. Thank you!"

Anthony . o O ( they're still...erm...optimistic, but ;) )

dlpulver says, "Where it seems appropriate and can work that way..."

Dataweaver says, "Thank you."

Dataweaver's energy patterns suddenly disperse.

CmdrSam has connected.

MarkW says, "Templates seem like a good idea for Pyramid""

dlpulver says, "Yep, the radiation rules and such are..."

dlpulver says, "And drives..."

Ambient energy coalesces into the form of Dataweaver.

marq says, "Well, it's implies that they doth do essentailly the same thing (DNA reconstruction)"

Anthony [to dlpulver]: tho I still have a comment about them ;)

dlpulver says, "It's something we can cover.. in playtest"

CraigR patpats the restabilized Dataweaver.

dlpulver says, "(the cumulative longevity issue)"

dlpulver says, "Skyrender"

Skyrender says, "Q1: Is it 'TS' or 'THS'? Q2: With software-based AIs, will there be a lot of ghosts in the machine? I imagine that one would be handled in the text but... ^^;"

Skyrender says, "I did say they were stupid questions. ^^;"

marq nods.

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Q: Til_E"

dlpulver says, "I use TS. I dunno what the official abreviation is. 2. Ghosts in the machine?"

Skyrender says, "As in, an AI program without a host body, drifting through the 'net."

Drekka17 has connected.

JFZeigler . o O ( Weblife! )

Anthony [to Skyrender]: programs don't 'drift' quite like that ;)

dlpulver says, "Yes. Some of these are mentioned. Note that drifting through the net is presumably a metaphor. In practice, do you mean flitting from system to system, or replicating on numerous s ystems, or preferring to exist on multiple parallel computers?"

dlpulver says, "Jon Zeigler has promised to cover weblife in depth in Fifth Wave"

coyote6 . o O ( Distributed life? )

JakeB has to go, he needs his sleep, so he can be a "Squared-away" soldier tomorrow, "g'nite all"

dlpulver says, "I wish him luck!"

dlpulver says, "There is one such example in the characters chapter"

Skyrender says, "All of the above. It depends on if you want to use a soul metaphor for an AI program or not. =P"

dlpulver says, "Til-E"

MarkW . o O ( Boggling at the idea of a sapient/sentient Beowulf cluster )

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "It seems that both GURPS Psionics and GURPS Spirits will have some application to TS. (Seems odd, but true.) I'll bring this up in playtest. "

JakeB presses a button on his watch. The skylight smashes, a rope drops down, and JakeB grabs it, ties it around his waist and is lifted into the air. Bye now. :)

dlpulver says, "Sure"

Anthony says, "might actually be interesting to deal with 'virtual computers', like the current seti@home"

marq cheers for weblife

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "A Sentient cluster is much less interesting if it's tied to hardware than if it's free-roaming."

Skyrender says, "Til: Just what I was thinking of. Sapient AIs could be comparable to robotic souls."

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Should I wait for 5thWave playtest to discuss it?"

dlpulver says, "PossiblyIn Nominie also. And yes, the lack of data for parallels is and the abilty to rent time on same, etc. is something I'd like to cover. It was one reaosn I made th enew computer chart symmetrical, to make it easie rto game out"

vitruvian says, "Q: The AI rules seem to focus on AIs designed to interact with the real world. What about advances in simulation and virtual reality- perhaps emulations of at least Shadow level in a simulated world, or historical reconstructions. Is the term Sims copyrighted? A Hume could be a unit of memory or processing capacity necessary to simulate a near-sapient mentality..."

dlpulver says, "Who's next?"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Okay. Q's empty, and I'm off."

coyote6 . o O ( 'Natural' disaster for distributed life: rolling blackouts. ;) )

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "Thank you for this chat."

Kurt says, "Thanks for queing, Til."

Skyrender says, "Night, Til. =)"

Rolock waves

Martinl says, "good job Til"

Rolock walks out the glass doors to the north.

KDavidLadage has disconnected.

MarkW says, "Good job""

dlpulver says, "Interesting concept, Hume... mention it on playtest. Some of this may be too complex to treat easily in game terms. That was one ofthe issues I was having trouble with"

Til_Eulenspiegel says, "You're welcome. You also sound like a volunteer, Kurt."

Anthony [to coyote6]: having the antiviral software decide you're a virus...

jdunson [to coyote6]: Properly distributed life rolls ahead of the blackouts

Til_Eulenspiegel has disconnected.

Drekka17 says, "is the chat over. did i mis it."

dlpulver says, "Thank you Til!"

dlpulver says, "No, I think I'm still here."

Anthony [to jdunson]: plus a lot of computers are probably designed to be extremely reboot-safe

Drekka17 says, "good, nice meeting u"

Kurt says, "Do we eant to keep the que going, or let this disintegrate into the usual madness?"

CapnQ . o O ( Which implies higher intelligence, sentient or sapient? )

Skyrender votes for madness.

dlpulver says, "Okay, mad it is."

MarkW says, "As a non-playtest related question, how much advertising/promotion will TS be getting? All of my local game shops are pretty GURPS-sparse""

Anthony says, "well, we lost our queue-keeper ;)"

dlpulver says, "A fair bit, MarkW. "

Kurt cheers lustily for madness.

Skyrender says, "Sentience is self-awareness. What's sapience?""

Martinl says, "Have you considered the possibilities of the EU's AI citizenship laws? You can *build* voters who follow your politics..."

CmdrSam says, "I'm sorry, but I just noticed the chat announcement and came in -- was there some special advice for playtesters-to-be?"

dlpulver says, "Sapience is reasoning ability at a human or bette rlevel."

coyote6 [to MarkW]: They're sending the meme to Washington state, to infect those coastal wizards. ;)

MarkW says, "Will there be much of a push towards store owners/distributors?""

Anthony [to Martinl]: sorta depends on how old an AI has to be to be a citizen

Martinl says, "Sorry, Ofc you've considered it - I just meant that aspect. <blush>"

Skyrender says, "CmdrSam: Yes, but Mr. Pulver will be reiterating that when the Forum goes up."

CraigR . o O ( Drekka shows up, and madness ensues. ;> )

dlpulver says, "Yes, Martini. There are probably tight restrictions on AI design and reproduction."

MarkW [to coyote6]: = LMAO!

dlpulver says, "If we don't reat it here, Jon Z will need to treat it."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Any chance of TS Fiction?

CmdrSam says, "Thank you, Skyrender."

vitruvian says, "ooh- saw the list of most wanted criminals... so just how smart *did* the Doolittle virus make those Rocky Mountain coyotes?"

SwiftOne [to CmdrSam]: Yes, it's in the log. Look for "to quick summarize"

dlpulver says, ""Yes CmdrSAM but I will post it at start of playtest as well."

Drekka17 says, "as always!"

CmdrSam says, "Sounds good! I guess I'll try to go fact-check as much of the physics as I can"

SwiftOne says, "Will you be on the playtest board, or will communication be only through raven?"

dlpulver says, "Sentience is the ability to react to external stimula in an intelligent fashion (sort of)"

raven says, "back to keyboard"

Dataweaver says, "So the TS playtest is likely to have a bunch of "defer this to [TS supplement]" posts terminating threads..."

Martinl says, "Do parents brainhack their kids into behaving?"

MarkW says, "I know its not likely, but ficiton sounds like a no-brainer for TS""

dlpulver says, "I will do a bit of both, but primarily through raven. I have a busy work schedule -- I'm supposed to do a traveller planetary survey"

jdunson says, "Q re 4) Are you interested in good phrases from existing sources or originals only? The line between copyright and cultural concept that has gone generic is vague"

CapnQ [to dlpulver]: Thanks, I've never been clear on the difference between them.

dlpulver says, "Martini, they do not. Brainhacking as in GURPS does not exist as such. You can brainhack ghosts and AIs"

JFZeigler says, "I do in fact intend to address extensive VR worlds, weblife, and other advanced computer issues in FIFTH WAVE. The Earth Web is huge, after all."

dlpulver says, "They may use the psycho surgery if kids are very naughty and local laws allow ... which is rare."

Kurt already had an idea for a short story just from reading the playtest files today.

SwiftOne says, "Can I petition for no use of "web"? "Net" is a preferable noun/adjective to me, since so much isn't HTTP."

Skyrender says, "InfoNet, WorldNet, GaiaNet/GaeaNet...""

dlpulver says, "Originals only unless they appear in multiple diverse sources. E.G., Greg Bear uses Thinker for AIs. If four or five other sf writers also use it, it's multiple and diverse. Cyberspace wasn't when Gibson used it' is inow. If it's too common, though, I'd rather not use it."

Martinl says, "Dirtnet"

SwiftOne says, ".earth""

jdunson [to Martinl]: But it looks like memetic engineering advances may improve parents ability to influence their children

Dataweaver . o O ( IIRC, "net" and "web" are both being replaced by "logosphere"... )

Anthony says, "does mars have a significant web?"

JFZeigler . o O ( Logosphere. )

jdunson [to SwiftOne]: .terra is more likely

CmdrSam says, "Okay...must finish reading through those files now. I'll scan through the log later. Thank you for holding this chat, all those involved."

Martinl says, "Thinking of 100 year old mimetic-engineer/mindwarping overprotective mothers gives me the screaming heebie-jeebies"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: How about "mirrorspace" as in "the other side of the mirror"?

dlpulver says, "Swiftone, discussion of a good replacement of Web is fine. Replacements that have one syllable are more likely to be accepted. We will not start abbreviating net to worldnet."

Anthony says, "btw, you realize that .59 atmospheres on mars requires a thicker atmosphere than earth..."

CmdrSam has disconnected.

Skyrender says, "TerraNet... FirmaNet. Hm. Good question... is the 'net' still a web of network cables, or has it passed onto an 'energy web'? I mean, radiated signals disperse - there could easily by a digital shell around Earth comprised of bad signals. Not unlike a digital wasteland through which major roads are plowed..."

Skyrender says, "Dangit, I really need to read those files. >.<"

dlpulver says, "Ask Jonathan Woodward. But almost certainly it has whatever 2.5 million people can manage, many of them scientists. So about as significant, as, say, Los Angeles does."

Martinl says, "Actually, 'Screaming heebie-Jeebie' might work good as slang for some kind of sonic weapon..."

dlpulver says, "JFZ ... Logosphere bugs me because it's being used NOW as a term for the world prior to it having gone digital."

jdunson says, "At least equivalent to Mosaic - era web, then"

vitruvian says, "Q: Has the bulk of the world undergone the 'demographic shift'? There is some mention of an aging population, but not just how low the birth rate may have fallen in the Fifth Wave nations, and how this may have affected attitudes towards child-rearing///"

dlpulver says, "Again, people will not realistically change web or net to something longer... further discussion to playtest!"

Anthony bets that exo-wombs may have helped reverse the demographic shift

MarkW says, "Way off the wall, but are there cover mock-ups yet?""

Kurt says, "I do have a problem with some of the political assumptions (can YOU trust politicians not to use the most advanced surveillance and MIND CONTROL technology in history?), but since those stray into the realm of "opinion", should they be avoided?"

dlpulver says, "JFZ will treat this in depth, but yes, I can see exo-wombs having influence, and also the third world gradually decellerating by 2050 or so... it might actually start to reverse, with the rich north breedin gagain through non-natural means and the poor south stuck in post industrial slump."

Anthony [to dlpulver]: was a 2 trillion ton moon really necessary to anchor the mars skyhook?

dlpulver says, "Anthony, I believe the issue is that Deimos is in the way of a Mars sky hook, so you have to do SOMETHING with it."

Kurt says, "As a followup - does aluminum foil help block the aforementiond Mind Control waves?"

dlpulver says, "I have seen no cover mockups. The only concept art I've seen is what Phil has posted."

GOOMark has connected.

Skyrender prods Justin. "Say it."

jdunson [to Kurt]: Probably not, as it is far more likely to be optical. RF just doesnt cut it for bandwidth

Kurt [to jdunson]: Gonna bore into people's minds with lasers? Eww.

Anthony [to dlpulver]: it might be the other moon. Deimos appears to be outside of geosynch

dlpulver says, "Kurt, I believe that some of the politicians in some countries are using the surveillance tech and mind control. And that the secret agencies are happily using it. But that surveillance can trickle down to the people, who can use it back. As the first chapter says, some countries HAVE been turned into authoritarian hellh oles."

dlpulver says, "Hi Mark"

JustinSane says, "No, Sky. I'm not going to go into the bizarrity possible with Transhuman Illuminati. No. No way. ^^;"

JustinSane says, "... Oops."

raven says, "Gotta go tke the sprog home, see you all in the log..."

Skyrender says, "Hee. =)"

Martinl says, "Idea: Life support and energy advances seem to allow for deep subterranian habitats for the deeply paranoid... "

GOOMark says, "Hi David. I just found out about the chat."

SwiftOne . o O ( sprog? )

dlpulver says, "Been waffling on for two hours or so..."

MarkW says, "Actually, I'm interested in what happens to the Illuminati/conspiracy meme itself.""

CraigR wonders about periodic phemotype testing to ensure brainwashing hasn't occurred. It would need to be done at relatively short intervals to plot the "memetic drift" that occurs normally within a mind as growth...

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Its not the government you need to watch out for, but your nosy neighbors - or kids who are smart enough to figure out how to control YOU. . .

Drekka17 says, "waffling?"

dlpulver says, "Martinl, that seems quite possible."

raven [to SwiftOne]: sprog=porgeny, little kid, child, etc.

dlpulver says, "Kurt, I agree"

Skyrender says, "Mark: They probably moved off-world as soon as space travel became practical. I can just see them setting up shop on a small asteroid in the Belt."

dlpulver says, "Mark W, I'm sure it's alive and well."

SwiftOne says, "The meme about kids and VCRS gets replaced with kids and brainhacking..."

SwiftOne [to raven]: I guessed from context, but is that a personal term, or just one I haven't seen before?

Martinl says, "Finally, *real* mole men. :) Perhaps more sensible on a geologically dead body though: The Mole men on the Moon?"

JustinSane says, "Or, for that matter, this would make another interesting setting to link with IOU. Either way, the fun goes on."

SwiftOne says, "80% of american homes have a mom with a blinking 12:00..."

dlpulver says, "Incidentally, if you like Transhuman Space, my soon-to-appear book from Guardians of Order, Centauri Knights, is another rock-hard sf setting that takes place in 2150. You can think o fit as what would have happened if the Terrestrial Planet Finder had discovered Alpha Centauri was habitable in 2010..."

Kurt says, "One other thing - watch out for over-use of "meme". :)"

MarkW says, "Every setting is an interesting link to IOU""

dlpulver says, "Why?"

JustinSane says, "Point, Mark."

Anthony [to Kurt]: unless its specifically noted as a buzzword ;)

raven [to SwiftOne]: picked it up from alt.suppot.childfree (of all places)

dlpulver says, "It's a buzzward. See the glossary"

MarkW says, "Speaking of which, I'm about to start a IOU campaign using BESM. Kudos, David, Mark""

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Well, if used to describe everything, it seems to quickly become more of a "catchphrase" - at least in my mind. I always thought of mems as being relatively big things like Religion, not kids and VCRs. (no offense)

dlpulver says, "Thanks!"

dlpulver says, "Well, I wasn't talking about kids and VCRs, so none taken."

CapnQ [to SwiftOne]: I first saw "sprog" in Bullfrog's Populous 2: it meant right-clicking a settlement to produce a walker.

dlpulver says, "See the list of major memes in Chapter 3"

SwiftOne [to Kurt]: how would you classify urban legends (not defending the kids/VCR)

GOOMark says, "I've just downloaded the chat log, so I'm off to read it now. Night everyone."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Actually was more directed at Swifty, sorry.

dlpulver says, "Night!"

jdunson says, "some of the most insidious memes are the small ones. Consider the differences between bacteria, viruses, and prions."

dlpulver says, "JFZ, feel free to include a Meme List in your book, if you like the idea..."

vitruvian says, "Speaking of memes- has more knowledge of neuropsychology and memetics led to the development of 'killer jokes' or Medusa graphics- aural or visual stimuli designed to freeze up your mind ala Godel's Thereom (every record player has a record that it can't play without self-destructing)?"

GOOMark has disconnected.

Skyrender says, "Hm. Think I'm going to go and actually READ this now. =P"

dlpulver says, "Of course, I stole some of yours..."

JFZeigler says, "And, of course, if you light THS and Centauri Knights, I could plug yet *another* product :-)."

MarkW says, "Out-of-control wildfire meme = 'All your base...""

dlpulver says, "Alpha Centauri?"

azathoth says, "Go every ZIG!"

jdunson [to MarkW]: Exactly....

JustinSane says, "For great justice, of course."

raven says, "OK, now Darling Wife needs help with squirming kid, I'm gone for the night. Bye"

dlpulver says, "Vitruvian, I have my doubts. I've read about same, but I' m not sure I believe."

raven has disconnected.

Skyrender says, "Hmm. The new AYBABTU of THS - 'All your genes are belong to us.' Or memes. Or... whatever. =P"

Kurt [to SwiftOne]: Some Urban Legends (the ghostly hitchiker for instance) could qualify. Would it be more helpful to have different meme "ratings"?

JFZeigler is finishing the draft even as we speak. Mailing Day is tomorrow.

Anthony [to dlpulver]: makes a great rumor, though

CraigR [to Kurt]: According to THE MEME MACHINE (can't remember the author right now), the "big ones" like religion and such are memeplexes, that have all sort of smaller ideas/memes that ride along with them.

Skyrender says, "Never mind. =P Here I go... g'night, folks!"

MarkW says, "Vitruvian, wonder if induced seizures would fit into that.""

Kurt [to CraigR]: Ah, that's helpful.

Skyrender walks out the glass doors to the north.

Anthony has disconnected.

MarkW says, "Is MEME MACHINE by the guy that wrote MEDIA VIRUS?""

vitruvian says, "Even if not actually doable, I bet there would be a meme out there that you'd better watch out on the net.. web.. whatever, that some evil genius has designed one. It would be comparable to our current virus scares..."

dlpulver says, "On Transhuman Space and Hard Science: In general, I want to be reasonably plausible, but we don't have to be absolutely diamond hard if it gets in the way of the story. So, no antigravity or continuous burn 1 G fusion rockets, but a little slack is cool."

jdunson says, "Many (most? all?) religions are a collection of standard meme libraries with fairly small custom packages, for instance"

Drekka17 says, "what time period will this book take place in?"

SwiftOne says, "Speaking of which, can we get an AYBABTU in the memes chapter? That would be too funny"

NVDaydreamer finds his train of thought has brought him back here.

dlpulver says, ""The book is set in 2100"

JustinSane says, "Blast. Sleep and dreams and mind-devouring horrors call. Goodnight, everybody."

dlpulver says, "AYBABTU?"

dlpulver says, "Good night"

vitruvian says, "So, a memetic engineer could go to town like L. Ron Hubbard squared in creating a new religion..."

azathoth says, "Without an AYBABTU, you have no chance to survive. Make your time."

SwiftOne says, "All Your Base Are Belong To Us"

NVDaydreamer . o O ( Mind-devouring horrors? )

Ral say, "All Your Base..."

marq [to vitruvian]: That's like contemporary virus hoaxes about e-mail that will cause your CPU to overheat...

Kurt [to SwiftOne]: Watch Traveller: Starships closely (if it makes it past the editors)

CraigR [to MarkW]: It's by Susan Blackmore and Richard Dawkins (thank you

Dataweaver . o O ( AYBABTU is a dying meme; by the time the book comes out, it'll be passe, if it isn't already. )

jdunson . o O ( Open source religion )

JustinSane . o O ( Family, friends, and characters with their own ideas, NV. )

dlpulver says, "Too an extent. It's not magic, it's just a bit better understood. And programming still has to be done on an individual level if you want brainwashing. I would say it's much like psychology today... "

marq [to Dataweaver]: What you say??

MarkW says, "2100 equiv to AYBABTU = 'You may be eaten by a grue""

SwiftOne [to vitruvian]: I remember when email viruses WERE a hoax. Sigh.

dlpulver says, "Ah."

CapnQ . o O ( Someone set up us the meme )

vitruvian says, "AYBABTU- one biotech form patents *all* of the genes, starts charging royalties for your body working.."

Martinl says, "Christnux?"

dlpulver says, "A top five nasties list would be fun."

MarkW [to CraigR]: = Thanks. Guy that wrote MEDIA VIRUS did one about memes that never mentioned Dawkins. Not one time.

Kurt says, ""nasties"?"

NVDaydreamer hadn't figured it meant "all your base-pairs are belong to us..."

dlpulver says, "Fears of people. "

jdunson [to MarkW]: grue as slang for hostile weblife is a good idea

Drekka17 says, "what r the limitations to this story line?"

NVDaydreamer exits. Tax deductible donations may be made to the Hapless Imaginers Trust...

JustinSane says, "Actually, consider a type of creature that collected gene samples, spliced and experimented as it pleased, and then let said experiments out into the world. Always amusing..."

dlpulver says, "I dunno. I can only write so fast, I guess... what limitations did you have in mind?"

Kurt says, "Ahhh. The 2100 version of Ebola and Asteroid strikes."

JustinSane forgets to sleep for a bit.

dlpulver says, "Yes, Kurt."

MarkW [to jdunson]: = I LIKE IT! 'Damned grues!"

vitruvian says, "Hey- we're starting to deal with biotech companies that sell seeds that will only go one generation... would some biomods for humans need medical intervention for the children to reproduce? Could a genome be copy-protected?"

dlpulver says, "Grue is cute."

CraigR [to dlpulver]: Which is why certain paranoid types would require phemotype testing, to make sure they still have the right bigotries, as it were.

dlpulver says, "POssibly. And possibly. See the note on intron trademarks."

Drekka17 says, "none."

dlpulver says, "Okay, enough memes. Any comments on the overall meta-themes of the setting? Politics? The general technology? Seem okay?"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: You've already got one - alien invaders - courtesy of the Survivalists.

dlpulver says, "True..."

Kurt . o O ( Which I really like, BTW. )

CapnQ [to JustinSane]: That sort of reminds me of the Genestealers in Space Hulk/Warhammer 40K

MarkW says, "Is medical intervention a big deal? Could you just get a fertile new body and braindump to it, or is there no equiv to braintaping?""

CraigR was using phemotype in reference to memes as phenotype is to genes, an individual instantiation of same...

Martinl says, "The war in the 80s seemed remarkably bloodless considering the technology available...."

jdunson says, "There is one company that requires yearly licensing for their supercorn, which does breed true. Has sued farmers, not their customers, in adjecent fields, who got benefit due to natural propagation...."

SwiftOne says, "I haven't finished the draft yet, but my main concern is that there are so many ways for mass death that life will be cheap..."

dlpulver says, "There is no direct equivalent of the braintape."

JustinSane says, "Never seen it, CapnQ. Regrettably, I'm utterly culture clueless. :("

CraigR [to MarkW]: Dawkins wrote the intro

SwiftOne says, "Not to mention problematic for keeping PCs alive."

Ral pronks on out.

dlpulver says, "My assumption is that war between 3rd wave plus powers is getting more bloodless. Still, casaulties in it were about equal to Desert Storm, and I did note that many mor edied alter (from economic effects, contamination, etc.)"

jdunson says, "One general puzzle I had was what seemed less ocean colonization than I expected."

dlpulver says, "You can switch bodies but aside from some possibly weird rumors on Mars you have to ghost yourself first, and that kill syou..."

MarkW says, "Makes sense. Current wave in warfare is less death for combatants, more for civilians.""

dlpulver says, "Less for both, actually"

Ral pronks on in.

Drekka17 has disconnected.

CapnQ [to JustinSane]: I've never plated WH40K myself, just SH. Genestealers are sort of a biogenetic Borg.

Martinl says, "I guess I don't see any war since WWII as a full scale war between major powers, and this seemed like it was"

dlpulver says, "Compare the death results of NATO vs.Serbia to Allied bombing campaign in WWII or US in Vietnam..."

CapnQ [to JustinSane]: As in Star Trek Borg, that is.

jdunson says, "On the other hand, deaths due to atrocities, genocide, etc. seems to be on the upswing."

Martinl says, "Today, nobody is willing to go far enought to risk nukes being used."

dlpulver says, "If you call Indonesia and Vietnam and Thailand major powers..."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: One "meta-question" - Will you be going in to more detail about how, exactly, the majority of humanity has been altered (as in availability/affordability/etc.)? Just because something CAN be done dosn't mean it WILL be - or will be ALLOWED by those in power. My on version of "Immortality for Everyone" involved a genetically altered virus that escaped, basically infecting everyone with immortality. The people developing it had no intention of GIVING it to anyone.

Ral say, "Or perhaps no one is willing to risk the economic consequences."

marq says, "WRT swithcing bodies, there's no way to write a ghost into a brain, right? You have to use a puppet interface?"

JustinSane says, "That's eerie. I played a sort of those, via freeform. One poor girl, lots of genetic manipulation tricks. A few months later, she's got a thousand kin, and mentions, when asked about it, "... I got lonely.""

JFZeigler checks his watch and waves to the crowd.

dlpulver says, "If the existing setting description is unclear, than yes, I can clarify on how much people ar emodified"

Kurt [to JFZeigler]: Nite!

MarkW says, "Is there an overall theme, or high concept, to TS? "What _does_ human mean?" seems like one."

dlpulver says, "Exactly, Marq. "

dlpulver says, "Good night JFZ, nice having you!"

Martinl says, "China's major, and the otherse seemed big enough to be a credible threat. Was it more of a mismatch?"

Dataweaver says, "Could you give years of introduction for the various technologies in chapter 5? It would be a fairly concise way of allowing GMs to do "pre-TS" settings. Frex, I'm working on a 2060's campaign, andit would be nice to know which innovations would be likely to be around then."

dlpulver says, "MarkW, that is one of them, yes."

sszabo has disconnected.

The Scout yawns, nods politely to all, and wanders off.

Martinl . o O ( my typing is *sad* tonight )

vitruvian says, "Just how much worse is the resolution from the high-res MRIs versus physically stripping the brain? Could you have cases where somebody dies and their Shadow or Ghost carries on for them for some time before anyone notices the difference? Likewise, could somebody develop a sapient AI as a simulation based on your observed behavior and personality profile only, not even bothering with trying to mimic underlying brain function? Once created, can ghosts be successfully copied off, even if it's illegal?"

MarkW says, "So we're actually seeing the Ghost in the Shell game, just in a slightly modified manner? <G>"

JustinSane has seen worse, Martini. Lots worse...

dlpulver says, "Martinl, it was a bit of a mismatch. Still, China was going into a land war in Vietnam, and the terrain there kind of sucks."

Drekka17 has connected.

Martinl says, "nite"

dlpulver says, "Yes you could have a shadow chararying on. You can probably create AI simulations that are not persons. I would like to develop that more. Once created, ghosts can be xoxed indefinitely at full resolution. This makes people nervous."

Dolarre has disconnected.

MarkW says, "Amen to that, about Vietnam terrain. Had a friend back in HS that died in the first Chinese-Vietnamese 'incident'. Brutal.""

dlpulver says, "MarkW, I would say the setting is quite different from Ghost... like space travel."

Kurt says, "Seems like most "superpower" conflicts will be handled in the High Frontier now, but there is still plenty of room for brushfire wars on Earth."

dlpulver says, "I could date tech, but it does add considerably space to date everything..."

dlpulver says, "Certainly it's worthwhile for the major technologies"

coyote6 recalls the Clone Wars from GURPSnet-l, and can see how indefinite xoxing can make people nervous. :)

vitruvian says, "I would imagine- there should be at least one dictator or would-be dictator that ghosted themselves, xoxed, and started lobotomizing and puppeting as many people as possible."

jdunson says, "IIRC _Nanotech Chronicles_ talks about companion AIs to senators eventually becoming the de facto senators"

Kurt has reached his decision. The Space:1999 theme definitely captures the TS feel better.

Drekka17 waves goodnight to everyone

dlpulver says, "Basically, you saw in real life how difficult it can be these days for the US, UK to deal with a "third world power" like Serbia or Argentina or Iraq... big coaltion s or lots of edge-of-your-pants improvision (falklands). So imgine China going against three such powers organized together... China's advantage, however, was a surprise attack..."

Dataweaver says, "Major techs would be sufficient, as long as the minor innovations can be easily inferred."

CraigR [to Drekka17]: Goodnight

Martinl says, "It seems that most of the bizarre social experiments people are afraid of are being tried in space somewhere"

jdunson says, "This sort of thing seems likely - if most 5th wave people are surrounded by their AI ally swarm, at what point does the center no longer matter?"

dlpulver says, "There are probably a bunch of those. I hope that Broken Dreams, the Nasty Earth book , will cover such."

MarkW says, "The similarity to L. Neil Smith's later Libertarian novels just hit me. Similar settings, but without gonzo Libertarian meme gone wild."

dlpulver says, "Martinl, weirdness in space is a major theme."

dlpulver says, "Conflicts between capitalism, libertarianism and socialism, among others, is a significant theme. I try not to play favorites, but believe that some have certain advantages in certain situations."

MarkW says, "THE VENUS BELT, in particular."

Dataweaver says, "OK; I just downloaded the TS playtest files, and will be digesting them over the next several days. Logging off..."

dlpulver says, "By DW"

vitruvian says, "You could also have a collective in a Belt colony that has all ghosted themselves and puppets their old bodies- but they can trade bodies at will.."

Dataweaver's energy patterns suddenly disperse.

dlpulver says, "A good question..."

Martinl says, "Noticed that. Just pointing out that the 'People don't do this or that' theme is not 100%"

dlpulver says, "I will be treating one such collective I think..."

SMarsh [to dlpulver]: Actually, couldn't tech invention dates be handled as a table: Gene Splicing -- Human (p. TS26) -- 2018. It wouldn't take too much space, and could run in, say, a gaming magazine... :p

SwiftOne says, "My group consists of my liberal self, and three very conservative types. They had serious problems with the liberal setting of Timepiece, I'll see what they think of TS."

dlpulver says, "Maybe, or a box, for major things it's certainly worth while."

jdunson says, "The listing of corps seem to focus on more traditional ones. I would think that it could have a few more memetic engineering / ad firm types."

MarkW says, "Hmm...ultimate Marxist experiment. From each according to their host body...""

dlpulver says, "Sure. A memetic engineering ad firm is a must. Please suggest this in the playtest!"

dlpulver says, "Some of the emphasis on space and biotech corps is a relic of me having written Deep Beyond (partial draft) first and then switched to the full draft. But that is an excellent example of something I'd like to ad."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Congrats to everyone on being brave enough to give some other countries a crack at being the Big dog for a change.

JustinSane says, "Or a nice punishment for intolerance, Mark. Walk a mile in someone else's feet."

MarkW says, "Memetic engineering for media stars. CAA goes nanotech."

Drekka17 [CraigR] thanx

CraigR [to MarkW]: I used ideas from THE VENUS BELT for my 21st Century Sci-Fi/Supers game to populate interstellar space! :)

dlpulver says, "Thank you Kurt. I also hope that the TSA do not come off entirely as "bad guys" -- I can easiliy see a game where they are not."

JustinSane says, "And the rest of their body parts, for that matter. Although, walking WITH their feet would be more appropriate."

CraigR [to Drekka17]: De nada :)

Drekka17 has disconnected.

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Funny you should mention that, as it touches on one of the ideas I had todayt.

CapnQ . o O ( Memes R Us )

vitruvian says, "(to Kurt) Well, ever since the SCA took over Russia, it's been doing much better... ;-)"

MarkW [to CraigR]: = Interesting. I do wish he'd stick more to story, and less to axe-grinding.

Kurt grins.

jdunson . o O ( Will TS memetic engineers look back at Pokemon as the first TL8 engineered meme? )

CraigR [to MarkW]: Yeah...

Martinl says, "To get back to the war topic - an "all out" war without any stops would be a major danger in this setting, much worse than current nuke capabilities. Is this worried about at all?"

JustinSane says, "Walking IN feet would be more akin to nanotech... O.o;;"

dlpulver says, "Possiblyjdunson"

dlpulver says, "Yes"

dlpulver says, "There's a mention of that in the first ch apter, I think"

Kurt [to jdunson]: Good lord, no. Madison Avenue has been producing Memes for decades now.

dlpulver says, "With asteroid moving, antimatter, and black hole technology you could be nasty, even without the nanotech viruses etc."

MarkW says, "First engineered meme = convincing women to smoke. Fascinating story there.""

CraigR [to Kurt]: Not to mention every ad agency on the planet

apoc527 has connected.

JustinSane says, "Oops. I'm vapor for real, this time. Goodnight..."

dlpulver says, "Arguably, more people may smoke in TS, as cancer is curable..."

dlpulver says, " a greater degree"

dlpulver says, "Goodnight JustinSane"

vitruvian says, "On the limits to genemods to attributes- if stats like ST and IQ are largely genetic, and you can identify one individual with stats in the 18-20 range, couldn't you just clone them to effectively make a very high-class enhancement template?"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: I notice you made a big deal out of the terrorists getting hold of nuclear weapons for use against the Mars elevator, but there's on conveniently priced on the equipment list. Heavily regulated, I hope?

JustinSane says, "Pleasure meeting y'all."

JustinSane has disconnected.

MarkW says, "Nanos targeting the tar and nicotine molecules in a 98.6 enviroment?""

dlpulver says, "No, Vitruvian, because ST18 is probably ST+2 genetic and ST+6 training."

apoc527 says, "Hello all, any rules and regs to know about here?"

SwiftOne says, "Plus, I've heard stats saying the intelligence could be as much as 50% environmental...."

Martinl says, "I suspect nukes would be impossible to control in the belt, given the resources, technologu, and anarchic society..."

Kurt [to apoc527]: Nope, its a free-for-all.

dlpulver says, "None that I think of, but if you mean for playtest, check the log..."

MarkW says, "Fairly easy to detect, though.""

jdunson says, "Nature vs. Nurture argument is experimentally testable in TS."

SwiftOne says, "Though I haven't a reference, so take that with salt."

dlpulver says, "Quick question: anyone find anything that really seemed out of left field in the manuscript?"

vitruvian says, "Okay- have there been comparable advances in nutrition and training science, so that a bioroid with +10 ST in the template can pretty reliably be trained up to a total 30 ST?"

Martinl says, "Does the fusion tech allow for non fission-triggered fusion nukes?"

dlpulver says, "No, Vitruvian."

coyote6 [to Martinl]: You can buy 1 kt nukes in the belt.

vitruvian says, "or would that require non-biological mods out of Ultratech 2?"

dlpulver says, "Martinl, not really, no."

jdunson says, "I've got some concerns about the black holes, but I get the impression that's supposed to be one of the more handwaved bits."

dlpulver says, "Antimatter is too heavy to easily contain..."

MarkW says, "Not in a quick glance, David. I can see a need for lots of illustrations in the equipment chapter. Well, the non-nano ones at least"

apoc527 says, "TS seems really up my alley, I'm actually studying to be a genetic engineer...go ahead ask me something!"

coyote6 [to Martinl]: $25,000

dlpulver says, "Pretty much, judunson..."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Other than justification for everyone being "allowed" modifications (especially early on in their development), none that I can think of.

dlpulver says, "Okay: how easy is it to clone from non-reproductive cells, such as hair samples? "

Anthony has connected.

Martinl says, "I saw them. I think that a lot of the belters would build and sell Mt level nukes if they had customers though. The implications for terrorism are disturbing"

dlpulver says, "Too permissive a regulatory environment?"

Kurt says, "Frex - the US is about >-< this close to outlawing cloning experiments. Why would a later government be so gracious with TS technology?"

apoc527 says, "well that depends on what method of cloning you are talking about. There are actually quite a few ways to do this...(more)"

Anthony says, "bah, if antimatter is only $100,000 per gram who needs nukes"

dlpulver says, "Well, Liang Mountain is selling fusion bomb components and nukes..."

azathoth has disconnected.

MarkW says, "Is it possible? I thought latest research was implying teleomeres(sp?) were heavily involved in a sucessful cloning?"

Martinl says, "Nuke proliferation in the belt is probably 'anyone who wants one and has the money"

Anthony [to dlpulver]: based on how its supposedly manufactured, $100M/gram seems more appropriate

jdunson [to Martinl]: IIRC nukes have some significant nonlinear scaling issues. Generally, a bunch of small ones is better than a big one.

dlpulver says, "I suspect that should be a million a gram... but antimatter is tightly controlled by govt monopolies. And the containment systems are quite heavy."

SwiftOne [to Kurt]: Same reason US govt had to back off on crypto...they fall behind in the market

Anthony [to jdunson]: well, there are nonlinear effects in their size as well

dlpulver says, "I may upgrade the cost significantly -- though their are arguments that mercury facility wouldbe more efficient."

Anthony [to dlpulver]: well, if a mercury station costs 10 billion per year and produces 100 grams per year...

Martinl says, "Big one get better press. ;)"

SwiftOne [to MarkW]: Telomeres shouldn't be too hard to correct by 2100.

Kurt [to SwiftOne]: Good point. Maybe that'd explain why "We're #3!" in 2100.

Anthony [to dlpulver]: which is about right given its description in the text

CraigR [to dlpulver]: Doesn't matter. If you can create and contain antimatter, you have a close to unlimited supply of energy.

MarkW says, "What _is_ the value of a GURPS $1 tied to in TS? Is there anything close to a universal currency?"

vitruvian says, " (to Kurt) but we try harder... :-)"

jdunson says, "One possible issue - given tech necessary to make particle beam weapons perform at Vehicles levels, AM production is much more effective"

apoc527 says, "I should point out that reactivating telomerase is a major cause of cancer. In other words, something you don't want to do.""

Anthony [to jdunson]: they don't

Kurt [to vitruvian]: Good point. :)

Kurt [to apoc527]: Not until you can cure cancer, that is.

dlpulver says, "US dollar and Euro are pegged about the same. It's in the Characters chapter. We assumed for compatability with other GURPS books that we wouldn't inflate everything. Basically, $ gurps dollar = $TS dollar, but salaries are inflated as is any static expense like land in a fifth wave."

Anthony . o O ( hm...fusion power is $200/kw, prorated over 200,000 hours, 1 MWH is $1 )

apoc527 says, "Right, but cancer is a genetic disease."

MarkW says, "Interesting, apoc527. What about selective reactivations? That where out equiv of anagathics was heading two-three years ago."

Kurt [to apoc527]: hence the need to decode the genetic sequences.

jdunson says, "I may have missed it, but why not more "cylinder through torus" designs for warships? Allows for central particle beam and spun section."

Anthony . o O ( 1 gram = 2500 MWH, so minimum cost is $5,000 )

SwiftOne [to apoc527]: You'll have to let me brag about when I challenged Ian Watson sometime, it makes me so happy....

dlpulver says, "I think the text mentions that reactivating TM is something you do in conjunction with nanotech to control cancer."

vitruvian says, "There were some cryptic references to Chinese-tradition martial arts masters on Rust Mars. Any chance there's a secret monastery somewhere on Olympus Mons?"

Anthony [to jdunson]: well, if you don't mind the torus being shot off

Holschuh says, "Must go, bye"

apoc527 says, "yep, Kurt, genomics is going to be incredible when it's finally well understood."

MarkW says, "Crouching Catgirl, Hidden Skullcat?"

Anthony [to jdunson]: armoring the torus is a challenge

Holschuh has disconnected.

dlpulver says, ""Partly because it's complex to design in play, mainly because it's heavy and warships like to have acceleration. The small crews possible through automation and the Tenjin biochemistry hack make spin sections mostly useful on large habitats or tourist vessels."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Is Napster the beginnings of Nanosocialism?

Martinl says, "Idea: You could build mech/nano/bio contructs that could live in the atmospheres of the gas giants. The potential living space is immense"

vitruvian says, "Maybe there's a variation on the Metatron brain bug that induces a Zen state rather than a theistic one and helps 'moving Zen' (i.e., martial arts) as well..."

MarkW says, "Napster = beginning of InfoBarter"

dlpulver says, "Kurt: to some extent, but also what South Africa is doing with aids, widespread piracy of software everywhere, etc."

Anthony [to Martinl]: not clear why that's better than deep space, tho

jdunson [to Anthony]: Torus holds hab areas, helpful for long duration flights but ultimately loosable in combat. IE, don't armor them for combat. Hmm... perhaps even 'drop tank' hab sections designed to be jettisoned.

Kurt [to MarkW]: But its like bartering with your neighbors stuff.

Martinl says, "If you're a fanatic for some meme or another, exploiting that space for your meme first is desireable..."

MarkW [to Kurt]: = Not if its coming from your system, and your drive...

Anthony [to jdunson]: if you want gravity habitats, I'd actually use a small habitat on a tether

dlpulver says, "Martinl, the Green Duncanites want to do that. I think it' smentioned in the text that they're thinking of it."

Anthony [to jdunson]: just reel it in when you need to

jdunson [to Anthony]: That's another issue, the assumption seems to be that spin sections are on arms rather than tethers, which seems a bit peculiar.

Anthony [to dlpulver]: tethered habitats might be worth mentioning

dlpulver says, "If we can have consise rules for tethered habitats, I'm for it."

Martinl says, "Gas giants are massive amoutns of raw materials - a majot problem in space"

MarkW says, "So are we going to find a Jovian ecology?"

dlpulver says, "Easier to right up, too... build as small subhull, come up with a mass for the tether based on a fraction of total subhull mass..."

SwiftOne says, "Gas giants are also a source of massive gravity, another major problem in space :)"

Martinl says, "We might *build* a Jovian ecology"

Anthony says, "hm...probably about .001 tons of tether per ton of tethered mass per mile of length ;)"

CapnQ says, "Aren't gas giants also radiation hellholes, though?"

jdunson says, "I believe that if we've got tech for even a Martian beanstalk, tethered ships / habs should work well."

Anthony says, "if you can build a beanstalk, tethers are easy"

Martinl says, "Or someone might have already on the sly. it happened on Europa and Mars, after all"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: I think you need to make it a bit clearer that the early telepresence expeditions and later commercial explotation on Mars, etc. sufferd lag time. Reading it straight from the text, that's not obvious.

Anthony says, "maybe .01 tons"

dlpulver says, "Incidentally, a consise rule for gravity-assisted accelerations as you scream by planets would be helpful. I'm not great at that sort of thing!"

dlpulver says, "Something like that. "

Anthony . o O ( eh. As MA )

MarkW says, "Hmm...are there tether-based power stations in orbit around the gas giants?"

Anthony says, "I doubt its all that useful given TS drives"

dlpulver says, "tether stations or gravity assit?"

jdunson [to dlpulver]: or .tech has had some discussion on that in the last week or so, with equations. I'll try and dig out.

Anthony says, "gravity assist"

Martinl The low temperatures avialable on pluto and further out make for some interesing ultra-low temperature possibilities

dlpulver says, "There may be a few situations where it's worth covering..."

Anthony says, "its usually only a few miles per second"

Anthony says, "maybe slow boats to/from saturn"

jdunson says, "Usually, what you mostly get is a *plane change*. "

dlpulver says, "By the way, I finally settled on the pulse drives as the basic military and civil option, downgraded to 10 tons/space thrust and with ISP 14400."

jdunson says, "Think 'Interplanetary Bat-Turn' :)"

Anthony says, "yah, I noticed"

Anthony says, "makes sense"

MarkW says, "Something I'm beginning to worry about: Is TS really going to be approachable to a GM without a good science background? Players?"

SwiftOne says, "It should be covered, because even if it's uncommon in the setting, it'll be much more common for the players :)"

Anthony blehs about miles per second

vitruvian says, "Somebody mentioned crossovers before... Quantum computers and/or playing with black holes could be the perfect justification for an alternate Crosstime campaign to the one in GURPS Time Travel. After all, qcs are in some sense supposed to search through all the possibilities of the 'multiverse', so they might at least allow communication. Creating a physical portal would be a bit more difficult, of course..."

MarkW says, "I've got a BS in physics, but I can't expect that from playres"

dlpulver says, "Mark, I lack a good science background and so try to explain things simply in the book. Sometimes to th efrustration of folks like Anthony and MA. So, hopefully, yes..."

apoc527 says, "question about personal weaponry: How about more esoteric projectile weapons like liquid propellent and electrothermal enhancement from UT2?"

Anthony says, "btw, you might mention colliding primordial black holes as a doomsday weapon"

MarkW says, "Good to hear, David. Suprising considering your work on how'd you become the resident uber-Gearhead?"

dlpulver says, "I may include the liquid propellent option and ET. I _will_ mention colliding black holes in Deep Beyond, and maybe here. Deep Beyond will be the big Black Hole book in the sense of devoting 10 pages or so to them.I"

MarkW says, "Liquid propellent really doesn't play out. Looked into this years ago with 2300AD."

Ral gets a wistful look in his eyes at the mention of 2300AD.

dlpulver says, "It's cool for artillery. i think VE/UT may have been overoptimist about it. I figure caseless will come in as a result of 3D printing."

jdunson [to Anthony]: I'm not sure colliding them is that much more of a doomsday issue than one on a collision course. Destroying the asteriod is the *wrong* answer...

Anthony [to MarkW]: there's electrothermal-chemical as per traveller

MarkW says, "Liquids are great for weapons where storage of ammo is troublesome, like large guns. For personal weapons, not particular useful."

Anthony [to jdunson]: no, a primordial black hole can go through a planet causing negligible damage

apoc527 says, "how about ET? As David just said, caseless weapons will also probably be around."

MarkW says, "Electrothermal I don't konw a lot about."

Anthony [to jdunson]: if you collide some of them, you get enough energy release to crack the moon in half

dlpulver says, "Collide two and you and get nasty physics. We actually checked this out with friends of Kromm who were non-gamer physicists."

MarkW says, "The 2300 take on electromag weapons was just ludicrous, htough."

dlpulver says, "You get a big energy release."

Ral say, "I seem to remember that being Hawking's possible explanation for Tunguska: primordial blackhole passing through."

apoc527 says, "speaking of Emag guns, I'm assuming that's too advanced to be used in real small arms?"

CraigR thinks 3D printing would make for some very lifelike humanoid robots. :)

dlpulver says, "I think Tungusku is pretty well established as comet or asteroid airburst these days..."

Anthony nods.

MarkW says, "Not really, just a really bad idea in most places, Apoc527."

Anthony says, "btw, 3d printing needs foxing"

Anthony says, "either it should be much slower"

Anthony says, "or it should use incredibly expensive MEMS goop to do the manufacturing"

dlpulver says, "Real small arms in the setting? Actually, no, but I was pressed for time and didn't do all the Vehicles calcuations. They're kind of like stuff like the H*K P-90 today. If you work the calcuations with the power cell densities listed, you find it's tricky to get more than about 50-60 shots unless you're shooting really tiny low damage rounds."

MarkW says, "Too much signature, inefficient use of energy. Can almost always pack more energy density into chemical propellent rather than battrey"

Martinl says, "Bizarre idea: ice age animals like mammoths might be good easily adpatable to Mars. The Mammoth herds of Olypus mons and the Sabertooths who hunt them...."

jdunson says, "Hmm. If it is that dramatic, and given how many have been found, why have we not seen the results or after effects of collisions? Sounds like the odds of a collision having happened within our ability to detect it should have happened...."

dlpulver says, "I can slow it down. But this is 100 years advanced on the tech..."

apoc527 says, "that's interesting..I don't know much about physics"

vitruvian says, "Of course, the most logical crossover using information transfer through a quantum computer would be TS/Reign of Steel. Talk about feeding a culture's paranoia..."

Anthony [to jdunson]: its incredibly rare

MarkW says, "Mammoths? Air isn't dense enough at .59 atmos"

Anthony says, ".59 atm is way high ;)"

Anthony says, "it implies a thicker atmosphere than earth"

SwiftOne shudders at the thought of Mammoths in low grav...

dlpulver says, "Not if they're in aasteroids..."

apoc527 says, "what about true lasers? I noticed electrolasers, but those are obviously not useful in a vacuum (or are they?)"

Ral shudders at the thought of mammoth stools in low-g.

Anthony [to jdunson]: more to the point, they have to pass within 10^-14 meters of each other...

MarkW says, "I meant to say something about pressure."

MarkW says, "You were right though, Anthony."

Martinl says, "Genegeneered mammoths, ofc. But the look and feel might be worth tourist dollars and eco-freak support"

dlpulver says, "Assume a million large asteroid and 100 black holes. And the physics of collision are VERY tricky cause the holes are molecule sized. You have to be VERY precise to get a collision."

Anthony [to apoc527]: hard to get a usable smallarms l;aser

MarkW says, "Real lasers are again bad ideas from a small arms standpoint. Laser-ignited chemical explosives are an interesting tech, though"

apoc527 says, "from all this talk, I'm assuming TS is a really hard science "fiction" game (haven't read the files yet, just saw them)"

dlpulver says, "I'll probably work up one as a backpack mounted battlesuit/large cybershell system for personal defense vs. missiles and long range sniping."

Anthony says, "I think I worked one up."

dlpulver says, "Somewhat hard sf. In comparison to much of previous RPG work, very hard sf. In comparison to the real world, otpimistic in some areas, less so in others, some fudging."

MarkW says, "Don't know whats been done with 'em, though. Had a friend at the Firefight 2000 conference Dean Ing wrote about years ago...going off that."

Anthony says, "it has damage problems"

vitruvian says, "What are computer *interfaces* like? All voice control, imagery, VR, direct interface, or is there still some use of paper (albeit probably an interactive electronic version)? Is there still a niche market for things like hand crafts and live theatre, or can people just not tell the difference anymore with 60 million polygons available in VR?"

Anthony says, "any suit will shrug it off"

apoc527 says, "what kinds of effective Zero-G weapons are we thinking?"

Anthony [to apoc527]: micro-missiles?

MarkW says, "Monofillament shotguns"

Janus has connected.

Martinl nanobot Shotguns?

dlpulver says, "You sent me an example, yes. I think you can do one as a good police sniper weapon."

JohnRTroy has connected.

CapnQ says, "Idea: genemodded miniature animals as pets: micromammoths, etc."

Janus waves and sighs, forgot about the chat again.

apoc527 says, "reminds of something from that most evil game, Warhammer 40K...something about Eldar Deathspinners"

Martinl says, "Hi"

Anthony says, "btw, you actually can shoot lasers into atmosphere"

dlpulver says, "Computer interfaces treated at length in chapter 3. Look for the Augmented Reality section."

Ral . o O ( Potbellied ellephants! )

jdunson says, "Hmm. So the likely result of two holebearers colliding is their holes slingshot each other. Given how often asteriods go crunch, is it actually reasonable that so many still have holes? Implications about early-solar system densities of the things, and influence on planetary formation."

Anthony says, "you just have to pulse the beam to move the air out of the way"

Anthony says, "I think I worked out that the atmosphere would be something like cDR 10, which sorta slows you down, but doesn't make it impossible"

JohnRTroy says, "Might want to make change a little bit of the computer terminology. I doubt VR would use a "Markup Language""

MarkW says, "Ionizing atmosphere with big-a** lasers follwed by particle beams on the other hand...."

dlpulver says, "So many don't have holes. The trick to prospecting is to look for an asteroid that it's good shape with an old surface, and hope. Me, I'd be checking the Kupiper belt. But I think there's a modest chance we might handwave more on the large number of holes in a sequel series."

dlpulver says, "Plese send me notes on orbit to ground laser fire..."

dlpulver says, ""

Anthony [to MarkW]: not useful if you didn't start out in atmosphere

dlpulver says, "in playtest"

Martinl says, "The aliens theory is not outrageous - it might be a form of bootstrapping:"

MarkW [to Anthony]: = misunderstood

dlpulver says, "Sure. As I said, JohnRTroy, I think some of the tech naming is very twen-cen and needs some good upgrading."

dlpulver says, "This is a relevant theme for playtest"

Martinl says, "If this planet produces life bearing sapients, there will be FTL tranmitter cores available to them...."

dlpulver says, "I take no position on whether the Aliens Meme is correct o rnot (:"

CraigR . o O ( FTL? In TS? )

jdunson [to JohnRTroy]: We do have VRML exisiting today in RL, so extrapolatons are likely

dlpulver says, "Vignettes: more, less, or just right?"

Martinl says, "But it is certainly possible"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Reminded my of "Invasion of the Air Eaters", but with nanobotsd instead of honkin' big atmosphere converters.

Anthony . o O ( more )

Anthony says, "actually, more small ones"

Anthony says, "like the 'top 6 foods' and so on"

coyote6 says, "Yeah, those are great."

Anthony says, "atmosphere rather than fiction"

Martinl says, "Any thought on interstellar Von Nuemann Probes? Certainly possible, and I can see certain 21cen "geen" memes thinking of them as a duty."

vitruvian says, "Was Biotech Euphrates originally Biotech Chulan from Biotech?"

dlpulver says, "Gotcha. I don't have space to ADD stuff, but I can CHANGE stuff into vignettes, and the top five lists are not space consuming."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: I really liked the vignette about the woman starting her day. That's the kind of flavor that brings the setting to life.

MarkW says, "Thought: Is G:Chtorr what happens when an alien TS campaign meets Earth?<G>"

Martinl says, "More vins!"

coyote6 says, "Did I mention how much I liked the 'Surreal Thing'? I just want to know who does the commercials for it..."

apoc527 says, "what do you think of ET weapons fired with lasers?" to MarkW"

jdunson agrees with Anthony. The 'top X' lists are good. One vig per chapter start minimum, but perhaps tighter, with more interspersed

apoc527 says, "doh"

dlpulver says, "BioTech Euphrates is in BioTech. BioTech Chulan is a different company, and appears in GURPS Space Atlas 4"

JohnRTroy says, "Well, computer languages evolve over time. So I doubt it would be a markup language. I'll have to dig up the articles on how language is changing and what would provide. Full Immersive reality has more requirements than VRML or other items"

MarkW says, "I agree with Kurt, re: vignettes"

dlpulver says, "Tighter in space, or tighter written?"

Anthony says, "it may not be a descriptive language anyway"

Anthony says, "You probably go out and buy a 'house' program"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: It shows just exactly *how* pervasive the tech is.

MarkW [to apoc527]: That's a big question...

dlpulver says, "Thanks. It was one of my favorites (woman starting day). Note that one ties in with the chapter 1 vignette"

Anthony says, "and a 'dog' program"

apoc527 says, "what's the command for that? (the to player thing)"

dlpulver says, "Did the Exogenesis vignette seem good or not? I could move it to Deep Beyond..."

Anthony says, "there's probably something like a 'VR interface specification' which affects how VR objects interact"

jdunson [to dlpulver]: IMO, the BioTech ones had a bit more 'snap per column inch' than these do so far.

dlpulver says, "Surreal Thing was Kromm's idea!"

MarkW says, "Type '<name> <message>"

Martinl says, "Gotta go. Has been interesting. Will follow playtest and try to contribute. Good memeing!"

Martinl isn't here anymore. You're almost sure.

dlpulver says, "Gotcha, Jdunso, can try and improve..."

MarkW says, "Type p<name> <message> for private"

dlpulver says, "I tried to make sure the setting wasn't just guns and spaceships in terms of tech."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Any idea on TS fiction?

dlpulver says, "Love to write it, but SJG isn't doing fiction ... yet."

Kurt points at the "yet" and taps his foot impatiently.

CraigR grins

jdunson says, "given light lag, some sort of descriptive shorthand language for common settings will be almost certain. You put in a short code for a typical tree or chair, and let the other computer do most of the work."

apoc527 says, "nice of you to do that David, guns and spaceships already exists in many other forms"

dlpulver says, "If TS does well, it's a _possibility_ "

SwiftOne [to dlpulver]: just tell us how many pre-orders we have to offer to get him to change his mind.

Kurt decides to start on his TS novel tomorrow, just in case.

Anthony [to jdunson]: well, most VRs would be fairly local

dlpulver says, "There's a residual disdain for gamer fiction as well: some people have been burned before."

apoc527 says, "what's the projected release date of the first book?"

CraigR idles for a sec, and knows he'll regret it on the read-back. :)

Anthony says, "hm"

CapnQ says, "Fiction seems to me something for SJG to license rather than publish."

Anthony ponders using a shadow as an answering machine

Kurt [to dlpulver]: That's only because I haven't written any yet.

Kurt ducks.

Anthony says, "you should discuss the turing test on shadows ;)"

dlpulver says, "The distinction between Ghosts and Shadows is a little artificially sharp, but I did want to make Dying a serious thing in TS, unless GURPS autoduel or vanilla TL9 gurps."

Anthony says, "how to figure out that you're talking to one"

coyote6 [to apoc527]: Dec. 3, 2001

Anthony says, "since people _will_ use shadows to filter out annoying callers"

dlpulver says, "It wouldn't be easy and it would take a while. Call it again an hour or two later. But remember, a shadow can be partnered with an existing AI... it's complex."

jdunson [to Anthony]: A shadow would actually be an 'answereing machine', not just a recorder. Much interaction may be mediated and filtered before people see it. 5th wave folks may get far *less* email, phone calls, etc. than we do today.

dlpulver says, "I will try to discuss more on Turing tests. It's not an area I'm very competent in myself."

JohnRTroy says, "Using Memetic enginering, could you create a form of copy-protection for the brain?"

Anthony says, "you can do that without memetic engineering"

SwiftOne says, "The problem with Turing tests is that people can't always pass them :)"

Anthony says, "I know many people who are quite impervious to new ideas"

JohnRTroy says, "I wasn't certain, still observing this"

apoc527 <- coyote6> <does this work?>

dlpulver says, "I hope the concept of having computer shadows, AIs, etc. proves playhable. Doing them as Allies was the best way I could think of to easily game them out. You train them..."

Anthony [to SwiftOne]: I wasn't referring to turing tests as a measure of sentience

Kurt says, "Why would you need a Shadow answering machine when Personal Agents could do the job? Unless you're trying to be duplicitous, of course."

Anthony [to Kurt]: exactly

dlpulver says, "Basically, you grow with your AIs... a fairly low grade model you've had for years may be better than a full sapient just out of the box"

CraigR returns

coyote6 [to dlpulver]: Hopefully, you don't end up with Lensmen-like inflation because of it, though. :)

apoc527 says, "well, I'm gonna have to go read the playtest files...I'm sure there will be more chats like this one"

MarkW says, "So could a Shadow be turned?"

apoc527 has disconnected.

Anthony [to dlpulver]: I think the software costs need to be updated along with the hardware costs ;)

SwiftOne [to Anthony]: No, but in addition to deciding you're talking to a person, you also have to decide if you're talking to a program.

dlpulver says, "I did update all the software costs..."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: I think players (mine, anyway) will jump at the chance to "play" multiple entities. It will add new levels of complexity to the game, and give them more "toys" to play with (Gads - power gamers .. . .)

jdunson [to Kurt]: Layered defenses. Low-level software agents and infosorters on the outside, followed by expert systems (including ones expert on *you*), followed by one or more shadows. Some may have ghost layers inside that.

SwiftOne [to Anthony]: witness the reactions of people when you accuse them of being a bot.

Anthony says, "I was thinking more like x10 cost per +1 complexity ;)"

MarkW says, "AIs growing with you = shades of Daniel Keys Moran."

vitruvian says, "would it be a common Delusion for people to think that their personal agents have grown to sapience when they haven't really?"

dlpulver says, "That's possible. John Zeigler argued for x2 per level to reflect ease of duplication."

dlpulver says, "I'm willing to enterain arguments"

Anthony says, "well, at +1 skill per +1 complexity, x2 per level is probably about right"

Anthony says, "but then I'd argue you can get +1 skill without +1 complexity for x10 cost ;)"

SwiftOne says, "One of the coolest things of the information age is free copying, and most settings hand wave "copy protection that will work". Bah."

Kurt says, "Delusion - Agent Sapience?"

dlpulver says, "Mechanismis"

MarkW says, "A 'turned' shadow/Agent would do wonders for a high paranoia game. Even if it can't be done, just have the players 'think' it could be"

dlpulver says, "Mechanismism"

Anthony says, "in terms of actually programming effort, I'd go with around x20 per +1 complexit"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Used to be call Personification in the old days. :)

Anthony says, "sicne it takes longer to write _and_ sells fewer copies"

vitruvian says, "Sure, but specific to one's agent, that has gotten *so* good at anticipating and reacting to your needs."

Anthony has to eave

dlpulver says, "For initial cost, or for duplicates aftewrward"

CapnQ says, "Delusion: I'm smarter than my Agents ;-)"

Kurt [to Anthony]: Later!

jdunson says, "One of the issues I faced in my Space campaign is why even non-AI computers have not replaced humans in more places. The 'do not multiply mental skill points by 4' option for EM is one I came up with independantly to help, BTW"

SwiftOne says, "Person to Agent: Can you..."

vitruvian says, "Heh- that's even better. Jeeves and Wooster- the Transhuman years."

SwiftOne says, "Agent to Person: Read your mind? Of course not."

dlpulver says, "I'm curious if people though tthe tech was optimistic or pessimistic in general? Did it feel like 2100, or more like 2020 with space travel and cat girls?"

Janus has disconnected.

Kurt [to SwiftOne]: hehe

dlpulver says, "Kind of like Traveller is 1970 with space ships (:"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Actually, in some ways, it felt maybe a bit TOO advanced, but I can't quite put my finger on why. .

jdunson says, "Overall, the feel I got was 'definately optimistic, possible if not probable'"

MarkW says, "Honestly, it seems like 2100 in most other games...givne the TS tech timeline, probalby a little too "not out there""

dlpulver says, "Well, too advanced is always good - we can sell to the Transhumanist lobby (:"

MarkW says, "Ie, RL would be a lot weireder"

SwiftOne says, "I'm still working through the draft, but I'll let you know. I personally think change happens slower than the tech allows (where are my flying cars!), so 2100 is a good time lag"

vitruvian says, "I thought it split the difference between optimism and playability quite nicely... just not sure about mature nanotech not being around yet. Maybe more on the obstacles (technical, not political)?"

tarkuss has connected.

tarkuss says, "Hi all"

jdunson says, "I *hope* Vasmir/ M2P2 works as well as this, but NASA is not that optimistic; saw some baseline 2040 stuff from a NASA friend recently, there' not expecting it working by then"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Don't take my word for it, however, as I'm a misanthropic pessimist.

tarkuss says, "Lemme guess, I missed the fragging chat again, right?"

dlpulver says, "It started at 8"

MarkW [to jdunson]: Is that the plasma torch?

tarkuss says, "I'm in California, what time would that be here? :)"

Kurt says, "6"

dlpulver says, "We're still on... I think Vasmir is mostly the drive/nozzle system, isn't it?"

tarkuss says, "Bah, I was still at work then :P"

dlpulver says, "You can run it with either nuclear or electric or whatever?"

CraigR [to tarkuss]: Well, he's still here, and the log is still on, so... :)

MarkW says, "Im thinking of the drive profiled in a Wired article a few months back."

tarkuss says, "Oh, cool :)"

dlpulver says, "I'm still here. Ask me anything!"

vitruvian says, "Technical obstacles to mature nanotech by 2100?"

dlpulver says, "Playtest files are up, playtest is on go for Friday"

tarkuss says, "So, will THS follow the Pulverian tradition of featuring catgirls? If so, I'm grabbing it the instant it comes out. If not, I'll wait a couple of instants, then grab it :)"

jdunson [to MarkW]: Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion, AKA M2P2 or Vasmir, is the current RL term for what THS has eveolved into the Plasma Sail.

MarkW [to jdunson]: Thanks.

dlpulver says, "I've heard a wide number of them, but issues like programming and replication and exactly how well diamond will work come to mind. Also heat difficulties."

SwiftOne says, "Catgirls are okay. Just no spider people."

Ral say, "Catgirls are more than okay."

dlpulver says, "One big limit on the plasma sail is you can only have one such module on your vehicle. So if you want something large, it will be very slow."

vitruvian says, "I would think energy sources as well..."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Are you going to delve more deeply into the sociological implications as relates to family structures? Open marriages? No marriage? Group marriage a'la HEinlein? I assume you'd go for the "all options are available if you look hard enough" angle.

MarkW says, "Why just one module?"

tarkuss says, "Oh yeah, that's one of the big attractions of Technomancer. At first, I was reading it and saying "This is cool." Then I came to the part about the cat chimerae and half-cats, and said "I must have this book NOW!""

dlpulver says, "I'd like to have a section on family life but I may have to wait for the Earth book due to space..."

jdunson [to dlpulver]: I'm not so sure about that, was meaning to check on it for playtest. Main limitation is you are limited to solar wind speeds, but I think you can inflate a larger area to drive a larger ship at those speeds.

dlpulver says, "Just because the one module is sufficient to get the big bubble you need; as it's a sail and limited by the solar wind."

JohnRTroy has disconnected.

jdunson says, "So, yes, you can only have one plasma sail, but in game terms one for a large enough ship might take multiple spaces for generators, etc."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: How about some mention of "The Future" as in: What are futurists in 2100 saying the next 25-100 years will bring?

SwiftOne [to Kurt]: Ooo! good idea!

MarkW says, "A non-TS question for David: I haven't had a chance to leaf through BESM, 2nd yet. Does it contain the smae info as the robots and the gunbunnies supplements?"

jdunson says, "For instance, if Darktree in 2140 is the Virginia thing, has planning started yet?"

MarkW says, "Or do you still need those with the 2nd edition?""

CraigR watches Davis' brain try to crawl out his ear and hide.

dlpulver says, "Well, bring it up in the playtest..."

CraigR s/Davis'/David's/

vitruvian says, "I would think that there would be a drive to reduce transport costs to/from Earth, even if a beanstalk is not feasible yet. What advances have been made in terms of laser launching, electromag momentum transfer stations in orbit, and so on to reduce launch costs below what you can get with chemical propellants?"

tarkuss says, "BESM2 has absolutely everything in it. You should buy the book."

dlpulver says, "BESM 2e incorporates about 80% of the robots supplement minus the scenario and genre-specific guidelines and the sample mecha. It incorporates about 40% of the Gun Bunies supplement notably some of hte combat rules and the skill system. It has large amounts of new material, over 100 pages of same."

MarkW says, "Ah, thanks. Was a little put off by the price tag if I still needed the other books. Will pick up soon ,then."

tarkuss says, "Hey cool! THS has some names and such I recognize from Bio-Tech!"

dlpulver says, "Kurt, I do not want to tie myself down on that this early in the setting, without looking at the other books. I'll limit myself to the singularity discussion. Because I do want to do a sequel..."

vitruvian says, "Followup on 'The Future'- is there still such a genre as science fiction? And how much in the way of role playing is set in science fiction settings as opposed to fantasy or nostalgic ones?"

Kurt says, "BESM is great, and I'm not just sucking up. My "Oyu Kids" campaign was a success."

jdunson [to vitruvian]: Almost all the alternatives you mention require significant ground and/or orbital infrastructure. Good if you've got 'em, limiting if you don't.

CraigR [to dlpulver]: Have you ever read TIMEMASTER, by Forward? There's an interesting bit of tether-tech mentioned at the beginning, a Terravator, a flipflopping orbitting beanstalk deal.

vitruvian says, " (to jdunson) Right, but this is Earth, the place with 11 billion people, so presumably the most important market..."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Well, you wouldn't be "tying yourself down" - when has any futurist been right? Where's my flying car, and our Moon Bases? :)

dlpulver says, ""There's a section on launch costs in chapter 2. But basically, they are reduced by laser launch where big lasers or small payloads are available and by use of ultralight hull materials plus chemical rockets making SSTO fairly cheap. On low-gee locations various odd techniques exist. And possibly some big towers on Earth.T"

tarkuss says, "Some day, I've gotta run Interface (sort of cyber-fantasy but not really like Shadowrun, and with Neko- and Kitsune-series bioroids)"

MarkW says, "I'm fairly happy with BESM 1st, doing an IOU campaign next week with it. Since 2nd is supposed to be ever more generic and developed, it may just become my main system"

tarkuss says, "In BESM"

dlpulver says, "Tarkuss, THS is the world book of the BioTech vignettes up to about TL10."

tarkuss says, "Cool!"

dlpulver says, ""I'm sure there's science fiction. G"

dlpulver says, "Glad you like BESM, Kurt!"

jdunson [to CraigR]: The rotating not-quite-stalks are cool, but give actual engineers more heebie-jeebies than many other options....

tarkuss says, "And what about after TL10? :)"

MarkW says, "I wanna see what alternate history in the TS universe is like"

CraigR cackles and nods at jdunson. :)

dlpulver says, ""I do not know as much about tether physics as I'd like..."

CapnQ says, "Like rock-and-roll, SF will never die. But it will probably get weirder. :-) "

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Are you still the head honcho for BESM, since coming on board with SJG?

dlpulver says, "I am very pleased with Second Edition -- I think it's some of my best game design work ever. I'm quite happy that it's winning over a number of non-anime Hero System fans..."

CraigR [to jdunson]: that's why you put in around world with little to no atmosphere, like the Moon.

tarkuss says, "Yeah! BESM2 is the REAL Champions-Lite."

dlpulver says, "I am no longer an employee of GOO, but am still on staff as a part time freelancer and am still the anime line developer, handling things like freelancers and development of the BESM line."

jdunson [to CraigR]: Problem with moon is mascon pertubaton. Lunar infrastructure is probably evolved enough by THS to support the reaction mass it'd take, though.

tarkuss says, "Not Fuzion, although that system can be good for some things, if you use the Atomik plugins at least. But it's no Champs-killer."

MarkW says, "David, is your situation with SJG unusual for the industry? Being a line editor for one company, and freelancer for another?"

tarkuss says, "You know if they're (GOO) gonna release anything cool soon?"

vitruvian says, "There was one scheme involving satellites that were essentially huge magrails- they would accelerate ships coming up on a suborbital trajectory from Earth, and decelerate ships coming in, balancing the momentum and storing electricity from the deceleration. They were mostly for inanimate payloads, with a more complex system for catching manned ships. Of course, the timing and positioning would have to be pretty exact at those speeds. "

MarkW says, "My understanding is that Chris Pramas caught lots of excrement from WotC about him working (if not owning?) Green Ronin."

SwiftOne [to MarkW]: I've heard of others openly moonlighting. The profession doesn't pay enough :)

dlpulver says, "Not that unusual, I'd say. It was reversed before: I was freelancing forSJG and line editing for BESM! But not too unusual: I think there are a few other people who do this. "

MarkW says, "I was wondering if GOO and SJG, or WotC was the more unusual case."

SwiftOne says, "WOTC is no SJG."

dlpulver says, "SJG and GOO have been good about both, but my dual status is noted in my contracts and spells out what I can and cannot do."

MarkW says, "Thank Ghu, SwiftOne."

jdunson says, "One of the things I want to look at is if THS tech is enough to do dynamic structure stalks. I think it's probably close, and for non-Earth situations may actually be better than physical/material supported ones."

dlpulver says, "I'm not sure ... try asking on the Business newsgroup on Pyramid"

Kurt says, "What about the rotating tethers that grab capsules at the edge of the atmosphere and then sling them out-system? Were those already covered? "

vitruvian says, "Okay, here's another question. It's mentioned that the oldest living humans may be as much as 140. What shape are they generally in? Mostly rejuevenated? That age range would cover a lot of us Pyramid subscribers..."

dlpulver says, "Not covered yet. Again, I'm not sure how to stat these in game terms, and with fusion drives, delta vee may not be spectacular."

SwiftOne [to MarkW]: I'm certainly no expert, I'm jsut passing on "what 'they' say"

Kurt has visions of us chatting in 2100 and isn't sure that's a good thing. :)

tarkuss says, "I wanna upload my mind onto a computer!"

dlpulver says, "Mostl rejuvied, I'd guess. Or ghosts (:"

jdunson says, "I was having similar wonderings. What birth year did people hit break-even before decripitude, in the first world?"

vitruvian says, "Boo!"

tarkuss says, "Although I spend too much time on computers anyhow, and I wouldn't be able to walk or ride bikes anymore..."

dlpulver says, "I think it's listed somewhere. Probably around 2070 if you're rich."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: They are for low-priority cargo where time isn't too big an issue, but would also be good for Earth-Moon transit. NO engines needed, so more room for cargo-passengers.

dlpulver says, "There's a segment on this in chapter 4"

dlpulver says, "There's a question of how much low priority cargo there is worth shipping..."

MarkW says, "Would the concept of ancestry mean much in the TS world? Given bio-wombs, the numbers of descendents possible for someone alive now is staggering."

dlpulver says, "Given you often have to boost out of a gravity well"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: People - haven't you read about the Triads? :)

dlpulver says, "True."

dlpulver says, ""

dlpulver says, "There is a radiation issue..."

CraigR thinks about Phil Guesz's story FREEDOM CITY...

Kurt says, "Ah, we got DRUGS for that, man! You'll be fine - trust me!"

dlpulver says, "Did you spot the maple syndicate?"

jgorton has connected.

jdunson says, "Even at THS tech levels, it's expensive to ship physical objects. With 3D printing, just send a file, unless it's raw element shipping."

Kurt says, "Yup. "

dlpulver says, "I suspect they'll do that for interstellar colonization. Send the small robot probe, build a big database and a big laser com reciever, than just xox'em over with blue prints."

Kurt says, "In case anyone's interested, check out the honkin' mama of all sunspots -"

dlpulver says, "Might be worthwhile in this setting for oort cloud and post-Uranus"

vitruvian says, "Ghosts- here's an adventure seed- a cross between the English Patient and the Prisoner set in TS times. Turns out the prisoner has been brain-stripped and ghosted, and is now in a sim..."

Kurt says, "Click on the photo of the sun for a closeup."

Kurt [to vitruvian]: Would be like the episode "1, 2, 3". Those may have been braintapes, after all . . .

MarkW says, "Good lord! A sunspot 13 times bigger than us? <boggle>"

Kurt says, "Yup."

jdunson says, "One interesting question will be how the interplanetary element traffic flows. Ideally, you want to set up the THS equivalents to the classic age of sail 'triangle trade'"

dlpulver says, "pretty sunspot"

tarkuss says, "Hmm...maybe the sun's lightbulb is burning out..."

Kurt says, "Big 'ol CME due to hit us Friday."

jdunson says, "Hmm. Where 2100 is in terms of solar max vs. solar min should be in there somewhere, if not already."

MarkW says, "Hope there aren't any big games going out on the satellites..."

Regenhund walks out the glass doors to the north.

dlpulver says, "I think Jonathan may be covering the triangle trade in In the Well."

Kurt says, "CMEs and such should be included as Hazards. you mentioned radiation in general terms, but don't remember if you covered really BIG events."

Regenhund walks in from the Pyramid Plaza North.

dlpulver says, "Clasically it's Earth/Lunar - Mars - Belt , but the He3 and Nitrogen from Titan adds something"

vitruvian says, "got to go and get some sleep..."

MarkW says, "What would come from Earth that couldn't be beamed out?"

jdunson [to MarkW]: Heavy elements? Earth's crustal concentration effect is pretty strong compared to most smaller bodies.

dlpulver says, "People, some advanced biotech, stuff made in Earth orbit factories more cheaply (?)"

vitruvian has disconnected.

MarkW says, "good pont"

MarkW says, "er, point"

SwiftOne says, "I can't wait to run this past my group. They're going to flip. "

Kurt says, "Once you reach mature mini/micro/nano fac capability, you don't really need much of anything except the machine and power to run it. That's how we figured the pseudo-socialist Federation managed it in Star Trek - replicators freed the masses from work for survival and turned 'em all in to starship captains. :)"

dlpulver says, "Have fun! I hope it won't be too confusing, and has enough intrinsic adventure seeds embedded within the backgorund"

SwiftOne says, "They're also going to found the TS version of the NRA, but oh well."

dlpulver says, "One reason I didn't go with completely mature nanotech... amusing. "

jdunson says, "Curve of Binding Energy becomes familiar to far more people, I suspect. Things above iron are easier to get on large bodies with weather. Things below iron are easier to get in space."

dlpulver says, "Speaking of, hope the guns were mildly interesting. The arm gun modules were a bit different."

MarkW says, "No reason for an NRA? With 3D modelling you'll get a barrel and reciever in minutes."

MarkW says, "Chemical propellents shouldn't be too hard to do, either"

dlpulver says, "Mercury"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Like the modules. Reminded me a bit of the gun from "Fifth Elemet", albeit smaller.

tarkuss says, "OOooh, guns..."

tarkuss says, "Guns are nice..."

Ral say, "Just don't press that one button."

tarkuss says, "I love guns..."

Kurt grins.

tarkuss says, "Sorry, munchkin reflex."

MarkW says, "Gotta love Replay."

tarkuss says, "Bad Tarkuss, you need to stop obsessing over powerful hurtykilly things..."

dlpulver says, "Yah. Actually, I kind of based it on the Pop Science article on what the US Army were looking for..."

jdunson [to Kurt]: Important difference between THS and 'replicator' societies is the need for the raw materials. Hence why THS hasn't turned into something like the last bits of _Venus Equilaterial_

Kurt says, "Once you reach the "nano cloud" stage, things like armor and guns become near obsolete - unless your opponent has nanoclouds as well."

dlpulver says, "Course, you can do some mildly nasty stuff with microbots already."

MarkW says, "Of course, closed environs could also have little nanos running around that bind with the molecules of explosives and detonate"

dlpulver says, "I hope that isn't too open to player abuse. Probably need to add an emp grenade."

tarkuss says, "I read that article. It's pretty cool, although I'd prefer no killing people in the real future, but I know that's unlikely."

SwiftOne says, "If you do an EMP grenade, please get the physics right."

tarkuss says, "Hmm...emp grenade...makes me think of frying spiderbots in Deus Ex..."

jdunson [to Kurt]: I'm not so sure. Armor is still important as a *time* factor. Most nanoclouds are power/heat dissipation limited, and macroscopic armor will be a problem.

Kurt [to dlpulver]: TRUST ME - my group will abuse it. Of course, they've been abusing them for years. Like the time they used them to take out SkyNet for instance (long story. . . )

MarkW says, "Kurt, SkyNet never heard of EM hardening?"

dlpulver says, "Oh well, they're established GURPS tech anyway. I just added a bunch more options to them."

dlpulver says, "Physics and EMP, perish the thought..."

Kurt [to MarkW]: Was talking about nanomachines.

dlpulver says, "Suggestions welcome, though."

jdunson says, "I do think that 'nano-point defense' swarms will be a bit more common than what seems to be assumed."

Regenhund has disconnected.

dlpulver says, "Maybe. What do you mean?"

tarkuss says, "One, Two, Three, Four! Let's have a Toner War!"

Kurt [to dlpulver]: Well, individual nanomachines are fragile, right? Something along the lines of a high-powered "flash-bang" grenade should do the trick.

MarkW says, "EMP? Would probably be along the lines of the "EMP" artillery shells. Not nuclear (hence not EMP), but close enough for govt' work"

jdunson says, "Looking at the Marine loadout, for instance. "

jdunson [to tarkuss]: Toner War, yes. Re-read that recently.

dlpulver says, "You can use the devourers to kill other microbot swarms."

tarkuss says, "Diamond Age rules."

tarkuss says, "I liked it even more than Snow Crash, and that's saying a lot."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: flash-bangs produce upteen gazillion candlepower of photonic energy and tons of overpressure - should crush the little suckers.

CraigR agrees with Tarkuss, re Diamond Age. :)

dlpulver says, "Nice idea. Remind me in playtest"

jdunson [to dlpulver]: I assumed that. However, the devourers seem general purpose. I would assume that dedicated hunter-killer anti-nano would be better at it.

SwiftOne says, "Zodiac was the best. Different genre though."

CraigR says, "Guys, it's about midnight here, and I need to go home and get some sleep. David, Great chat, and I'll be pouring over these files in the next day or so. See you on the playtest boards."

dlpulver says, "Nice idea. Suggst in playtest..."

CraigR wavies.

CraigR says, "Goodnight."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: (salutes) Will do.

dlpulver says, "Thanks! I should get going soon also. Any final comments, questions?"

tarkuss says, "Yeah, zode was cool."

Kurt [to CraigR]: nite!

MarkW says, "Comments: Just that this looks like one helluva ride!"

tarkuss says, "I liked Cryptonomicon as well. Face it, I just plain like Neal Stephenson books."

A great number of mechanical arms and waldoes extend from the walls and ceiling, quickly breaking CraigR into his constituent parts and removing them.

dlpulver says, "Thanks Mark!"

jdunson says, "It's cool! Despite any nitpicks or odd questions, this is going to be a good one!"

MarkW says, "This is my first time in the chat. How do I exit?"

SwiftOne says, "You say nanosocialism is the 'nationalization of the idea that information wants to be free' what does that mean?"

dlpulver says, "press @quit"

Ral say, "Type @quit"

MarkW says, "Thaks. Good night, all."

Kurt [to dlpulver]: I must admit, I was sckeptical when I first heard about TS, but now that I've read the book, I'm hooked. You've got a bona-fide winner here, Mr. P. Keep it up.

MarkW has disconnected.

dlpulver says, "Again, thanks! "

dlpulver says, "Everyone's enthusiasm helps me focus..."

tarkuss says, "Well, I think I must be a magnifying glass or somethign, because I'm reading this and saying, basically, WOW! I must have this!"

Kurt says, "My only problem is that it won't hit the shelves until 12/3/01. Any ideas on later gbooks? Are they being developed at the same time?"

dlpulver says, "That's good... later gbooks?"

BenK steps out of the elevator.

jdunson [to SwiftOne]: If I'm reading right, socialism talks about removing individual ownership of the production of things, nanosocialism talks about removing individual ownership of the production of ideas.

dlpulver says, "In this series, you mean?"

Kurt says, "Yes, sorry."

dlpulver says, "That's right, jdunson"

dlpulver says, "The nanosocialist nations have mostl capitalist - in some ways - economies"

jdunson says, "Of course, with 3D printing, the distinction between things and ideas becomes *very* blurred...."

tarkuss had this idea that nanosocialists would be sort of like the drummers in Diamond Age, using nanotech as the basis of a collective society.

Kurt says, "Are the other books in the series being written concurrently, for release around the same time?"

dlpulver says, "FifthWave, High Frontier and In the Well are all partly, mostly or starting to be written, so will come out in quick succession. Their playtests will start and finish before TS appears."

Kurt says, "Sweet."

BenK slowly fades from this plane, leaving a faint afterglow of a white equilateral triangle in his wake.

SMarsh [to Kurt]: IIRC Kromm, he said basically one a month from December thru March or so...

Kurt [to SMarsh]: Thanks!

jdunson [to tarkuss]: Diamond Age, while quite nifty, has some very nonphysical assumptions about power storage, heat dissipation, and some other things. I don't think that the drummers would quite work in THS based on meat people.

Kurt looks at his calander and sighs.

dlpulver says, "Perhaps not..."

SwiftOne says, "Oo! Good speed = better marketing. "

dlpulver says, "So there should be a steady stream of stuff for playtest."

Kurt says, "But hey, I got the playtest files to tide me over. :)"

dlpulver says, "Exactly"

Ral say, "Shall I stop the log?"

Anthony ponders music in TS

dlpulver says, "Sure. Goodnight, everyone!"

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