Pyramid Chat 05/08/00: Sean Punch

David L. Pulver, Sean Punch and (hopefully) Jon F. Zeigler talk about the GURPS Transhuman Space series, an upcoming line of hard sf world books set in the solar system. Find out what developments have taken place since the last TS chat.

JFZeigler bows politely to all.

dlpulver says, "It is scheduled at this ungodly hour for those of you who might not be able to make other ones, such as post-humans, etc."

Kromm says, "For the log: GURPS TRANSHUMAN SPACE chat #2. Testing, testing."

Sauronth has connected.

cd says, "rather handy time, actually"

dlpulver says, "And also, to give JFZ a chance to hold forth a bit more, as he was lurking on the sidelines mostly last time..."

SwiftOne expresses gratitude for the unusual-hour chat

Kromm says, "And we want Europe to know about this, too :)"

dlpulver says, "So, is everyone familiar with the basic concepts?"

cd waves

dlpulver says, "Or would you like some discussion of that first?"

Ralzakark say, "What's a GURPS? ;)"

Sauronth says, ""Is this an evil plot to limit the number of attendees by holding the chat at 3pm?""

JHG baps Ralzakark! Ralzakark has been baptized.

dlpulver says, "A universal RPG."

Badman says, "Realistic colonizing of the solar system, right?"

Kromm [to Badman]: Yes.

Ralzakark say, "RPG? :P"

SwiftOne says, "I've got the concepts, but I'm curious if any major decisions have been solidified or changed since the last chat"

cd says, "okay, will this coverany transhumanist philosophy?"

Anthony says, "relatively realistic at least ;)"

JamesG has connected.

Kromm [to cd]: It will be integrated into the design, but not worn on the sleeve in a 'Philosophy' sidebar, most likely.

dlpulver says, "Yes, badman. It's also a chance to extrapolate future trends and technologies, and create a swashbuckling half-sf setting that is as fun as any space opera, and easier to GM as well."

dlpulver says, "The basic concepts -- uploading, altering your own body, smart drugs, and so on will be covered."

cd [to Kromm]: okay

dlpulver says, "Posthumans will be presented in a neutral fashion -- some people think that evolving everyone into super beings is good, others are frightened by it."

cd will probably forgo stuff like food to buy this series...

JamesG says, "Can I jast say a quick thankyou for holding the chat at a decent time :)"

Blacksmith says, "are they viewed as property or people?"

dlpulver says, "Another issue worth mentioning: this is in many ways the `world book' for GURPS Biotech's vignettes."

JFZeigler [to cd]: What David said. It will be a "realistic" setting rather than a utopian (or dystopian) one.

Kromm says, "These books will actually take a different approach to running the game, too -- flexible outlook on points, different approach to skills in an expert-system-heavy environment, etc."

Ragnar says, "will points be pointless?"

Kromm says, "So the TH philosophy will be implicit, but visibly so."

cd [to Blacksmith]: the question would probably be reversed: will posthumans view humans as people or property...

Kromm [to Ragnar]: Not pointless, but not balanced via harsh and unforgiving accounting.

dlpulver says, "Characters will be able to oscillate wildly in point total as they alter their bodies -- or are altered. points will still be tracked, but experience won't be held back if you upload your brain into a starship and suddenly gain ST 10,000."

Blacksmith says, "no you can not learn anything ofr a 1000 years"

Kromm says, "Points will exist in the spirit of a running tally, not a conserved quantity."

Dan1 has connected.

dlpulver says, "It should also be mentioned that TS is not a strictly space centred setting. Earth will recieve as much coverage. Currently the division of labor has me doing the outer solar system, and JZ doing Earth, with Kromm actively participating in this."

Kromm says, "And there will a book on the deep ocean as well."

SwiftOne says, "JZ: How SnaowCrashlike will Earth be...e.g will the US be fractured?"

dlpulver says, "Another element is that this is a fundamentally optimistic setting. Bad stuff happens, and can happen, the world is on the edge of an abyss, etc., but life is, in general, better ."

cd says, "some references to Schismatrix, I presume?"

Badman says, "So it's actually a Biotech setting where humans just happen to be colonizing Venus, Mars, etc?"

JamesG says, "Mmm, deep ocean"

Anthony says, "how about character creation being partly money-based? Argument can be made that point cost for various implants should depend on their money cost and required downtime (for surgery, physical therapy, etc) rather than any utility-based system"

Kromm [to cd]: As much as possible, we will avoid blatant references. We do NOT have license rights.

JFZeigler [to SwiftOne]: Probably not as fractured as Snow Crash portrayed. There will still be effective nation-states, and some of those will be quite influential.

JHG says, "Were you inspired by existing novels?"

dlpulver says, "Badman: biotech is fundmentally *driving* colonization -- or rather, colonization is driving biotech. It provides the capability to transform humans to live in space without massive terraforming."

dlpulver says, "I believe JFZ plans on fracturing some areas -- especially "former Indonesia"."

JamesG says, "What about Planetary Protection issues?"

dlpulver says, "I dunno, what about Planetary Protection issues? Explain term?"

Anthony snorts. Not that indonesia needs much help to be fractured.

JFZeigler [to Anthony]: Precisely.

Kromm says, "An underlying assumption is that pressures on Earth and lucrative opportunities in space drive outward expansion, which drives biotech, which drives more expansion, in a feedback loop."

SwiftOne says, "Optimism=Not cyberpunk, but will there be many practical controls on what is and isn't possible? Wihll it be anarchy, controlled anarchy ala Diamond Age (virii can be as muhc fun as nanotech), or large totallitarian structures that smaller units exist within?"

JamesG says, "Sorry, risk of contaminating extraterrestrial biospheres with terrestrial material"

cd [to Kromm]: I was thinking of stuff similar to the clades, that is, groups gathered by interest rather than birth...

SwiftOne is embarassed about all his typos showing up in the logs.

Kromm [to SwiftOne]: Libertarian more so than anarchistic.

JamesG says, "It's kind of my field"

JFZeigler [to SwiftOne]: We're experimenting with a variety of political and social structures. The world in 2100 will have a lot of diversity, just like the world of 2000. Even more diversity, in fact.

Blacksmith says, "I think that would depend on the philosophy of the person introducing it"

Kromm says, "Yes. Interesting government types have been a priority in our discussions :)"

dlpulver says, "To a degree, all of the above. SwiftOne. Anarchy rules the Trojan Points, large toltarian groups are moving in to the Main Belt, many space colonies are tiny microstates, etc."

Anthony ponders the internetocracies ;)

Blacksmith says, "oh has life been found elseware in the solar system in TS"

JamesG has money on Europa...

dlpulver says, "We'll go with minor life forms (bacteria) found in Europa at least."

Kromm says, "One underlying assumption is that democracy is not the ultimate product of political evolution, but just a stop along the way. Transhuman forms of government will develop to replace it."

JamesG says, "...water, energy and organics"

dlpulver says, "In fact, there is a war being fought over environmental issues re. Europa."

Anthony says, "more than bacterial-level life looks unlikely."

JamesG says, "Agreed"

SwiftOne says, "I very much of a libertarian game world. Real-world politics aside, it creates the greatest opportunity for diverse role-playing situations."

john35 has connected.

dlpulver says, "one of the issues is that the biotech pantropists are actively introducing modified earth forms throughout the solar system. The preservationist factions do not like this."

SwiftOne says, "er, "much like the idea of". Sigh."

JFZeigler says, "Just to tease: a couple of the terms we're tossing around are "cyberdemocracy" and "nanosocialism." Neither of which means quite what you'd think :-)."

Anthony says, "one could speculate on weirder things like 'living' hydrocarbon scum on titan."

dlpulver says, "There are strong libertarian elements in the outer solar system in conflict with other elements, from cyberdemocrats to nanosocialists."

JamesG says, "I'm with the preservationists, want to study Europa bugs :)"

dlpulver says, "I may add more elements of this sort, Anthony."

SwiftOne says, "Shouldn't you guys be writing this now rather than talking? I don't want to wait :) "

Anthony says, "tho ruhk's on saturn would be a bit hard to believe in (a la forward)"

JFZeigler chuckles.

JamesG says, "I'd consider Titan as more a prebiotic than biotic environment"

Kromm says, "But we are avoiding aliens such as gasbag critters on Jupiter and weird energy beings in the sun."

SwiftOne [to Kromm]: When is any info on G:TS going to show up on the webpage? The printing schedule is getting pretty vague.

JFZeigler says, "I believe David is working on the first book now. Correct, David?"

Kromm says, "The idea is to focus on where humanity is going."

dlpulver says, "I get useful ideas from chats. Like LIving Hydrocarbon Scum. Which would be a good insult for a bioroid altered to live on Titan, as well."

dlpulver says, "Yes."

JamesG says, "Thank you Kromm..."

Kromm [to SwiftOne]: That will wait until the book is scheduled. Nothing is scheduled this far out . . .

JamesG says, "...I'd find that much life objectionable from a hard science basis"

dlpulver says, "As I worked out the social-political deteails already, I've been focusing lately on the tech stuff."

Kromm . o O ( Boy, has he! )

dlpulver says, "One other thing: this line is designed to stand alone, except for Compendium I."

Anthony ponders superconductive life forms evolved somewhere in the Kuiper Belt. Way implasible, but may not be worse than quantum black holes.

JFZeigler says, "Meanwhile, I just finished Rim of Fire and am working on the proposal for the first Earth book. With luck that will be a couple of months behind DEEP BEYOND."

Ragnar says, "Will this necessitate a sequal to Biotech?"

SwiftOne . o O ( GURPS: Planets, compatible with Vehicles 2nd ed..... )

dlpulver says, "I'd like to have wierd stuff off in the Kuiper Belt."

dlpulver says, "No Ragnar"

Kromm [to Ragnar]: New biotech material needed for TS will appear in the TS books.

dlpulver says, "To some extent, this will also be GURPS Planets, as the focus on biotech alteration of humans, not terraforming, means the planets will be mostly intact ."

Badman says, "But you won't need Biotech to play TS?"

Kromm says, "We plan to avoid cross-pollinating with the rest of GURPS *too* much, since TS will be taking a somewhat radical approach."

Kromm [to Badman]: Bo.

Anthony says, "tho of necessity it sounds like it will retread a lot of Terradyne."

Kromm [to Badman]: Er, 'no.'

dlpulver says, "Biotech will be an excellent source material but you won't need it."

JFZeigler [to Badman]: The idea is to make TS independent of the "tech-books," although I suspect if you want to use the tech-books with it you'll be able to.

Kromm [to Anthony]: TERRADYNE is out of print, and only about 1,500 people have a copy in any case ;-)

dlpulver says, "The terradyne retread will be minimized for a variety of reasons, mostly the spreading out of what was in Terradyne over about three books."

Anthony [to Kromm]: didn't say it was a big deal. I don't have a copy myself.

SwiftOne says, "So which book will focus on how players avoid getting killed when an enemy need only insert a tailored virus into their environment? Or will there be new defensive tricks too?"

dlpulver says, "In other words, you'll see massively more material than in terradyne on the outer system -- especially as we are learning more."

Zen has connected.

Anthony says, "its probably easier to blow up an environment than to add a tailored virus in many cases."

dlpulver says, "Nifty defensive tricks. Panimmunity at a minimum. Microbot defense systems."

Kromm [to SwiftOne]: There will be broadband defenses against such things, too.

dlpulver says, "This solar system is much more evolved than Terradynes, in any case, mostly because this world's earth is richer."

Blacksmith says, "such as if you do it everyone goes after you with realy big guns?"

Ragnar says, "Slugthrowers or lasers?"

dlpulver says, "TS: Deep Beyond will be similar to GURPS Traveller, incorporating its own modular spaceship, robot and equipment lists."

Kromm says, "And it won't all be run by a ST 6, HT 7 weakling, either ;-)"

JamesG says, "Slugthrowers store energy better"

Kromm [to Ragnar]: Very, very few beams

dlpulver says, "The lethality of big guns is slightly reduced as a result of semi-realistic projections for energy storage and so on."

James has disconnected.

dlpulver says, "The average TL of the setting is TL10-11."

Kromm [to Ragnar]: We're leaning heavily toward smart projectiles and/or incredibly hard, fast armor-piercing projectiles. Not to mention goo.

Ragnar says, "Will physical disadvantages become rare?"

Blacksmith says, "yea I have always thought projectile weapons where neeter than energy weapons at least for personal copbat"

Kromm [to Ragnar]: They will be taboo traits for the wealthy.

Ralzakark say, "But a realistic sort of TL-10-11 eh?"

dlpulver says, "While we are at it, we are also regularizing power cells and computers to use smoother weight/cost curves."

Kromm says, "Actually, that is a major shift since the last chat, isn't it?"

Sauronth says, ""goo??""

Ragnar says, "goo?"

Blacksmith says, "or part mental"

Kromm says, "We formerly said 'TL9, with some TL10-12 stuff.' Now we're saying 'TL10-11 hard-science path.'"

dlpulver says, "You know: fire a splot of microgoo on someone and watch it eat them, render them down, and turn them into a combat robot. Well, not so drastic, but..."

Blacksmith says, "even if you could offored to have them fixed you to some it would be a fasion statement"

JamesG says, "Hmm..."

Anthony says, "actually, the best plausible 'beam' weapon is unfortunately a gamma ray shotgun"

Anthony says, "takes about the same amount of energy to kill people as a rifle does."

cd [to dlpulver]: have you read Nanomedicine?

Anthony says, "long as you don't mind them dying a few days after you fire ;)"

dlpulver says, "Nope"

dlpulver says, "I'm roughly familiar with it"

Ralzakark [to Anthony]: Heh.

cd [to dlpulver]: very handy book.

Anthony [to Ralzakark]: tho I think something like 100 grays will disable people fairly immediately.

Ralzakark [to cd]: It's a collection of essays by various people right?

cd [to dlpulver]: and the publishers have put it online, so you don't *have* to shell out $100...

dlpulver says, "I'll look for it. "

cd [to Ralzakark]: nope, a book on the utilization of nanotech in medicine.

Kromm says, "But we do NOT plan to go mad with molecular nanotech. We are leaning that way for lots of reasons. My own personal reason is that my friend in the IBM Zurich nanotech group claims that MNT might be more of a Holy Grail than we thought it was when it was initially proposed. MNT devices have temperature, radiation sensitivity problems, control problems, etc."

cd says, " , surprisingly enough..."

JHG blinks

dlpulver says, "thanks"

Badman says, "So no Diamond Age."

Ralzakark [to Kromm]: Sort of like regular old biologicals eh?

Kromm [to Badman]: Nothing that extreme, no.

Anthony says, "speaking of which, saw some interesting stuff about '3d Xerox' type fabrication."

dlpulver says, "Nope. Use a lot of ultra-pure iron, though."

Anthony says, "which is modern day"

dlpulver says, "Is that the `smart ink' Anthony?"

Anthony says, "no"

Kromm [to dlpulver]: 3D lithography, more or less.

Anthony says, "it involves a chamber which assembles objects inside"

Ralzakark say, "Is that that wax protoyping thing?"

Anthony says, "its basically just an argument for permitting robofacs, tho"

pleissez has connected.

Ragnar says, "Would anti-agathics become relatively commonplace, at least for wealthy people?"

Kromm [to Anthony]: Agreed. Probably at the MEM level.

dlpulver says, "Sort of, Ragnar. We postulate some telemere hacks of various sorts, and a general assumption that medicine has roughly reached 1:1 lifespan parity, i.e., each year you age, the average human lifespan goes up by abourt a year, if you can afford at the latest options and operations."

Kromm [to Ragnar]: I think we are leaning toward a variety of immortality solutions: brain transplants/brain tapes and clones, cellular rejuvenation, etc.

JFZeigler [to Ragnar]: I've been working on demographics for the Earth book. I suspect that some people born about *now* will still be alive in 2100. If they have the money.

Ragnar says, "Think there might be a cult of assassins that thinks people shouldn't live longer than 100 or so?"

Anthony tries to remember the author with books that are talking about emortality rather than immortality

Ragnar says, "Like, the Society of Thanatos or something?"

dlpulver says, "This gives us some possibility for interesting viewpoint characters, hey JFZ?"

Kromm [to Ragnar]: There will be all kinds of terrorist nuts, sure.

JFZeigler [to Anthony]: Brian Stableford. I've been reading them.

JFZeigler chuckles. "None of us are going to be wealthy enough."

Ragnar says, "I'm thinking of a crossover with Kung Fu 2100 -- the worlds sound very similar in some respects."

Kromm [to Ragnar]: One of the setting's 'hooks' is lots of splinter factions, interest groups, etc., mucking around.

Zen has disconnected.

cd says, "and some amortalists, I presume?"

Dan1 has disconnected.

SwiftOne says, "You guys could write yourselves in as alive, then demand that Evil Stevie give you raises or risk making the book inaccurate :)"

Badman says, "That would be...some raise."

The lion snickers

Ralzakark [to SwiftOne]: He'd just send them over to Alcor.

Kromm [to SwiftOne]: Evil Stevie couldn't afford to give us a few million apiece . . .

JamesG says, "I see that plan resulting in a swift Erratta"

JHG shudders at the thought of an immortal Bill Gates :|

dlpulver says, "What about an immortal pope or supreme court justice?"

SwiftOne [to JHG]: They cloned Palpatine, so.....

Kromm [to JHG]: He might go the cyber-immortality route, uploading copies of himself as part of his final operating system . . . ;-)

Ralzakark [to SwiftOne]: But at least Palpatine was likable to some extent. ;)

JFZeigler shudders.

The lion snickers

dlpulver says, "Gates in *every* OS. Literally."

Dan1 has connected.

Ragnar says, "Except Linux"

Ralzakark say, "Microsoft Bill."

Kromm says, "Windows 2050BG."

SwiftOne says, "Great, the ultimate Microsoft Bob....Microsoft Bill."

john35 has disconnected.

Blacksmith says, "great every AI is bill gates"

dlpulver says, "Aka the paperclip"

Ragnar says, "I use STAPLES!"

JFZeigler [to SwiftOne]: Besides, SJ couldn't give me a raise. I freelance.

Kromm says, "But just think -- you could chew him out personally when his OS screwed up, and delete him if he really bothers you."

Ralzakark . o O ( Bill Anubis Gates. )

dlpulver says, "To some extent, we're going more for intelligence amplification than AI."

Kromm says, "Yes."

SwiftOne says, "'Yeah, so I got tired of Bill crashing, so I wiped him out and put in Linus'""

JamesG grins

dlpulver says, "Security blanket firewall?"

Kromm says, "For instance, tiny expert systems everywhere, simultaneously helping people perform and educating them."

JFZeigler says, "Sure. You don't have to be a genius with you r naked brain if your equipment can tell you how to use it properly."

cd says, "ubiquitous computing, eh?"

SwiftOne [to JFZeigler]: I know, but raise is easier to say than "pay a higher word rate with more swag"

Kromm [to cd]: Pretty much.

Badman says, "I like the way AI was handled in Red Mars. Computers had AI but weren't sentient. Basically they were just on steroids."

JFZeigler says, "The challenge is when a situation comes up that the expert system can't handle..."

cd [to Kromm]: you are familiar with , I presume?

JamesG says, "That's what PCs are for "

Kromm says, "Which describes the average RPG adventure :)"

Blacksmith says, "oh what types of computers will there be?"

Ragnar says, "Will people still use keyboards?"

SwiftOne says, "Personally I'd love at least a sidebar with suggestions on how to deal with players trying to milk the expert system for info. I have trouble making non-AI's sound non-AI enough."

Kromm [to cd]: Maybe. The URL means nothing to me. And sorry to say, but web pages are too fleeting for me to put much stock in them.

Kromm [to SwiftOne]: There will be plenty of 'So what will the PCs do, then?' sidebars. Have no fear.

JFZeigler [to Blacksmith]: I was kicking around a "kindercomp." Child's computer with a simple personality sim in it and some teaching software. Companion, nanny and teacher all in one.

cd [to Kromm]: Anders' Transhuman Pages, a *large* collection of transhumanist/extropian documents.

pleissez says, "'Will there be neural interface?"

Kromm [to cd]: OK, yes, I have seen those.

dlpulver says, "Keyboards? Sure, a few situations you might want them. There are other interface methods, though. Talking, visual mice, variousinterfaces, etc."

Kromm [to pleissez]: Not as it currently exists in GURPS.

SwiftOne rests easy, secure in the knowledge that Pulver, Kromm, and JFZ will protect

pleissez says, ""Works for me"

dlpulver says, "I like kindercomp"

JFZeigler [to cd]: I think we're all familiar with Anders' site.

copeab has connected.

Blacksmith says, "well I was wondering more like Galium arsenide chips, quantum computers, biocomputers ect."

Kromm [to pleissez]: There will be ways of plugging machines into nerves, though. Just not for +4 skill :)

dlpulver says, "Yeah, we've read Anders."

JamesG says, "Keyboards are handy in noisy environments"

dlpulver says, "Quantum and biocomputers, certainly."

Kromm says, "Well, face-readers and pupil-scanning menu-driven computers will be useful."

JFZeigler . o O ( Keyboard. . .How quaint. )

pleissez says, ""Good! Most fun I ever had with NI was with downgraded interfaces. You don't need the bonus."

cd [to dlpulver]: the kindercomp sounds a little like the 'datasets from A Fire Upon The Deep.

Kromm says, "People can choose options from menus with pupil scanning *faster* than they can type :)"

SwiftOne . o O ( "Scotty: Mouse, tell me..." )

Carter peers gingerly through the looking glass

dlpulver says, "Haven't read it yet, cd... ask JFZ."

pleissez says, ""HUD style interfaces?"

dlpulver says, "Pupil scanning is the standard in Phoenix Nest, which is being tied into it."

Anthony says, "any interface can be really fast as long as you're practiced with it."

Badman says, "Work intrudes. I'll check the log. See ya'll.""

JFZeigler [to cd]: A little like that, yes. Or like the Primer in Diamond Age.

Badman has disconnected.

Kromm [to pleissez]: Like Hawking's latest speech-aid computer, really.

dlpulver says, "Monoculars, stuff like that. See UT2 for pupilscan rules."

Anthony says, "just needs to be some part of the body which has lots of processing associated with it"

Anthony says, "like the eyes, the face, the hands"

copeab has disconnected.

pleissez says, ""I've gotta look into this more. Intriguing."

Anthony ponders a computer controlled by facial expressions.

cd says, "chording keyboards (twiddler?), stuff like that?"

SwiftOne says, "Must go, thanks for the chat, write fast (the well is a given). :)"

JFZeigler [to Anthony]: Wonder what the "stick tongue out" shortcut would do?

Blacksmith says, "great i skowel and the coputer turns off"

pleissez says, ""Anthony - sort of like Snow Crash?"

Ralzakark [to Anthony]: Just don't try to use it on a bad day.

Kromm says, "Also keep in mind that a unidirectional mic gummed to your throat will work just fine in noisy environments. "

pleissez says, ""Imagine what a raised eyebrow could do."

dlpulver says, "Bye SwiftOne!"

Kromm waves to those departing.

JFZeigler waves.

JHG says, "What would happen when your face is hurt?"

SwiftOne explodes into millions of angry particles, which scatter about the room in disgust with one another.

dlpulver says, "Same as when you strain wrist, switch to another interface or rest"

Ragnar says, "What are the most popular choices of recreation for the average person?"

Kromm says, "We are also discussing tiny machines worn all over the body that talk to one another via encoded RF or IR. The math on that shows that they would be *very* hard to jam."

pleissez says, ""Tech that literally sticks to the skin, eh?"

cd says, "presumably also fairly "smart" interfaces, so they can still "read" you, even with impediments..."

Anthony says, "how about wires?"

dlpulver says, "Microcommunicators are kind of standard options for most devices."

Anthony says, "that would be pretty hard to jam too"

Kromm [to Ragnar]: Probably extreme forms of VR games, not the mention things which have been popular for thousands of years: swimming, listening to music, etc.

dlpulver says, "Sex"

Kromm [to Anthony]: Wires are OK.

Anthony says, "smart cloth."

Kromm [to Anthony]: But wire-tech is hitting bandwidth limits *today.*

cd [to Kromm]: optofiber?

Kromm [to cd]: Much better, yes.

JHG says, "Will there be something like Dreampark for recreation?"

Dan1 has disconnected.

Kromm says, "Actually, May's Scientific American has some nice articles on asteroids, microchips, storage, metallic hydrogen, and other goodies that we might be getting into."

cd will look for it...

JFZeigler [to JHG]: Probably. Actually I'm planning on a "popular life and culture" chapter for the Earth book, kind of like the one in Cyberworld.

dlpulver says, "JFZ mentioned that with more intelligent agents going around, people will anthropomorphisze things a lot more. Most of your dolls, action figures, etc. can be personlized, if only by linking a program to a smarter comp. This will doubtless affect socialization. You can probably have sex with your spacesuit, giving sufficient cash."

Maya has connected.

JFZeigler . o O ( Digital animism. )

pleissez says, ""I remember something about the Oxygen project - software that acts as hardware. Anything on that in TS?"

Anthony [to dlpulver]: actually, it would probably be relatively inexpensive, if you only do it from inside.

Maya checks the chat schedule, waves to people, drops off again.

Maya has disconnected.

pleissez says, ""Pulver - if people can do it they will. "

cd [to pleissez]: emulation?

dlpulver says, "Pretty much. $1-3,000 option, with average starting wealth at about $75-150,000."

JFZeigler [to pleissez]: I didn't think that was what Oxygen was about, actually.

cd [to pleissez]: "all Hardware sucks, emulate in Lisp instead"...

Ralzakark say, "Sex with a spacesuit? Brings new meaning to the idea of 'wetware'."

pleissez says, ""to cd - I think so. To Zeigler - I can be wrong. Anyone else have any insight?"

Anthony ponders software that acts as hardware.

Anthony says, "somewhat nonsensical idea, unless you mean emulators."

dlpulver says, "JFZ will do a lot of the pop culture stuff, as DB covers more of the space tech. The societies off in deep space are a little warped..."

Kromm says, "Just a littke."

dlpulver says, "There's MEMSwear clothing..."

cd [to Ralzakark]: bioplastic (or whatever it was called)...

pleissez says, ""A little? From the last chat they sounded bizarre. Planarian cannibal clique anyone?"

Kromm says, "And of course some transhumans won't really need clothes . . ."

JHG says, "Will there be chameleon suits?"

Anthony says, "hm...will you avoid intruder chameleon and holosuits? ;)"

JFZeigler [to pleissez]: ISTR that Oxygen is about a network of personal assistants that work together seamlessly. Making information as ubiquitous and easy to use as the air. Certainly we're going to talk about systems like that.

dlpulver says, "Yes, chameleon suits."

dlpulver says, "No, chameleon suits"

Kromm [to JHG]: Given that the U.S. Army wants them for 2005 . . .

Anthony says, "chameleon being equivalent to the TL 9 stuff I guess"

dlpulver says, "Not really as seperate systems -- more like pretty standard options."

pleissez says, ""[to JFZeigler] I think you might be right. My mistake."

JHG says, "Will there be space elevators in use?"

Sauronth says, ""Fascinating stuff! Unfortunately work is stubornly refusing to go away so will have to disconnect :-(""

JFZeigler thinks he has a Scientific American article about it around here somewhere...

dlpulver says, "Basically, if you're in high end 5th wave set up, most of the biosuit/cybersuit gear is `programmable' with a wide range of features that can be added."

Kromm says, "And machines which act as a collective, sharing experiences are another U.S. Army-inspired idea we will be getting into."

Dolarre has connected.

dlpulver says, "Bye Sauronth!"

Kromm waves at Sauronth! Sauronth is waved at!

Sauronth has disconnected.

pleissez says, ""Sort of like the Fuchikomas from Ghost in the Shell?"

JFZeigler [to JHG]: I think we're planning on some equatorial space facilities -- Quito and Nairobi, most likely. Beanstalks I don't know about.

Kromm [to JHG]: The outlines we have mention fountains and skyhooks, yes.

dlpulver says, "Gestalt programs... one of the reasons for regularizing computer weight/cost is to make this easier. Actually, game mechanics for the program are pretty easy: mostly a amtter of adapting the existing hive mind rules fro CI."

JHG says, "Skyhooks are fun :)"

Carter says, "What about netrunning? Will that exist or be reworked from Cyberpunk?"

Anthony says, "but technically rather difficult."

Kromm [to dlpulver]: And lest we forget, the parallel computing rules from UT2, which let lots of little computers talk to become very smart.

dlpulver says, "I'd like to consider fountains just to be odd. Though they have strategic weapons implications. HV long range railguns might be very nasty as inter-country weaponry."

pleissez says, "[to JHG]: Especially if you drop them on folks! (Sorry my terrorist streak is showing!)"

JamesG says, "A little hard to aim though"

Anthony likes a suggestion MA Lloyd came up with of boosting the earth's magnetic field and then using magnetic systems to fly.

dlpulver says, "JFZ has some thoughts on netrunning... "

cd [to JamesG]: with the advanced computing availiable, not too hard, I'd think...

Kromm [to Carter]: IMV, netrunning is a nonstarter. Nothing that matters will be online. Stealing data will mean breaking in or convincing someone inside to hook you up.

dlpulver says, "Yep: parallelism."

JamesG says, "DL my brain to a computer, do all I want online, upload to the wetware again"

JFZeigler [to Carter]: There will be rules for data piracy, although the Gibson-like "cybersphere" won't exist. Much more emphasis on getting a tap or a bug (maybe even a live insect!) into the facility you want to steal data from.

dlpulver says, "How the microbots work, mostly."

Kromm [to JFZeigler]: Yes!

Anthony says, "for an even nastier 'special purpose system which doubles as a weapon of mass destruction', consider laser-propelled interstellar probes."

Kromm says, "Yeah, super-advanced spy tech with really cool bugs will characterize data pentration."

pleissez says, "Phew! No CP2020 style hacking."

dlpulver says, "I don't think anyone is seriously building 1000 km lenses."

Anthony says, "probably be a maser instead"

cd [to dlpulver]: too vulnerable...

Anthony says, "1000km dishes aren't unreasonable."

pleissez says, "Say what about solar power sats?"

JamesG isn't so sure

dlpulver says, "To a large extent, bigger telescopes..."

Kromm [to pleissez]: Sure. Lots of them. Mostly around Mercury, making antimatter . . .

dlpulver says, "Solar power sats co-exist with fusion. "

JHG says, "You don't need 1000km dishes or lenses. You can use a number of smaller ones to emulte a bigger one (according to NASA)"

cd says, "will there be *any* large-scale nets at all?"

pleissez says, "Heh. Microwave weapons pale in the face of antimatter weapons."

Anthony says, "for a long-range collector, yes"

JamesG says, "Simpler and a lot cheeper JHG"

dlpulver says, "A few powers got a rude shock when their solar sats were blown out of orbit during the Pacific War. Ground based fusion reactors have certain advantages, chiefly political."

cd says, "computer nets that is.""

Kromm [to cd]: Lots and lots. But no one with secret data will be dumb enough to leave it sitting on a connected node.

Anthony says, "how about observatories at 1000 AU to use gravitational lensing from the sun?"

dlpulver says, "of course there are large scale internet nets."

JFZeigler [to cd]: Oh, yes. Earth in particular will be heavily wired. It's just that any data worth stealing will be either heavily encrypted or not stored on the main net for any lowlife to get to.

Anthony [to JFZeigler]: though never underestimate human stupidity.

dlpulver says, "That sort of high-baseline stuff at 1000AU, yes. Good for scanning andromeda for habitable planets, etc."

cd [to dlpulver]: what bandwidths? kilobit/second, bit/second, megabit/second?

Kromm says, "Look at the current movements in data security: Things are being moved to isolated RAIDs accessible only by physically jacking in at the site where they are kept."

Anthony [to JFZeigler]: that's how real-world hacking works ;)

dlpulver says, "Direct bandwidth issues to Kromm..."

JFZeigler chuckles. He works in data security. He knows how stupid people can be.

cd says, "i.e. text-only or more "advanced" media too?"

Anthony [to Kromm]: and then some yahoo decides that's too inconvenient and downloads a personal copy

dlpulver says, "I'm sure that their are VR webpages. You can probably get a nice cyberpunk experience while web surfing if you have your browser enable the right settings."

Kromm says, "I think we're assuming terabits/second for the most part. That's well within reach of projected optical tech, and reasonable for routine use."

Kromm [to Anthony]: As I said, you get inside help to penetrate security. Such help need not be willing ;-)

dlpulver says, "The net is a lot more primitive in space largely due to timelag issues. "

cd [to Kromm]: I was thinking on interplanetary nets.

cd says, "aha."

pleissez says, "Terrorism via media - is this possible? Ie look at a document that's been prepped and have a pokemon style siezure?"

dlpulver says, "We're probably assuming holographic data storage for instant access of information."

dlpulver says, "If you're that tiny percetnage succesptible"

Anthony [to pleissez]: probably about as reliable as the studies on subliminals, which suggested they generally don't work very well. Plus people can have data filters.

Kromm [to cd]: Probably not that high between planets. But tight-beam asynchronous transmission at gigabits per second is still quite reasonable in space.

Kromm says, "And see May's SciAm for the latest on holographic storage. Nice little article there."

pleissez says, "Ah well. Yet another idea shot down. The XYZ liberation front will triumph! One day real soon now..."

cd [to Kromm]: but this will *not* be realtime, I know...

A great number of mechanical arms and waldoes extend from the walls and ceiling, making a flurry of motion as they assemble a great many parts near the center of the room. They finish and retract, leaving CraigR standing there.

cd is in comp.sci

Kromm [to cd]: Which is why I said 'asynchronous.'

CraigR says, "Did I miss it?"

CraigR . o O ( Guess not... )

dlpulver says, "Speaking of mechanical arms, I'm including a modular robot system."

CraigR bows

Kromm cheers. A simple robot-building system with flying rats!

pleissez has disconnected.

Anthony says, "will there be magnetic sails?"

Anthony says, "and magnetic-sail racing? ;)"

Ragnar [to Kromm]: They're called bats . . .

dlpulver says, "Not unless I can figure out how to write rules for them that don't require complex math."

Anthony notes that the solar wind is way more unpredictable than sunlight, which is good for racing.

JFZeigler says, "Pleissez may like our idea for the current Doomsday Weapon. Plague nanoviruses that rewrite the victims' personalities. Nobody will know if it's possible but everyone will be afraid of it. . ."

Anthony says, "weight = thrust * X. ;)"

JamesG says, "Nasty JFZ"

dlpulver says, "The ones in Roleplayer were a lot more complex."

mib5150 has connected.

Anthony suspects that that one will be proably impossible.

Ragnar says, "Niceness nanoviruses?"

Anthony [to dlpulver]: yes, but they really don't need to be.

JHG [to JFZeigler]: That thought will probably span some active protestgroups

Kromm says, "And of course we are assuming that propaganda will benefit from memetic engineering, although I think we have decided to treat memes as Lamarkian and not Darwinian in nature, to address with Gould's complaints."

JFZeigler [to JamesG]: Very nasty. Especially since there are some pretty ruthless ideological blocs on Earth in 2100.

dlpulver says, "Well, if i can figure out how to simplify."

Kromm says, "Try again: 'And of course we are assuming that propaganda will benefit from memetic engineering, although I think we have decided to treat memes as Lamarckian and not Darwinian in nature, to address Gould's complaints.'"

mib5150 has disconnected.

thomasm says, "Lamarckian?"

dlpulver says, "aquired traits?"

JFZeigler [to JamesG]: The thought that the nanosocialist alliance might release a bug that could turn everyone on Earth into good nanosocialists. . .

cd [to thomasm]: aquired traits are inherited as well, IIRC

Ragnar says, "Religious groups would love that!"

JamesG says, "That's a pleasant thought"

Anthony says, "memes are pretty obviously lamarckian"

Ragnar says, "Nanotech Missionaries: Convert the heathen from the ground up!"

Kromm [to Anthony]: I agree, but remember that Dawkins didn't.

JHG says, "Will there be extensive genetic treatments to wipe out anything unwanted?"

Ragnar says, "Parents would love it too. "Can I get a niceness nanovirus for my terrible kid?""

Anthony [to JFZeigler]: best you could probably do would involve a bug which would make people receptive. Too much data required to fit in a nanobug

dlpulver says, "do you mean like human races, or genetic diseases?"

JamesG says, "Doc, restore me to my saved backup!"

JFZeigler [to JHG]: Probably. And, of course, there will be social blocs who refuse to engineer themselves too extensively.

Kromm [to JamesG]: Brain tapes will certainly present that opportunity to the very rich . . .

JFZeigler [to Anthony]: Probably true. Of course, the scare stories would be much more lurid than that.

Anthony [to JFZeigler]: how common are tin-foil hats? ;)

JamesG says, "Brain tape and gene stores... someone may have tampered"

Anthony says, "or what't the 2100 equivalent of them?"

dlpulver says, "though true braintaping is rare and difficult at the moment."

Kromm says, "And of course, these things can be binary, trinary, or even more complex."

Carter says, "What about cyrogenics. Will they be able to thaw out Disney in TS?"

The lion snickers

dlpulver says, "As a lowres braintape."

Anthony doubts it. Cryonics does way too much damage ;)

JFZeigler [to Anthony]: There will certainly be a lot to be paranoid about. Of course, there will also be effective therapies for paranoia.

dlpulver says, "Getting some signal..."

Anthony snickers.

Kromm says, "Yes. Attitude adjustment will be freely available."

Kromm says, "Without the baseball bat."

dlpulver says, "Are we going to have gestalt computing? Forgot to ask."

JamesG says, "They said they could 'cure' me... I knew what they really wanted though..."

dlpulver says, "We have a fairly simple drug-building system included. "

Kromm [to dlpulver]: I believe we planned on it after reading that DARPA material on collectives.

Anthony [to JamesG]: they wanted to cure you.

Anthony [to JamesG]: just their definition of 'sick' is different from yours.

JFZeigler [to dlpulver]: Linking human brains up to serve as a parallel computer?

dlpulver says, "No, I mean the UT2 definition of it: plugging in humans via neural interface to use them as dreaming parallel processor components."

Anthony says, "ugh"

dlpulver says, "Think of it as workfare."

Anthony says, "why would you want to do that?"

Kromm [to dlpulver]: Oooh, that would be good borderline-TL12 black technology for evil secret agencies.

Anthony says, "brains would make crappy computers."

JFZeigler [to Anthony]: There are some vignettes in BioTech already that hint at that kind of "political therapy." It'll certainly be a possibility.

cd [to dlpulver]: like the Core from Hyperion (the Fall of)?

JamesG says, "And if the dreamer remembers secret data..."

JamesG says, "...enter the PCs"

Kromm [to Anthony]: Not when it comes to thinking up evil schemes that depend on human nonlinearity and understanding of emotional response . . .

dlpulver says, "It's in UT2, but it may be a lot too far out. Though I've heard a few sensible discussions, but it may be too Matrix like these days."

JFZeigler [to dlpulver]: I have a hard time believing in that notion myself. But we can talk about that offline.

JHG says, "Will replacement body parts be grown in tanks, or are criminals used for spare parts?"

dlpulver says, "Criminals for parts is mostly obsolete. I think you grow them on frames."

Kromm [to dlpulver]: Like I said, it would be best to put that out at 'rumored experimental TL12' and let GMs decide.

A man enters the room. There's nothing strange about him other than a slight pallor to his face, the Raven sitting on his shoulder, and the fact that he has MikeLee tattooed on the inside of his eyelids. He makes his way to the table, sets his Dew next to him, and waves to the room.

JFZeigler [to JHG]: Almost certainly you can use cloned parts or prosthetics for everything.

dlpulver says, "Basically: prothestics if you can't wait, cloning if you can."

Kromm [to JHG]: We've discussed cellular contruction from stem cells, at everything from the organ level to the whole-body level.

dlpulver says, "There is no force-growth cloning per se, though."

Kromm says, "After all, moving around 15 trillion cells is nothing once you have MEMs and working AI . . ."

JHG says, "Whole body? Download brain to disk and upload it in a new body?"

Dolarre has disconnected.

dlpulver says, "Currently there are two degress of braintape: low res that is not fully safe but is duplicable, and high res that destroys the brain while copying."

Kromm [to JHG]: Construct bodies from living cells, specialized to organ functions, using a synthetic skeleton as a frame and AI-directed MEMs to put the 15 trillion jigsaw pieces together.

JHG says, "Would you need brainpattern - brain compatibility?"

dlpulver says, "not fully safe = copy might have errors"

Kromm says, "Errors are fun ;-)"

JFZeigler [to JHG]: If you can "program" a new body with a personality, you can "program" an existing person with personality traits. That might be a bit beyond realistic.

CraigR says, "How about operatives who have there brains loaded into simpler bioroid bodies. Disposable spies..."

Kromm says, "And a little disincentive to keep players from totally pooh-poohing mortal danger."

dlpulver says, "One thing you can do is have a "rider" of some sort. Instead of downloading as such, there's a computer implant in your body that houses the intelligence. You might plant that into a clone ."

JFZeigler says, "You could load an uploaded personality into a programmable computer though, and run a robot body with it. Even a bioroid, perhaps."

Kromm [to CraigR]: Well, uploading will be part of the military tech in the setting, for sure.

CraigR thinks of the original vignettes of Aeon Flux...

JFZeigler says, "What David said, actually."

dlpulver says, "Cloned body, robot brain"

JFZeigler [to dlpulver]: Reminds me of a few Greg Egan stories. . .

dlpulver says, "robot brain running personality sim software"

CraigR says, "That, too."

dlpulver says, "personality sim software representing attempt to sort out and analyze and paper over errors in initial brain scan."

cd [to dlpulver]: like the braintap from UT ?

dlpulver says, "Sort of, but more so: the computer is there, and it's too way."

dlpulver says, "more like the high end personality implant. Essentially you run into issues of `is that a close simulation based on a scan of a brain, or is it a true person despite some gaps in memory and personality?"

JHG says, "How would you get a "Cloned body, robot brain" thru a metal detector at airports?"

JFZeigler . o O ( I have a plate in my skull. . . )

pleissez has connected.

dlpulver says, "Biocomputer?"

Kromm [to JHG]: Why would the robot brain me metal? And why would an airport use anything as primitive as a metal detector? ;-)

CraigR says, "non-metalic processors?"

Kromm says, "'be metal' -- sorry."

dlpulver says, "That's a neural interface. Or implant communicator. Lots of people have them."

cd [to JHG]: there're probably more advanced security measures...

Kromm says, "The robot brain is liable to be biological or at least completely semiconductor with no metal bits."

JHG says, "So the problem stays: how would such a being get thru security?"

dlpulver says, "It would go through security the same way that you can carry a wrist-watch through security. A brain implant is not especially unusual."

Kromm says, "And security will involve passive millimetre-wave sensors and transient EMP sensors ('t-rays') with vast signal-processing resources."

cd [to JHG]: plausible explanations. or diplomatic passports,

JFZeigler [to JHG]: There might be a lot of "ordinary citizens" in that status, of course.

JHG says, "Also: Would you allow someone *wearing* nanites on a plane?"

dlpulver says, "Yes."

dlpulver says, "Or at least, MEMS. Basically, they're in everyone's deoderant sticks, for goo's sake."

Kromm says, "Not much choice. After a few generations of using MEMs, everyone will have a few -- just like bacteria, viruses, prions, etc."

JHG says, "Must be hell for security!"

cd [to JHG]: some of them might not *need* planes...

dlpulver says, "Theplane sh ould have its own MEMS."

JHG says, "Not limited to planes. How about corporate security."

Ragnar has disconnected.

Kromm [to JHG]: Well, keep in mind that we are not going with optimistic von Neumann MNT.

dlpulver says, "Many people have tiny little microbot swarms that hunt down insects"

Carter says, "Or even prisons...""

JamesG says, "Security nanos"

pleissez says, "What is the state of the art in correctional facilities in G:TS?"

Kromm says, "Prisons? People will simply be 'adjusted.' Quicker, easier, and no need to feed and cloth them for decades . . ."

dlpulver says, "Please take off your clothes. Step into the scanning pool. OUr diagnostic microbots are scanning and will enter the body."

Anthony says, "how vulnerable to radiation do you assume MEMS are?"

pleissez says, "Creepy. But effective."

dlpulver says, "Various options. 1) Adjust. 2) Place in biostasis. 3) Kill but retain backup. 4) Ship off world to colony."

JFZeigler says, "Kind of like the "therapeutic society" in Bear's QUEEN OF ANGELS. Some nations might well go for that."

Kromm [to Anthony]: My sources at IBM suggest that radiation is a problem for micromachines and a *big* problem for nanomachines.

pleissez says, "Now someone mentioned a Draka-esque group in the Andes. Any details on these bad boys and girls?"

dlpulver says, "EMP should take out a cluster of MEMS nicely, but it isn't something you use every day."

JamesG says, "Not like you can put shielding on them"

Anthony [to Kromm]: yes, but do you assume superior or inferior error-correcting to, say, cellular life.

cd [to Kromm]: so probably a sealed, highly controlled environment almost exclusively?

Kromm [to Anthony]: That implies self-repair, which amounts to assuming reproduction on some level. As I've said, we are *not* going with self-replicating MNT.

dlpulver says, "Probably nanosocialist precursors. The most draka like of the nanosocs kind of got kicked off earth after China and Australia dealt with them, but many more are left."

cd says, "the respirocyte idea is cool."

RichardG has connected.

pleissez says, "For the microbots and radiation: Seems like the only real defense is a shielded manufactory of these things. Once the originals go down, it maked more."

pleissez says, "Arg. Makes. Sorry."

cd says, " "

dlpulver says, "basically, they're pretty cheap. They aren't the ultimate weapon, but they're useful for many things."

pleissez says, "So the Andean conflict is a no go?"

Anthony [to Kromm]: well, error-correcting just requires redundancy

dlpulver says, "Oh, it went, it happened, it occured. It was about 30 years ago."

dlpulver says, "Probably still some guerilla activity."

Kromm [to pleissez]: Sure. They will have a half-life, just like chemical particles, radioactive nuclei, etc. Think of MEMs in similar terms to persistent chemicals or radiation.

JHG says, "How about global warming?"

JFZeigler [to pleissez]: I'm developing the Andes conflict as a pivotal event: the first time a lot of the new biotechnologies were used in warfare. Bioroid warriors, uplifted animals, and so on.

pleissez says, "Oh. "

dlpulver says, "It was a good time to be a US Marine (:"

pleissez says, "Semper Fi."

JHG [to dlpulver]: The dolphine type?

Kromm [to JHG]: We have been talking that over. I am not sure that we have completely resolved which way we plan to go with global warming, the ozone hole, etc. But we have plans to discuss and address these issues.

dlpulver says, "What about dolphins?"

JHG [to dlpulver]: US marine!

Ralzakark say, "In the tuna?"

pleissez says, "And they'd finally get their powered armor and drones to play with!"

JFZeigler [to pleissez]: Basically the US gets involved because the enemy threatened the American-Ecuadorian space launch facilities near Quito. . .

dlpulver says, "SEAL?"

JHG says, ":)"

cd says, "so how about the non-american world? Europe, f'rex?"

pleissez says, "About the state of the environment - has the coastline changed dramatically?"

cd says, "a topic dear to my heart, for some reason... ;)"

dlpulver says, "Not too drastically."

JHG holds up a sign: "Don't let Holland drown, again!"

JFZeigler says, "I'm using a lot of UN projections for things like world population, global warming, and so on. The ocean level will probably be higher but not disastrously so in most areas. The Dutch and Bangladeshi may have to worry. . ."

RichardG says, "not even in Bangladesh?"

Kromm [to cd]: We have plans for the whole world. Jon has huge piles of thoughts on this . . .

JHG [to JFZeigler]: Don't you dare drown us!!

cd says, "I'm looking forward to reading it..."

JFZeigler [to cd]: I've been developing projections for every part of the world. I want the setting to be *extremely* globalist in flavor.

Ralzakark [to JHG]: Just think of it as an opportunity to practice aquaculture.

JamesG says, "That's good. But hard work"

pleissez says, "And New Orleans. Don't forget about Louisiana and its vanishing coastline, etc."

Kromm [to cd]: Well, 'them' more so than 'it' -- there will be multiple TS books, as this will be a product line.

JFZeigler [to JHG]: Don't worry. I have a lot of respect for Dutch ingenuity :-).

JHG [to Ralzakark]: We will raise our dikes to the height of the Dutch mountains ;)

Kromm says, "So don't expect all this in one book. More likely in 5-7 books, initially."

cd [to JFZeigler]: oh goodie! so what weirdoes are there in Scandahoovia?

JFZeigler [to JHG]: Besides, one of the cities I'm considering devoting several pages to is Rotterdam-Europoort.

pleissez says, "Suddnly struck by image of large number of Dutch descended orbital and deep sapce colonies."

dlpulver says, "In space, the "deep beyond" is mainly US+China+South Africa+UK; Luna is dominated by EUrope and Japan, Mercury is mostly western europe, Mars is heavily China and some other powers (maybe Brazil, etc.)."

Kromm says, "And us Canadians are stuck at home ;-)"

CraigR grins

dlpulver says, "Are we going with the Rocky Mountains Republic still?"

Kromm [to dlpulver]: Sounds cool.

cd [to dlpulver]: neat-o!

RichardG says, "Which current major powers aren't?"

pleissez says, "I like the idea of a second war of succession."

Ralzakark say, "Please say the France got the axe. ;)"

dlpulver says, "Russia seems to be still down in the dumps"

JHG says, "How about India?"

Carter wandered into some black ICE *zap*

RichardG says, "And the reverse side of the question - what are the new major powers?"

Carter peers gingerly through the looking glass

JFZeigler [to RichardG]: The United States. No, not really. But the US is no longer the largest economy in the world *or* the technical leader in all areas. Now it's one Great Power among several.

JHG says, "Corporations?"

Ralzakark say, "Have McDonalds or Disney becom superpowers yet?"

cd says, "well, time for me to catch the last bus, or wait for another 6.5 hours..."

CraigR came in late and can't remember from the original chat. "Was TS supposed to be around 2100 or 2200?"

Kromm [to JHG]: There will be corporate powers. Especially in Africa.

pleissez says, "What about new forms of government? Has this been covered earlier?"

cd says, "and while this is interesting, it's not *that* interesting..."

dlpulver says, "New major powers *in space* include South Africa, the Duncanites, the growing influence of New Covenant, etc."

JamesG says, "War against Disney... my players would love that campaign"

Kromm waves at cd! cd is waved at!

JHG waves at cd! cd is waved at!

dlpulver says, "Bye CD"

JFZeigler [to pleissez]: Yes, new government types. Including "free cities" that are sort of like a revival of the Hanseatic League. . .

CraigR says, "Later, CD."

Ralzakark wavesies.

JFZeigler waves.

cd says, "see all-y'all laters"

Kromm says, "Singapore will be cool, for instance."

cd has disconnected.

pleissez waves

Ralzakark [to JamesG]: If you thought fighting the Chtorr was nasty, wait 'til you fight the Mouse.

Kromm [to Ralzakark]: LOL!

JamesG [to Ralzakark]: No kidding :)

dlpulver says, "Watch out for Disney Bioroids"

CraigR nodnods!

JFZeigler [to RichardG]: Anyway, to answer your question: China, the US, the European Union, a Pacific Rim alliance, India, and the Transpacific Socialist Alliance will be the big powers. Lots of second-rank nations and alliances, too.

pleissez says, "For interesting reading on the Disney as power, check out Carl Hiaasen's TEam Rat: How Disney Devour's the World"

pleissez says, "Or something like tha."

Kromm says, "And of course there will be new 'national' entities in space that have broken away from their founding country(ies)"

Carter says, "Will some of the changes in political structure in G:TS change the way people view nationality and patriotism? For example, will immigration be easier/harder? What about self-created nationality (sort of like the micronational communities on the Internet)?"

Ralzakark say, "Disneyworld, -land, EuroDisney, Disney Tokyo, all secret bases hidden in plain sight. Okay, enough of that..."

dlpulver says, "Also, while this is not Cyberpunk, transnational corporations are quite influential, and especially in deep space, some of them are powers unto themselves."

RichardG says, "Six on Earth and two or three in space. Seems like a lot to me"

JFZeigler [to Carter]: Very much like what you mentioned. In the most prosperous nations, you might define yourself in genetic and cultural terms rather than by your nationality.

JHG says, "Wil you be using existing corporate names or are you going to make them up?"

CraigR says, "I always thought nanotech would make for some interesting toys. Imagine the 'Creatures' game with real Norns, that you can play with/cuddle/etc..."

JamesG says, "Generally safer to make them up"

JFZeigler [to RichardG]: We want the whole setting to be very rich and complex. More plot possibilities that way.

pleissez says, "On these new powers - how large are they in terms of population and GDP? Small pop compared to today, with equivalent/greater GDP? Or something stranger?"

JHG [to CraigR]: Real Pokemon?

JamesG screams in terror

CraigR [to JHG]: Good point.

Kromm says, "We have talked about groups who identify by things other than geographical location, too. Delocalized nations without states."

Ralzakark [to JHG]: More fun to kill that way.

pleissez says, "Any chance of the Raft or Sea State in this setting?"

dlpulver says, "We will do a bit of both between existing and real corporations. Generally, we'll mention some real ones for color, but most of the detailled ones will be new."

JHG says, "The third Pokemon revival :)"

JamesG says, "The World League of Pyramideans"

Kromm says, "We'll be sure to have little mouse-things with electric eel genes, sure . . ."

dlpulver says, "Aquarius is a giant floating raft-state in the gulf of mexico"

dlpulver says, "It will probably get its own world book."

RichardG says, "Geopolitical instability lies there. It's very (historically) rare that there have that many Great Powers"

JFZeigler [to pleissez]: The population of Earth is about 10 billion or a little more. Almost all regions are more prosperous than they are today in absolute terms, but the difference between the poorest and wealthiest nations will actually be greater.

Ralzakark starts to sing "The Age of Aquarius" but stops when people look at him funny.

Kira steps out of the elevator.

pleissez says, "Must be pure hell in Hurricaines. Gotta make sure I'm in on that playtest."

RichardG says, "Anyway, I'll write that thought out more intelligibly and put it on sjgames.gurps"

JFZeigler [to RichardG]: Oh, yes. One subtext is that there may be a Big Crisis coming.

Kira steps into the elevator.

pleissez says, "[to JFZeigler]: Makes sense."

dlpulver says, "The hybrid mice-eels will be everyone's companions. THey are medics. They bite with their vampire bat fangs as little IVs, and inject material from their bioreactors."

CraigR [to JHG]: I was just thinking of an estate that some millionaire has, with a hoard of grendels as guard dogs. ;>

RichardG says, "Hmmm. Lots of Great Powers... WWI?"

JHG [to CraigR]: EEeekk

dlpulver says, "Aquarius is designed to maneuver. It can avoid hurricanes."

pleissez says, "This I gotta find out about. Been a sucker for stuff like this ever since Green Days in Brunei."

dlpulver says, "And lots of offworld room to mess about with colonies."

Kromm [to RichardG]: A transhuman WWII with memetic propaganda, MEMs instead of chlorine, and ortillery, sure.

dlpulver says, "Aquarius is described in GURPS Cyberpunk Adventures"

Kromm [to RichardG]: Er, WWI. But it could be a WWII if you prefer.

pleissez says, "Hmm. I remember that vaguely now that you mention it."

JHG says, "Will there be a major power based on the bottom of the ocean?"

dlpulver says, "No, JHG"

RichardG says, "I was thinking that WWI was a lot nastier than anyone expected going in, where WWII wasn't."

Ralzakark [to JHG]: The Netherlands, remember? ;)

JHG baps Ralzakark! Ralzakark has been baptized.

Kromm [to RichardG]: I know. I just typo'd.

pleissez says, "I'll bite - what is on the bottom?"

Kromm [to pleissez]: Tube worms.

dlpulver says, "But their will be a book covering ocean activities: Blue Shadow. A lot of the nanosoc/transpacific war was underwater."

pleissez says, "Looking forward to it."

Kromm says, "And the author of BLUE SHADOW gets to decide what conspiracies are afoot down there in thermal vent-land."

dlpulver says, "Lots of resources there, odd bacteria, nuclear and concrete subs, etc."

dlpulver says, "Cthulhu..."

dlpulver says, "Well, modified octopoids, anyway"

Kromm [to dlpulver]: Squiddy.

dlpulver says, "bioengineered whales"

pleissez says, "So civilian nuke subs are possible?"

JamesG [to pleissez]: Make sure you attend Bob's chat...

Kromm [to pleissez]: Sure.

RichardG says, "Ten Thousand Leagues..."

dlpulver says, "Sure. They have fusion reactors. Aneutronic fusion removes a lot of the stigma"

Ralzakark say, "Hm... civilian subs? Ten Thousand Bowling Leagues perhaps?"

pleissez says, "Scary. Piracy just got stranger. Add in bio-mods with political agendas and it gets stranger still."

Kromm says, "If you're wealthy enough, you can buy long-duration power supplies. No longer will this be a state/military monopoly."

pleissez says, "That's the weirdest and possibly strangest bit here. What monopolies remain to the gov't and military?"

Kromm says, "The setting is somewhat founded on the concept of an economy of availability, not an economy of scarcity. Character wealth will reflect this."

phargle has connected. Women and children first.

RichardG says, "How does that reflect into the structure of society"

pleissez says, "75k to 150k will do that nicely."

dlpulver says, "Pervasively"

Kromm [to pleissez]: Force will still largely be a gov't thing. Corporations will not want to have to keep a standing force if they want to make a profit.

phargle says, "hehe"

dlpulver says, "Which is why their are British and South African warships in the asteroid belt."

dlpulver says, "Who sort of answer dually to Pretoria, London and Hawking INdustries."

RichardG says, "I'd have thought that broad wealth will allow all sorts of political structures that are impractical in an economy of scarcity. The obvious example is anarchism."

JHG says, "What will the advent of MEMs be on the power of the Columbian drugbarons?"

Kromm [to RichardG]: It will. We've said as much.

dlpulver says, "Yes. Many of the more obscure types, however, need living space, and so have built space colonies."

pleissez says, "Good. I always disliked that bit about corp. armies in most CP/futuristic settings."

Kromm [to RichardG]: Although as I have said, I think libertarianism is more likely than anarchism per se.

dlpulver says, "Columbian drug barons have kind of vanished as such. Mostly because improved biotech has led to safe recreational drugs."

Kromm says, "Which partly answers te 'What do people do for fun?' question."

dlpulver says, "The more intelligent ones investited their wealth in good medical programs and emigrated to Mars or something."

RichardG says, "Is that safe and legal drugs or safe and illegal?"

phargle says, "Corporation armies => East Indies Company fast forwarded 400 years."

Kromm [to RichardG]: Safe, legal in most cases.

Ralzakark say, "Safer recreational drugs, oh yes, the future is looking bright."

dlpulver says, "Safe and legal in most places, but obvously some societies have moral qualms and drugs are psychologically addictive, though their are cures."

phargle says, "(not entirely implausible in a solar system game)"

RichardG says, "And if they are legal, what do people do to break the law and have fun (which seems a very strong meme)"

Carter says, "Thinking of moral qualms, what is the state of religion?"

Ralzakark [to RichardG]: Blow stuff up good?

Kromm [to RichardG]: The primary objection to drugs today is really an objection to the health-care and crime problems that come with drugs. If safe drugs are actually *good* for you and available almost for free, then it becomes hard to object to them.

dlpulver says, "The Martian Triads are a major problem. As are the Trojan Mafia."

CraigR repeats a question. "I can't remember from the original chat, but when is TS set?"

dlpulver says, "2100 AD"

pleissez says, "[to RichardG] vandalism? Theft?"

CraigR nods. "Okay. Thanks."

JFZeigler [to Carter]: Religion is still important in society. There will probably be some new religious ideas floating around.

Kromm says, "Remember, the setting assumes people are altering their *genome* permanently. Temporary personality alterations might be yesterday's news and a really minor issue for those who would argue 'Be real!'"

pleissez says, "Trojan Mafia - that conjures images of large belters with broken noses making threats about taking a long walk with a short air supply."

dlpulver says, "Religion continues to exist, bruised and battered by various issues like uploading. Some groups (e.g., Judaism) have no objection to immortality; many christians have some trouble with it. Likewise there are many other religious issues floating about. New religions and new religious "cults" rise and fall. Digital creationism (AIs = angels, among other things) is one of the more amusing if small scale."

Kromm says, "On the other hand, MEMs which go in and do drug-like things almost irreversibly might well be a social problem . . ."

pleissez says, "What is the frequency of substantial genetic alteration in the population? 10%? 50%? "

dlpulver says, "The Trojan Mafia are largely radical libertarians."

Ralzakark [to pleissez]: I was thinking more along the lines of condom bootleggers.

Carter says, "I'd think fundamentalism (of all stripes) would have become either completely marginalized or a violently proactive force..."

JHG says, "Have the Egyptians given permission the excavate the alleged rooms underneath the Sphinx and if so what did it contain?"

dlpulver says, "Depends what you define as substantial. By today's standards, about 20-25% world wide seems likely. In some countries, as much as 80%."

pleissez says, "Well darn. There goes a perfectly good series of jokes. [to Ralzakark] LOL!"

dlpulver says, "JHG, I don't know and don't care that much (:"

JFZeigler [to JHG]: A little green alien with wings :-).

RichardG says, "I guess there are some societies where it is 100% as well"

Kromm [to JHG]: Why excavate? Just send in MEM bugs to look around withough harming things.

JHG says, "It could spawn a new religion!"

Kromm says, "Gah! Without. My typing is rotting. I imagine the Chemical Brothers are not good chat music. (Turns off.)"

pleissez says, "Heck, from the way Kromm, Pulver and Zeigler are talking, religion spawning could be a hobby with people. Or a lucrative consulting gig."

Ralzakark [to Kromm]: Well it's not surprising that your typing is rotting, what with all that messing with undead.

dlpulver says, "Genetic enhancement where traits native to humanity are emphasized, selected for or removed is very common, as much as 50-80%. Gene therapy approaches 90-100% in developed nations, where nasty stuff is selected away. Germline engineering to add non-human traits is much rarer, below 1% seems likely, on Earth, but off world it can approach 50%."

JamesG says, "If you want to get rich..."

Ralzakark say, "Start a religion..."

JHG says, "Is cloning of extinct creatures possible (eq the Tasmanian Tiger)?"

Kromm says, "I would say that simply engineering away cancer suceptibility is going to be close to 100% anywhere people are not dirt-poor."

dlpulver says, "Yes. "

Carter [to pleissez]: "It might be similar to the growth of 'New Religions' in post WWII Japan. Lots of new, small-scale theologies popping up with various degrees of sincerity."

Kromm says, ". . . as an example."

Kromm [to JHG]: It will have to be, given who the publisher is ;-)

JHG says, ":)"

pleissez says, "Blending the religion thread and gengineering - imagines a colony where angels are the dominant phenotype (I know it ain't necessarily so given limtations of bio tech, but fun nonetheless)."

dlpulver says, "Clonig of extinct species in the few cases where good samples are available is indeed done. Probably very old news, but a constant source of news as improved technology allows more and more species to be brought back that were preserved in worse and worse shape."

JFZeigler takes a note. Creative religion consultants. . .

Carter [to Kromm]: "So given who the publisher is, what's up with the Lego Group in 2100?"

pleissez says, "Who do you think is making the modular ships and robots?"

thomasm says, "A Lego space station?"

Kromm [to Carter]: Good question. I wonder if Interlego will still exist in 100 years . . .

dlpulver says, "New Covenant is a digital creationist space colony, I think. They lucked out and found a black hole, which let them sell it and use the money to do wierd things."

Ralzakark [to JFZeigler]: I see your family in a sort of Yawhistically themed motif.

pleissez says, "Alright, how weird is weird?"

JFZeigler smiles.

JamesG [to pleissez]: Pretty weird

dlpulver says, "They like kidnapping AIs to save their souls, among other things."

pleissez says, "Start the violence weird?"

JFZeigler says, "Personally, I think I'm going to write in the Tiplerites. Not by that name, of course."

RichardG says, "Tiplerites?"

RichardG says, "While we're talking about the publisher, is GURPS still going in 2100?"

pleissez says, "BTW what are the possibilities of humor in this setting? Playing it for grins like Dirty Pair? Or acid edged like Transmetroploitan?"

Kromm [to pleissez]: I think humor will be a very serious possibility ;-)

JHG says, "Paranoia!!! They are clones enough :)"

Ralzakark [to JFZeigler]: Rename them the Nipplerites, just my two cents.

dlpulver says, "The Generic Universe Roleplaying Simulator?"

pleissez says, "Given the optimistic tone and the if they can do it humans will themes of G:TS, I thought so."

JFZeigler [to RichardG]: Frank Tipler. Author of "The Physics of Immortality," among other things.

CraigR [to RichardG]: This isn't a book of predictions, it's an RPG setting. Have you ever played someone playing an RPG? ;>

Kromm [to RichardG]: Given the publisher, I imagine that GURPS *won't* be around in 100 years . . . Steve likes things to evolve. On the other hand, we might just have 4th edition by then.

dlpulver says, "Oh, I dunno, we'll be mildly serious, I guess. BUt then again, I thought I was being mildly serious when I introduced the Penguins."

pleissez says, "Gotta go and be productive folks, later."

pleissez has disconnected.

JHG says, "Are there plans for generation ships?"

RichardG says, "Yes I have played someone playing an RPG. Dream Park."

Carter says, "I have to run, too. Thanks for the info, guys.""

Ralzakark say, "Generic Universe Roleplaying Game and Lifestyle Enhancer (GURGLE.)"

Carter wandered into some black ICE *zap*

JFZeigler winces.

dlpulver says, "No, there are no plans for generation ships."

Ralzakark say, "4th ed by 2100? Nah."

Anthony says, "I think I'd rather send Life Seeds than generation ships."

dlpulver says, "They have efficient biostasis tech"

JamesG says, "DL into a ship with a fusion drive and go cruising"

dlpulver says, "There are easier ways: AIs, uploaded cybershells, etc."

RichardG says, "How much exploration is there outside the Solar System?"

JFZeigler says, "In the back of our minds we're thinking about a sequel set a few decades later, with transhumans expoloring the nearby stars. The basic books have to sell well first, though."

Kromm says, "Most likely if there are Oort could-surveying missions, they will involve uploads, AIs, etc."

dlpulver says, "Very little. But the solar system extends out rather far. Probes well into the oort cloud, and they have very good astronomy that is looking all over the galaxy."

JFZeigler . o O ( Hint, hint. )

Kromm says, "Oort *cloud.*"

RichardG says, "Hell, you've got me sold, but I buy anything with GURPS on the front cover, so it's other people you need to sell to."

CraigR metoos that point :)

Ralzakark shows RichardG GURPS Brooklyn Bridge.

Kromm says, "There has been a lot of interest in this series from writers. That is usually a sign that the idea is healthy, as most freelance writers don"

Kromm says, ". . . don't want to peg their royalty income to a loser."

JHG [to Ralzakark]: How much you want for that ;)

JamesG says, "It seems a promising series"

dlpulver says, "We may get some crossover from writers who have not previously done SJG books."

phargle has disconnected. But then again, we knew that...

phargle has connected. Women and children first.

Ralzakark say, "There are writers that *haven't* done GURPS books? Who are they? ;)"

RichardG says, "Mind you, this is the sort of thing that is the reason I buy anything with GURPS on the cover"

JFZeigler says, "The hardest sell may be to people who know about transhumanism and don't like it as a philosophy."

Kromm [to Ralzakark]: Lots of people :) I am in touch with two writers who have never done GURPS but who are interested in TS.

JamesG says, "I'd be interested if I had a little more time :)"

CraigR says, "I'd be interested if I had a little more talent. ;>"

dlpulver says, "Plenty of opportunity to play normal (mostly) humans trying to stop the singularity..."

Kromm [to JFZeigler]: True. However, I am not sure that is large enough percentage of the market to burn resources on. Blowing 50% of the ad budget to appeal to the 10% of the market who don't like the book is probably not as useful as putting those funds toward ensuring most of the 90% who like the idea to go buy it.

phargle says, "I'd be interested if I had a little more brain."

Kromm . o O ( Brain. )

dlpulver says, "embrace transhumanism. Grow your brain!"

phargle says, "Braiinnnnsss...."

dlpulver says, "you just need a higher clock speed"

Ralzakark suddenly remembers an Intel commercial with Homer Simpson getting his brain replaced.

JHG says, "Will there novelazations of this setting to support the setting in the mass market?"

phargle says, "If I overclock my brain, it'll start overheating."

RichardG says, "How close is the singularity in TS?"

Kromm says, "Expand Your Head."

dlpulver says, "The singularity receeds as one gets closer. "

Ralzakark sings, "Just remember, what the doormouse said, 'Feed your head...'

dlpulver says, "Actually, the setting is partly an adaption of an existing novel, but leave that..."

JFZeigler [to Kromm]: I suspect if we use a realistic and diverse treatment that'll be enough to sell most folks. Neither utopia nor dystopia, that's my motto. . .

Kromm [to RichardG]: We're assuming that as more is discovered and developed, more things will demand the newly unconvered resources. This will damp out singularity.

phargle says, "nor datopoia."

MikeLee . o O ( datopia? )

Kromm says, "And if I can get out one sentence without a typo today, I will be happy. Dammit."

JFZeigler says, "Now, that would be utopia :-)."

Kromm wonders why *his* brain is rotten today.

phargle says, "You have undeads on the brain, K."

JHG says, "Gentlemen, I will have to go to bed right now: Thank you for the chat at this perfect time of day (for me) "

Ralzakark say, "Bring in da noise, bring in datopia?"

Ralzakark waves at JHG! JHG is allowed by the lion to return the wave to Ralzakark.

JFZeigler waves.

dlpulver says, "You are welcome. We did this chat partly to appeal to people, especially non-North American, who could not make the previous one."

JHG says, "It is appreaciated :)"

Kromm thinks it is more likely because it has been a busy month and he is currently trying to tie up several projects while planning on a short trip . . .

phargle says, "Heh."

RichardG says, "First chat I've been able to make, and greatly apprciated."

dlpulver says, "Thanks for coming!"

The lion decides that enough is enough and loses interest in his silly construct, letting the form of JHG dissolve in Happiness and Joy for all mankind (M/F).

JFZeigler . o O ( Now all we have to do is get up at 4 AM to get the Australians... )

phargle says, "Hey, dlpulver, you need to make a crappy book so you can restore my lack of faith in the world. =)"

Kromm waves to those departing.

JamesG [to dlpulver]: It's appreciated

Ralzakark say, "MadDan was going to try to be here, but alas..."

RichardG says, "I think I'm catching typos from Kromm"

Kromm [to phargle]: We'll get him to write GURPS LICHEN.

phargle says, "I'd play fungus if dlpulver wrote it."

Ralzakark say, "I don't know, I'd think it would grow on me."

phargle says, "What do you do? I spread. Ok, roll to decompose."

dlpulver says, "You can try Complete Druid from TSR. It has fungi druids in it."

MikeLee says, "It might mushroom into a whole new genre..."

phargle chokes on puns.

MikeLee will stop. ;)

JamesG says, "They are a little spore"

MikeLee . o O ( where's Bob when ya need him..:) )

Ralzakark [to MikeLee]: Must you?

Ralzakark . o O ( Get it... *must* )

Kromm says, "Anyhow . . . are there any further questions that require Kromm? If not, he is going to vanish, off to work on the projects which are distracting him from typing properly here."

phargle says, "Great alliteration."

phargle says, "Questions that require Kromm. "

phargle says, "I can't even say that five times fast."

RichardG says, "What technologies are you not including, but which you think might/will happen"

CraigR says, "Great chat, guys. :)"

Kromm [to RichardG]: If we think it might/will happen, we will include it. That is basically the criterion for technology in this series.

dlpulver says, "Room temperature superconductors *might* happen by then, and we're not including them. That' about it."

BobP has connected.

CraigR [to MikeLee]: Well, you asked... ;>

Ralzakark say, "And here he is now."

MikeLee . o O ( the world will end! )

RichardG says, "So there's no paths not taken?"

MikeLee grins

JamesG says, "Hi Bob"

MikeLee waves

BobP tiptoes quietly to the back, remembering only too late today's scheduled chat . . .

CraigR says, "Hey, Bob. :)"

Kromm [to RichardG]: Unless you think room-temperature SCs are possible, which I do not, or unless you embrace full-out Drexlerian MBT, which I regard as a pipe dream.

safisher has connected.

Kromm [to RichardG]: But our main inspirations have been futurists, DARPA white papers, science magazines, conversations with friends in applied science, etc.

safisher says, "Hi"

dlpulver says, "We regularly surf DARPA and amuse ourselves giggling at what American tax payers are funding."

Kromm [to RichardG]: So if it is being discussed *right now* as a serious possibility, expect to see it.

CraigR poits.

safisher says, ""Battlesuits and lasers?""

Kromm . o O ( Battlesuits, drones with collective intelligence, chameleon armor, tanks with electrothermal rotary cannon . . . )

safisher says, "Yes"

JFZeigler says, "One of the neat things about this setting is that you can get a wild and wierd world even with conservative technical assumptions."

Kromm . o O ( Guns that fire projectiles around corners, laser point defense . . . )

safisher says, "I know I'm coming in late, but how far in the future are we talking?"

JFZeigler [to safisher]: Circa 2100.

safisher says, "How many planets are settled? Any?"

RichardG says, "And the big deus ex machina is the black holes in the asteroid belt, yes?"

dlpulver says, "Earth, Mars, bits of Mercury"

safisher says, "I'm assuming no FTL"

dlpulver says, "No FTL"

safisher says, "The moon?"

safisher says, "Lagrange?"

Kromm [to RichardG]: I would not say that is 'big.' It plays a role, but solar-powered antimatter factories around Mercury which enable space flight and fusion are really more relevant.

JamesG [to dlpulver]: The dark bits of Mercury I assume :)

phargle says, "How fast is communication?"

dlpulver says, "Lots of asteroids. Moons: Luna, the Martian ones, Titan, Callisto, Europa, Miranda, Oberon..."

dlpulver says, "Light speed"

Kromm [to phargle]: Light.

dlpulver says, "L4/L5"

safisher says, "mmm nice"

dlpulver says, "It takes several months to cross the solar system, though"

phargle says, "Wow, communication is fast. Slower than earthly, but fast enough to coordinate all kinds of fu."

safisher says, "So what's the first book gonna cover?"

BobP [to dlpulver]: I'm assuming you mean the Earth/Moon L4/L5 :-)

dlpulver says, "Well, also Jupiter's"

BobP noddles.

Kromm says, "There will be no violations of SR or GR, or the laws of thermodynamics. Nothing will move faster than light, exist at absolute zero, etc. And we will not adopt wigged-out theories like warp drives and zero-point energy reactors."

dlpulver says, "Well, sort of."

dlpulver says, "Trojan points, anyway"

phargle says, "Wigged-out. Bald."

dlpulver says, "No antigravity"

RichardG says, "Earth/Sun Lagrange?"

dlpulver says, "If there's good resourcse"

safisher says, "So what will spaceships be like. AM rockets? Any piracy?"

Kromm says, "There will be no aliens, psionics, magic, or other totally unfounded elements."

phargle says, "No unfounded elements? Man."

dlpulver says, "Lots of pirates. The Helium pirates of Miranda (intercept HE3 convoys from Uranus). The Trojan Mafia."

dlpulver says, "SHips use fusion and antimatter drives."

dlpulver says, "A few massdrivers and light sails around for cargoes that don't need to go fast."

RichardG says, "Surface to orbit stuff?"

dlpulver says, "Fair bit of space combat. "

dlpulver says, "Sure."

Anthony [to Kromm]: oh, you got rid of the black holes? ;)

JFZeigler smiles.

Kromm [to Anthony]: Heh?

safisher says, "Will we see fully matured cybernetic enhancements, or do you condsider that too unfounded?"

Anthony [to Kromm]: speaking of unfounded ;)

dlpulver says, "People generally prefer to deal with robots then turn themselves into them, but the technology full cyberbodies is there, although it is often more costeffective to download a partial copy into a cybershell."

Kromm [to Anthony]: After reading literature, I am still not convinced there are any problems with black holes in asteroids. It appears to be widely accepted as a possibility by the kinds of futurists who reject aliens and psychic powers . . .

RichardG says, "What sort of drives for surface to orbit, given the *ahem* messy nature of AM?"

Kromm [to Anthony]: Which is good enough for me.

Anthony [to Kromm]: there's an upper limit on number of black holes which could be out there based on estimates of how much radiation they should be leaking.

dlpulver says, "Probably the usual stuff: scram-jets, pulsed rockets, etc. They have at least some orbital elevator tech (at least on Mars)."

Anthony [to Kromm]: and that limit's pretty low

JamesG says, "There's theory to support primordial blackholes... finding them is the problem"

safisher says, "So we are talking VERY hard science rules, or somewhat hard?"

dlpulver says, "Reasonably hard in most respects."

JFZeigler [to RichardG]: Laser thermal rockets, too.

dlpulver says, "Oh, right: laser thermal for boosting"

safisher says, "Are you going to do another modular system from VE, or just add ons and tech templates?"

RichardG says, "What's wrong with aliens? Sure, they're a long way away and with no FTL, we aren't getting there any time soon, but..."

dlpulver says, "There are robot and spaceship design modular systems."

Anthony says, "heh."

dlpulver says, "For aliens, we do not want to tie our hands for later sourcebooks."

Anthony says, "having detected alien civilizations is probably not intrinsically bad"

safisher says, "Any solid picture of the military in 2100?"

pleissez has connected.

JamesG [to Anthony]: Not very likely...

dlpulver says, "Yes, we have a fairly good idea of them."

JFZeigler [to RichardG]: Part of the flavor is showing how diverse human society can get on its own, given genetic and other modification.

Kromm [to RichardG]: We're going on the basic assumption that light travels faster than ships, so if there were aliens, we would have detected signals from them by now. And we haven't.

dlpulver says, "Different military forces of course. "

RichardG says, "Fine, I can cope with that, it was just comparing them to psi/magic that pushed a button or two"

JamesG says, "...they'll be rare and hard to spot"

dlpulver says, "So either the aliens are hiding, are low tech, or are beyond about 100 LY."

JamesG says, "As an Astrobiologist I find between 100 and 1000 LY plausible"

phargle has disconnected. But then again, we knew that...

JFZeigler says, "Or aren't bothering to signal in a way we can detect. Or there's something out there that eats civilizations. Any of the Fermi Paradox solutions are possible."

safisher says, "IS there a UN-equivalent, or total balkanization at this point? Megacorp armies?"

dlpulver says, "I should emphasize that the black hole discoveries are very recent in the setting, relatively small scale, and have not had a huge impact on technology as yet. As such, you can completely remove them by backdating 10 years or so if you prefer something 100% hard."

safisher says, "Oh yeah, when is the release date?"

MikeLee says, "You might have mentioned this, are there going to be "race" books describing different human mods?"

Kromm shrugs. "For lots of people, the ontological implications of intelligent life apart from humanity are more troubling than the philosophical problems introduced by admitting to the existence of supernatural powers . . . modern psychologists tend to think that the human fascination with aliens is just a Space Age translocation of the former obsession with demons, vampires, etc.

JFZeigler [to safisher]: No corporate armies in the usual cyberpunk sense. There are still nation-states, and there are a few international institutions that help mediate between them.

dlpulver says, "My contract says a first draft by the end of August. This suggests late fall or early winter."

Rob is here. Where's Higgs?

RichardG says, "to MikeLee "SplatBooks?""

safisher says, "So playtest in Spet to OCt?"

Kromm [to dlpulver]: That would be accurate.

Rob says, "How much of the TS chat did I miss? All?"

MikeLee isn't quite familiar with that...

safisher says, "Sept to Oct. I mean"

dlpulver says, "We've been at it for 2 hrs, 25 min"

Kromm says, "I would say that a December release is most realistic."

Kromm says, "Perhaps even January."

Kromm says, "We'll have to see."

dlpulver says, "Could be. We'll want to do art and detailed playtest, after all."

RichardG says, "Christmas presents. A nice target to aim at, anyway."

safisher says, "What's the _intended_ scope of the book series? 3-5, or more?"

BobP double-takes at Mr Pulver, then remembers his timezone difference. Yikes! This chatlog will soon rival Godzilla for size and sheer menacing power.

Kromm [to safisher]: 5-7 books, with room for much growth.

safisher says, "How many are going right now?"

MikeLee [to RichardG]: ah :) I see..(I think....)

dlpulver says, "Let's see. Book in by Sept 1, 2 weeks to process, a month to playtest, a month to rewrite, and another two or three months for production... maybe January. "

Rob says, "In other words, the line could rival GURPS Traveller in size, if it's popular enough."

Anthony says, "hm...depending on your assumptions, plausible distance to nearest technolical civilization are from 1,000 lightyears on up"

JamesG says, "I like that idea"

Anthony says, "you can certainly argue that we might be currently alone in the galaxy."

JamesG [to Anthony]: Read Rare Earth?

Anthony [to JamesG]: no, but aware of it

Kromm [to safisher]: We have David under contract now. Jon will be getting us a proposal this month and will be under contract by mid-summer. Three other professional freelance writers are interested in getting on board at this time.

RichardG says, "I gather from that you can't name names."

Anthony says, "I doubt we'd have failed to notice an extensive radio-using civilization within 1,000 lightyaers by 2100"

JamesG [to Anthony]: It's excellent in the field, I recommend it

Kromm [to safisher]: And that is as much intelligence as I can give away right now -- sorry if you need more details.

dlpulver says, "I also hope to do a second book in the series, and maybe parts of others."

safisher says, "So we should see a quick succession of releases, I suppose."

pleissez says, "Eh. I'll wait for your quarterly chats or so."

Kromm [to safisher]: That is the plan. We hope to release these in three-book waves.

safisher says, "How much bio-tech will we see?"

RichardG says, "Hope you'll playtest a bit more carefully than the first few Traveller books."

CraigR [to safisher]: Lots. :)

dlpulver says, "Very little biotech, safisher. We don't think it is plausible."

JFZeigler says, "Folks, my son is up from his nap and my wife is making dinner noises. Any final questions before I bail?"

Kromm [to safisher]: It is essentially a BIO-TECH setting, so let that be your guide . . .

CraigR grins.

dlpulver says, "Seriously, this is basically the worldbook version of GURPS Bio-Tech..."

Kromm [to RichardG]: We will do our very best.

Ralzakark [to JFZeigler]: Thanks for coming.

safisher says, " Mmm, good. Are talking half-man half dolphin, or what?"

CraigR [to JFZeigler]: What's for dinner? :>

dlpulver says, "Thank you for coming JFZ! Hope to see you again"

Kromm [to JFZeigler]: Thank you for your time, Jon!

MikeLee [to JFZeigler]: thank you very much for coming!

CraigR [to JFZeigler]: Thanks for coming. Good chat!

dlpulver says, "Mutant bio-whales, humans adapted for zero-gee and the deep oceans or Europa, etc."

RichardG says, "Thanks for coming Jon."

dlpulver says, "Furries"

pleissez says, "Its been interesting. Good luck"

Ralzakark say, "Huh-huh, he said furries."

JFZeigler says, "You bet. Thanks for having me on board, folks. Talk to you later, David & Kromm..."

dlpulver says, "Bye bye Jon!"

Kromm waves at JFZeigler! JFZeigler is waved at!

JamesG waves

The Scout yawns, nods politely to all, and wanders off.

safisher says, "Ah, I see, I liked the Bio-Tech world. That makes me happy. Especially the baby factories . . . <shudder>"

CraigR . o O ( He never did tell me what's for dinner... )

Kromm says, "I think it is almost time to wind this chat down and close the log ;-) 2 1/2 hours is fairly massive as is . . ."

dlpulver says, "Okay. Any last minute questions before we vanish into the singularity?"

Kromm says, "Any outstanding questions before we go informal?"

RichardG says, "not from me"

safisher says, "Glad I good slip in. Kind of missed the announcement before today."

pleissez says, "I'm satisfied. Now how long before the rev posts the logs?"

CraigR says, "Great chat, guys. Thanks for the info. :)"

Kromm says, "And thanks for putting up with all my typos. I have been multitasking the whole time, to no good effect on my typing skills here! :P"

Ralzakark say, "Thanks much guys!"

dlpulver says, "Okay. Bye bye all. Live fast and evolve!"

Rob says, "I'm gonna have to go and look at the log."

Ralzakark waves.

safisher says, "Thanks guys, and good luck"

JamesG says, "It's been fun..."

Rob grouses at timing has nap poorly.

CraigR waves at Kromm! Kromm waves back!

RichardG says, "G'night all."

Kromm says, "ReMEMEber to come to the next one."

RichardG has disconnected.

JamesG says, "...and it's still before midnight :)"

MikeLee grins and waves

CraigR waves at dlpulver! dlpulver is waved at!

dlpulver has disconnected.

Kromm waves to all.

safisher has disconnected.

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